Freshman Ineligibility Making a Comeback?

IrishLax

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Freshman ineligibility? NCAA commissioners at least considering it - CBSSports.com

It's hard to argue that it wouldn't be better for college sports as a whole, and it'd also force the NBA to adjust their rules OR "one-and-done" players to go somewhere that isn't COLLEGE.

The bigger question though is whether it's fair to student athletes. I'd argue no, especially for ones who don't need remedial classes, etc. and can graduate early from high school.
 

Nick Setta

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Freshman ineligibility? NCAA commissioners at least considering it - CBSSports.com

It's hard to argue that it wouldn't be better for college sports as a whole, and it'd also force the NBA to adjust their rules OR "one-and-done" players to go somewhere that isn't COLLEGE.

The bigger question though is whether it's fair to student athletes. I'd argue no, especially for ones who don't need remedial classes, etc. and can graduate early from high school.

Lol could you imagine how terrible ND would be if they had that in place last year. We'd start Marquis Dickerson.
 

IrishLax

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Lol could you imagine how terrible ND would be if they had that in place last year. We'd start Marquis Dickerson.

It's really absurd to think about. If you went to freshman ineligibility, you'd have to increase the scholarship cap to at least 95 to compensate.
 

woolybug25

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Freshman ineligibility? NCAA commissioners at least considering it - CBSSports.com

It's hard to argue that it wouldn't be better for college sports as a whole, and it'd also force the NBA to adjust their rules OR "one-and-done" players to go somewhere that isn't COLLEGE.

The bigger question though is whether it's fair to student athletes. I'd argue no, especially for ones who don't need remedial classes, etc. and can graduate early from high school.

I think you mean it's not fair to athletes, not student athletes. As athletes with actual academic goals aren't hurt by this, if anything, it puts them on a fair footing with the guys that aren't going to college to "play skool". They get a head start on their academics, can develop physically and be ready to compete with less rigour around their course load.

Let the NBA or any other leagues adapt. Hell, let kids go to Europe for bball, the CFL in football, etc if they truly don't want to be a student.
 

Nick Setta

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It's really absurd to think about. If you went to freshman ineligibility, you'd have to increase the scholarship cap to at least 95 to compensate.

Wasn't it 105 back in the day or was there no limit? We'd still be struggling to get to 85
 

arrowryan

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So this idea is pretty much completely based on the fact that there are a lot of "one and dones" in college basketball? That sound like they have a problem with men's basketball, not college athletics as a whole. Notre Dame is one of the most demanding universities when it comes to academics. If they are able to keep their kids eligible while they are also participating in sports, there is no reason why other schools can't do the same thing
 

GoldenDome

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I think you mean it's not fair to athletes, not student athletes. As athletes with actual academic goals aren't hurt by this, if anything, it puts them on a fair footing with the guys that aren't going to college to "play skool". They get a head start on their academics, can develop physically and be ready to compete with less rigour around their course load.

Let the NBA or any other leagues adapt. Hell, let kids go to Europe for bball, the CFL in football, etc if they truly don't want to be a student.

Kids can already do this. Brandon Jennings.

My position is that it will push kids further away from education. I think letting players enter the draft but do not hire an agent while protecting their student athlete privilege is the way to go. Then if they are not drafted, they still keep their amateur status and can come back to college still earn a degree while playing collegiate sports. A "see the light" of not getting drafted and putting more emphasis on education at the same time.
 

IrishLax

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Wasn't it 105 back in the day or was there no limit? We'd still be struggling to get to 85

The first cap was at 105, before that it was unlimited. The sport has evolved over time with the "have nots" outside the major conferences more or less 'ruining' the sport with regulations that only help them keep cost down and be more competitive. This is one of the bigger points of why there was the "Power 5" autonomy movement recently because college football had basically gotten to tipping point where the entire product is seriously at risk from litigation... and if the power players had been able to make changes they wanted this never would've happened.

