Foreign Policy

[RDU Irish]

Not just in this country. Unfortunately, the left in all of the west.

Isn't it interesting that the US media doesn't seem to care that 5 Americans have been held hostage by Hamas for 7 months? It's like they have been completely forgotten about.

Anyone honestly believe these hostages are alive?

 

[RDU Irish]

Hamas has a significant constituency in the Dem party.

Pure Michigan.

 

[Irish#1]

It amazes me that people actually think a terrorist organization like Hamas are just a normal bunch of people that care about everyone and just want to live peacefully. If you don't eliminate them, they'll be doing the same crap later on.

 

[ulukinatme]

Anyone honestly believe these hostages are alive?

I think you underestimate Hamas' love of rape.

I think some of them are still alive, it's the only bargaining chip they have and the only thing preventing Israel from going complete scorched earth to wipe them out.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

This has been the most in-depth historical look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that I have heard. It’s extremely long (six-part series) and after finishing, it’s easy to understand how most Americans aren’t educated on the issue. To be clear, I’m still struggling w/ it as I came to realize both sides have been barbaric towards each other w/ no justification. My unprofessional opinion after listening to this is that Europe tried to help the Jews who were being butchered by the Pogroms & then the Holocaust but ended up making matters worse or simply relocated the Jewish nation’s plight from Europe to Israel.

 

[ulukinatme]

This has been the most in-depth historical look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that I have heard. It’s extremely long (six-part series) and after finishing, it’s easy to understand how most Americans aren’t educated on the issue. To be clear, I’m still struggling w/ it as I came to realize both sides have been barbaric towards each other w/ no justification. My unprofessional opinion after listening to this is that Europe tried to help the Jews who were being butchered by the Pogroms & then the Holocaust but ended up making matters worse or simply relocated the Jewish nation’s plight from Europe to Israel.

I was looking a bit at this guy's credentials as I wasn't familiar with his work. Dan Carlin, who is a former political commentator and now does a few independent podcasts on history, referred to the guy as a fascist I guess. Not really familiar with Dan's work either, just saw someone comment in a subreddit about Fear & Loathing and Cooper's tendencies seeping into his work. I'll give it a listen, just thought I'd share what I found. Most of my perspective on the conflict involves stuff I've dug up myself and listening to a ton of insane stories from colleagues and a few Jewish friends that used to serve in the Army. A lot of the stories highlighted the underhanded tactics Hamas uses, like firing rockets from civilian buildings to try and goad an Israeli response, or Hamas' indoctrination of kids through programs like Tomorrow's Pioneers.

 

[Irish#1]

I always found it curious that Jews, much like Catholics are many nationalities (Polish, Russian, German, etc.), yet after WWII the Allies decided to create a country based strictly on religion.

 

[Blazers46]

It amazes me that people actually think a terrorist organization like Hamas are just a normal bunch of people that care about everyone and just want to live peacefully. If you don't eliminate them, they'll be doing the same crap later on.

We just need to infiltrate their educational system with trans story time… slowly teach them our ways.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I always found it curious that Jews, much like Catholics are many nationalities (Polish, Russian, German, etc.), yet after WWII the Allies decided to create a country based strictly on religion.

It's not just a religion. They are a race called Hebrews, who were slaves of Egypt. They are descendants of Abraham. This is why secular Jews are still Jews. Interestingly enough, Abraham is also the father of the Arabs..

They did get scattered to the ends of the earth after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

 

[RDU Irish]

This has been the most in-depth historical look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that I have heard. It’s extremely long (six-part series) and after finishing, it’s easy to understand how most Americans aren’t educated on the issue. To be clear, I’m still struggling w/ it as I came to realize both sides have been barbaric towards each other w/ no justification. My unprofessional opinion after listening to this is that Europe tried to help the Jews who were being butchered by the Pogroms & then the Holocaust but ended up making matters worse or simply relocated the Jewish nation’s plight from Europe to Israel.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Next level move, NGL.

Why are we sticking our nose in this hornets nest? Just GTFO of their way and let them work. Sometimes you can support something by not opposing it. Same with Ukraine - Russia is Europe's problem more than ours. I'm not saying full blown isolationist, just a few large steps in that direction would save us hundreds of billions of dollars. If you think it is dangerous, apply some of the savings toward self sufficiency.

