FSU Criminal Investigations

[Irish Insanity]

Totally agree. If you raise your fist at someone, that is assault, period. She is no angel and should be prosecuted as well.

Raising your fist at someone isn't assault. I'm no lawyer or police officer, but I doubt anyone, ever, has been arrested or charged for raising their fist at someone.

 

[dales5050]

It's actually pretty amazing (and telling) that you even brought gender politics into my comment. I said it as a comment about the internet era and how even if this girl did nothing wrong there are certain circles where she will always be viewed as a racist. I don't understand how someone who is against the Nungesser situation could look at that kind of injustice and say "So?".

The reason I said SO is simple. There are two ways to solve the ongoing issue of people being tried in the court of public opinion.

The first way is for everyone to stand up for those who are falsely accused and hammer those who make false accusations. I don't see this as being possible sadly.

The second way is for more and more people to be exposed to this. When everyone is equally exposed to something, then you will start to see the public as a whole demand change.

So my 'SO' was just a very short way of saying the above.

 

[GoldenDome]

I mean, I will have zero problems if she is prosecuted... and I would say the vast majority of people, male or female, who get into these situations 'aren't angels'... but again, as a man, you don't use THAT amount of force on any woman unless you are in serious harm's way, which he wasn't.

Yeah I get that he used excessive force. Totally unacceptable.

My question I guess then is, do social norms give females permissive rights to threaten someone with violence and get away with it?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Totally agree. If you raise your fist at someone, that is assault, period. She is no angel and should be prosecuted as well.

Disagree completely and not sure it's really debatable but I'm interested in hearing why.

 

[GoldenDome]

Raising your fist at someone isn't assault. I'm no lawyer or police officer, but I doubt anyone, ever, has been arrested or charged for raising their fist at someone.

That is definitely assault.

 

[ACamp1900]

Yeah I get that he used excessive force. Totally unacceptable.

My question I guess then is, do social norms give females permissive rights to threaten someone with violence and get away with it?

no

 

[GoldenDome]

Disagree completely and not sure it's really debatable but I'm interested in hearing why.

Examples of assault include swinging a baseball bat at someone but not hitting them, waving your fist at someone without making contact, and pointing a gun, loaded or not, at someone, while they are aware that you are pointing a gun at them.

The Basics of Criminal Assault - Attorneys.com

 

[dales5050]

Raising your fist at someone isn't assault. I'm no lawyer or police officer, but I doubt anyone, ever, has been arrested or charged for raising their fist at someone.

You're incorrect.

Overview of Florida Assault and Battery Laws
Although assault and battery are often related crimes and discussed together, the two are actually distinct offenses. Florida state laws define the two crimes separately.

Assault refers to a threat of harm that leads to the victim's fear of imminent harm. The offense does not include physical contact between the perpetrator and the victim. First a prosecutor must show that the defendant intended to threaten the victim, cause the victim to feel fear, or carry out a violent act. A defendant may want try to show a lack of criminal intent claiming the act was an accident or a joke. The prosecutor must also show that the defendant demonstrated the threat through words, a gesture, or an intimidating act. The defendant must have shown an ability to carry out the threat and the victim must have feared imminent harm.

Florida statutes establish specific offenses for simple assault, aggravated assault, and felony assault. The severity of the offense and the potential punishment depends on the type of assault charged by the state prosecutor.

When the defendant makes physical contact with the victim, Florida state laws allow for prosecution of the act as a battery. To prove a battery case, the prosecutor must show that the defendant intentionally touched or struck the victim. The physical contact must have been against the victim's will and done without the victim's consent.

As with assault, Florida law establishes several types of battery. Simple battery only requires an intentional, unwanted physical contact between the defendant and the victim. If the defendant has a previous conviction for battery, state laws permit the prosecutor to charge the defendant with felony battery for a subsequent offense. To prove aggravated battery, the prosecutor must show that the defendant intended to cause serious bodily injury to the victim or that the defendant used a deadly weapon.

 

[Irish Insanity]

That is definitely assault.

Examples of assault include swinging a baseball bat at someone but not hitting them, waving your fist at someone without making contact, and pointing a gun, loaded or not, at someone, while they are aware that you are pointing a gun at them.

The Basics of Criminal Assault - Attorneys.com

Raising your fist and waiving your fist are two completely different things. To me waiving would include a threatening motion, raising is simply lifting it in the air.

 

[dales5050]

Raising your fist and waiving your fist are two completely different things. To me waiving would include a threatening motion, raising is simply lifting it in the air.

The law says - Assault refers to a threat of harm that leads to the victim's fear of imminent harm. -

Seeing as since she actually hit him...I think any fear he had of imminent harm is pretty damn justified. She was not just raising a fist and suggesting she was is foolish.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I didn't quote or comment on what she did. I quoted and responded to a specific post and the wording of it.
I appreciate the info you've posted. Thx.

