Environmental Issues

[Bluto]

I would have done geothermal but it was impractical in our area. I know climate is a hoax b/c geothermal would be the standard and heavily subsidized if we were serious about reducing carbon footprints.

My understanding is you can't disconnect from the utility and have to shut yours down when power is down so you aren't backfilling the grid when it is worked on. There was a case in Florida a number of years ago where the guy wanted to disconnect and the town insisted on condemning the house if it was not hooked up to the power grid. Totally defeats the most important use case IMO - power when the grid is down. Just the process of a power diverter for generator use is a massive PIA. Cities really promote dependency. It is not cost effective on its own and without disaster planning to validate the cost I just don't get it.

I could get behind an EV for local use but refuse the concept for longer distances. I am thinking of putting a fake plug on my truck so I can park in the EV spots all over town. Rare earth metals mined by 6 year olds aside - lots of nice luxury, performance vehicles are EV only. Been a number of fires at the beach from EVs not playing well with the salty sea spray air.

You can’t “disconnect” completely like you said, but say a power outage or during peak rate times (5-9 pm where I live) you can switch your system to using the batteries only. Pretty common set up/software that installers out here do all the time.

Maybe the use of the phrase “off grid” is inaccurate in this case?

Anyhow, if the system is designed correctly you’ll never pay for power per se. In my specific case I think there will still be a small monthly charge for the meter just being there albeit running backwards so to speak which I believe I receive a credit for and we would definitely still have power during an outage.

I’ve never personally seen an EV on fire but have seen a number of vehicles with internal combustion engines in flames (insert libtard run city joke here).

 

[Blazers46]

You can’t “disconnect” completely like you said, but during a say power outage or during peak rate times (5-9 pm where I live) you can switch your system to using the batteries only. Pretty common set up/software that installers out here do all the time.

Maybe the use of the phrase “off grid” is inaccurate in this case?

Anyhow, if the system is designed correctly you’ll never pay for power per se. In my specific case I think there will still be a small monthly charge for the meter just being there albeit running backwards so to speak and we would definitely still have power during an outage.

I’ve never personally seen an EV on fire but have seen a number of vehicles with internal combustion engines in flames (insert libtard run city joke here).

What do you think your overall investment has been? And then how much of that did you get back in credits/rebates?

 

[Bluto]

What do you think your overall investment has been? And then how much of that did you get back in credits/rebates?

My wife handles the books lol, so this is all kinda off the top of my head.

For the solar 45k. Got back 25k. So 20k out of pocket. That’s all paid off.

Cars, 40k for the Kia minus 10k for trade in and 7500 tax credit. So like 23k out of pocket/financed (that car is paid off). Has 90k miles and has original break pads and have had zero mechanical issues. So just routine maintenance up to this point.

New Chevy 45k minus 7500 tax credit. So, about 38k for that.

Chargers were free, had an existing panel in garage with capacity so I wired those myself.

When I had an F150 I was paying about $200 a week for gas. When I had a Prius about $100. My wife about the same when she had a gas vehicle.

She also has her own business so she writes off vehicle expenses. Not sure to what extent though. More importantly, it is now basically impossible for her to drive her vehicle without the proper fluids in it. Huge cost savings right there. Lol.

 

[Blazers46]

My wife handles the books lol, so this is all kinda off the top of my head.

For the solar 45k. Got back 25k. So 20k out of pocket. That’s all paid off.

Cars, 40k for the Kia minus 10k for trade in and 7500 tax credit. So like 23k out of pocket/financed (that car is paid off). Has 90k miles and has original break pads and have had zero mechanical issues. So just routine maintenance up to this point.

New Chevy 45k minus 7500 tax credit. So, about 38k for that.

Chargers were free, had an existing panel in garage with capacity so I wired those myself.

When I had an F150 I was paying about $200 a week for gas. When I had a Prius about $100. My wife about the same when she had a gas vehicle.

