Fall Practice Thread

[Whiskeyjack]

Looks like a derp for yourself.

kmoose is apparently not optimistic that Wood will put up big numbers this year. I posted his stats from 2010-- his first year playing and behind a rebuilding OL-- as evidence for why I think the optimism is justified.

To which you responded, "I don't care about numbers, I just want to win." That was definitely a derp response. If you don't care about numbers, don't respond to posts discussing statistics.

You have a dangerous penchant for calling out established posters here considering you haven't managed to contribute a single worthwhile post to this board yet. I'll echo NDinLA's advice to you from earlier in the week-- read more and post less until you're familiar with the board's culture and you have can actually contribute.

 

[kmoose]

Who shat in your cereal this morning?

Wood ran for 603 yards and 5.1 YPC as a RS freshman and only having started 6 games. What kind of numbers do you expect him to put up in 2011?

No one. I'm just tired of reading the hero worship that goes on here, at times. Every guy on our roster is just a step away from being Godzilla on the field. There's a serious lack of objectivity here, at times.

Wood averaged less than 10 carries per game, last year. This year, I would expect him to average at least 15, if not 18 0r 20. He's not the biggest guy, and I think that kind of load may significantly slow him down. Hopefully, I'm wrong. But I'm not blind to the fact that the team has limitations that are worthy of discussion. Being skeptical is not disrespectful. I watch every game, buy new gear each season, even travel from Oregon to either South Bend or California to attend a game each year. I'm not a fair weather or casual fan. And I'm certainly not rooting against the Irish. But that doesn't mean that I can't be skeptical of some of these kids until I see them do it on the field.

 

[NDdomer2]

No one. I'm just tired of reading the hero worship that goes on here, at times. Every guy on our roster is just a step away from being Godzilla on the field. There's a serious lack of objectivity here, at times.

Wood averaged less than 10 carries per game, last year. This year, I would expect him to average at least 15, if not 18 0r 20. He's not the biggest guy, and I think that kind of load may significantly slow him down. Hopefully, I'm wrong. But I'm not blind to the fact that the team has limitations that are worthy of discussion. Being skeptical is not disrespectful. I watch every game, buy new gear each season, even travel from Oregon to either South Bend or California to attend a game each year. I'm not a fair weather or casual fan. And I'm certainly not rooting against the Irish. But that doesn't mean that I can't be skeptical of some of these kids until I see them do it on the field.

This is what I was getting at. Help us win first, then well talk numbers and debate how great they are.

 

[Rocket89]

First off.......Molnar has never coached RBs anywhere else, unless you want to say that he coached RBs at Illinois State, during his stint as Offensive Coordinator. However, his bio lists him as being the O.C./QB/WR coach there, so I doubt he also coached the RBs.

I get that Molnar is high on Wood. I get that Wood is not a bad TB. But, if you want us to believe that Cierre Wood is the next Barry Sanders, or even the next Autry Denson......... forget it.

Oh, I love the hatin' on Cierre Wood, it fires me up!

Statements like this are going to look so stupid in a couple of months that it's not even funny.

It's weird how Notre Dame needs a better running game, how Wood played at a high level last season in his first year, how coaches like Kelly & Molnar are practically drooling to get him back on the field....and there are still fans totally unimpressed.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

No one. I'm just tired of reading the hero worship that goes on here, at times. Every guy on our roster is just a step away from being Godzilla on the field. There's a serious lack of objectivity here, at times.

Bogtrotter expressed some serious optimism about Wood, but to be fair, he didn't predict a Heisman-caliber year out of him. Thus my question regarding your grumpy response.

Wood averaged less than 10 carries per game, last year. This year, I would expect him to average at least 15, if not 18 0r 20. He's not the biggest guy, and I think that kind of load may significantly slow him down. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

This was what I was hoping to elicit. Why do you think Kelly is going to start leaning on Cierre so heavily? His offense isn't designed that way, and unless all three of Cierre's backups prove completely inadequate, I don't see him being asked to carry more than 10-15 times a game. To quote the ndnation article:

At Notre Dame, with a new offensive system, Cierre Wood averaged 5.1 yards a carry last year, the second highest average since 1997.

