For all the whining about our defense

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

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[gkIrish]

Overreacting to Navy is about as pointless as overreacting to the amount of points scored by FSU IMO.

To me, two things are most important about our defense this year going down the stretch:

1. Critical Stops: Can the defense hold a lead in the second half?
2. Turnovers

If the defense is successful in those two areas, we are going to win out. Our offense is good enough to give us leads. Turnovers = more possessions. More possessions = more time for our offense to be on the field.

What bothered me most about the Navy game was the lack of second half success with a lead. Same with FSU...couldn't hold a lead.

 

[dwshade]

Overreacting to Navy is about as pointless as overreacting to the amount of points scored by FSU IMO.

To me, two things are most important about our defense this year going down the stretch:

1. Critical Stops: Can the defense hold a lead in the second half?
2. Turnovers

If the defense is successful in those two areas, we are going to win out. Our offense is good enough to give us leads. Turnovers = more possessions. More possessions = more time for our offense to be on the field.

What bothered me most about the Navy game was the lack of second half success with a lead. Same with FSU...couldn't hold a lead.

We lost Joe Schmidt and had 5 true freshmen running around trying to figure things out on the run. Offense didn't help either when defense twice gave them the ball in Navy territory and twice we failed to score.

 

[GBdomer]

 

[T Town Tommy]

Notre Dame should score easily on ASU. The best QB the Sun Devils faced thus far torched them for 355 yards passing. Even the Colorado QB got them for 300+.

If ND can force the tempo by controlling the lines - and I think they can and will - I fully expect the Irish to win by 10+. If the Sun Devils control the tempo of the game and it turns in to a shootout then all bets are off.

I think the Irish really need the run game to step it up and put EG in plus territory on 2nd and 3rd downs. If they can do that, the Irish walk away with the W and EG goes for some nice yardage in the air. Margin of victory is meaningless against a Top 10-15 ranked team playing at their place. Win and get out of town.

 

[gkIrish]

We lost Joe Schmidt and had 5 true freshmen running around trying to figure things out on the run. Offense didn't help either when defense twice gave them the ball in Navy territory and twice we failed to score.

Losing one player, no matter how valuable, is not an excuse. Your defense should not be so reliant on that one player. If it is, that's on the staff for lack of preparation. There should be another player (mentally) that can step in to the role with minimal drop off.

 

[dwshade]

BTW for all those talking about ASU's explosive offense they do pile up yardage to the tune of 483 yards per game. However in 4 of their last 5 games their point totals have been 27, 26, 24 and 19. They seem to have trouble getting into the end zone.

 

[IrishLax]

BTW for all those talking about ASU's explosive offense they do pile up yardage to the tune of 483 yards per game. However in 4 of their last 5 games their point totals have been 27, 26, 24 and 19. They seem to have trouble getting into the end zone.

Yeah, I've watched a couple, and the issue is that their offense isn't built to move the ball in tight spaces. They can't run it well and everyone knows to cover Strong. And then they have a propensity to take a drive killing negative play at the wrong moment, which also gets them out of their up-tempo.

Reminiscent of ND's red zone woes under Tommy in a lot of respects.

 

[Woneone]

We lost Joe Schmidt and had 5 true freshmen running around trying to figure things out on the run. Offense didn't help either when defense twice gave them the ball in Navy territory and twice we failed to score.

Exactly this.

Does anyone have a break-down who played / class Saturday (maybe throwing in career starts)?

This was not going to be a good game for our young defense. Their speed and aggressiveness got used against them (it's exactly what Navy wants you to do, over-pursue and over-commit).

We're going to have great defensive games like FSU and terrible ones like UNC. But Navy is a different beast.

 

[T Town Tommy]

BTW for all those talking about ASU's explosive offense they do pile up yardage to the tune of 483 yards per game. However in 4 of their last 5 games their point totals have been 27, 26, 24 and 19. They seem to have trouble getting into the end zone.

Their TD % is not too good in the Red Zone. Overall, they are pretty effective at scoring in the Red Zone - top 25 nationally. But yeah... against a team with just as good an offense.... FGs isn't going to win the games.

 

[dwshade]

Losing one player, no matter how valuable, is not an excuse. Your defense should not be so reliant on that one player. If it is, that's on the staff for lack of preparation. There should be another player (mentally) that can step in to the role with minimal drop off.

You're talking about the Mike LB position essentially the QB of the defense. With both Schmidt and Grace out that left us with a true FR. in Morgan. It would be like losing Golson and Zaire and putting in Kizer. We were playing extremely well when Schmidt was in. You just don't put in a true FR. at that position and have no drop off. That's just absurd.