She also has her own business so she writes off vehicle expenses. Not sure to what extent though. More importantly, it is now basically impossible for her to drive her vehicle without the proper fluids in it. Huge cost savings right there. Lol.

Any costs associated with the charge (energy bill or other) or any other maintenance costs/fees?

 

[Bluto]

Any costs associated with the charge (energy bill or other) or any other maintenance costs/fees?

Maintenance for the solar?

None really. We pay some kid who went to school with mine $100 or so to clean them once of twice a year. Takes him about 2 hours.

A full charge at a charge point station runs about $25. Doesn’t cost anything when I’m charging at home because of solar.

Maintenance on the cars? About $100 4 times or so a year for regularly scheduled maintenance. Mostly just safety inspection stuff related to tires, brake pads and what not.

 

[ulukinatme]

I heard the replacement batteries for those EVs aren't too cheap. What are they currently running?

 

[Bluto]

I heard the replacement batteries for those EVs aren't too cheap. What are they currently running?

Wouldn’t know. Have not had to replace it and probably won’t need to.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/ev-battery-lifespan-degradation-replacement-cost-study/

“according to new research that shows modern EV batteries are likely to last 20 years—or more—before needing to be replaced.”

 

[ulukinatme]

Wouldn’t know. Have not had to replace it and probably won’t need to.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/ev-battery-lifespan-degradation-replacement-cost-study/

“according to new research that shows modern EV batteries are likely to last 20 years—or more—before needing to be replaced.”

That's for the very best ones that have only degraded 1.0% battery life over the course of the year. The average one is degrading 1.8% per year, which is an improvement from the 2.3% they used to do. So you're looking at 10 years before you have to replace the battery, which ranges from $5,000-$20,000. You're still having to contend with a lack of charging areas, charging times for road trips, etc.

 

[Bluto]

That's for the very best ones that have only degraded 1.0% battery life over the course of the year. The average one is degrading 1.8% per year, which is an improvement from the 2.3% they used to do. So you're looking at 10 years before you have to replace the battery, which ranges from $5,000-$20,000. You're still having to contend with a lack of charging areas, charging times for road trips, etc.

Ok sure.

Not only are you a Cracker Jack virologist but an electrical engineer to boot.

That’s amazing honestly.

The closing from the above article

“And more importantly, its battery is almost certain to last as long as you own the vehicle. Even those considering buying used can breathe a little easier knowing the battery is likely to last until the vehicle is at least 20 years old before needing to be replaced.”

 

[ulukinatme]

Ok sure.

Not only are you a Cracker Jack virologist but an electrical engineer to boot.

That’s amazing honestly.

The closing from the above article

“And more importantly, its battery is almost certain to last as long as you own the vehicle. Even those considering buying used can breathe a little easier knowing the battery is likely to last until the vehicle is at least 20 years old before needing to be replaced.”

Na, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. I literally just pulled all that straight from the article you posted, other than the replacement costs of the batteries which was provided by Google.

Read it again. EV batteries are considered "done" when they reach 80% life according to the article. If the average modern battery is giving up almost 2.0% life each year...how long before the battery is done? How many times does 2 go into 20? 10 years, not 20. This is basic math, my man.

Sure, the battery may last you the entire time you own the vehicle, but you're generally paying more for an EV too, especially those top end ones. There's more incentive to hold onto the vehicle longer because you're paying extra. That's also assuming you're buying the vehicle new, there's going to be a lot of owners buying those cars used and they will be the ones to replace the battery.

 

[Giddyup]

Who owns Antarctica? That might be the money play once the earth gets out of an ice age. Climate change is the dumbest misnomer, global warming was too specific. Climate has been changing from the start.

Not to say sending fumes into our atmosphere can’t be a problem but our country at least tries, the others won’t adhere.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Ok sure.

Not only are you a Cracker Jack virologist but an electrical engineer to boot.

That’s amazing honestly.

