Everything Soccer

[NorthDakota]

I’m at the airport, waiting for my flight to Germany and wearing my Pulisic shirt. If we win I plan on asking every German I talk to, “when is your next World Cup game?” And acting ignorant when they tell me they’ve been eliminated. “Really? I thought Germany was good at soccer?”

They've been struggling for so long now I don't know if it will have the desired effect.

If it was 2018 and they were the defending champ it would cut very deep lol

 

[TorontoGold]

They've been struggling for so long now I don't know if it will have the desired effect.

If it was 2018 and they were the defending champ it would cut very deep lol

NEVER discount the European mind of holding a grudge.

 

[NorthDakota]

NEVER discount the European mind of holding a grudge.

When you live in an open air museum and all you have left is old grudges i suppose that is to be expected.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Regional middle tier clubs run anywhere from $1500-$6000 a year per player. Elite leagues start at $6000 and go up to $15,000. My 11 year old daughter's club is ECNL now, so the price is going up. Just for her to play. When we have to go all the way to fucking Maryland for a tournament, that's coming out of our pockets too.

This is not a question of America's population and getting more kids to participate. This is not sustainable because with these costs, a good amount of kids are not even going to bother because their parents can't afford it.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Capitalism drives youth sports in all sports. Programs are out to make a buck as much as they are to develop kids. Until you fix that, nothing changes…and I’m not sure how you go about that.

Follow the hockey model.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I’m at the airport, waiting for my flight to Germany and wearing my Pulisic shirt. If we win I plan on asking every German I talk to, “when is your next World Cup game?” And acting ignorant when they tell me they’ve been eliminated. “Really? I thought Germany was good at soccer?”

Call it the Soccer Bowl.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Regional middle tier clubs run anywhere from $1500-$6000 a year per player. Elite leagues start at $6000 and go up to $15,000. My 11 year old daughter's club is ECNL now, so the price is going up. Just for her to play. When we have to go all the way to fucking Maryland for a tournament, that's coming out of our pockets too.

This is not a question of America's population and getting more kids to participate. This is not sustainable because with these costs, a good amount of kids are not even going to bother because their parents can't afford it.

Somewhat of an undervalued point to the bolded is that with these expensive travel leagues comes a massive sense of entitlement....from the parents. A lot of these parents are funding these youth sports for the wrong reasons leading to all sorts of toxicity in the sport. Recent real-world example is my friend's son losing his starting position (that he earned on merit) to a new kid who got the starting position (worse in all statistical categories) because his rich parents made a substantial donation to the school. My friend's son was even bullied leading up to the eventual switch. However, when the rich kid inevitably started being a liability on the field and has his starting spot revoked, the parents became enraged and became a cancer to the entire team, including the boys, coaches, and other parents. This, sadly, is the new normal. It's not an outlier and apparently extremely common these days.

So to the bolded, kids who's families actually can afford it, have to deal with levels of bullshit that make it unbearable, further alienating more and more potential participation. People (like me) just flat out refuse to be around that culture and nudge my kid into other activities.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Regional middle tier clubs run anywhere from $1500-$6000 a year per player. Elite leagues start at $6000 and go up to $15,000. My 11 year old daughter's club is ECNL now, so the price is going up. Just for her to play. When we have to go all the way to fucking Maryland for a tournament, that's coming out of our pockets too.

This is not a question of America's population and getting more kids to participate. This is not sustainable because with these costs, a good amount of kids are not even going to bother because their parents can't afford it.

We have the MLS camps that fund about 4000 athletes. We need to expand that number and think we will. The MLS is smartly investing in these because they get good players in their system they can sell them to big clubs. The USA is trying, just need to make it easier for access.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Somewhat of an undervalued point to the bolded is that with these expensive travel leagues comes a massive sense of entitlement....from the parents. A lot of these parents are funding these youth sports for the wrong reasons leading to all sorts of toxicity in the sport. Recent real-world example is my friend's son losing his position (that he earned on merit) to a new kid who got the starting position (worse in all statistical categories) because his rich parents made a substantial donation to the school. When the rich kid inevitably started being a liability on the field and has his starting spot revoked, the parents became enraged and became a cancer to the entire team, including the boys, coaches, and other parents. This, sadly, is the new normal. It's not an outlier and apparently extremely common these days.

So to the bolded, kids who's families actually can afford it, have to deal with levels of bullshit that make it unbearable, further alienating more and more potential participation. People (like me) just flat out refuse to be around that culture and nudge my kid into other activities.