 

[ulukinatme]

I always found it curious that Jews, much like Catholics are many nationalities (Polish, Russian, German, etc.), yet after WWII the Allies decided to create a country based strictly on religion.

That land obviously has a long and bloody history. It's been conquered many times and conquered again. Jews probably have more of a stake in it than Palestine as their history predates the Arab state. It was first settled by Canaanites who later became vassals of Egypt for a time. Egypt pulled out and eventually the land was divided by two Israeli kingdoms of Israel and Judah with Philistines settling on the south coast. Then it was conquered by Assyrians, followed by Babylonians, then the Persians, then Alexander the Great. Eventually it came under control of Rome who then sacked Jerusalem about 70 years after Christ due to Jewish revolts. After that a bunch of different Muslim kingdoms fought over the land for years until it eventually wound up as part of the Ottoman Empire from the 1500s till WWI & II. From there we know the two state solution was formed with the Arab side rejecting it and the Jews accepting it. It let to the first war and Palestine ended up losing some of the land originally set aside for them. Israel has repeatedly made valid offers for a peaceful two state solution, but they're never accepted.

From a perspective of history those lands have always gone to the victor, with the last conqueror being the British who eventually gave the land up to form the two states. Historically it always was the land that Jews called home, there's just been a lot of other groups that have settled there too. I doubt that area will ever see peace. As long as there's some Jewish presence there I feel there will be Arab groups that want them wiped out.

 

[TorontoGold]

Going back to Tussin's comment in October? A lot of those early reports back then turned out to be bogus misinformation. It's pretty hard to take anything Hamas reports as truth. UN just released info that the latest Hamas reported death numbers were more than double what they found in their independent investigation. We saw the hospital scandal turn out to be an inside job that was blamed on Israel, in addition to doctored AI photos to illicit sympathy. There were cries of injustice in the media some months back when Israel hit a Mosque, only to find a tunnel network down below. If the aid truck getting hit was on Israel as they seem to think, that's certainly a big fuck up that Israel needs to avoid. Otherwise I don't have much of a problem personally with how Israel is handling this. Hamas has no plans for a peaceful solution, they only have one goal and it involves wiping out the Jews. Israel has offered more than fair terms on numerous occasions, it's never enough for the other side.

My point is - Tussin and (per you) people in your DM's said I was being antisemitic. I posted conservative MSM people that had comments that under previous definitions around here would be considered antisemitic. They of course are not being called that, but I was. Consistency isn't something I expect but I do want to highlight that.

The specific hospital strike that was previously discussed was likely from an errant rocket. But, I don't care what Hamas has to say, they should all be killed - the WHO/HRW have made claims that Israel has continually made strikes on healthcare facilities. That is not ok to me. All I've stated is that civilian causalities should not exceed what happened during the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. In Iraq, 12 hospitals were hit in a 9 year period. Israel has well exceeded that. That should not make me an antisemite for saying that, but Tussin et al have said I was an antisemite so I will let others take up the mantle on arguing why Palestinians should not be euthanatized.

I'll leave this point for consideration to those that want to piss their pants at my posts (not targeted at you Uluk) - Assuming all Jews support Israel is antisemitic, assuming all Muslims are the same is Islamophobic. Do not say "Why don't moar arabs accept Muslims?! Aint they the same" or "You're Jewish? Oh you must be really love Israel right?", you will get yelled at for being an ignorant fuck.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5930682/#:~:text=In%20Iraq%20between%20March%202003,bombers%20%5B9%E2%80%9321%5D.

 

[TorontoGold]

I always found it curious that Jews, much like Catholics are many nationalities (Polish, Russian, German, etc.), yet after WWII the Allies decided to create a country based strictly on religion.

