High-School Senior Controversial WSJ Article

[gkautz10]

This girl has a lot to learn about life. Perhaps she will learn it in community college with the rest of the kids who didn't apply themselves in high school but believe they want a degree. She comes off as bitter, far more so than most high school seniors have enough time to become.

Some people are motivated in different ways. For some, this type of rejection would have driven them to work their butts off, while others resort to pointing out the flaws of higher education as she did.

We need more people like this that are willing to not be afraid of not being politically incorrect.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

While I'm unaware of any special admission accomodations that are made on the basis of a students' sexuality and believe that is just another in a long line excuses the author of the article lays out, lets look at sexual orientation fairness in this country. Just last week, in 2013, there were two supreme court cases that may well determine if homosexual citizens are viewed as equal under the law when it comes to marriage. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964.

As to your "quotas" comment. White students by and large attend better funded, safer schools with better paid teachers. They have extremely important advantages that most African Americans do not have. Those advantages often, not always but often, lead to better performance in high school, which several in this thread are suggesting should be the only criteria for getting into college. How is that fair? The reason college admissions reach out to minority groups is because of this nation's horrendous record of fairness to the very groups that you point to in your post. And there is still a long way to go before there is anything close to a level playing field. If we don't reach out to minority groups, there would be an even more profound ratio of whites with higher education than blacks than exists today. You should make an attempt to understand the history behind the laws before making these types of statements. You are in the generation that is coming of age, and could be the one that finally brings racial fairness to this country. Don't let the language you hear on this topic from previous generations cloud your own judgment. Those generations ALL got it wrong.

You can post like it's still 1952, but I'll give you a little snapshot of what many colleges have been doing for a few decades. I got my BA in 2008 and M.Ed in 2011:

These schools' quotas (international students, blacks, hispanics, 3 legged circus clowns, whatever) exist to attract minorities to make their school profiles look "diverse" and hopefully get great reviews from US News and World Report. The attempt is noble, but when put into practice it does the exact opposite of its intent and it happens almost every day in Admissions conference rooms. Colleges regulary reject students who on paper fit every academic requirement but accept "quota" students who do not as long as they fit a "profile" and a certain number is achieved.

Note 1: Before you go calling me a racist, I knew some underachieving white kids who shouldn't have been in college, and some minorities who were really bright and did well for themselves, and visa versa.

Note 2: College acceptance rates/ quotas are one thing. If people really wanna chew on a piece of bacon, look at the percentage of students (in any group) who don't drop out, transfer, and finish at that school in four years.

Progressivism: ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

 

[BurningRiver]

I see what your saying, and it's my understanding your going to ND next year?, just wait until you get on campus. The lack of diversity here is borderline atrocious, and I can't even imagine what it'd be like without the administration pushing for diverse students even if they are less qualified. I hated the idea of affirmative action coming of high school, but now that I'm at ND I can see why we do it at least. And I know how much affirmative action sucks, it's almost impossible to get into the top ivys as a white male, but if you have good grades and scores you'll be able to easily get into some good school.

I understand, but from my position affirmative action is simply unfair. Of course I know the cliche "life isn't fair," but college admissions should be. There shouldn't even be a place on the common application for applicants to select a race, IMO. If an admissions counselor is paying more attention to that section than to the test scores, he's doing everyone a disservice.

I agree with you that diversity is good, and I've been on Notre Dame's campus enough times to know that next year I won't exactly be in a sea of diversity, but IMO college admissions counselors should just let diversity happen on its own, and if it doesn't happen, too bad. If a majority of accepted applicants are white, who cares as long as they're deserving of their spots. You can't, or at least you shouldn't, force diversity.

 

[Bubba]

Some people are motivated in different ways. For some, this type of rejection would have driven them to work their butts off, while others resort to pointing out the flaws of higher education as she did.

We need more people like this that are willing to not be afraid of not being politically incorrect.

I disagree. We need more people who are willing to work their butts off. I do wish we could get over this "PC" bullsh!t. Can't stand it. But I'm not going to blame my failures on it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Disappointment sucks in general, but it really sucks when your whole life you are told everyone is equal.....

 

[Ndaccountant]

I understand, but from my position affirmative action is simply unfair. Of course I know the cliche "life isn't fair," but college admissions should be. There shouldn't even be a place on the common application for applicants to select a race, IMO. If an admissions counselor is paying more attention to that section than to the test scores, he's doing everyone a disservice.

I agree with you that diversity is good, and I've been on Notre Dame's campus enough times to know that next year I won't exactly be in a sea of diversity, but IMO college admissions counselors should just let diversity happen on its own, and if it doesn't happen, too bad. If a majority of accepted applicants are white, who cares as long as they're deserving of their spots. You can't, or at least you shouldn't, force diversity.

One point in time AA was needed. That point has gone bye bye.

