Foreign Policy

[Irish#1]

Ah, when you're asked to clarify why you think one thing is correct but not the other it's shutdown time? I tried to see why you would (presumably) be ok with the end of the apartheid in South Africa, rise up in Warsaw, and slaves fighting back in slavery. I guess you have examples of other emancipation movements that were done peacefully?

You need to read it again - I compared the ANC and the situation with ending the Apartheid in South Africa, and that the US considered Mandela a terrorist until the 90s. I had figured someone who was an established adult at the time would be able to remember back to that time, but I guess you don't remember or don't want to?

Do the actions of a group mean that the entire population has to suffer from the actions of the most radical elements?

Shutdown time? Now it’s the Toronto’s reverse psychology to get me to answer? You going deep into your bag of tricks?

We’ve had these discussions before. Go back when this started and start reading.

 

[calvegas04]

What are @Giddyup and @RDU Irish opinion on the US possibly going to war for Israel? Ready to send your kids to the sandbox?

 

[GATTACA!]

Shutdown time? Now it’s the Toronto’s reverse psychology to get me to answer? You going deep into your bag of tricks?

We’ve had these discussions before. Go back when this started and start reading.

Just stop posting when you don't want to answer a question, like Bishop does. This is pathetic.

 

[TorontoGold]

Shutdown time? Now it’s the Toronto’s reverse psychology to get me to answer? You going deep into your bag of tricks?

We’ve had these discussions before. Go back when this started and start reading.

Am I wrong? You're not going to respond to anything and just do the typical two line response in which 1 is "ZOMG Vortex! You think you're so smart!!!" and 2 "I've already answered this!".

You misstate my positions but I can't respond to them or its the vortex? What is the best way in which someone can get you to communicate your position? We can go to yes or no questions so that you don't have to worry about long responses.

I've given you thought out responses, the least you can do is say why I'm wrong or arguing in bad faith.

 

[TorontoGold]

Just stop posting when you don't want to answer a question, like Bishop does. This is pathetic.

It's like NDFAN2008 but in politics form. *states incorrect position* *doesn't respond to any response* *rinse repeat*

 

[Fbolt]

Out of curiosity, how many here opining in this thread have ever served in the mil? In a conflict zone? Or, been to any of these places for any reason such as humanitarian/NGO?

 

[NDVirginia19]

What are @Giddyup and @RDU Irish opinion on the US possibly going to war for Israel? Ready to send your kids to the sandbox?

It wouldn’t be my kids, it would be my parents’, but I think that using B-2s to drop GBU-57s on Fordow would be appropriate

 

[Irish#1]

 

[BuaConstrictor]

 

[Irish#1]

Am I wrong? You're not going to respond to anything and just do the typical two line response in which 1 is "ZOMG Vortex! You think you're so smart!!!" and 2 "I've already answered this!".

You misstate my positions but I can't respond to them or its the vortex? What is the best way in which someone can get you to communicate your position? We can go to yes or no questions so that you don't have to worry about long responses.

I've given you thought out responses, the least you can do is say why I'm wrong or arguing in bad faith.

Yes you're wrong and arguing in bad faith. You're the self-proclaimed smartest guy in the room. Why don't you remember what I posted previously or go back and read the posts? Why is that unreasonable? If you think being too lazy to do that equates to me shutting down, then I don't know what to tell you.

However, so you and Gattaca will quit whining here you go. I already said human shields are bad. You bothered because I didn't post it in a manner that makes you feel like you won something? All Palestinians aren't terrorist (also previously stated in another post) and they shouldn't suffer. Unfortunately casualties are always a results of these conflicts. Doesn't mean I like it or I'm in favor of it. Should Israel be charged with crimes? That's for the United Nations to determine. Neither you or I have enough information to make that determination. When Hamas and Israel provide the records/data that we, nor the media are privy to we'll have our answer. Should Hamas be tried for war crimes since they instigated and slaughtered 1,200 innocent civilians on October 7?

SA was about as racist as a country can get. History shows Mandela was not a terrorist. Even though he was able to bring some normalcy, they still have a ways to go. Hard to compare WWII with the conflict in Gaza. The common denominator is both Hamas and Hitler want(ed) to eradicate Jews ("Polls suggest a low level of perceived humanity for Israelis among Palestinians, with an average score of 6 out of 100."), but Germany wanted to do more than just kill Jews.

Negotiations typically don't work until a certain level of death and destruction has occurred. Now how would you end this specific conflict outside of negotiations? It's already been shown that doesn't work with Hamas. Use a siege and make the innocent suffer? Knock on their doors and ask them to surrender?

Just stop posting when you don't want to answer a question, like Bishop does. This is pathetic.

 

[Irish#1]

It wouldn’t be my kids, it would be my parents’, but I think that using B-2s to drop GBU-57s on Fordow would be appropriate

You have to wonder why Iran wants Fordow to be hidden.