 

[gkIrish]

You're talking about the Mike LB position essentially the QB of the defense. With both Schmidt and Grace out that left us with a true FR. in Morgan. It would be like losing Golson and Zaire and putting in Kizer. We were playing extremely well when Schmidt was in. You just don't put in a true FR. at that position and have no drop off. That's just absurd.

So you think it's okay that the staff went into the Navy game with the following gameplan:

Joe Schmidt is going to run the defense. If he gets hurt, we're screwed.

If that's the case we might not win another game.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I feel like there's more of an issue with how this fanbase handles raised expectations than there is with the defense itself. Coming into this year, nobody thought we would have an elite D. Then we shut out Michigan and held Stanford to 2 scores. All of a sudden people had visions of another shot at the NC. Our D shows some cracks against UNC and people start FREAKING THE FUCK OUT.

This year's been amazing. An insanely young team is playing as well as a Notre Dame team has in a long time. If people can't just sit back and enjoy the ride, it's their loss.

I am worried about ASU and how we handle tempo. I'm sure Coach is on it. Should be a great game. I know this team will compete their asses off, represent the University well, and make me proud to be a fan. I trust when the dust settles they'll be on top.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

I feel like there's more of an issue with how this fanbase handles raised expectations than there is with the defense itself. Coming into this year, nobody thought we would have an elite D. Then we shut out Michigan and held Stanford to 2 scores. All of a sudden people had visions of another shot at the NC. Our D shows some cracks against UNC and people start FREAKING THE FUCK OUT.

This year's been amazing. An insanely young team is playing as well as a Notre Dame team has in a long time. If people can't just sit back and enjoy the ride, it's their loss.

I am worried about ASU and how we handle tempo. I'm sure Coach is on it. Should be a great game. I know this team will compete their asses off, represent the University well, and make me proud to be a fan. I trust when the dust settles they'll be on top.

Reps.

 

[IrishinSyria]

So you think it's okay that the staff went into the Navy game with the following gameplan:

Joe Schmidt is going to run the defense. If he gets hurt, we're screwed.

If that's the case we might not win another game.

TBF, this is a pretty legit criticism. It's crazy to rely on one player to Payton Manning a D for you, especially against Navy where we know for a fact we're going to lose defenders before the game even starts.

 

[dwshade]

So you think it's okay that the staff went into the Navy game with the following gameplan:

Joe Schmidt is going to run the defense. If he gets hurt, we're screwed.

If that's the case we might not win another game.

This is beyond dumb. Not even worthy of a response.

 

[PANDFAN]

Also Golson s turnover issues previous to navy gave the opponents more opportunities to get yardage when the def had just been on the field...they go hand and hand

 

[gkIrish]

This is beyond dumb. Not even worthy of a response.

What's the plan for running the offense when Golson gets hurt? Malik Zaire runs the offense...

What was the plan for when Schmidt gets hurt? Run one play...

That's what happened whether you want to acknowledge it or not. But I'm beyond dumb so I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[T Town Tommy]

What's the plan for running the offense when Golson gets hurt? Malik Zaire runs the offense...

What was the plan for when Schmidt gets hurt? Run one play...

That's what happened whether you want to acknowledge it or not. But I'm beyond dumb so I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Somebody has to make the calls. But I do think having a true Freshman, with limited playing time, having to make the calls for a complex defense against an offense with multiple sets, is going to be able to be as effective as Schmidt? No I don't. Worse case scenerio is BVG has to limit his sets because Morgan's knowledge is not where Schmidt's was. This can lead to ASU taking advantage of some base sets. It should be a huge concern at this point. Not that the defense can't or won't overcome it. And I expect the Irish defense will rise to the occasion. But I also think Morgan's head is gonna hurt this week with all the knowledge they are going to be putting in there.

 

[dwshade]

What's the plan for running the offense when Golson gets hurt? Malik Zaire runs the offense...

What was the plan for when Schmidt gets hurt? Run one play...

That's what happened whether you want to acknowledge it or not. But I'm beyond dumb so I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Zaire is in his 3rd year here. He knows the offense. Morgan has been here 5 minutes and you expect him to run the defense just as Schmidt would?

 

[dwshade]

15 yard penalty?

 

[Luckylucci]

So many hear crucified Diaco for his scheme and performance against Navy yet now it's just an anomaly. Per II, we gave up the most points in regulation to Navy in 88 years, 87 years of games isn't an anomaly. Also, I'm definitely not saying that Navy is the bar for how this defense will perform that's why I went back to UNC. Who is the closest thing to ASU that we've played and we did pretty poor. So, I think being a little cautious makes a tremendous amount of sense. I'm certainly not abandoning ship but 106points given up by the defense in 3 games isn't good. Do not care who you played.