 

[BeauBenken]

I just applied for a transfer yesterday.

Trying to provide a college with a resume is honestly one of the more nerve racking things I have experienced. I have no idea what they want from me. And I can also tell you, that putting things in a list format does not showcase the work and effort and passion I put into what I do.

I can hardly remember what awards and achievements I obtained in high school. And I know I cannot list the same amount that others can, but I do believe I'm more than ready for the challenges that await me. And if they really took the time to look past the titles and awards and (honestly) bullshit that others put on their resumes they would see that.

End rant. Apologies.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I just applied for a transfer yesterday.

Trying to provide a college with a resume is honestly one of the more nerve racking things I have experienced. I have no idea what they want from me. And I can also tell you, that putting things in a list format does not showcase the work and effort and passion I put into what I do.

I can hardly remember what awards and achievements I obtained in high school. And I know I cannot list the same amount that others can, but I do believe I'm more than ready for the challenges that await me. And if they really took the time to look past the titles and awards and (honestly) bullshit that others put on their resumes they would see that.

End rant. Apologies.

Two things.

1. Good luck.

2. Job hunting is just as fun.

 

[BeauBenken]

Two things.

1. Good luck.

2. Job hunting is just as fun.

1. I appreciate it.
2. I'm much better at interview scenarios. (And my coaching resume is probably already better than my school resume.)

 

[Bubba]

I wonder how George O'Leary feels about resumes?

 

[IrishinSyria]

That is exactly her point.

It's part of her point, but not the whole thing. She also blames her parents for having given up on raising children, admissions counselors who told her to be herself as well as people who got better SATs than her. It's really quite pathetic.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

There's a reason why admissions folks want a person who visited Africa more than someone who bagged groceries -- they want rich kids. Rich kids pay more tuition, their parents give more, and they're more likely to give (and be rich themselves) later on in life. Colleges have costs too, and it sounds like she's earned a good lesson early on. Heck, these days the only people who can really complain about college admission are the poor whites.

 

[Patulski]

Disappointment sucks in general, but it really sucks when your whole life you are told everyone is equal.....

Who with any sense in their brain tells anybody that?

She basically said, "I bet if I'd had great SAT scores, they would have accepted me".

You bet your a$$ they would.

 

[IrishinSyria]

There's a reason why admissions folks want a person who visited Africa more than someone who bagged groceries -- they want rich kids. Rich kids pay more tuition, their parents give more, and they're more likely to give (and be rich themselves) later on in life. Colleges have costs too, and it sounds like she's earned a good lesson early on. Heck, these days the only people who can really complain about college admission are the poor whites.

Poor whites do get a bad deal and rich minorities arguably get the best deal when it comes to admissions. However, there are always ways to distinguish yourself that don't involve being rich. Again, if her scores are good enough to get into a school, the military would be a great choice. With combat arms opening up to females, she could distinguish herself by becoming America's first infantrywoman, serve her country, and walk away with the GI bill to help pay for the tuition to the awesome school that would then accept her. Or, she can use family connections to put her sob story in the WSJ (and for everybody commenting on her writing, think her editor-sister might have had something to do with that?)

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

There's a reason why admissions folks want a person who visited Africa more than someone who bagged groceries -- they want rich kids. Rich kids pay more tuition, their parents give more, and they're more likely to give (and be rich themselves) later on in life. Colleges have costs too, and it sounds like she's earned a good lesson early on. Heck, these days the only people who can really complain about college admission are the poor whites.

Strong point. Same goes for college tuition. The lower class students receive all the financial aid/ grants in the world, the upper class has the coin to pay, and the middle class takes it up the rear, even at state schools.

 

[autry_denson]

Great article! It seems that those of us that are in college or have been in college in recent years agree with this article, atleast I do. It's not that she is necessarily saying she in entitled to anything, she is saying that kids makes $hit up to put on their resume. It's great to say that you volunteered in a reading program, but if you only did it 1 time, that doesnt count! Having gone through admissions stuff 4 years ago and now a job search (that has been successful and I have a full time job in South Bend 2 months before graduation) she is exactly right. If you think she is entitled, go and apply to the school of your dreams with good scores, but you didn't start some bullshit organization and see who gets in, you or the other person who did.
Oh and GPA's are a poor indicator of success or knowledge, they mean you can memorize and spit out info onto a sheet of paper. One of my professors who is a tax attorney and a CPA says that students with lower GPA's were almost always more successful and ambitious than those with 4.0, in his 35 years of professional experience.

You are assuming one of two things: 1) being white does not provide major advantages to youth throughout childhood (higher quality schools and teachers, environments with relatively few toxins or stressors that impede cognitive development, freedom from consistent discrimination, high-quality community programs); or 2) that advantages associated with being white or disadvantages associated with being nonwhite in America should not matter in college admissions - i.e. they should be discounted in the admissions process.

