Forums..........

[kmoose]

The Leprechaun Lounge (103 Viewing)
Grab a green beer and pull up your chair, It's happy hour at the Leprechaun Lounge. Got something on your mind? Share it. Everythings fair game here.

Except discussions about how race plays a role in society, apparently.

 

[greyhammer90]

 

[Cali_domer]

 

[SaltyND24]

 

[greyhammer90]

Lax's third paragraph on the original post is really all I wanted to say. Nevertheless continue with the schadenfreude!

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[IrishLax]

I locked it and I just posted why. If other mods think we should open it back up, we'll open it back up.

I locked the thread and will explain why. If other mods think I was too hasty, I'll reopen it... but this is trending in a bad direction quickly.

The reason I locked it is that I don't think the board really needs this "debate" right now... which will inevitably result in a lot of people getting pissed at each other and no one gaining anything of value.

The bottom line is that the merits of "hate crime" legislation has always been debated for specifically two reasons. The first is that - save for very rare instances - it is near impossible to discern what someone's motivations are. Unless the person wrote in their diary "I'm going to beat the crap out of some whitey today because he is white" then you cannot say definitively that it was race motivated. So I get what everyone is saying in that respect and it's 100% valid and accurate. None of us have definitive evidence from that short video clip that it was race motivated... for all we know the kid maybe ratted on them for cheating. There are many, many possible scenarios.

Alternatively, you better believe that if three whites beat the crap out of a defenseless black kid and a nearby adult did nothing to stop it... MSNBC, Al Sharpton & Co., and every Liberal blog on the internet would be calling for "hate crimes" and Obama would have the DoJ looking into civil rights violations. We know this because they did it with George Zimmerman where it was a much murkier situation than a clear cut 3-on-1 beat down of a kid trying to get off a bus. So please try to see that side of things.

The second reason why people debate the merits of "hate crimes" is that it's a weird thing to legislate against what is in someone's mind versus what their actions are. The three involved are all being charged with felony aggravated battery. Is that not sufficient? I think it is.

As an aside, there is a great West Wing episode from many years ago about hate crime legislation and the pitfalls/merits of it. I recommend everyone watch it.

 

[DCIrish]

For the record, I agree with you about the presumption of race being a factor. But it's amazing to me, how many people were so quick to jump on the "race card" as inappropriate, but very few questioned the assumption that George Zimmerman was motivated by race.

By the way............ the racism I alluded to was not on the part of the attackers, but on the black bus driver who did nothing to stop it. I wonder if he would have been so nonchalant, if 3 white kids had been beating a black student? I wonder if we, as neutral observers, would have the same attitude about it, if it had been 3 white kids beating a black kid? Just some grist for the mill. Not trying to stir anything up but a discussion.

The thread title said racist beatdown and nothing about the bus driver. You are clearly assuming the kid got beat up because he was white.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Except discussions about how race plays a role in society, apparently.

I agree with Lax on this one. That thread in no way was intended to "discuss how race plays a role in society," as you put it.

 

[kmoose]

I agree with Lax on this one. That thread in no way was intended to "discuss how race plays a role in society," as you put it.

Ah.......... so no one can see into another's heart and mind, to determine their motives.................except you?

 

[autry_denson]

To have an informative debate which spurs introspection, and causes us to confront things about ourselves that we might not really care to admit, does not require proving anything. To make this clear.......

I don't think this was a racist beating, and I am not accusing the bus driver of being a racist..............

The point was to illustrate a situation where trying to interject race into the situation seems absurd. And, then, to follow that up with a comparison of another event where it seems that people just bought into the validity that race was a distinct probability. But, hey.......... if this topic is too hard for people to talk about, then I suggest they exercise their right to ignore it. But don't try to stop others from having a civil discussion about it. (As long as it remains civil, that is)

Ha, this is beautiful. Kmoose actually does not think this was a racist beating, he simply labeled the thread "racist beatdown" to make us all pause, look inward and reflect on the way that race is injected in absurd ways into social discourse...and watch a brutal beating of a helpless white kid while we do it.

Powerful pedagogy, kmoose.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Ah.......... so no one can see into another's heart and mind, to determine their motives.................except you?

Don't have to when the title of the thread is "Racist beatdown in Florida....."

That totally screams, "let's have an intellectually stimulating discussion on racial influences on society."

 

[kmoose]

Ha, this is beautiful. Kmoose actually does not think this was a racist beating, he simply labeled the thread "racist beatdown" to make us all pause, look inward and reflect on the way that race is injected in absurd ways into social discourse...and watch a brutal beating of a helpless white kid while we do it.