I think you mean it's not fair to athletes, not student athletes. As athletes with actual academic goals aren't hurt by this, if anything, it puts them on a fair footing with the guys that aren't going to college to "play skool". They get a head start on their academics, can develop physically and be ready to compete with less rigour around their course load.

Let the NBA or any other leagues adapt. Hell, let kids go to Europe for bball, the CFL in football, etc if they truly don't want to be a student.

What I more mean is that if you're the kind of kid that goes to Stanford with a 4.0 and a bunch AP classes and can easily handle the academic load there seems to be no reason that you should HAVE TO sit out if you're ready to play. It seems unfair to cut that experience from someone just because of other players that are problems. In fact, I'd love to see a freshman ineligibility rule tied directly to test scores/GPA/AP credits/etc. as an incentive to make prospective student athletes work harder. The NCAA minimums should also be raised, IMO.
 

Woneone

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Love the idea. Mainly because it's the first step, in my opinion, to cleaning up amateur athletics. Doing this puts the pressure on:

a.) The professional leagues to remove/reduce the barriers for entry for kids out of high school.
b.) Fosters the creation of alternative "play for pay" options for kids that have no desire to "Play School".

-- On the "Play School" part, and I know this probably isn't the proper place for this, but did anyone see the piece College Gameday did with Calipari and Willie Cauly Stein? In it, Calipari talked about how WCS came to him and said, and I'm paraphrasing, "This academic stuff isn't for me". So, Calipari said they created a "Book Club". The way it sounded, it was almost like a replacement to the academics. It was art and book club, or at least that's how it sounded to me, no more of those pesky academics that WCS didn't like. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's exactly situations like that where kids need another outlet other than college to refine their profession (in this case basketball). Let him play in the D-League. If he isn't going to "Play School", he shouldn't be playing ball in college.
 
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Old Man Mike

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... complex subject.

This however might help some to clean up recruiting. Players would know that they were picking a university for multiple years, one at least of which had nothing to do with football.

My number one "option" though has been the creation of minor leagues for "kids" to go to right after high school. Yes "military academies" et al exist, but they don't have the street cred. An unabashed NFL-sponsored minor league could. For universities who try to do it right, there would still be outstanding football, and that would still be a pipeline to the pros. The college game would gain respect as an actual student-athlete activity.

Objectors that this would hurt certain economic group kids might imagine that any university "distractions" from their football dreams now interferes with their chances for success in that dream more. Objectors that this would give those kids nothing to fall back on, might imagine that unless they perform well for MeatFactoryU on the field, and get hired by a wealthy alum, they have nothing to fall back on now anyway.

I'm not claiming that the idea makes sense [complex world], but I'm willing to try something other than the pseudo-academic stinker that we currently have.
 

Irish#1

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The first cap was at 105, before that it was unlimited. The sport has evolved over time with the "have nots" outside the major conferences more or less 'ruining' the sport with regulations that only help them keep cost down and be more competitive. This is one of the bigger points of why there was the "Power 5" autonomy movement recently because college football had basically gotten to tipping point where the entire product is seriously at risk from litigation... and if the power players had been able to make changes they wanted this never would've happened.



What I more mean is that if you're the kind of kid that goes to Stanford with a 4.0 and a bunch AP classes and can easily handle the academic load there seems to be no reason that you should HAVE TO sit out if you're ready to play. It seems unfair to cut that experience from someone just because of other players that are problems. In fact, I'd love to see a freshman ineligibility rule tied directly to test scores/GPA/AP credits/etc. as an incentive to make prospective student athletes work harder. The NCAA minimums should also be raised, IMO.

A very good idea. Schools could set up a limited athletic schedule for practice and workouts with no games.

The freshman rule was to make sure kids adjusted to college, but also to allow them to mature physically so they could compete on the field. Given the advancements in health care, nutrition and weight programs in HS, those barriers have been reduced considerably. While there are still freshmen that aren't ready to compete physically, there are many more today that are.
 