The closing from the above article

“And more importantly, its battery is almost certain to last as long as you own the vehicle. Even those considering buying used can breathe a little easier knowing the battery is likely to last until the vehicle is at least 20 years old before needing to be replaced.”

Do we really need to explain to you the error in this approach? Attacking the speaker is a poor substitute for refuting the speaker's point or facts. Google says his numbers are correct. Refute them if they're not.

I'm curious as to what you think about the environmental impact of mining all the lithium for the batteries, manufacturing them, the disposal or recycling of them when they're spent, and just how net clean EV vehicles are considering how most of the electricity for them is generated. When you take all those things into account instead of just saying, "Look! No oil!" you don't seem to be much cleaner. In fact, you may be a lot less clean and are doing more harm to the environment.

 

[Bluto]

Do we really need to explain to you the error in this approach? Attacking the speaker is a poor substitute for refuting the speaker's point or facts. Google says his numbers are correct. Refute them if they're not.

I'm curious as to what you think about the environmental impact of mining all the lithium for the batteries, manufacturing them, the disposal or recycling of them when they're spent, and just how net clean EV vehicles are considering how most of the electricity for them is generated. When you take all those things into account instead of just saying, "Look! No oil!" you don't seem to be much cleaner. In fact, you may be a lot less clean and are doing more harm to the environment.

Ok sure.

You’re an aces historian and you environmental engineer!/climate scientist!

Motortrend is fake news libtard propaganda!

Cool!

 

[Bluto]

Na, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. I literally just pulled all that straight from the article you posted, other than the replacement costs of the batteries which was provided by Google.

Read it again. EV batteries are considered "done" when they reach 80% life according to the article. If the average modern battery is giving up almost 2.0% life each year...how long before the battery is done? How many times does 2 go into 20? 10 years, not 20. This is basic math, my man.

Sure, the battery may last you the entire time you own the vehicle, but you're generally paying more for an EV too, especially those top end ones. There's more incentive to hold onto the vehicle longer because you're paying extra. That's also assuming you're buying the vehicle new, there's going to be a lot of owners buying those cars used and they will be the ones to replace the battery.

Mathematician too? That’s Crazy!

Read it again? Ok.

“And more importantly, its battery is almost certain to last as long as you own the vehicle. Even those considering buying used can breathe a little easier knowing the battery is likely to last until the vehicle is at least 20 years old before needing to be replaced.”

I have never owned a vehicle for 20 years. So, yeah. Worried, not worried.

 

[ulukinatme]

Mathematician too? That’s Crazy!

Read it again? Ok.

“And more importantly, its battery is almost certain to last as long as you own the vehicle. Even those considering buying used can breathe a little easier knowing the battery is likely to last until the vehicle is at least 20 years old before needing to be replaced.”

I have never owned a vehicle for 20 years. So, yeah. Worried, not worried.

You're really, really bad at this...and your reading comprehension is worse. It was mentioned only the top of the line EVs are getting that 1% degradation that will allow them to hit 20 years.

You're either missing this section, or you're doubling down for your own reasons:

The data shows the average EV battery studied degraded by just 1.8 percent per year, which is an improvement from five years ago when the average degradation was 2.3 percent per year. The best-performing EVs in the new study degraded at just 1.0 percent per year.

Only the very top of the line models are getting that 1%, most of the new ones are giving up almost 2% a year. So, no, if the battery is considered done at 80% life then you're not getting 20 years out of most EVs. If you spend a shit ton and buy a brand new EV then there probably is a good chance if you get rid of it after 10 years that you won't need to replace the battery, and that's nice. The same won't be true for people buying them used, and then they're looking at $5k-$20K replacement cost.

 

[Bluto]

You're really, really bad at this...and your reading comprehension is worse. It was mentioned only the top of the line EVs are getting that 1% degradation that will allow them to hit 20 years.