 

[Wingman Ray]

So he pushes his way to the bar and at one point grabs her and you blame her for kneeing and throwing a punch at him..... If it is my daughter the moment he grabs her wrist, I want her swinging on him like her life depends on it. This is ridiculous, he clearly tried to force his way to the front of the bar, she confronted him about it and once he grabbed her she went nuts but at no point was he in real danger and for him to blast her like that was pure trash... I think you would have a very different take on this if you have a daughter or if that girl was your daughter

Hmmm not so fast there my friend...(do I hear the ghost of Corso here?)

Firstly my daughter wont be taught to react with violence. My daughter wont be taught that she can physically handle a man (which women cannot). Any woman that physically strikes a man that says something she doesnt like is wrong...period. Just because we live in a country of partial views to females does not make it right. People have the right to say what they want. We have the right and the responsibility to walk away from it.

I do not condone what he did....no man should ever lay a hand on a woman in anger. But with that said, she had no right to do what she did (strike at him first) either.

The problem is that we live a country of Oprah Winfreys and entitlement. Kids today do not know the meaning of reaping what they sow. In my time, if you talked it, you better walk it. If you didnt, you got your rear handed to you and that was that. People knew their limitations. Now we are a country of wimps with lawyers on speed dial if anyone says anything that we dont like...despite what we say or do.

 

[GoIrish41]

I am reading some of these posts and thinking back to how I was many old movies had scenes with men slapping women. It was almost like there could not be a movie unless a woman took a shot to the grill ... Today, stuff like this draws a general sense of outrage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZaEP51rtmg

 

[dales5050]

The problem is that we live a country of Oprah Winfreys and entitlement. Kids today do not know the meaning of reaping what they sow. In my time, if you talked it, you better walk it. If you didn't, you got your rear handed to you and that was that. People knew their limitations. Now we are a country of wimps with lawyers on speed dial if anyone says anything that we don't like...despite what we say or do.

This. So much this.

 

[jerboski]

Hmmm not so fast there my friend...(do I hear the ghost of Corso here?)

Firstly my daughter wont be taught to react with violence. My daughter wont be taught that she can physically handle a man (which women cannot). Any woman that physically strikes a man that says something she doesnt like is wrong...period. Just because we live in a country of partial views to females does not make it right. People have the right to say what they want. We have the right and the responsibility to walk away from it.

I do not condone what he did....no man should ever lay a hand on a woman in anger. But with that said, she had no right to do what she did (strike at him first) either.

The problem is that we live a country of Oprah Winfreys and entitlement. Kids today do not know the meaning of reaping what they sow. In my time, if you talked it, you better walk it. If you didnt, you got your rear handed to you and that was that. People knew their limitations. Now we are a country of wimps with lawyers on speed dial if anyone says anything that we dont like...despite what we say or do.

LOL I like the Corso reference, well played!!

Now to the debate.... She didn't just hit because of what he said, she hit him because he pushed her and then proceeded to grab her wrists that is the point, he put his hands on her when he grabbed her wrists that is when she swung at him so its not like she was anticipating fighting him, on the contrary she was being held by him and I am sure felt some anxiety and fear at that moment so she took a swing at him. Would you allow someone to grab your wrist and push you back without doing anything about it, what would be your message to your daughter if she is in an argument and the man grabs her wrists and pushes her back?? I'm sure it isn't to just accept it and take it because he is a man and stronger.....

I agree with the Oprah comment but by no means did she reap what she sowed, she was in front of him and he tried to push his way through and she told him off, that shouldn't constitute being grabbed or socked in the face.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm sure at some point everyone on this board has dealt with an annoying bitch. I would hope that none of us punched them in the face. After reading some of the comments, I have my doubts.

But what about Women's Lib and equal rights? They just want to be treated equally.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm starting to think a lot of people in this thread HAVEN'T been to a crowded college bar. I've seen much more forceful ways to the bar before.

I'm beginning to think you spend too much time in college bars! lol

 

[Irish#1]

I am reading some of these posts and thinking back to how I was many old movies had scenes with men slapping women. It was almost like there could not be a movie unless a woman took a shot to the grill ... Today, stuff like this draws a general sense of outrage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZaEP51rtmg

Bogey slapped a few around, but never with a closed fist.

 

[GoIrish41]

Bogey slapped a few around, but never with a closed fist.

I think I caught a Ronnie Reagan clip in there, too. No closed fist but a running start.

 

[IrishLax]

Let's try out this hypothetical:

"My wife was being a real piece of work last night. I don't even think I did anything wrong, and she goes off insulting me and calling me names... even raised a fist at me. So I grabbed her and she starts struggling and yelling for me to let her go... and then the bitch takes a swing at me. So I slugged her in the face, busted her nose, and gave her a black eye. She had it coming."

That's basically the situation some of you are defending in this thread.

 

[ACamp1900]

Let's try out this hypothetical:

"My wife was being a real piece of work last night. I don't even think I did anything wrong, and she goes off insulting me and calling me names... even raised a fist at me. So I grabbed her and she starts struggling and yelling for me to let her go... and then the bitch takes a swing at me. So I slugged her in the face, busted her nose, and gave her a black eye. She had it coming."