And that was his first year playing and behind a rebuilding OL. Given a 2nd year in the system and an improved OL, 6+ YPC and 1000+ yards out of Wood wouldn't surprise me at all.

But I'm not blind to the fact that the team has limitations that are worthy of discussion. Being skeptical is not disrespectful. I watch every game, buy new gear each season, even travel from Oregon to either South Bend or California to attend a game each year. I'm not a fair weather or casual fan. And I'm certainly not rooting against the Irish. But that doesn't mean that I can't be skeptical of some of these kids until I see them do it on the field.

I never questioned your dedication as a fan, kmoose. I was just taken aback by your grumpy response to what was a common and pretty tamely optimistic post about Wood.

 

[Rocket89]

No one. I'm just tired of reading the hero worship that goes on here, at times. Every guy on our roster is just a step away from being Godzilla on the field. There's a serious lack of objectivity here, at times.

Wood averaged less than 10 carries per game, last year. This year, I would expect him to average at least 15, if not 18 0r 20. He's not the biggest guy, and I think that kind of load may significantly slow him down. Hopefully, I'm wrong. But I'm not blind to the fact that the team has limitations that are worthy of discussion. Being skeptical is not disrespectful. I watch every game, buy new gear each season, even travel from Oregon to either South Bend or California to attend a game each year. I'm not a fair weather or casual fan. And I'm certainly not rooting against the Irish. But that doesn't mean that I can't be skeptical of some of these kids until I see them do it on the field.

I'm glad you brought up Denson.

First of all, Wood and Denson had nearly identical first year seasons as 19-year olds at Notre Dame.

Seems like a good sign to me.

They both ran the ball 115+ times and both averaged 5.1 YPC. Denson scored 5 more touchdowns on the ground but Wood had 2 scores through the air and 105 more yards receiving.

For the life of me I can't understand why people keep insisting that Wood isn't big enough.

HE'S 2 INCHES TALLER AND 20 POUNDS HEAVIER THAN DENSON WAS.

Seriously, it just sounds like some don't like Wood for some reason. We don't know if he can handle playing an entire season as a starter (just like we didn't know Denson could) but there's zero evidence given his play last year (where he displayed good toughness) and the praise from the coaches, that he's not physically ready to be the featured back.

I can understand being skeptical of Jonas Gray, or John Goodman....but Cierre Wood? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Wood averaged less than 10 carries per game, last year. This year, I would expect him to average at least 15, if not 18 0r 20. He's not the biggest guy, and I think that kind of load may significantly slow him down. .

No major objections at this point, but I'd just like to throw it out there that 6'0 215-218 lbs isnt exactly tiny for a college running back either. He's a fairly well built young man and I think he could handle 20 touches a game for the course of the season.

It seems like more and more people are beginning to treat athletes like they are made of popscicle sticks. You cant hit quarterbacks anymore, pitchers cant throw 250 innings in a season or more than 110 pitches in a game anymore, running backs cant handle more than 10-15 touches a game. No offence to you, but in general this kind of stuff just drives me nuts.

 

[NDIrishlover3]

I'm not sure if anybody is even able to do this, but if there is can they please delete all of the stupid arguing that just took place in this thread and then delete this post so people can actually read about notre dame football like they are supposed to on this thread

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'm not sure if anybody is even able to do this, but if there is can they please delete all of the stupid arguing that just took place in this thread and then delete this post so people can actually read about notre dame football like they are supposed to on this thread

Done. And the poster that got everybody mad has decided to leave the site, citing our intolerance to newbies. That is complete b.s....I feel this site is great to newbies, or at least we attempt to make it so. The mods can't read every single post on every single thread. So by all means, if you see a new poster that is not being welcomed, please let us know.