ThePiombino

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Freshman ineligibility? NCAA commissioners at least considering it - CBSSports.com

It's hard to argue that it wouldn't be better for college sports as a whole, and it'd also force the NBA to adjust their rules OR "one-and-done" players to go somewhere that isn't COLLEGE.

The bigger question though is whether it's fair to student athletes. I'd argue no, especially for ones who don't need remedial classes, etc. and can graduate early from high school.
Sorry if already suggested, but maybe EEs could be exempt? The assumption being that if they were able to make themselves academically eligible for EE status that they could handle the frosh student-athlete load. Just a thought...
 

dublinirish

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NFL has the NCAA has a free minor league/farm system already. they'd have no interest funding anything when they get all their athletes for free
 

kmoose

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It's really absurd to think about. If you went to freshman ineligibility, you'd have to increase the scholarship cap to at least 95 to compensate.

You are going to give out 95 basketball scholarships?
 
C

Cackalacky

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I would love to see higher minimum requirements for student athletes. I also agree that more and more freshmen are physically ready to play but how many of those out of all incoming freshmen are not? Probably the large majority.

Making a freshman inelligble would leave the really good athletes with a minimum of two years to play in games ( if they choose to leave early for the NFL) unless further rules would be inacted. I don't think the NFL would like that as far as player development.

All in all I would like to see the student athletes be students and amateurs be allowed to be amateurs like all most other sports.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Something has to be done about college basketball. It's God awful. Unwatchable. The tourney is still exciting, but the quality of college basketball is at an all time low.

1. AAU has ruined these kids. They learn nothing about the game. They don't know how to play. Too much 1 on 1.

2. 1 and done sucks. Make em stay for 2-3 years.

3. Aside from 3-4 guys, we fans don't know these kids because of the 1 and done and incredibly high transfer numbers.
 

Nick Setta

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Something has to be done about college basketball. It's God awful. Unwatchable. The tourney is still exciting, but the quality of college basketball is at an all time low.

1. AAU has ruined these kids. They learn nothing about the game. They don't know how to play. Too much 1 on 1.

2. 1 and done sucks. Make em stay for 2-3 years.

3. Aside from 3-4 guys, we fans don't know these kids because of the 1 and done and incredibly high transfer numbers.

College basketball sucks now because teams are just bad at shooting. I saw that a game was 19-13 at halftime, come on that's just terrible. It's not even defense is getting better offenses can't hit shots or even move the ball.
 

irishroo

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Something has to be done about college basketball. It's God awful. Unwatchable. The tourney is still exciting, but the quality of college basketball is at an all time low.

1. AAU has ruined these kids. They learn nothing about the game. They don't know how to play. Too much 1 on 1.

2. 1 and done sucks. Make em stay for 2-3 years.

3. Aside from 3-4 guys, we fans don't know these kids because of the 1 and done and incredibly high transfer numbers.

The talent level in the NBA right now is as high or higher than its ever been. AAU is working
 

Polish Leppy 22

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College basketball sucks now because teams are just bad at shooting. I saw that a game was 19-13 at halftime, come on that's just terrible. It's not even defense is getting better offenses can't hit shots or even move the ball.

College ball sucks for many reasons. I think shooting comes in around #18.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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The talent level in the NBA right now is as high or higher than its ever been. AAU is working

AAU is a corrupt joke. Yes NBA is better now than 10 years ago, but that's mainly due to LJ and KD, not AAU.

Go on YouTube and pull up AAU clips. It's a 1 on 1 And1 mixtape with no movement and no defense...so yeah close relation to 80% of the NBA
 

irishtrain

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Love the idea. Mainly because it's the first step, in my opinion, to cleaning up amateur athletics. Doing this puts the pressure on:

a.) The professional leagues to remove/reduce the barriers for entry for kids out of high school.
b.) Fosters the creation of alternative "play for pay" options for kids that have no desire to "Play School".

