Duke Post Game

[Polish Leppy 22]

Scheme is more at fault y e yesterday IMO

Wasn't that the IE narrative in the offseason??? Whether or not this O line improves in 2020, Jeff Quinn would not be the O line coach at a top 10 program if BK wasn't the head coach.

 

[Luckylucci]

WR is an enormous concern IMO. We have zero threats with Lenzy and Austin both out. It really makes it difficult to move the ball because it forces Book to be insanely effecient.

It really doesn’t. He was 19-31 yesterday. If he was 21-31 and completed two easy throws to Tremble (inside RZ vs INT) and Kyren (tunnel screen) he’s at 67% which would be good but not insane and we’d have probably had anywhere from 6 to 14 more points. The game feels a lot different then. The WR’s can certainly do better but this notion that Book is taking these snaps with no options to throw too is so far from the truth. In these games he’s not even moving the offense with the ‘easy’ stuff. Can you imagine how Rees and Kelly feel when they dial up the perfect tunnel screen and Book spazzes out and chucks the ball over Kyren’s head. Like WTF man. That’s rookie stuff.

If you back out the one tunnel screen he did complete to Kyren, which is a 5-10 yard throw, or so, that went for 75. He would’ve been at 18-30 for 188 yards and 6.26 yards/att. They gave him opportunities to juice his stats without doing anything spectacular. He just blew one of the plays on his own.

 

[BeatSC]

I give Book one Mulligan on this one. I’m afraid Duke will get run over by other teams making this competitive win that much more alarming. We need revenge and to dominate USF this week. BTW very perplexing to see the large clustering of fans and then so many wide open spaces. I say they have a weekly lottery and between kickoff and the end of the first quarter they let in about another 10,000 lucky fans to fill the very empty stand spaces with socially distanced attendance. Hoping CV stays at bay and we can allow a large crowd for the Clemson night game. While you want your QB to have confidence and swagger Ian Book has no reason to walk around like he is the big man on campus. The other QBs have to be watching and shaking their heads thinking they can do better than what he did.

BTW that bowl win over Iowa St looks less impressive now.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

For all you guys complaining about the OL a few things I want to point out.

1. Chris Rumph is a stud and a top 20 NFL draft pick. And I thought he was held in check most of the day. Rumph would be the best DE on Notre Dame, just saying. He was the number 1 DE according to PFF in 2019.

2. Remember Hainsey and Kramer have not seen game action in nearly a year.

3. With no spring practice, limited fall camp where there were many disruptions the OL hasn’t had a chance to be a cohesive unit yet. And again Kramer and Hainsey have not been in live action in 10+ months.

4. You have to give credit to Duke, as their Dline is the strength of their team.


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[Armyirish47]

Thoughts? I haz them!

1. Defense is going to be championship level.
2. Special teams appears to be championship level.
3. Offense is going to be....a work in progress. BUT, lots of positives if you pretend the first quarter doesn't exist because:
A. RB recruiting is just fine thanks!
B. As I, and well everybody else, said pre-season our TEs give us a unique sauce that is going to be hard to match up with.
C. Book is fine...R-E-L-A-X. So he wasn't comfy in the pocket? So he missed some open throws? So he didn't inspire the most confidence?

I don't care. He is a leader with a ton of reps under his belt, we've seen these performances before and he has routinely bounced back.

My preseason expectations haven't moved at all and I'm still just as fired up. Let's go!

 

[ThePiombino]

C. Book is fine...R-E-L-A-X. So he wasn't comfy in the pocket? So he missed some open throws? So he didn't inspire the most confidence?



I don't care. He is a leader with a ton of reps under his belt, we've seen these performances before and he has routinely bounced back.



My preseason expectations haven't moved at all and I'm still just as fired up. Let's go!

You're right - Book is fine, but fine doesn't win conferences or playoff games. Book is a 5th yr senior and 3rd yr starter. He should be better than fine by now or else he shouldn't be QB1 at a P5 school that has any intentions of competing for hardware.

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[stpeteirish]

For all you guys complaining about the OL a few things I want to point out.

1. Chris Rumph is a stud and a top 20 NFL draft pick. And I thought he was held in check most of the day. Rumph would be the best DE on Notre Dame, just saying. He was the number 1 DE according to PFF in 2019.

2. Remember Hainsey and Kramer have not seen game action in nearly a year.

3. With no spring practice, limited fall camp where there were many disruptions the OL hasn’t had a chance to be a cohesive unit yet. And again Kramer and Hainsey have not been in live action in 10+ months.

4. You have to give credit to Duke, as their Dline is the strength of their team.


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The Duke DL may be the reason our OL looked like shit and it is a very good crew, not just Rumph.