This particular newbie had a combative style of posting, and people took offense, myself included. Be cool and your voice will be heard and welcomed. It has nothing to do with being new or old. Let this be a lesson to you guys...you mess with Old Man Mike, with some of these posters, the gloves come off! (LOL)

Now back to Irish football...

 

[kmoose]

And the poster that got everybody mad has decided to leave the site, citing our intolerance to newbies.

He obviously wasn't an Irish Envy RKG. We've all got opinions, and some of them are very strong. I'll go toe to toe with anyone, if I think I'm right. But once the debate is over, it's over. Some people can't help but take it personally. That's their right, but it won't get them far, here.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

He obviously wasn't an Irish Envy RKG. We've all got opinions, and some of them are very strong. I'll go toe to toe with anyone, if I think I'm right. But once the debate is over, it's over. Some people can't help but take it personally. That's their right, but it won't get them far, here.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I'm glad you brought up Denson.

First of all, Wood and Denson had nearly identical first year seasons as 19-year olds at Notre Dame.

Seems like a good sign to me.

They both ran the ball 115+ times and both averaged 5.1 YPC. Denson scored 5 more touchdowns on the ground but Wood had 2 scores through the air and 105 more yards receiving.

For the life of me I can't understand why people keep insisting that Wood isn't big enough.

HE'S 2 INCHES TALLER AND 20 POUNDS HEAVIER THAN DENSON WAS.

Seriously, it just sounds like some don't like Wood for some reason. We don't know if he can handle playing an entire season as a starter (just like we didn't know Denson could) but there's zero evidence given his play last year (where he displayed good toughness) and the praise from the coaches, that he's not physically ready to be the featured back.

I can understand being skeptical of Jonas Gray, or John Goodman....but Cierre Wood? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Both Cierre and Jonas have a habit of putting the skin on the carpet... A LOT. I guess people have a right to be a little skeptical.

 

[johnnykillz]

Done. And the poster that got everybody mad has decided to leave the site, citing our intolerance to newbies. That is complete b.s....I feel this site is great to newbies, or at least we attempt to make it so.

Or these guys finally stopped getting their asses kissed.

I liked the guy.

But the *** kissing needs to stop.

I have an intolerance for big ****in' baby(s).

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Both Cierre and Jonas have a habit of putting the skin on the carpet... A LOT. I guess people have a right to be a little skeptical.

Fortunately for us, Cierre was playing his first year of college football under a real coach, and fumblitis is something that can easily be corrected with proper coaching and a focused emphasis on ball security. Exhibit A would be what Tom Coughlin did with Tiki Barber when he took over the Giants.

Jonas can also be coached up, but dead serious I think that kids so jacked that his biceps interfere with him tucking the ball away properly.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
Who shat in your cereal this morning?

Wood ran for 603 yards and 5.1 YPC as a RS freshman and only having started 6 games. What kind of numbers do you expect him to put up in 2011?

No one. I'm just tired of reading the hero worship that goes on here, at times. Every guy on our roster is just a step away from being Godzilla on the field. There's a serious lack of objectivity here, at times.

Sorry I was away for a while. This isn't a case of hero worship run wild. It is an effing circle jerk.

 

[Rocket89]

Both Cierre and Jonas have a habit of putting the skin on the carpet... A LOT. I guess people have a right to be a little skeptical.

Valid concern I suppose, but that wasn't brought up today as to why not be excited about Wood.

Also, is the fumbling REALLY that big of a deal? This is something I've never really understood. For example, Wood coughed the ball up what...4 times last year and lost it once?

Now I know certain football people will say a back should never fumble, but it happens.

I've always thought it's weird that a QB can turn the ball over twice as much, sometimes three times as much, and its never really viewed as a problem like it is with a RB fumbling a few times on 100+ or 200+ carries.

It'll take a lot more fumbles for me to get upset about it or really call it a problem for Wood.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Valid concern I suppose, but that wasn't brought up today as to why not be excited about Wood.