-- On the "Play School" part, and I know this probably isn't the proper place for this, but did anyone see the piece College Gameday did with Calipari and Willie Cauly Stein? In it, Calipari talked about how WCS came to him and said, and I'm paraphrasing, "This academic stuff isn't for me". So, Calipari said they created a "Book Club". The way it sounded, it was almost like a replacement to the academics. It was art and book club, or at least that's how it sounded to me, no more of those pesky academics that WCS didn't like. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's exactly situations like that where kids need another outlet other than college to refine their profession (in this case basketball). Let him play in the D-League. If he isn't going to "Play School", he shouldn't be playing ball in college.

This ---and one more--- an analyst on the sec network will talking with Finebaum was heard to say I don't like to read ( books ) when asked about some topic Finebaum was blowharding about. My first thought was I guess you didn't have to do much of that while at named sec school he went to before turning pro. All you have to do is really listen and you can decode all the #$%@ that is going on out there.
 

Nick Setta

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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf...for-football--men-s-basketball-210413637.html
By Sam Cooper
Oct 12, 2013; University Park, PA, USA; A general view of the Big Ten logo prior to the game between the Penn State …
The idea of making freshmen ineligible seems to be gaining some traction among Power Five conferences.

Last week it was reported that the Pac-12 suggested the idea to restore the freshman ineligibility rule to the other Power Five conferences. The Big Ten is reportedly on board with the idea.

According to The Diamondback, the University of Maryland’s student newspaper, the Big Ten hopes to begin a “national discussion” with a proposal that would make freshmen ineligible to for both football and men’s basketball. The proposal, which is titled “A Year of Readiness,” is meant to look at “the health of the education experience,” according to The Diamondback, which has obtained the document.

The document details how making freshmen ineligible would help athletes from an academic standpoint.

The document, which shows football and men’s basketball as the only sports with graduation rates less than 75 percent across the NCAA, states that a push for freshman ineligibility would benefit athletes academically. Men’s basketball and football players lag behind other sports in terms of academics, according to data provided in the document. Among the 34 sports listed in the Graduation Success Rate data, football and men’s basketball ranked last in the 2004 to 2007 cohort, according to the document. Among the 38 sports listed in the Academic Progress Rate data from 2009 to 2013, those two sports also ranked last.

Additionally, the Big Ten’s proposal points to academics among men’s basketball and football athletes and how they differ from other sports.

The proposal examines “the imbalance observed in those two sports” and cites that football and men’s basketball student-athletes account for less than 19 percent of Division I participants, yet they account for more than 80 percent of academic infraction cases. It also suggests applying current academic eligibility standards for freshman student-athletes to sophomores if the “Year of Readiness” is approved.

Maryland President Wallace Loh seems to be intrigued by the possibility.

“What I like about the concept of the proposal is it puts right up front the basic issue: Are we basically a quasi-professional activity or primarily an educational activity?” Loh told The Diamondback. “And if you support it, you are basically saying very clearly the No. 1 priority is the education of the students.”

In general, this proposal seems more designed to be a deterrent to the one-and-done route taken by many college basketball players, who leave school after a single season to head to the pros.

As far as football goes, the large majority of freshmen take a redshirt year when they first arrive on campus. Players must be three years removed from high school in order to enter the NFL Draft anyway, so it’s hard to say what kind of impact this could potentially have on college football.

Sure, if certain teams lose some serious depth to the draft at a certain position, they would not be able to fill the void with a highly-touted true freshman. That, in turn, would place an added importance to having depth for programs across the board on both sides of the ball and special teams.

The Big Ten most likely wouldn't go in on this venture alone, either. Some recruits would simply rule out Big Ten schools if they could attend a school in another conference and be eligible to compete as a true freshman. If it were to ever come to fruition, it seems like a rule that would be implemented across the Power Five conference (with their new autonomy in place). The Big Ten hopes to lead a "national discussion" on this issue, after all. It wouldn't move forward without other leagues following suit."
 