That's basically the situation some of you are defending in this thread.

 

[Wild Bill]

Let's try out this hypothetical:

"My wife was being a real piece of work last night. I don't even think I did anything wrong, and she goes off insulting me and calling me names... even raised a fist at me. So I grabbed her and she starts struggling and yelling for me to let her go... and then the bitch takes a swing at me. So I slugged her in the face, busted her nose, and gave her a black eye. She had it coming."

That's basically the situation some of you are defending in this thread.

The distinction would be that these two are complete strangers. You would react to a stranger far different than a spouse b/c the level of force they may use against you is far more unpredictable (that assumes your wife is below a 5 crazy).

 

[GoIrish41]

Try making a homophobic statement toward someone of homosexual preference and see what happens. Now labeled as a hate crime.

Back in the days when you either got rolled or rolled someone, it was done. A little blood, a black eye...all was said and done. Then the 2000's came when the guns started coming out instead of the fists and it didnt matter if you were the next Bruce Lee if someone had a gun. Or people ran in packs so while you were crushing the loud mouth with the spaghetti arms, you had four of his buddies on your back.

Lawyers being bad is when people call down the thunder but do not want to deal with the lightning. If you arent willing to walk the walk, dont talk the talk.

No it isn't ... but don't beat the shit out of me for pointing that out.

 

[jerboski]

Try making a homophobic statement toward someone of homosexual preference and see what happens. Now labeled as a hate crime.

Back in the days when you either got rolled or rolled someone, it was done. A little blood, a black eye...all was said and done. Then the 2000's came when the guns started coming out instead of the fists and it didnt matter if you were the next Bruce Lee if someone had a gun. Or people ran in packs so while you were crushing the loud mouth with the spaghetti arms, you had four of his buddies on your back.

Lawyers being bad is when people call down the thunder but do not want to deal with the lightning. If you arent willing to walk the walk, dont talk the talk.

How exactly was she trying to walk the walk???? She was being bumped and at no point did she probably think "Hey, I want to fight this man so I can walk the walk" .... Your post makes no sense to me in relation to her actions

 

[Irish Insanity]

I agree with you. Nobody should hit anybody, regardless of gender, unless they reasonably believe they are being threatened.

UFC? Boxing? Italics

 

[ACamp1900]

still single. haha.

Probably because you keep beating every woman you come across.....

 

[GoIrish41]

Probably because you keep beating every woman you come across.....

Otherwise we'd just call him "Bill"

 

[BeauBenken]

Yeah, and I've also seen that approach result in fights or, at minimum, someone yelling at somebody for pushing them

The girl in the video clearly isn't some peach... but there simply is no justification -- ever -- for putting your hands on someone because they mouthed off.

It was not just because she mouthed off though. I don't think it was a smart move to grab her wrists, but I get why he'd do it. Man, woman, transgender, or whatever, I would rather you not punch me.

I'm beginning to think you spend too much time in college bars! lol

Actually you're more likely to find me in an old person bar than a campus bar because of stuff like this. People handle themselves a lot better and the atmosphere is often just a lot better and more friendly. (And good beers at good prices as opposed to 4 dollars for like a Miller Lite or some domestic crap.)

Let's try out this hypothetical:

"My wife was being a real piece of work last night. I don't even think I did anything wrong, and she goes off insulting me and calling me names... even raised a fist at me. So I grabbed her and she starts struggling and yelling for me to let her go... and then the bitch takes a swing at me. So I slugged her in the face, busted her nose, and gave her a black eye. She had it coming."

That's basically the situation some of you are defending in this thread.

Have you considered the hypothetical of that girl being able to lay some freaking wood though? Or does it have to be a man before you feel threatened?

I'm still posting in this thread because I feel like we can all discuss this in a civil manner. Don't start trying to attack people's character by acting like we support this guy hitting the girl. His actions are more justified (not sure if that's the perfect word) than suggested though.

Question, what are your feelings towards the following video?

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lO88Sj6u6yQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

I get that it doesn't represent what happened perfectly, but you still have a much larger kid who could likely take the smaller kid's punches (like is assumed in this particular case) and just walk away, but instead he retaliates. Are his actions justified? Did he use excessive force? Why?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

So big, strong D1 athlete moves in and pushes girl and she turns around to hold her ground and he makes threatening movements by grabbing at her so she goes to push him away and he punches her in the face. And they should both be charged?

He never felt threatened by her and arguing that he did is bullshit. He never looked intimidated, he always looked like the aggressor given his body movements.

 

[IrishLax]

Question, what are your feelings towards the following video?

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lO88Sj6u6yQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

I get that it doesn't represent what happened perfectly, but you still have a much larger kid who could likely take the smaller kid's punches (like is assumed in this particular case) and just walk away, but instead he retaliates. Are his actions justified? Did he use excessive force? Why?

You trolling? You're not actually comparing the situations are you? They have literally nothing in common except that they both involve punches.