I'm seeing it first hand in 10 year old girls club soccer in the Chicago suburbs. My wife and I sit down by the corner flag during games away from the core group of parents. These people aren't wealthy, they're obnoxious. The way they treat referees, kids on the other team, etc. They don't discriminate. They're just assholes. They weren't very welcoming when we first came into the club two years ago and thankfully that was the case. We've distanced ourselves from it for a reason.

The club we were with prior had more people with money and had parents that gave money to the club. They got to act just about how they wanted until it became too toxic and the reigns had to get tightened a bit.

I've seen a lot but I know I have not seen it all.

 

[Bane]

Man,

We have European’s that already hate us now really hating us. Reading through some serious hate on X is fun.

The American National team has become like Notre Dame football.

I pull for ND football, the Vegas Golden Knights, and the USMNT, what does this say about my personality?

 

[Bane]

More pressure from who? The Europeans who hate us anyway and were cheering for Belgium regardless?

I also love people saying "well now that this happened any run they have will be tainted going forward" as if there aren't other players in this tournament with suspended red cards or as if Argentina doesn't gleefully reference the hand of God every chance they get.

Also as if *FIFA* of all institutions is some previously sacrosanct, beacon of integrity and justice. "Oh no, the integrity of international football is at stake!" Please spare me.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

I pull for ND football, the Vegas Golden Knights, and the USMNT, what does this say about my personality?

Well, as an Arizonian I love your list... I watch the Knights a ton. So with that in mind it makes you an amazing person and obviously a saint of a human

 

[IrishLax]

I'm seeing it first hand in 10 year old girls club soccer in the Chicago suburbs. My wife and I sit down by the corner flag during games away from the core group of parents. These people aren't wealthy, they're obnoxious. The way they treat referees, kids on the other team, etc. They don't discriminate. They're just assholes. They weren't very welcoming when we first came into the club two years ago and thankfully that was the case. We've distanced ourselves from it for a reason.

The club we were with prior had more people with money and had parents that gave money to the club. They got to act just about how they wanted until it became too toxic and the reigns had to get tightened a bit.

I've seen a lot but I know I have not seen it all.

All club sports are so toxic. The problem is the incentive structures don't actually align with what is best for athletes/kids. If you win == people want to join your club == $$. So all the emphasis has to go towards winning, and then all the parents feel "owed" something because of the check that they cut.

I'll see if I can find the video on it, but Landon Donovan talking recently about his son's experience with club soccer was poignant.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

All club sports are so toxic. The problem is the incentive structures don't actually align with what is best for athletes/kids. If you win == people want to join your club == $$. So all the emphasis has to go towards winning, and then all the parents feel "owed" something because of the check that they cut.

I'll see if I can find the video on it, but Landon Donovan talking recently about his son's experience with club soccer was poignant.

I played club soccer.. The system sucked and makes baseball look healthy. But that was 30 years ago.

 

[pumpdog20]

All true (says this dad of an high school/club soccer player). It’s a mess. And soccer will never in our lifetime overtake football or basketball in American hearts and minds.

But a deep US run in this World Cup probably is the sort of thing that could accelerate the process of the US finding/developing the 20 world-class soccer players they need to jump into the ranks of the superpowers. And so yeah of course Belgium (and all the other smaller, aging, European countries especially) is scared of that.

Hopefully in no lifetimes.

 

[stlnd01]

We have the MLS camps that fund about 4000 athletes. We need to expand that number and think we will. The MLS is smartly investing in these because they get good players in their system they can sell them to big clubs. The USA is trying, just need to make it easier for access.

The MLS academy programs are good and largely free. But there's a huge pyramid of pay-to-play clubs beneath them that you pretty much have to navigate on your own to have any shot of making those. Not many kids are going straight from like town rec league soccer to an MLS academy. Though I suppose maybe kids with the raw talent to ultimately make the national team might.

 

[NDRock]

I'm seeing it first hand in 10 year old girls club soccer in the Chicago suburbs. My wife and I sit down by the corner flag during games away from the core group of parents. These people aren't wealthy, they're obnoxious. The way they treat referees, kids on the other team, etc. They don't discriminate. They're just assholes. They weren't very welcoming when we first came into the club two years ago and thankfully that was the case. We've distanced ourselves from it for a reason.

The club we were with prior had more people with money and had parents that gave money to the club. They got to act just about how they wanted until it became too toxic and the reigns had to get tightened a bit.

I've seen a lot but I know I have not seen it all.