 

[NDRock]

As bad as they played at times, I never thought the game was in question honestly. I watched some other games and nobody has looked especially impressive. At least the Irish showed some speed on defense and overall seemed way more athletic. With the exception of the qb position.

Unfortunately, it's the most important position in sports.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Unfortunately, it's the most important position in sports.

I just don't understand it. Notre Dame should have no problem having a stud qb every single year. And yet we are stuck with Tommy Rees and Ian Book types most years.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

The Duke DL may be the reason our OL looked like shit and it is a very good crew, not just Rumph.

I wouldn’t say they looked like ****, maybe at some points in the game. And you are correct it’s not just Rumph, it’s the strongest position group for Duke. And I’ll say it again Rumph is a stud first round pick.


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[NDRock]

I just don't understand it. Notre Dame should have no problem having a stud qb every single year. And yet we are stuck with Tommy Rees and Ian Book types most years.

I like Kelly, think he's an excellent coach but it's just part of the package. For some reason the "elite" qbs we recruit don't pan out yet the Book/Rees guys do. Those guys can win you a lot of games (and get you contract extensions) but they will never win you a championship.

The good part about those guys starting is I know there is a 0% chance we can do anything in the playoffs so my expectations are lowered and I don't get as mad. No objective person could look at our offensive personnel and think we can win a championship in today's college football.

On to USF and some revenge.

 

[Dizzyphil]

For all that has been posted.... the Irish were favored by 21. At the end of the first half, the deflection/missed catch for an interception would/could have probably gone for a TD with a couple more plays (possibly) giving the Irish a 21 point win.


Vegas is not a bunch of amateurs... they put the spread at 21 for a reason. So, that ONE possession would have been the line set by Vegas. Yes, 34-13 would have looked better.



With the current situation on how teams are practicing, this (to me) was a pre-season game.



Although, I do believe the offensive line needs to improve. And, the defensive line was B+ if not A- especially after 1st half adjustments.


My thoughts....

 

[Armyirish47]

You're right - Book is fine, but fine doesn't win conferences or playoff games. Book is a 5th yr senior and 3rd yr starter. He should be better than fine by now or else he shouldn't be QB1 at a P5 school that has any intentions of competing for hardware.

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I mean he is what 21 - 3 as a starter? I know he is like a well worn pair of socks at this point, but let's not pretend his level of "fine" is wildly below average P5 QB1.

 

[Old Man Mike]

AP pollsters watched the game. They vote us #7 in the country.

... sky is falling.

 

[ThePiombino]

AP pollsters watched the game. They vote us #7 in the country.

... sky is falling.

Three teams ahead of ND in the pre-season poll are in conferences that opted out. ND moved up those three spots. What's your point?

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[Old Man Mike]

TheP: what the he!l is YOUR point? We're going against the people who ARE playing. AND the AP sees us as Number Seven. SEVEN. What's Your Problem?

 

[Irish#1]

WR is an enormous concern IMO. We have zero threats with Lenzy and Austin both out. It really makes it difficult to move the ball because it forces Book to be insanely effecient.

What you saw, was COVID related. The summer is when Book would normally spend a lot of time with some of the receivers to get some of the timing down and learning tendencies.

 

[ThePiombino]

TheP: what the he!l is YOUR point? We're going against the people who ARE playing. AND the AP sees us as Number Seven. SEVEN. What's Your Problem?

Your suggestion that ND being 7 is somehow an accomplishment. Their ascension was by default, as was the rest of the remaining top-25. Let's not allow that to delude us into thinking game one's performance was something of an achievement.

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[DONTH8]

If anyone wants a replay of the game, and didn’t record it. Here is the YouTube link.

https://youtu.be/xIbTDzJv4x0

 

[fightingirish26]

TheP: what the he!l is YOUR point? We're going against the people who ARE playing. AND the AP sees us as Number Seven. SEVEN. What's Your Problem?

 

[Valpodoc85]

Sure was nice to watch a college football game on a rainy fall day. There is a lot of uncertainty. No telling how many more we will get this fall. So I for one will enjoy the shit out of it, even if the team seems a bit rusty the beer was cold

 

[snoopdog]

Notre Dame oline was rated top line performance this week by PFF. So there you go.

 

[T-Boone]

Notre Dame oline was rated top line performance this week by PFF. So there you go.

Wow, great effort.

 

[T-Boone]

Maybe as a fan base we got a bit spoilt by what Quentin Nelson could do and expecting similar level from others is not fair.

 

[Luckylucci]

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/Tim-Pristers-Point-After-151425161/

I think Prister nails it on the head in this article. The biggest problem with Book is we aren’t getting the consistency with Book that you’d expect from such a veteran. Especially in areas where experience tends to standout. And, at various times, it’s like we have to go through a rebuild, reboot, dumbed down offense, whatever you want to call it to make things work. Which some of that doesn’t even make work.