Also, is the fumbling REALLY that big of a deal? This is something I've never really understood. For example, Wood coughed the ball up what...4 times last year and lost it once?

Now I know certain football people will say a back should never fumble, but it happens.

I've always thought it's weird that a QB can turn the ball over twice as much, sometimes three times as much, and its never really viewed as a problem like it is with a RB fumbling a few times on 100+ or 200+ carries.

It'll take a lot more fumbles for me to get upset about it or really call it a problem for Wood.

Hell yes it's a big deal... That's his number one job. Secure the ball.

 

[military_irish]

Hell yes it's a big deal... That's his number one job. Secure the ball.

Just to add 2 cents and to piggy back off of Rocket's comment. The QB's number one job is to not throw picks, but they do. It also is the job of DBs to get interceptions and the whole defense to cause fumbles. It happens.

 

[Rocket89]

Hell yes it's a big deal... That's his number one job. Secure the ball.

Oh.

So, it's not to run for yards and score touchdowns? Heck, why not just hand the ball to Wood and have him immediately fall down. Tremendous ball security then.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Oh.

So, it's not to run for yards and score touchdowns? Heck, why not just hand the ball to Wood and have him immediately fall down. Tremendous ball security then.

I said it was his first job...not his only job. Are you serious with this???

 

[chgocub23]

Hold on i'm getting my popcorn ready for this!!!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

And in this corner . . .

Common guys this can only become about ego. Take a minute, read through the Miami thread and have a laugh or a cry. Then come back. Things will look different. Let us just watch Wood in three weeks, how many yards and how many fumbles. If fumbles were still a problem in practice, you would have heard it. And for the record, with Kelly, any fumble is a major occurrence, unless it is against SC and you fumble on your own two . . .

 

[Rocket89]

I said it was his first job...not his only job. Are you serious with this???

Dead serious.

Hypothetical:

Let's say Wood has the same fumbling "problems" this year. As far as I remember it was 4 balls on the ground with one lost, maybe he lost two at most. I believe his only fumble was the swing pass he caught against BC and caught it awkwardly against his shoulder and then got hit and the ball was jarred out.

So let's say Wood runs for ~1,200 yards in 2011 with those same fumbling numbers. Are we really going to complain about him turning the ball over a couple times over an entire season??

I guess that's my point....you don't ever want your back to fumble but losing a couple a season seems fairly normal. I still think there's an abnormal amount of criticism put on running backs who turn the ball over far less than QB's.

 

[D-BOE34]

I said it was his first job...not his only job. Are you serious with this???

I feel like you both are about to make very good points in a battle that will involve who can **** farther ... but on a forum its not gunna happen.

Fumbles come in a less number to the carries so when it happens its huge! INT, well they happen a lot more often so it doesn't always come s a surprise. If you are playing a good secondary with a bad QB it is expected. When is the last time you heard the big stat before a game be, " Well so and so defense has stripped the ball 26 times this season and recovered 26 balls!" ??

You do hear," So and so defense has 12 INT on the season."

32.6% of the kickoffs in NFL have been touchbacks, which is double last year. To me 99.9% of them are touchbacks! Its the way a stat is brought forth that makes it bigger than the others IMHO.


We can all agree, fumble .... fail! Throw INT .... FAIL!

I'll take 4 fumbles with 1500 yards and 22 TD's from C. Wood. Or, I will take 12 INT thrown by Dayne with 45 TD's to match his 3800 yard season!!!


GO IRISH!

 

[BeauBenken]

Dead serious.

Don't seriously start an argument on this. It's stupid.

Yes, he must score TDs and rush for big yards.

He can't just put the team in jeopardy with fumbles that provide the opposition with great field position or a defensive TD though.

Note: I didn't read this big *** post of yours so maybe you mentioned what I just did. I just read the "Dead serious" part and this is a stupid argument. End of discussion.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Dead serious.