T Town Tommy

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This ---and one more--- an analyst on the sec network will talking with Finebaum was heard to say I don't like to read ( books ) when asked about some topic Finebaum was blowharding about. My first thought was I guess you didn't have to do much of that while at named sec school he went to before turning pro. All you have to do is really listen and you can decode all the #$%@ that is going on out there.

Always a conspiracy, a lack of academic focus, cheating, yada yada. A little bit of internet research would show us that WCS actually turned down the projected 1st round NBA draft projection last year to return to school to get a degree he has stated was very important to him. Even with his injury, he was a projected first rounder. A little more research and one would find that he is actually a very good academic student who enjoys the college life and should graduate in the near future. Even a little more digging and one would find that his "book" club with Calipari is actually a series of books that are designed to make him a better person. But that doesn't fit neatly into the box some want to drown in with their sorrow I guess. WCS may very well be the exception with most of Calipari's talented players at Ky. But he is indeed an exception. Maybe he should be celebrated for who he is and what he does... both on and off the court. But somehow I don't think that would happen for the "conspiracy theorists" that lurk among us.

As far as reading in college... I didn't wake up every day and look forward to reading a book that probably wasn't going to benefit me either. Doesn't mean I didn't read it, go to class, take the test, pass the course, and walk away with a degree. And if one were to poll most college students, athletes or not, they would probably get about the same response. As much as it pained me in my undergraduate years, I survived Logic I and Logic II and to this day haven't thought twice about the books or the professor. And you know what? I did ok anyway.
 

ACamp1900

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As much as it pained me in my undergraduate years, I survived Logic I and Logic II and to this day haven't thought twice about the books or the professor. And you know what? I did ok anyway.

Jay-Z-300x181.gif
 

Woneone

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Always a conspiracy, a lack of academic focus, cheating, yada yada. A little bit of internet research would show us that WCS actually turned down the projected 1st round NBA draft projection last year to return to school to get a degree he has stated was very important to him. Even with his injury, he was a projected first rounder. A little more research and one would find that he is actually a very good academic student who enjoys the college life and should graduate in the near future. Even a little more digging and one would find that his "book" club with Calipari is actually a series of books that are designed to make him a better person. But that doesn't fit neatly into the box some want to drown in with their sorrow I guess. WCS may very well be the exception with most of Calipari's talented players at Ky. But he is indeed an exception. Maybe he should be celebrated for who he is and what he does... both on and off the court. But somehow I don't think that would happen for the "conspiracy theorists" that lurk among us.

As far as reading in college... I didn't wake up every day and look forward to reading a book that probably wasn't going to benefit me either. Doesn't mean I didn't read it, go to class, take the test, pass the course, and walk away with a degree. And if one were to poll most college students, athletes or not, they would probably get about the same response. As much as it pained me in my undergraduate years, I survived Logic I and Logic II and to this day haven't thought twice about the books or the professor. And you know what? I did ok anyway.

How many puppies has he saved? Old ladies walked across the street? Forgive us if we don't acknowledge the idea that he came back to school as some mark of exceptional character. Maybe he got advice from someone like Chad Ford,

"He's not ready," Ford told The Courier-Journal this week. "Teams love the fact that he's a great shot blocker and how well he moves, laterally and up and down the court, but he's going to struggle to see minutes in the NBA. He's a classic candidate to be heading directly to the D-League. I think he'd get better coaching, probably, and more fundamentals in college."

Also, I believe he declared his intentions pretty early, although speculation was that his injury would keep him from performing for scouts. The odds of him slipping even further were pretty good.

But I'm sure it was the degree he wanted....

"I want to come back and have a chance to win a national championship, while also getting closer to earning my degree."

Well, at least he's willing to "get closer", though I doubt it's important enough to him to obtain, so again, we can probably assume that it isn't the major motivating force on coming back. During his press release on coming back, which did he reference more, basketball or degree? You'll probably find your answer there.