Fortified and hidden: Why Iran’s Fordow nuclear site is critical; how could Israel try to take it out? - Times of India

Middle East News: Tensions escalate between Israel and Iran, spotlighting Iran's heavily fortified Fordow nuclear facility, crucial for uranium enrichment and potential

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[RDU Irish]

What are @Giddyup and @RDU Irish opinion on the US possibly going to war for Israel? Ready to send your kids to the sandbox?

Fuck that shit. Just as much for fighting Israel's war as I am Ukraine's. Trump was hoodwinked into the COVID fiasco in his first term and now Israel looks like they will hoodwink him into doing their dirty work in his second term. The volume of neo-cons salivating over putting our bunker busters to work is quite telling. Lindsay Graham might need to see a doctor about his erection that is probably going on 48 hours.

 

[RDU Irish]

Where have I heard this WMD line before??? Israel are masterclass gaslighters. If we get attacked I would put at least 60/40 on Israel doing it to draw us in.

 

[RDU Irish]

It wouldn’t be my kids, it would be my parents’, but I think that using B-2s to drop GBU-57s on Fordow would be appropriate

My son's commissioning peers are not impressed with fighting Israel's war either. I am not impressed with Trump supposedly vetoing Israel killing Khemenei, hopefully that was a good cop/bad cop tactic to try and bring them to the table. I highly doubt Trump will be able to limit our involvement to just busting that site and definitely don't trust the rest of the MIC to be satisfied with such limited scope. Two weeks to flatten the curve!

John McCain is smiling in his grave right now. Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

That's for the United Nations to determine. Neither you or I have enough information to make that determination

You're astoundingly fucking stupid.

The UN has determined that Israel has committed crimes.

So has the ICC

My favorite thing about your longer response though is you actually didn't answer any of Toronto's questions. You're still avoiding them. You're a bitch.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

 

[TorontoGold]

Yes you're wrong and arguing in bad faith. You're the self-proclaimed smartest guy in the room. Why don't you remember what I posted previously or go back and read the posts? Why is that unreasonable? If you think being too lazy to do that equates to me shutting down, then I don't know what to tell you.

However, so you and Gattaca will quit whining here you go. I already said human shields are bad. You bothered because I didn't post it in a manner that makes you feel like you won something? All Palestinians aren't terrorist (also previously stated in another post) and they shouldn't suffer. Unfortunately casualties are always a results of these conflicts. Doesn't mean I like it or I'm in favor of it. Should Israel be charged with crimes? That's for the United Nations to determine. Neither you or I have enough information to make that determination. When Hamas and Israel provide the records/data that we, nor the media are privy to we'll have our answer. Should Hamas be tried for war crimes since they instigated and slaughtered 1,200 innocent civilians on October 7?

SA was about as racist as a country can get. History shows Mandela was not a terrorist. Even though he was able to bring some normalcy, they still have a ways to go. Hard to compare WWII with the conflict in Gaza. The common denominator is both Hamas and Hitler want(ed) to eradicate Jews ("Polls suggest a low level of perceived humanity for Israelis among Palestinians, with an average score of 6 out of 100."), but Germany wanted to do more than just kill Jews.

Negotiations typically don't work until a certain level of death and destruction has occurred. Now how would you end this specific conflict outside of negotiations? It's already been shown that doesn't work with Hamas. Use a siege and make the innocent suffer? Knock on their doors and ask them to surrender?

Because I'm asking for your opinion now, you posted something recently and I asked for more information about why you feel that way now. Do you go back each time when I post or anyone else posts? Surely you're not doing that.

The United Nations has determined that - https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...s-and-crimes-against-humanity-israeli-attacks

You've stated that the UN is the one to decide, they have decided, so are you willing to say that the Israeli government has indeed committed war crimes?

When have I ever said that Hamas shouldn't be tried for war crimes? I've routinely been anti-Hamas.

That doesn't answer the question - the ANC carried out horrible massacres and atrocities, Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist - does that mean that the black south africans did not deserve to have the apartheid lifted? Yes or no.

Did you read my point about WWII? It was that the polish resistance fought from the sewers. Palestinians are fighting from the tunnels etc. Were the Poles in the wrong when Nazi Germany was occupying their city? Yes or no.

Negotiations absolutely work. Who has ever been bombed into peace? If you want to say Japan, then are you willing to Nuke Gaza?

 

[NDVirginia19]

My son's commissioning peers are not impressed with fighting Israel's war either. I am not impressed with Trump supposedly vetoing Israel killing Khemenei, hopefully that was a good cop/bad cop tactic to try and bring them to the table. I highly doubt Trump will be able to limit our involvement to just busting that site and definitely don't trust the rest of the MIC to be satisfied with such limited scope. Two weeks to flatten the curve!

John McCain is smiling in his grave right now. Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran.