Hypothetical:

Let's say Wood has the same fumbling "problems" this year. As far as I remember it was 4 balls on the ground with one lost, maybe he lost two at most. I believe his only fumble was the swing pass he caught against BC and caught it awkwardly against his shoulder and then got hit and the ball was jarred out.

So let's say Wood runs for ~1,200 yards in 2011 with those same fumbling numbers. Are we really going to complain about him turning the ball over a couple times over an entire season??

I guess that's my point....you don't ever want your back to fumble but losing a couple a season seems fairly normal. I still think there's an abnormal amount of criticism put on running backs who turn the ball over far less than QB's.

I feel like you both are about to make very good points in a battle that will involve who can **** farther ... but on a forum its not gunna happen.

Fumbles come in a less number to the carries so when it happens its huge! INT, well they happen a lot more often so it doesn't always come s a surprise. If you are playing a good secondary with a bad QB it is expected. When is the last time you heard the big stat before a game be, " Well so and so defense has stripped the ball 26 times this season and recovered 26 balls!" ??

You do hear," So and so defense has 12 INT on the season."

32.6% of the kickoffs in NFL have been touchbacks, which is double last year. To me 99.9% of them are touchbacks! Its the way a stat is brought forth that makes it bigger than the others IMHO.


We can all agree, fumble .... fail! Throw INT .... FAIL!

I'll take 4 fumbles with 1500 yards and 22 TD's from C. Wood. Or, I will take 12 INT thrown by Dayne with 45 TD's to match his 3800 yard season!!!


GO IRISH!

Don't seriously start an argument on this. It's stupid.

Yes, he must score TDs and rush for big yards.

He can't just put the team in jeopardy with fumbles that provide the opposition with great field position or a defensive TD though.

Note: I didn't read this big *** post of yours so maybe you mentioned what I just did. I just read the "Dead serious" part and this is a stupid argument. End of discussion.

yeah... I'm about done with this. EOM

 

[Rocket89]

Don't seriously start an argument on this. It's stupid.

Yes, he must score TDs and rush for big yards.

He can't just put the team in jeopardy with fumbles that provide the opposition with great field position or a defensive TD though.

Note: I didn't read this big *** post of yours so maybe you mentioned what I just did. I just read the "Dead serious" part and this is a stupid argument. End of discussion.

What's wrong with arguing? I'm not being dead serious that was sarcasm, as was the previous post about Wood falling down so he doesn't fumble.

I simply think the fumbling issues with Wood (while a small problem) are overblown, as they are with many RB's.

Stiffen up people, we're supposed to argue about football topic on this message board.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Actually, this has all been quite civil.

 

[BeauBenken]

What's wrong with arguing? I'm not being dead serious that was sarcasm, as was the previous post about Wood falling down so he doesn't fumble.

I simply think the fumbling issues with Wood (while a small problem) are overblown, as they are with many RB's.

Stiffen up people, we're supposed to argue about football topic on this message board.

Lol sorry, I didn't want it to sound like I was taking this very seriously, but I'm getting tired of all the arguing on the board. Especially when it comes down to something as stupid as how important ball security is.

And turnovers are never good, but here's a turnover conversation that would make more sense to me to argue about...what is worse, a fumble or interception?

I honestly think interceptions can be taken more lightly because it's often a sign of aggressive play by the QB where big risk comes with big reward. Where as fumbling can usually be prevented without affecting the runner's ability to make the big play.

Actually, this has all been quite civil.

Once again, it wasn't about civility. Just that I think to myself, can someone honestly argue fumbles aren't that bad? Or can someone argue that 2.7 ypc would be okay as long as the runner doesn't fumble?

Sorry guys, I'm just ready for some damn football...lol

 

[military_irish]

The way I see it, fumbles, interceptions, being sacked, and injuries all suck but it is a part of the game. EVERYONE, even the greatest of all time commit these mistakes. Hope for the best but prepare for the worse.