You're either missing this section, or you're doubling down for your own reasons:


Only the very top of the line models are getting that 1%, most of the new ones are giving up almost 2% a year. So, no, if the battery is considered done at 80% life then you're not getting 20 years out of most EVs. If you spend a shit ton and buy a brand new EV then there probably is a good chance if you get rid of it after 10 years that you won't need to replace the battery, and that's nice. The same won't be true for people buying them used, and then they're looking at $5k-$20K replacement cost.

Sure. The summation of that article again is:

“And more importantly, its battery is almost certain to last as long as you own the vehicle. Even those considering buying used can breathe a little easier knowing the battery is likely to last until the vehicle is at least 20 years old before needing to be replaced”

So, if somebody buys a used 2019 EV it will likely last until 2039. I mean what the fuck is so complicated about this that makes it so hard for you to understand?

Nobody is spending a “shit ton” on an electric vehicle when compared to similar internal combustion engine vehicles.

 

[Bluto]

Do we really need to explain to you the error in this approach? Attacking the speaker is a poor substitute for refuting the speaker's point or facts. Google says his numbers are correct. Refute them if they're not.

I'm curious as to what you think about the environmental impact of mining all the lithium for the batteries, manufacturing them, the disposal or recycling of them when they're spent, and just how net clean EV vehicles are considering how most of the electricity for them is generated. When you take all those things into account instead of just saying, "Look! No oil!" you don't seem to be much cleaner. In fact, you may be a lot less clean and are doing more harm to the environment.

Cool!

Let’s take the pollution challenge. I’ll leave my EV turned on in my garage and spend the night in there if you agree to stay the night in your garage with a car that has a diesel engine running all night.

Deal?

 

[drayer54]

Cool!

Let’s take the pollution challenge. I’ll leave my EV turned on in my garage and spend the night in there if you agree to stay the night in your garage with a car that has a diesel engine running all night.

Deal?

I feel like this needs a community note.

 

[RDU Irish]

Cool!

Let’s take the pollution challenge. I’ll leave my EV turned on in my garage and spend the night in there if you agree to stay the night in your garage with a car that has a diesel engine running all night.

Deal?

I will offer that recycling of batteries after degradation reduces the ecological impact as materials are reused, not thrown away. This isn't the case for windmills and solar panels that are a disaster to dispose of.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I feel like this needs a community note.

Shhhhhh! When I have time later today I'll address this. Let him enjoy his moment until then.

 

[Irish#1]

 

[ulukinatme]

Sure. The summation of that article again is:

“And more importantly, its battery is almost certain to last as long as you own the vehicle. Even those considering buying used can breathe a little easier knowing the battery is likely to last until the vehicle is at least 20 years old before needing to be replaced”

So, if somebody buys a used 2019 EV it will likely last until 2039. I mean what the fuck is so complicated about this that makes it so hard for you to understand?

Nobody is spending a “shit ton” on an electric vehicle when compared to similar internal combustion engine vehicles.

Yeah, they mentioned at the end of the article that the battery could last 20 years AFTER they already established that only the very elite EV batteries were going 20 years. Unless that 2019 EV you bought is a Tesla or one of those Lucid Air type vehicles with liquid cooling for the battery, it's likely not going 20 years.

Do the math at 1.8% battery life loss a year. On average it comes out closer to 10 years than 20, or better yet, do some research because you're clearly stuck on this 20 number when it's not even close to the average EV. If you check several sites on EV battery life they will tell you that the average battery today will last between 8-14 years. 8 years is what you'll see if you're in an area like the New England where it gets very hot or very cold during summer/winter. 14 years is what you'll get in a milder climate like San Diego. Nobody is touting 20 years as the average EV battery life, and that's using articles from last year. What is the mean of 8 and 14? 11, which is a lot closer to 10 than 20.

According to Car and Driver, EVs have generally cost more than similar ICE vehicles up front, but there's nothing new there. EVs have clocked in cheaper to operate than ICE vehicles, that's where they shine. I'm not breaking new information there. It makes sense to buy an EV based on what kind of driver you are and what EV you plan on buying. If you generally make short trips around a city, EVs can be great. If you do lots of long distance driving, obviously it's not a first choice.