A lot of his issues are recurring issues you see with inexperienced QB’s.

Which begs the question, what is the benefit versus a younger guy with more upside and longevity in the program. I also bought into the expectation that this guy would eventually bring those things to the offense with his experience but he never consistently has.

 

[JD Irish]

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/Tim-Pristers-Point-After-151425161/

I think Prister nails it on the head in this article. The biggest problem with Book is we aren’t getting the consistency with Book that you’d expect from such a veteran. Especially in areas where experience tends to standout. And, at various times, it’s like we have to go through a rebuild, reboot, dumbed down offense, whatever you want to call it to make things work. Which some of that doesn’t even make work.

A lot of his issues are recurring issues you see with inexperienced QB’s.

Which begs the question, what is the benefit versus a younger guy with more upside and longevity in the program. I also bought into the expectation that this guy would eventually bring those things to the offense with his experience but he never consistently has.

The additional problem is our backups are 3-stars with similarly limited upside.

 

[fightingirish26]

The additional problem is our backups are 3-stars with similarly limited upside.

I mean stars is lazy but even if you want to do that Pyne was a 4*. Clark is big, strong, athletic and has a cannon but apparently struggles with accuracy (Which we thought was Book's strong suit at first. He doesn't even make the easy throws consistently anymore, based on Saturday. Clark couldn't possibly be less accurate than Wimbush tho, right?).

Pyne is a little undersized, but he showed some decent athleticism in high school, and has impressive mechanics (last we checked, gulp). If I wasn't banking on Buchner I'd be more excited about him, I think there's a lot of reasons to believe he can be successful.

 

[fightingirish26]

Which begs the question, what is the benefit versus a younger guy with more upside and longevity in the program. I also bought into the expectation that this guy would eventually bring those things to the offense with his experience but he never consistently has.

I don't see them moving on from Book unless things get really bad, and maybe not even then. It seems like BK desperately wanted to have a veteran QB and leader on the team. A decade in, he's never previously had any sort of continuity at the position so I think he was craving that in Book. He's the first captain at the position under BK, and a two time captain to boot. It's still hard to pinpoint why we never see growth at the position under BK, but the only constant is him.

Hopefully Book can make a quicker progression to his November form this year. I think he had very similar struggles against Louisville, so I think he'll certainly get much better, but can he improve upon his highs from last year? For as good as our OL is at pass protection, he is so jumpy in the pocket, and doesn't see wide open receivers. Does he simply just panic? Is he too short to see over people? Do we do a bad job of preparing him to face live contact? He has a confident demeanor off the field but doesn't always play like it.

 

[Luckylucci]

The additional problem is our backups are 3-stars with similarly limited upside.

The upside I’m speaking too isn’t just physical upside, though Jurkovec and Clark have really strong arms. It’s upside within the offense. Book limits this offense by not getting through progressions, refusing to throw certain passes, and sometimes by simply not being prepared to throw.

Route combinations are there (in simplistic terms) so if the defense does this, then this should be open and throw to this guy. Sometimes, inexperienced QB’s aren’t comfortable getting through those progressions, don’t do so fast enough, or can’t see (pre-snap) what should be there and what shouldn’t. Which limits the offense even though the QB can make the throw. Book can make these throws he’s just not doing so. This is the same exact thing that plagued him early last year.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't see them moving on from Book unless things get really bad, and maybe not even then. It seems like BK desperately wanted to have a veteran QB and leader on the team. A decade in, he's never previously had any sort of continuity at the position so I think he was craving that in Book. He's the first captain at the position under BK, and a two time captain to boot. It's still hard to pinpoint why we never see growth at the position under BK, but the only constant is him.

Hopefully Book can make a quicker progression to his November form this year. I think he had very similar struggles against Louisville, so I think he'll certainly get much better. For as good as our OL is at pass protection, he is so jumpy in the pocket, and doesn't see wide open receivers. Does he simply just panic? Is he too short to see over people? Do we do a bad job of preparing him to face live contact? He has a confident demeanor off the field but doesn't always play like it.

And I don’t think so either. I also didn’t think so last year. But the more games like this he has, the more difficult that decision becomes because it’s not going anywhere. This isn’t improvement.

What’s interesting about Book is they are not asking him to do what was the downfall of previous QB’s. Previously BK would put more and more responsibility on the QB’s as the grew in the offense and eventually it seemed to cripple them. Protections, audibles, etc. they aren’t doing that with Book. He doesn’t call protections and he doesn’t have options on run or pass.