From your perspective, it's not fair that some with lower scores on standardized tests are admitted. From another perspective, it's not fair that nonwhite kids have been exposed to inferior learning environments and residential environments throughout their lives. It's not fair that a white kid who smokes or even deals pot has an extremely low probability of getting in trouble with the law, while a black kid who does the same has a high probability of being in prison by the time he reaches college.

Any system that attempts to compensate for these types of structural inequalities by attempting to alter the calculus of who is worthy in a formulaic way is going to have flaws, serious inefficiencies, and unintended consequences. Our system of college admissions is no exception - it leads to some kids who are nonwhite yet come from privileged backgrounds being admitted while much more talented and driven kids who don't have a good guidance counselor being left behind. It leads to kids being admitted to schools that offer little support and being unprepared for college life. It leads to animosity among whites who deny or don't understand their own advantage or deny other groups' disadvantages and don't understand why race should be on college applications at all. But to say it's unfair reflects a very narrow-minded view of fairness, in my opinion.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...being white...provide major advantages to youth throughout childhood (higher quality schools and teachers, environments with relatively few toxins or stressors that impede cognitive development, freedom from consistent discrimination, high-quality community programs)...

You're confusing race with wealth.

 

[autry_denson]

You're confusing race with wealth.

no i'm not. black americans who make more than $75,000 in income per year live in neighborhoods with higher poverty than whites making less than $30,000 per year. wealth is important in America, race is important in America - they are independent.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You are assuming one of two things: 1) being white does not provide major advantages to youth throughout childhood (higher quality schools and teachers, environments with relatively few toxins or stressors that impede cognitive development, freedom from consistent discrimination, high-quality community programs); or 2) that advantages associated with being white or disadvantages associated with being nonwhite in America should not matter in college admissions - i.e. they should be discounted in the admissions process.

From your perspective, it's not fair that some with lower scores on standardized tests are admitted. From another perspective, it's not fair that nonwhite kids have been exposed to inferior learning environments and residential environments throughout their lives. It's not fair that a white kid who smokes or even deals pot has an extremely low probability of getting in trouble with the law, while a black kid who does the same has a high probability of being in prison by the time he reaches college.

Any system that attempts to compensate for these types of structural inequalities by attempting to alter the calculus of who is worthy in a formulaic way is going to have flaws, serious inefficiencies, and unintended consequences. Our system of college admissions is no exception - it leads to some kids who are nonwhite yet come from privileged backgrounds being admitted while much more talented and driven kids who don't have a good guidance counselor being left behind. It leads to kids being admitted to schools that offer little support and being unprepared for college life. It leads to animosity among whites who deny or don't understand their own advantage or deny other groups' disadvantages and don't understand why race should be on college applications at all. But to say it's unfair reflects a very narrow-minded view of fairness, in my opinion.

1) where is this discrimination coming from and who is the perpetrator?

2) aren't high quality "community programs" designed for the poor and disadvantaged?

3) cognitive development: if a child gets to first grade and hasn't read before that, who is to blame?

 

[MNIrishman]

black americans who make more than $75,000 in income per year live in neighborhoods with higher poverty than whites making less than $30,000 per year.

Pretty sure this isn't true...The black doctor's son from my high school who was the only one admitted to HYPS lived in a pretty swanky neighborhood...

Perhaps provide sources and give yourself some wiggle room by not speaking in absolutes? Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

no i'm not. black americans who make more than $75,000 in income per year live in neighborhoods with higher poverty than whites making less than $30,000 per year. wealth is important in America, race is important in America - they are independent.

Putting aside whether this supports your claim re: college admission preferences, I'm a bit skeptical as to this sweeping generalization.

 

[irish1958]

One of my professors who is a tax attorney and a CPA says that students with lower GPA's were almost always more successful and ambitious than those with 4.0, in his 35 years of professional experience.

I can't speak for for law and accounting. Perhaps in those professions the less you know and understand, the better you do.
This is not true in medicine and in science. In my experience (an antidote and experience are not data) the opposite is true.
Of course, the real question is how does one determine (post graduate) success?

 

[GoIrish41]

You can post like it's still 1952, but I'll give you a little snapshot of what many colleges have been doing for a few decades. I got my BA in 2008 and M.Ed in 2011:

These schools' quotas (international students, blacks, hispanics, 3 legged circus clowns, whatever) exist to attract minorities to make their school profiles look "diverse" and hopefully get great reviews from US News and World Report. The attempt is noble, but when put into practice it does the exact opposite of its intent and it happens almost every day in Admissions conference rooms. Colleges regulary reject students who on paper fit every academic requirement but accept "quota" students who do not as long as they fit a "profile" and a certain number is achieved.

Note 1: Before you go calling me a racist, I knew some underachieving white kids who shouldn't have been in college, and some minorities who were really bright and did well for themselves, and visa versa.