That’s rough. My daughter played club soccer and ultimately college soccer (got most of the money spent back in scholarships) but we never had that experience. Some whiny parents, for sure, and lots of time and money spent. All in all, it was a good experience but the entire system really needs an overhaul.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I'm just saying I'd be interested to see what would happen if we had a few thousand more of our best athletes at the youth level focus exclusively on soccer, eve rec leagues. I don't know about soccer, but most other sports have club teams where kids are on "scholarship" because they help the club win, which brings in more paying families.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

The MLS academy programs are good and largely free. But there's a huge pyramid of pay-to-play clubs beneath them that you pretty much have to navigate on your own to have any shot of making those. Not many kids are going straight from like town rec league soccer to an MLS academy. Though I suppose maybe kids with the raw talent to ultimately make the national team might.

The top will make it to the freebee. The issue is you are missing a ton of potential talent. Some kids will be missed. They need to overhaul the cost structure. It is stupid. When I played club 30 years back it cost a ton. My son played it also and the cost was stupid and rising.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Man, the prices y'all are throwing out are crazy. I did not expect that. I just looked up what it is down here. For ECNL it's $2000-$3500/year for fees and another $1000-$3000 for travel. That's the highest level. Premier level is about 1/2 that. Academy is $500/year and $50-$150 per tournament. Limited travel.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

All club sports are so toxic. The problem is the incentive structures don't actually align with what is best for athletes/kids. If you win == people want to join your club == $$. So all the emphasis has to go towards winning, and then all the parents feel "owed" something because of the check that they cut.

I'll see if I can find the video on it, but Landon Donovan talking recently about his son's experience with club soccer was poignant.

Landon has been very outspoken about it lately. Greg Olsen talks a ton about youth sports as well.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

I'm just saying I'd be interested to see what would happen if we had a few thousand more of our best athletes at the youth level focus exclusively on soccer, eve rec leagues. I don't know about soccer, but most other sports have club teams where kids are on "scholarship" because they help the club win, which brings in more paying families.

We would be damn good.. I think we're edging up to it, just need to figure how to increase access.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Academies in England are around the same prices or more per AI.

 

[Bane]

I agree with the take that we don't need Brazilian levels of obsession with soccer in order to take the leap, we just need soccer to become more engrained in American cultural so that we get at least some of our very top talent into soccer. I understand what you guys are saying about youth development, but imo the biggest barrier is the lack of a truly top flight domestic league. All youth sports in America are expensive now, but parents and kids are willing to make the sacrifice to try to get to MLB or the NFL because the prestige and financial rewards are there. I understand that European leagues will pay top dollar, but I think the vast majority of Americans who have the talent want to make it big in a sport where they can play here in the US.

If nothing else, it limits interest in soccer because as soon as this tournament ends if Americans want to follow along with the overwhelming majority of players who played in the WC, they will have to try and access a foreign league.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Academies in England are around the same prices or more per AI.

Yep, they are a lot a like just have more access it seems and not as spread out...

The division between free professional pathways and paid independent options mirrors how things work in America:

• The Professional Pathway (MLS Academies vs. Premier League Academies): In the US, official Major League Soccer (MLS) academies are completely free ("fully funded") for selected players. Premier League academies operate the exact same way. In both countries, the pro clubs cover all costs because they treat players as long-term investments.
• The Paid Independent Market (Club/Travel Soccer vs. UK Private Academies): In the US, if you play for a local non-MLS club or "travel team," you must pay thousands of dollars in club fees, tournament fees, and travel expenses (often called "pay-to-play"). In the UK, non-affiliated private academies, development soccer schools, and commercial training camps operate under the exact same pay-to-play model.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I'll take this opportunity to plug one of my favorite ideas from Arthur Brooks on living a meaningful, happy life: Use things. Love people. Worship God. It's a simple principle, but it stands in sharp contrast to today's culture, which encourages us to love money and success, use people for personal gain, and ultimately worship ourselves.

For our family, we enjoy sports, but sports are just a tool. They fit on the bottom rung of our happiness ladder. The minute they encroach on our quality of life as a family, they get chopped off. Pretty simple rule we live by in our household that helps to keep priorities in check.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Different topic, but can we stop pretending that these chants are so creative and amazing. "You can shove your fucking tacos up your ass!" to the tune of She'll Be Coming Around The Mountain is not creative genius. Why does everyone act like these things are so great?

 

[greyhammer90]

Who would we rather play if we get through Belgium? Spain looks better overall to me so far, but I don't know matchups if we were to play.