Jews aren't similar to Catholics, like, at all. Might be your source of confusion.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I was looking a bit at this guy's credentials as I wasn't familiar with his work. Dan Carlin, who is a former political commentator and now does a few independent podcasts on history, referred to the guy as a fascist I guess. Not really familiar with Dan's work either, just saw someone comment in a subreddit about Fear & Loathing and Cooper's tendencies seeping into his work. I'll give it a listen, just thought I'd share what I found. Most of my perspective on the conflict involves stuff I've dug up myself and listening to a ton of insane stories from colleagues and a few Jewish friends that used to serve in the Army. A lot of the stories highlighted the underhanded tactics Hamas uses, like firing rockets from civilian buildings to try and goad an Israeli response, or Hamas' indoctrination of kids through programs like Tomorrow's Pioneers.

I love Dan Carlin’s ”Hardcore History” as well. Cooper begins the first episode talking about the pogroms executed by the Russians & how brutally inhuman they were towards the Jews. IMO, he presented the ”good, bad & ugly” of both sides.

 

[Blazers46]

I always found it curious that Jews, much like Catholics are many nationalities (Polish, Russian, German, etc.), yet after WWII the Allies decided to create a country based strictly on religion.

Tis the Holy Land. Which I think is why and is obvious.

 

[Blazers46]

It's not just a religion. They are a race called Hebrews, who were slaves of Egypt. They are descendants of Abraham. This is why secular Jews are still Jews. Interestingly enough, Abraham is also the father of the Arabs..

They did get scattered to the ends of the earth after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

A fascinating conversion among some Christian conservatives is that this destruction in 70AD was prophesy fulfilled as it relates to the second coming. Preterist v Futurist. Some of those with the Preterist view think of the Jews as similar as Arabs and a religious and even political foe. I have conservative friends that just think we need to leave the Middle East alone and let them have their holy war. The others that feel obligated to preserve the holy land. It’s quite fascinating the contrasting views of some conservative Christians.

 

[Sea Turtle]

A fascinating conversion among some Christian conservatives is that this destruction in 70AD was prophesy fulfilled as it relates to the second coming. Preterist v Futurist. Some of those with the Preterist view think of the Jews as similar as Arabs and a religious and even political foe. I have conservative friends that just think we need to leave the Middle East alone and let them have their holy war. The others that feel obligated to preserve the holy land. It’s quite fascinating the contrasting views of some conservative Christians.

It's funny you post that. I'm a partial preterist myself, believing that many of the events in Revelation were fulfilled during the siege of Jerusalem and that Nero was Anti-Christ.

 

[Blazers46]

It's funny you post that. I'm a partial preterist myself, believing that many of the events in Revelation were fulfilled during the siege of Jerusalem and that Nero was Anti-Christ.

It’s a very interesting conversation for sure. I think most (if not all) preterists view today as the millinia (I think it’s called) but we are still waiting on the return of Christ… just that most of revelation prophecy is on the back end not the front.

With that thought… a lot of preterists view Jews as much of “enemy” than Muslims… if not more. It seems that some feel Jews are literally the big bad boogy man behind everything. I’ll use the Kanye ideology, lol. Where do you fall?

 

[Irish#1]

A fascinating conversion among some Christian conservatives is that this destruction in 70AD was prophesy fulfilled as it relates to the second coming. Preterist v Futurist. Some of those with the Preterist view think of the Jews as similar as Arabs and a religious and even political foe. I have conservative friends that just think we need to leave the Middle East alone and let them have their holy war. The others that feel obligated to preserve the holy land. It’s quite fascinating the contrasting views of some conservative Christians.

It's funny you post that. I'm a partial preterist myself, believing that many of the events in Revelation were fulfilled during the siege of Jerusalem and that Nero was Anti-Christ.

It’s a very interesting conversation for sure. I think most (if not all) preterists view today as the millinia (I think it’s called) but we are still waiting on the return of Christ… just that most of revelation prophecy is on the back end not the front.

With that thought… a lot of preterists view Jews as much of “enemy” than Muslims… if not more. It seems that some feel Jews are literally the big bad boogy man behind everything. I’ll use the Kanye ideology, lol. Where do you fall?

Okay, we're getting way too deep in the weeds. lol

 

[GATTACA!]

It’s a very interesting conversation for sure. I think most (if not all) preterists view today as the millinia (I think it’s called) but we are still waiting on the return of Christ… just that most of revelation prophecy is on the back end not the front.

With that thought… a lot of preterists view Jews as much of “enemy” than Muslims… if not more. It seems that some feel Jews are literally the big bad boogy man behind everything. I’ll use the Kanye ideology, lol. Where do you fall?

