Defensive Line Thread

[T-Boone]

Where is there a whole? I don't see hole due to lack of talent. A little in experience a 3T, but that's all.

there is a hole in the fans confidence levels with this position.

 

[Old Man Mike]

My amateur opinion: if MTA is healthy he will be an absolute monster-in-the-middle. Wrecking Ball.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

My amateur opinion: if MTA is healthy he will be an absolute monster-in-the-middle. Wrecking Ball.

I hear that. But, I think MTA has a ceiling of being a very good. Jayson A once he puts it all together is an elite all-American.


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[T-Boone]

Do they cross train MTA at nose tackle? That would make sense to me.

 

[Luckylucci]

Do they cross train MTA at nose tackle? That would make sense to me.

With Franklin healthy and ready to go they have a 3 deep at NT (Junior/Sophomore/Freshman) Not sure that’s necessary. With that said, the NT comes off the field in the Nickel/Dime packages so there isn’t the same snap count need as there is at the other DL positions. In those scenarios the 3T or even a DE will move to that spot.

Also, Hinish was playing as much if not more than Bonner down the stretch last year. So, kind of a weird time to be this concerned about it.

 

[T-Boone]

With Franklin healthy and ready to go they have a 3 deep at NT (Junior/Sophomore/Freshman) Not sure that’s necessary. With that said, the NT comes off the field in the Nickel/Dime packages so there isn’t the same snap count need as there is at the other DL positions. In those scenarios the 3T or even a DE will move to that spot.

Also, Hinish was playing as much if not more than Bonner down the stretch last year. So, kind of a weird time to be this concerned about it.

I like Lacey more at 3T long term, same as how I think in hindsight Tillery was somewhat wasted at nose in 17. I have also heard Franklin might be in cotton wool until October. Additionally like you I want Ademilola to start at 3T but I also like MTA a lot. So through September Coach Boone has MTA spending some time at nose.

 

[Irish YJ]

Still a bit nervous about the iDL, but more confident about them than LB.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

As always great insight from this board. The inexperience in the middle of the defense seems to be the biggest concern which definitely makes sense considering what we lost. I think the difference between the current roster and previous is the quality depth we've built at most defensive positions. We are in the reloading category rather than rebuilding. Still hard to have confidence until we see it on the field but I'm optimistic.

 

[Irish YJ]

As always great insight from this board. The inexperience in the middle of the defense seems to be the biggest concern which definitely makes sense considering what we lost. I think the difference between the current roster and previous is the quality depth we've built at most defensive positions. We are in the reloading category rather than rebuilding. Still hard to have confidence until we see it on the field but I'm optimistic.

the first 3 or 4 games could be rough, especially against the run up the middle. iDL and LB crews could take some time to get sorted.

i wish game 1 (Lou) was not on the road, and i wish game 3 (UGA) was later in the season.

 

[T-Boone]

I have to admit a lot of my concern about the middle has been about remembering the 17 team fade and look fatigued towards the end of the season but a lot of that may have been to do with the offense not being able to stay on the field for long. Which might not be as big of a problem for this team.

 

[GowerND11]

I just don't get where people are saying we are inexperienced. We have two players that have been part of the rotation since day 1 of their freshman year. Now, one was out for basically all of last year, but the starters aren't inexperienced, just not returning starters.

 

[stlnd01]

I just don't get where people are saying we are inexperienced. We have two players that have been part of the rotation since day 1 of their freshman year. Now, one was out for basically all of last year, but the starters aren't inexperienced, just not returning starters.

It's the contrast.
Tillery was rotational as a freshman and then a three-year starter (I can not imagine how many snaps he played in his Notre Dame career)
Bonner's easy to overlook but he, too, was a workhorse who started every game for two seasons.
Coney hardly came off the field for a year and a half and made about 14,000 tackles.
And Tranquil feels like he's been playing Notre Dame football since the Davie era.

So, yes, Hinish and Jay A and MTA have played some in rotation (kind of like Tillery entering his sophomore year), and there are linebackers with lots of potential (like Coney going into his junior year). But there will clearly be a big dropoff in terms of experience in the middle of our defense, and it's OK to say that.

 

[koonja]

I blessed ISD with a thread on defensive sleepers, and I'll paste what I said about 2 DL that I am buying EARLY on right here:

1) Daelin Hayes. This kid has flashed so many times, but always been one second away from the sack, or forced the QB to change direction and someone else gets credited the sack. I pay attention when he's in and he's causing issues, and he's now a senior and it's "do or die" for his NFL dreams. Okwara gets the spotlight and rightefully so, but I expect Hayes is quietly going about his business and has big expectations.

2) Jay Admandiola. I think we like the starting DTs, and people are excited about Jacob Lacey because he's the shiny new toy, and Jamion Franklin being back is getting attention. For some reason Jay Ade doesn't get mentioned much, and he blew up his senior year in HS. I feel like he's laying in the weeds much like Daelin Hayes, and I'm hoping he has the quiet confidence and expectation of being just as good as those in front of him.