Note 2: College acceptance rates/ quotas are one thing. If people really wanna chew on a piece of bacon, look at the percentage of students (in any group) who don't drop out, transfer, and finish at that school in four years.

Progressivism: ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

What happened to your "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" because "life isn't fair" talk from the politics thread. Is that only true when it comes to disadvantaged people? God forbid some white kid didn't get into an Ivy League school. Perhaps they just need to work harder. It cuts both ways my friend.

 

[GoIrish41]

1) where is this discrimination coming from and who is the perpetrator?

2) aren't high quality "community programs" designed for the poor and disadvantaged?

3) cognitive development: if a child gets to first grade and hasn't read before that, who is to blame?

one thing is sure. It isn't the child's fault.

 

[autry_denson]

Pretty sure this isn't true...The black doctor's son from my high school who was the only one admitted to HYPS lived in a pretty swanky neighborhood...

Perhaps provide sources and give yourself some wiggle room by not speaking in absolutes? Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

sh!t if your black doctor's son lived in a decent n'hood my argument must be wrong. no wiggle room needed, see below...

(edit: the best part is that you're 'pretty sure this isn't true' based on one single person that you know).

Putting aside whether this supports your claim re: college admission preferences, I'm a bit skeptical as to this sweeping generalization.

From a recent national analysis of the average neighborhoods (census tracts of all racial and ethnic groups):
US2010
http://www.s4.brown.edu/us2010/Data/Report/report0727.pdf

from page 5, based on data from the latter half of the 2000s:
"For example, consider only affluent households whose incomes were above $75,000 in each year (adjusted for inflation). Table 2 shows that the average affluent white household lived in a neighborhood where the poverty share was under 10 percent in every year. But poor white households (incomes below $40,000) lived in neighborhoods with only slightly greater poverty shares, about 12 percent or 13 percent. In contrast, affluent blacks lived in neighborhoods that were 14-15 percent poor, and affluent Hispanics in neighborhoods that were about 13 percent poor. On average around the country, in this whole period of nearly two decades, affluent blacks and Hispanics lived in neighborhoods with fewer resources than did poor whites."

I was off on the income levels used to measure 'low-income' by $10,000. Pretty remarkable, huh? Makes you wonder what else you're getting wrong when you deny that race is important in America.

 

[irishpat183]

This girl has a lot to learn about life. Perhaps she will learn it in community college with the rest of the kids who didn't apply themselves in high school but believe they want a degree. She comes off as bitter, far more so than most high school seniors have enough time to become.

Not very "progressive" of you, GoIrish???? I thought everyone needs to go to college? LOL



Liked the piece. Yeah, she's whiny...but mentions some great points about the bullshit that is "diversity" and that somehow, personal struggle makes you a better college canidate.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...average affluent white household lived in a neighborhood where the poverty share was under 10 percent in every year. But poor white households (incomes below $40,000) lived in neighborhoods with only slightly greater poverty shares, about 12 percent or 13 percent. In contrast, affluent blacks lived in neighborhoods that were 14-15 percent poor, and affluent Hispanics in neighborhoods that were about 13 percent poor...

Putting aside a report pre-designed to confirm its own biases, this is much different than what you originally wrote.

 

[autry_denson]

1) where is this discrimination coming from and who is the perpetrator?

2) aren't high quality "community programs" designed for the poor and disadvantaged?

3) cognitive development: if a child gets to first grade and hasn't read before that, who is to blame?

1) really? go read the experimental literature on discrimination in the labor market, housing market, lending market, etc. there is not a debate here.

2) usually not. there are huge disparities in community programs that are taken for granted in middle and upper-income communities. when federal $ for community development and social programs is allocated, these programs arise in low-resource communities. when funds dry up (like the coming sequestration cuts), these programs disappear in low-resource communities - they are constant in middle- and upper-income communities.

3) stress in the womb plays a huge role in cognitive development early in life, stress in early childhood plays an even bigger role. black and white kids have about the same levels of development very early in life, then by the time of school there are small gaps, then during the school years those gaps grow much larger, with the largest gaps arising in the summer months interestingly enough.

 

[autry_denson]

Putting aside a report pre-designed to confirm its own biases, this is much different than what you originally wrote.

read the report. read it again until you understand it. it is national data from the census. it is purely descriptive, meaning there is no need for extensive interpretation here. and it indicates exactly what I wrote. if you still don't get it, read it again.

 

[Rack Em]

What happened to your "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" because "life isn't fair" talk from the politics thread. Is that only true when it comes to disadvantaged people? God forbid some white kid didn't get into an Ivy League school. Perhaps they just need to work harder. It cuts both ways my friend.

If that kid deserved to be accepted into the Ivy League, then yes that is a shame. That student isn't entitled to an Ivy education, but denying someone who has earned it is wrong.