 

[TorontoGold]

Yeah, they mentioned at the end of the article that the battery could last 20 years AFTER they already established that only the very elite EV batteries were going 20 years. Unless that 2019 EV you bought is a Tesla or one of those Lucid Air type vehicles with liquid cooling for the battery, it's likely not going 20 years.

Do the math at 1.8% battery life loss a year. On average it comes out closer to 10 years than 20, or better yet, do some research because you're clearly stuck on this 20 number when it's not even close to the average EV. If you check several sites on EV battery life they will tell you that the average battery today will last between 8-14 years. 8 years is what you'll see if you're in an area like the New England where it gets very hot or very cold during summer/winter. 14 years is what you'll get in a milder climate like San Diego. Nobody is touting 20 years as the average EV battery life, and that's using articles from last year. What is the mean of 8 and 14? 11, which is a lot closer to 10 than 20.

According to Car and Driver, EVs have generally cost more than similar ICE vehicles up front, but there's nothing new there. EVs have clocked in cheaper to operate than ICE vehicles, that's where they shine. I'm not breaking new information there. It makes sense to buy an EV based on what kind of driver you are and what EV you plan on buying. If you generally make short trips around a city, EVs can be great. If you do lots of long distance driving, obviously it's not a first choice.

Not trying to get into this debate - purely financial - what is your holding period for a car? Like when you buy one how long do you expect to keep it for?

Accounting/tax cars are only useful for 5 years before they’re “used up”. I’ve leased cars on 4 year terms for most of my life, and just bought a sports car with a 7 year term. Hoping to have it last for 10 years, but Canadian winters are horrible for cars so who knows.

I looked at EV’s when I was going to get a new car and man, there doesn’t seem to be many sporty options.

 

[ulukinatme]

Not trying to get into this debate - purely financial - what is your holding period for a car? Like when you buy one how long do you expect to keep it for?

Accounting/tax cars are only useful for 5 years before they’re “used up”. I’ve leased cars on 4 year terms for most of my life, and just bought a sports car with a 7 year term. Hoping to have it last for 10 years, but Canadian winters are horrible for cars so who knows.

I looked at EV’s when I was going to get a new car and man, there doesn’t seem to be many sporty options.

It's funny you ask, I've got two cars that I drive and my wife has one for herself. I still have a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP that I've kept running, owned it since 2007. I mostly just drive it in the winter, because my other vehicle is a 2016 Audi A3 Premium 2.0 Turbo that I bought in 2020 and paid off in December. While the Audi does have All Wheel Drive which is better in the snow, the Grand Prix is an absolute Midwest mega rust bucket at this point and I've been trying to keep the Audi in the garage to avoid that. Now that the Audi is paid off I plan on keeping it as my 3rd vehicle because I really like that car. Don't get me wrong, the Grand Prix has been super solid for 2 decades, but I'm beyond ready to clean the rust off my driveway and put that beast out to pasture.

Obviously the Grand Prix is kind of an outlier, I've never kept a vehicle that long before, but there were extenuating circumstances that make for a very long story, so I won't get into it here. I'll just say that when the GM bailout occurred and all the GMAC loans transferred to Ally they fucked me over on the title for a long, long time.

I plan on keeping the Audi for at least another 5 years because it still runs like a dream with only 65k miles, so it'll be at least 14 years old by the time I get rid of it. You're right on the comment that there aren't a lot of sporty EVs, and the ones that are tend to be quite pricey.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I pretty much drive a car until the wheels fall off. I hate buying cars.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Cool!

Let’s take the pollution challenge. I’ll leave my EV turned on in my garage and spend the night in there if you agree to stay the night in your garage with a car that has a diesel engine running all night.

Deal?