The Iranian regime has been behind thousands of US deaths in the region, they are actively partnered with our geopolitical foes in China and Russia, not to mention they have an active plot to assassinate US politicians like Trump, Pompeo, and others. While it is primarily Israel's problem, conducting a live fire demonstration of a couple of 30klb bomb on Fordow and let Israeli air power clean up the rest is a pretty pragmatic approach.

 

[NDVirginia19]

 

[RDU Irish]

The Iranian regime has been behind thousands of US deaths in the region, they are actively partnered with our geopolitical foes in China and Russia, not to mention they have an active plot to assassinate US politicians like Trump, Pompeo, and others. While it is primarily Israel's problem, conducting a live fire demonstration of a couple of 30klb bomb on Fordow and let Israeli air power clean up the rest is a pretty pragmatic approach.

I agree that would be a pragmatic approach - I don't trust that it would be limited to just that. Why stop there when regime change is within grasp! All the worst of the GOP is slobbering all over themselves right now.

Bombing the program is less attractive to me than getting them to dismantle it.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I agree that would be a pragmatic approach - I don't trust that it would be limited to just that. Why stop there when regime change is within grasp! All the worst of the GOP is slobbering all over themselves right now.

Bombing the program is less attractive to me than getting them to dismantle it.

I mean I agree wholeheartedly, and we tried to do that for 60 days and they refused, we gave them the easy way out and now they are facing the consequences.

 

[GATTACA!]

they have an active plot to assassinate US politicians like Trump

You can’t be this naive. You think there was credible intel that they attempted to kill Trump and then Trump, of all people, was still trying to negotiate with them afterwards?

 

[SeekNDestroy]

Out of curiosity, how many here opining in this thread have ever served in the mil? In a conflict zone? Or, been to any of these places for any reason such as humanitarian/NGO?

RDU would’ve served but he was disqualified due to his history of bedwetting.

 

[NorthDakota]

If Iran wasn't and isnt close to a nuke then I dont see why we should be involved. I'd include assisting Israel in that statement.

I've been busy with things the last few days so haven't done a ton of reading on this.

 

[RDU Irish]

I mean I agree wholeheartedly, and we tried to do that for 60 days and they refused, we gave them the easy way out and now they are facing the consequences.

TBH I am curious to see these bad ass bombs unleashed for their intended purpose, probably the exact site they are designed for. If I am curious, you know the MIC operators would give their left nut. Knowing you can't trust war lust blinded advisors, I'm do not envy any POTUS facing these types of decisions.

 

[NorthDakota]

The Iranian regime has been behind thousands of US deaths in the region, they are actively partnered with our geopolitical foes in China and Russia, not to mention they have an active plot to assassinate US politicians like Trump, Pompeo, and others. While it is primarily Israel's problem, conducting a live fire demonstration of a couple of 30klb bomb on Fordow and let Israeli air power clean up the rest is a pretty pragmatic approach.

I don't think bombing a country with 90 million people could be considered a live fire demonstration.

I think that might be opening a can of worms.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I don't think bombing a country with 90 million people could be considered a live fire demonstration.

I think that might be opening a can of worms.

I think a large scale bombing campaign, sure. I think a targeted elimination of the nuclear enrichment facility is not quite opening a can of worms.

 

[RDU Irish]

I don't think bombing a country with 90 million people could be considered a live fire demonstration.

I think that might be opening a can of worms.

NDVA makes a good point that this has been discussed with them extensively in this 60 day "you better" exercise. Trump is now in a bit of a put up or shut up position. Bringing the hammer out ONLY on this specific site had better be the overwhelming show of force to bring them to the table or else ..... what's next? Threats have been made, time for Iran to find out what we mean by "or else".

Iran would span from Denver to Chicago and down to the gulf coast - plenty of room for 90 million people to get away from the known #1 target facing non-nuclear hammering.

I am still not keen on pre-emptive attacks on sovereign nations no matter how much I dislike the leadership. Relying on Israeli intelligence is asking for an excuse more than doing due diligence, IMO.

Can of worms is exactly what the MIC is rooting for.

 

[NDVirginia19]

NDVA makes a good point that this has been discussed with them extensively in this 60 day "you better" exercise. Trump is now in a bit of a put up or shut up position. Bringing the hammer out ONLY on this specific site had better be the overwhelming show of force to bring them to the table or else ..... what's next? Threats have been made, time for Iran to find out what we mean by "or else".

Iran would span from Denver to Chicago and down to the gulf coast - plenty of room for 90 million people to get away from the known #1 target facing non-nuclear hammering.

I am still not keen on pre-emptive attacks on sovereign nations no matter how much I dislike the leadership. Relying on Israeli intelligence is asking for an excuse more than doing due diligence, IMO.

Can of worms is exactly what the MIC is rooting for.

Fordow is also not really in the middle of downtown Tehran too. It's quite literally the inspiration for the mission in Top Gun Maverick

 

[NDVirginia19]