Religion is a scourge.

 

[Sea Turtle]

It’s a very interesting conversation for sure. I think most (if not all) preterists view today as the millinia (I think it’s called) but we are still waiting on the return of Christ… just that most of revelation prophecy is on the back end not the front.

With that thought… a lot of preterists view Jews as much of “enemy” than Muslims… if not more. It seems that some feel Jews are literally the big bad boogy man behind everything. I’ll use the Kanye ideology, lol. Where do you fall?

A full preterist(Christ's second coming occurring in judgement in 66-70AD) would consider this the millennium(1000 year reign of Christ on earth AFTER his return)5.6. I don't believe any other eschatological view holds that belief. Partial Preterism still holds to it being a future event.

The Sanhedrin would have certainly been the boogeyman man to 1st century jewish christians(who Revelation was written for). They would beat and stone them to death. Rome was quite the boogeyman too as they persecuted christians relentlessly.

Christians are not to view Jews or Muslims as enemies at all. Jews are merely a people who rejected the Messiah who was promised and were waiting for and have had their time pass on. Islam actually recognizes Christ as The Great Prophet but denies his death and deity.

Now, where this leads to foreign policy. Most in the Christian Church are Dispensationalist futurists. They believe that the Jews and Israel are still God's people and nation and that Israel will reform(1948), setting the world stage for the events in Revelation and Christ's return. And this is why so many in the US and Europe have always supported Israel. I believe that to be wrong and misguided. Certainly Christ will come again but the church is now True Israel.

 

[Blazers46]

A full preterist(Christ's second coming occurring in judgement in 66-70AD) would consider this the millennium. I don't believe any other eschatological view holds that belief. Partial Preterism still holds to it being a future event.

The Sanhedrin would have certainly been the boogeyman man to 1st century jewish christians(who Revelation was written for). They would beat and stone them to death. Rome was quite the boogeyman too as they persecuted christians relentlessly.

Christians are not to view Jews or Muslims as enemies at all. Jews are merely a people who rejected their Messiah and have had their time pass on. Islam actually recognizes Christ as The Great Prophet but denies his death and deity.

Now, where this leads to foreign policy. Most in the Christian Church are Dispensationalist futurists. They believe that the Jews and Israel are still God's people and nation and that Israel will reform(1948), setting the world stage for the events in Revelation and Christ's return. And this is why so many in the US and Europe have always supported Israel. I believe that to be wrong and misguided. Certainly Christ will come again but the church is now True Israel.

Thanks, that is insightful. I haven’t fully dove into all that because it’s a pretty big mind bender for me… old dog, new tricks sort of thing.

Thanks, I think it impacts foreign policy a lot… but I won’t go too far into the weeds. Lol.

 

[Blazers46]

Religion is a scourge.

Only when you are on the wrong side of it. 😈 🔥 😉

 

[Sea Turtle]

Yikes.

 

[drayer54]

Yikes.

I'm glad someone is figuring out where the hostages are. Tunnels to get in and out of Gaza make sense, but there isn't a whole lot on the Egypt side of the border. It's not like our border. How would Israel know, but not the US? Why would the US know and try to keep the IDF out of Rafah? This administration is a disaster.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I'm glad someone is figuring out where the hostages are. Tunnels to get in and out of Gaza make sense, but there isn't a whole lot on the Egypt side of the border. It's not like our border. How would Israel know, but not the US? Why would the US know and try to keep the IDF out of Rafah? This administration is a disaster.

That's the problem. The US had to know about tunnels if their were FIFTY of them going from Gaza into Egypt. And what's that say about Egypt now?

This Administration is indeed a disaster foreign policy wise.

 

[drayer54]

That's the problem. The US had to know about tunnels if their were FIFTY of them going from Gaza into Egypt. And what's that say about Egypt now?

This Administration is indeed a disaster foreign policy wise.

Prob why they were shoveling gold bars to our Senator from NJ.

 

[IrishLax]

Iran President and Foreign Minister likely dead after trying to fly a helicopter through dense fog.

Do they try to blame Israel?

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[drayer54]

Bob Gates says hello.