Well, I'd hoped you'd address the very real concerns about EV's regarding their net impact on the environment. Sure, they're clean in and of themselves, but the mining, manufacturing, and disposal of the lithium and their batteries, as well as the generation of the electricity they use is far from it. However, you decided to dodge those questions with a challenge that highlights how clean EV's are. Savage, bro. It would actually be a brilliant deflection for the win except for one thing: you don't know much about diesels.

Starting in 2010, the EPA began phasing in the use of an exhaust system on most new diesel engines for use in the US. This system removes virtually all particulates and injects a very fine mist of DEF (diesel exhaust fluid - a compound made primarily of water, ammonia and glycerin) into the exhaust stream that catalyzes virtually all the remaining unwanted compounds, resulting in the exhaust exiting the system being essentially clean air with a bit of increased humidity. So clean that diesel engines with this system are now certified clean in all 50 states, including California. You can run all the diesel vehicles you want in an enclosed space without even ventilating it and have no issues at all other than it might feel a bit humid. No foul smell, no CO, no NOX, no danger, no nothing. There are a few exceptions of course, but basically all new diesel engines over 74 hp have to use this system in the US - every diesel powered passenger vehicle, work truck, heavy truck, semi, farm tractor, bulldozer, crane, and even locomotives.

So, to be fair and make it sporting, I'll accept your challenge and instead of a single car, let's use a large garage about the size of a basketball gym. We'll use a bulldozer, 3 semis, a couple of those big treaded farm tractors that bend in the middle and are as big as a house, a harvester, a couple of dump trucks, a cement truck, and as many diesel powered F-350's as we can squeeze in around the other vehicles, let them all run throughout the night, and I'll be glad to sleep in there with them. Tomorrow morning I'll stroll over to your place feeling fine, not even smelling of exhaust fumes, and you can then, over a cup of coffee, explain how clean your little car is after we take into account the lithium batteries and the coal-powered electricity it uses.

Deal?

 

[Irish#1]

It's funny you ask, I've got two cars that I drive and my wife has one for herself. I still have a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP that I've kept running, owned it since 2007. I mostly just drive it in the winter, because my other vehicle is a 2016 Audi A3 Premium 2.0 Turbo that I bought in 2020 and paid off in December. While the Audi does have All Wheel Drive which is better in the snow, the Grand Prix is an absolute Midwest mega rust bucket at this point and I've been trying to keep the Audi in the garage to avoid that. Now that the Audi is paid off I plan on keeping it as my 3rd vehicle because I really like that car. Don't get me wrong, the Grand Prix has been super solid for 2 decades, but I'm beyond ready to clean the rust off my driveway and put that beast out to pasture.

Obviously the Grand Prix is kind of an outlier, I've never kept a vehicle that long before, but there were extenuating circumstances that make for a very long story, so I won't get into it here. I'll just say that when the GM bailout occurred and all the GMAC loans transferred to Ally they fucked me over on the title for a long, long time.

I plan on keeping the Audi for at least another 5 years because it still runs like a dream with only 65k miles, so it'll be at least 14 years old by the time I get rid of it. You're right on the comment that there aren't a lot of sporty EVs, and the ones that are tend to be quite pricey.

Very similar story with us. The wife has a 2016 Accord. Bought it used in 2020. Only 50K on it now and plan on keeping it. Still have my Lincoln Mark V pickup. Has about 235K on it. I'll keep it until it says no more. The wife always wanted a Mercedes, but there's no way I am willing to pay that much for a car. Lease payments would be out of the roof as well. I decided to look at used ones. Got lucky and found a 2017 GLE350 that was super clean. The proverbial old lady owned it. Looked at the new models and they are almost identical in appearance. Biggest difference is the display. I Looked at it at lunch time and bought it. Surprised the wife when I pulled in the driveway. Like you, we drive it as the third vehicle and I'm being aggressive in paying it off.