Powerful pedagogy, kmoose.

I apologize, if I offended your delicate sensibilities.

 

[Cackalacky]

Funny enough I though the thread was initially started by irishpat.

 

[Cackalacky]

Perhaps I did, on this topic. But all I really did was point down a path, to see how many people would blindly follow the arrow, and how many would question if it was the proper path. Call it a social experiment. I would prefer to think of it as a rope-a-dope........... get you looking one way, then hit you from another. It gets you mentally off balance, and forces you to really examine your own thoughts. For crying out loud, heaven forbid people around here should actually do some thinking?

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Perhaps I did, on this topic. But all I really did was point down a path, to see how many people would blindly follow the arrow, and how many would question if it was the proper path. Call it a social experiment. I would prefer to think of it as a rope-a-dope........... get you looking one way, then hit you from another. It gets you mentally off balance, and forces you to really examine your own thoughts. For crying out loud, heaven forbid people around here should actually do some thinking?

 

[kmoose]

Funny enough I though the thread was initially started by irishpat.

Now THAT hurt...............

 

[autry_denson]

I apologize, if I offended your delicate sensibilities.

Not at all. You've enlightened me with your 'racist beatdown' thread, I just hope everyone else appreciates the lesson you've given us.

 

[Cackalacky]

I want to see the raw data when this social experiment is over. I have a few "racism detection" algorithms I have been wanting to run.

 

[TheRealLynch51]

Perhaps I did, on this topic. But all I really did was point down a path, to see how many people would blindly follow the arrow, and how many would question if it was the proper path. Call it a social experiment. I would prefer to think of it as a rope-a-dope........... get you looking one way, then hit you from another. It gets you mentally off balance, and forces you to really examine your own thoughts. For crying out loud, heaven forbid people around here should actually do some thinking?

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[Cackalacky]

Antonyms for thinking:
brainless
dumb
irrational
stupid
unintelligent
vacuous
Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus, Third Edition Copyright © 2013 by the Philip Lief Group.

 

[mgriff]

 

[greyhammer90]

I really don't see how he was calling us stupid. It was fairly obvious he meant thinking critically at the subject at hand, not thinking period.

I think you guys have got good arguments against kmoose's posts and the way he went about them. Don't override or distract your points by going for a cheap semantics twist, that really does dilute the discussion.

 

[adsnorri]

I personally am glad and somewhat satisfied that this board has responded in this manner. That's all...continue.

I got beat up like that when I was in second grade, wasn't fun and it was totally racist. The lessons I have learned from it....grin:

 

[anarin]

Anything goes??

I hated bettis when he played for the steelers.

But I like him fine now haha

 

[kmoose]

Anything goes??

I hated bettis when he played for the steelers.

Communist!!

 

[DCIrish]

Perhaps I did, on this topic. But all I really did was point down a path, to see how many people would blindly follow the arrow, and how many would question if it was the proper path. Call it a social experiment. I would prefer to think of it as a rope-a-dope........... get you looking one way, then hit you from another. It gets you mentally off balance, and forces you to really examine your own thoughts. For crying out loud, heaven forbid people around here should actually do some thinking?

So you call it an social experiment when you get called out for interjecting race into a situation when you have no idea if that was the case.

Makes sense

 

[Cackalacky]

I really don't see how he was calling us stupid. It was fairly obvious he meant thinking critically at the subject at hand, not thinking period.

I think you guys have got good arguments against kmoose's posts and the way he went about them. Don't override or distract your points by going for a cheap semantics twist, that really does dilute the discussion.

I hate pedantics and here I am being pedantic. In I go:

 

[Cali_domer]

Anything goes??

I hated bettis when he played for the steelers.

But I like him fine now haha

You know what, gloves are off. I dislike that the White House is White.... We need to shake it up just like we(ND) do with our uniforms... Come on imagine a hot pink white house for a year..THINK ABOUT IT...

 

[Redbar]

Not at all. You've enlightened me with your 'racist beatdown' thread, I just hope everyone else appreciates the lesson you've given us.

I want to see the raw data when this social experiment is over. I have a few "racism detection" algorithms I have been wanting to run.

I personally am glad and somewhat satisfied that this board has responded in this manner. That's all...continue.

Hilarious. Pinpoint accuracy. Perfect. Close thread.

 

[ACamp1900]

For the record i hate all races...

white, black, 40 yard dashes, Tour De France...