After the Game Day interview, I actually had a lot of respect for WCS. Seems like a decent guy, great player. But even going back to High School, WCS has needed "pushed" academically to get going. You think that Book Club is doing that? I'm sure that's what's getting him by.

By the way, there are a pluthera of articles found via that old Internet Research from early 2014/2013 (I think, can't tell the actual date of posting) referencing that "Energy Bus" story. You think it's still going on? Or just a good story to tell in front of the cameras.

Long as it makes him a better person and student...

"And as for the bigger picture, a new love of reading and learning -- Cauley-Stein now tucks into bed every night with a tome of thought-provoking prose, right?"

"Um, no," he says.

Doesn't make him a bad guy. Just doesn't make what's being said untrue. I'll keep my tinfoil hat, thanks.
 
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T Town Tommy

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How many puppies has he saved? Old ladies walked across the street? Forgive us if we don't acknowledge the idea that he came back to school as some mark of exceptional character. Maybe he got advice from someone like Chad Ford,

"He's not ready," Ford told The Courier-Journal this week. "Teams love the fact that he's a great shot blocker and how well he moves, laterally and up and down the court, but he's going to struggle to see minutes in the NBA. He's a classic candidate to be heading directly to the D-League. I think he'd get better coaching, probably, and more fundamentals in college."

Also, I believe he declared his intentions pretty early, although speculation was that his injury would keep him from performing for scouts. The odds of him slipping even further were pretty good.

But I'm sure it was the degree he wanted....

"I want to come back and have a chance to win a national championship, while also getting closer to earning my degree."

Well, at least he's willing to "get closer", though I doubt it's important enough to him to obtain, so again, we can probably assume that it isn't the major motivating force on coming back. During his press release on coming back, which did he reference more, basketball or degree? You'll probably find your answer there.

After the Game Day interview, I actually had a lot of respect for WCS. Seems like a decent guy, great player. But even going back to High School, WCS has needed "pushed" academically to get going. You think that Book Club is doing that? I'm sure that's what's getting him by.

By the way, there are a pluthera of articles found via that old Internet Research from early 2014/2013 (I think, can't tell the actual date of posting) referencing that "Energy Bus" story. You think it's still going on? Or just a good story to tell in front of the cameras.

Long as it makes him a better person and student...

"And as for the bigger picture, a new love of reading and learning -- Cauley-Stein now tucks into bed every night with a tome of thought-provoking prose, right?"

"Um, no," he says.

Doesn't make him a bad guy. Just doesn't make what's being said untrue. I'll keep my tinfoil hat, thanks.

Really dude? So now Chad Ford is the GM for every NBA team in the league. Uh... ok.

So if saving puppies and walking old ladies across the street is the standard you make... how many athletes have done that at any school?

I guess since WCS doesn't wear an Irish jersey across his chest then he is simply just another talented athlete that doesn't care about academics, degrees, etc. It's those kind of shallow statements made by people that really make me laugh. I don't know this guy personally but have read enough about him to compliment him on his decision to return to school... even with his name on several teams board as their first pick while he was injured. He turns the money down, returns to school to get his degree, reads books that will make him a better person away from his sport, and all some can do is bad mouth him. Amazing... and pretty sad given the current climate of college athletics... to which no school is exempt from. Including Notre Dame.

You can take your tin foil hat off now. Enjoy.
 

GATTACA!

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Please someone explain to me the point of this, other than to stop one and done players in bball? Football players will still practice, lift, and participate in all activities as usual. So what's the difference whether they stand on the sidelines or see the field on saturdays. The problem isn't that these kids are playing early, it's the fact that football at a D1 school (especially power 5) is no longer an extracurricular, it's a full time job. These changes will do nothing to help shift the focus of student athletes time allocation.

If anything i would argue that because these players would be unable to make an early impact on the field more would end up being expected of them in the film room, the weight room, and on the practice field.
 
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