 

[ulukinatme]

Very similar story with us. The wife has a 2016 Accord. Bought it used in 2020. Only 50K on it now and plan on keeping it. Still have my Lincoln Mark V pickup. Has about 235K on it. I'll keep it until it says no more. The wife always wanted a Mercedes, but there's no way I am willing to pay that much for a car. Lease payments would be out of the roof as well. I decided to look at used ones. Got lucky and found a 2017 GLE350 that was super clean. The proverbial old lady owned it. Looked at the new models and they are almost identical in appearance. Biggest difference is the display. I Looked at it at lunch time and bought it. Surprised the wife when I pulled in the driveway. Like you, we drive it as the third vehicle and I'm being aggressive in paying it off.

Enjoy! Hopefully that Mercedes lasts you a long time so you get a nice return on the investment and years of enjoyment. I'll probably end up letting my daughter drive my Audi once she gets her license in a few years. If it was my son I wouldn't trust him with that vehicle, I love it too much and he's a reckless type

 

[Bluto]

Yeah, they mentioned at the end of the article that the battery could last 20 years AFTER they already established that only the very elite EV batteries were going 20 years. Unless that 2019 EV you bought is a Tesla or one of those Lucid Air type vehicles with liquid cooling for the battery, it's likely not going 20 years.

Do the math at 1.8% battery life loss a year. On average it comes out closer to 10 years than 20, or better yet, do some research because you're clearly stuck on this 20 number when it's not even close to the average EV. If you check several sites on EV battery life they will tell you that the average battery today will last between 8-14 years. 8 years is what you'll see if you're in an area like the New England where it gets very hot or very cold during summer/winter. 14 years is what you'll get in a milder climate like San Diego. Nobody is touting 20 years as the average EV battery life, and that's using articles from last year. What is the mean of 8 and 14? 11, which is a lot closer to 10 than 20.

According to Car and Driver, EVs have generally cost more than similar ICE vehicles up front, but there's nothing new there. EVs have clocked in cheaper to operate than ICE vehicles, that's where they shine. I'm not breaking new information there. It makes sense to buy an EV based on what kind of driver you are and what EV you plan on buying. If you generally make short trips around a city, EVs can be great. If you do lots of long distance driving, obviously it's not a first choice.

Dude. They established in the article that all of the newer EV’s (2017 or there about onward) use the batteries that give you that life span. Hence if you buy any current/recent EV your good for about 20 years.

As to the cons I already discussed that in an earlier post.

 

[ulukinatme]

Dude. They established in the article that all of the newer EV’s (2017 or there about onward) use the batteries that give you that life span. Hence if you buy any current/recent EV your good for about 20 years.

As to the cons I already discussed that in an earlier post.

Nope. It's mentioned twice that it only applies to the very best modern EVs.

The data shows the average EV battery studied degraded by just 1.8 percent per year, which is an improvement from five years ago when the average degradation was 2.3 percent per year. The best-performing EVs in the new study degraded at just 1.0 percent per year.

Those best performing EVs, not all or even the average, are degrading at 1.0% a year. Those are the ones after 20 years that have hit the 80% threshold and are ready to be replaced. Those are your Teslas and the liquid cooled batteries like the Lucid Air. The average EV is degrading 1.8% now, which IS an improvement over the old 2.3%, but those batteries are going to be the ones that need replaced in 8-14 years based on where you live and how your vehicle is being used.

Doing the math, Geotab’s research shows the best modern EVs shouldn’t reach that point until they’re 20 years old, while the average EV should make it 11.1 years.

They also go to explain the factors, like extreme temperatures and charging practices, that can affect the battery life. Bottom line, for the thousandth time, is your average EV battery is not going 20 years. Not unless you're running it past it's suggested lifespan of 80-70% life.

I urge you to look at some other articles and websites about this. Nobody is touting that all modern EV batteries will last 20 years. The most recent stuff is 8-14 years based on your circumstances if you have an average modern EV.

You lose. Good day, sir.