 

[irishfan]

Zaire is in his 3rd year here. He knows the offense. Morgan has been here 5 minutes and you expect him to run the defense just as Schmidt would?

I don't think he's saying Morgan should be able to come in and make all the same calls as Schmidt and get everyone into position like Schmidt. He's saying it's pathetic that our coaches literally had no gameplan for if Schmidt got injured. It's actually unfathomable that one injury lead to our defense being forced to literally go with one call for the entire rest of the game.

 

[gkIrish]

Zaire is in his 3rd year here. He knows the offense. Morgan has been here 5 minutes and you expect him to run the defense just as Schmidt would?

I'm not saying Morgan should have been able to seamlessly run the defense. I'm saying SOMEONE on defense, should have been coached up this season to be able to run the defense in Schmidt's absence with minimal drop off. Would that next player run the defense as well as Schmidt? Of course not. But it shouldn't have been as bad as chickens running around with their heads cut off.

You're lucky Whiskey edited your post before I could see your original, immature response. Otherwise I might have shipped your jabroni butt outta here.

I don't think he's saying Morgan should be able to come in and make all the same calls as Schmidt and get everyone into position like Schmidt. He's saying it's pathetic that our coaches literally had no gameplan for if Schmidt got injured. It's actually unfathomable that one injury lead to our defense being forced to literally go with one call for the entire rest of the game.

This

 

[TheChosen1]

In my opinion it comes down to the 2nd Half Defense.

First 5 teams scored a total of 26 2nd half points.
Last 3 teams scored a total of 60 2nd half points.

Yes I acknowledge the competition changed but in my opinion teams are making 2nd half adjustments to BVG's defense and he isn't countering.

 

[connor_in]

FYI..Zaire is in year 2

 

[kmoose]

I think the Irish really need the run game to step it up and put EG in plus territory on 2nd and 3rd downs.

Look up; your chances of seeing God are better.

It's not that I don't think our running game can be successful. But I do think that this is going to be one of those games where the coaches come into the game thinking that they are going to have to just flat out outscore the other team(as in, in a shootout). And it seems to be Kelly's tendency, to air the ball out in such circumstances. I fully expect ND to come out slinging the rock all over the field. That's my gut feeling, anyway.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Look up; your chances of seeing God are better.

It's not that I don't think our running game can be successful. But I do think that this is going to be one of those games where the coaches come into the game thinking that they are going to have to just flat out outscore the other team(as in, in a shootout). And it seems to be Kelly's tendency, to air the ball out in such circumstances. I fully expect ND to come out slinging the rock all over the field. That's my gut feeling, anyway.

If that's his gameplan then it could be a long night. Against an up tempo offense, and with the recent results of the UNC game, I would think BK would want to take a little different approach. The best way to defend against ASU is to keep their offense on the sidelines. If the Irish go three and out, it is going to put a lot of pressure on their defense... a defense who just lost their play calling MLB. Give me second and mid and third and short, and once ASU has to cheat to the line then let Golson go over the top on them. Les Miles - when he has something that looks like a QB - is the king of this type strategy.

 

[Bluto]

From my perspective the offense in the North Carolina and Navy games (heck even the Florida State game now that I think about it) did not do this very young defense and by extension Brian Vangorder any favors. Against NC the O basically spotted NC 14 points only minutes into the game. With Navy the offense blew every opportunity it had to put the game so far out of reach that it would have forced Navy to completely abandon its game plan. If the O plays a cleaner game against Navy by eliminating that second quarter pick and puts up a TD and a field goal after the defense came up big two series in a row in the fourth quarter I doubt there would be as much hand wringing. Bottom line the defense has been a pleasant surprise and has played (and I think will continue to play) good enough to win every game but this ND team will win or lose based on the O's ability to execute.

 

[dwshade]

I'm not saying Morgan should have been able to seamlessly run the defense. I'm saying SOMEONE on defense, should have been coached up this season to be able to run the defense in Schmidt's absence with minimal drop off. Would that next player run the defense as well as Schmidt? Of course not. But it shouldn't have been as bad as chickens running around with their heads cut off.

You're lucky Whiskey edited your post before I could see your original, immature response. Otherwise I might have shipped your jabroni butt outta here.



This

1. It wasn't immature

2. Mods on sites should have a clue of what they are talking about.

3. Don't come over to 4HL on rivals. You obviously aren't tough enough to handle yourself on a message board. This is kid stuff compared to what we do there.

4. Bye.