 

[GowerND11]

It's the contrast.
Tillery was rotational as a freshman and then a three-year starter (I can not imagine how many snaps he played in his Notre Dame career)
Bonner's easy to overlook but he, too, was a workhorse who started every game for two seasons.
Coney hardly came off the field for a year and a half and made about 14,000 tackles.
And Tranquil feels like he's been playing Notre Dame football since the Davie era.

So, yes, Hinish and Jay A and MTA have played some in rotation (kind of like Tillery entering his sophomore year), and there are linebackers with lots of potential (like Coney going into his junior year). But there will clearly be a big dropoff in terms of experience in the middle of our defense, and it's OK to say that.

No I agree that a drop off is expected, I'm not saying it won't. I just think too many are saying these guys stepping up have no chance to perform and they lack any credible experience. I'm more skeptical of the LB corps than DL for the record though.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I blessed ISD with a thread on defensive sleepers, and I'll paste what I said about 2 DL that I am buying EARLY on right here:

1) Daelin Hayes. This kid has flashed so many times, but always been one second away from the sack, or forced the QB to change direction and someone else gets credited the sack. I pay attention when he's in and he's causing issues, and he's now a senior and it's "do or die" for his NFL dreams. Okwara gets the spotlight and rightefully so, but I expect Hayes is quietly going about his business and has big expectations.

2) Jay Admandiola. I think we like the starting DTs, and people are excited about Jacob Lacey because he's the shiny new toy, and Jamion Franklin being back is getting attention. For some reason Jay Ade doesn't get mentioned much, and he blew up his senior year in HS. I feel like he's laying in the weeds much like Daelin Hayes, and I'm hoping he has the quiet confidence and expectation of being just as good as those in front of him.

I can't believe that you blessed both threads with the same misspelling of Jay Ade's name.

I do agree with both your points. Between Ade and MTA, the 3 technique will be in pretty good shape.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I blessed ISD with a thread on defensive sleepers, and I'll paste what I said about 2 DL that I am buying EARLY on right here:

1) Daelin Hayes. This kid has flashed so many times, but always been one second away from the sack, or forced the QB to change direction and someone else gets credited the sack. I pay attention when he's in and he's causing issues, and he's now a senior and it's "do or die" for his NFL dreams. Okwara gets the spotlight and rightefully so, but I expect Hayes is quietly going about his business and has big expectations.

2) Jay Admandiola. I think we like the starting DTs, and people are excited about Jacob Lacey because he's the shiny new toy, and Jamion Franklin being back is getting attention. For some reason Jay Ade doesn't get mentioned much, and he blew up his senior year in HS. I feel like he's laying in the weeds much like Daelin Hayes, and I'm hoping he has the quiet confidence and expectation of being just as good as those in front of him.

I agree with Hayes for sure, this is the first year since he's been inserted as a starter that he's kind of disappeared from the spotlight so to speak, with Kareem and Okwara leading the pass-rush hype.

He is likely a late round draft choice with his current career production, and I think he will be hungry to improve that draft stock and have a great season. Going to help a lot with the attention the other two will be getting.

 

[stlnd01]

I agree with Hayes for sure, this is the first year since I think he's kind of disappeared from the spotlight so to speak with Kareem and Okwara leading the pass-rush hype.

He is likely a late round draft choice with his current career production, and I think he will be hungry to improve that draft stock and have a great season. Going to help a lot with the attention the other two will be getting.

Guessing Kareem will slide inside some on passing downs, so they can get him, Okwara and Hayes (or Ogundeje) all out there at once, yes? That should help with DT depth as well.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Guessing Kareem will slide inside some on passing downs, so they can get him, Okwara and Hayes (or Ogundeje) all out there at once, yes? That should help with DT depth as well.

Definitely, especially on third and long situations.

Take care of business on first and second, have some fun on third. Our pass rush depth is very exciting.

 

[fightingirish26]

Guessing Kareem will slide inside some on passing downs, so they can get him, Okwara and Hayes (or Ogundeje) all out there at once, yes? That should help with DT depth as well.

Definitely, they slid him inside a lot last year in those situations. Who takes over the Tillery role on those downs? Jay seems like the best pash rushing DT to me.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'm for MTA as the most destructive of our DTs this season; never bet against the mystique of the "Samoan" physique and the bodies of Stone.

That said: I'm also betting that we'll field Eight or more DLinemen this year that almost any team would die for. If our LBs can hold up, this front will manhandle opponents all season.

"We gonna be Beast."

 

[Irish#1]

I just don't get where people are saying we are inexperienced. We have two players that have been part of the rotation since day 1 of their freshman year. Now, one was out for basically all of last year, but the starters aren't inexperienced, just not returning starters.

This, plus Hinish is going to do quite well this year.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

One of the defensive strengths over the past few years, but I'm concerned about this unit against some of the tougher teams remaining on the schedule. Should I be?

 

[JD Irish]

One of the defensive strengths over the past few years, but I'm concerned about this unit against some of the tougher teams remaining on the schedule. Should I be?

The defensive ends this year are definitely not as good as the last couple of years.

 

[BabyIrish]

The defensive ends this year are definitely not as good as the last couple of years.

Maybe Hayes and Adi are worse in pass rush but they are significantly better against the run.

 

[fightingirish26]

Any team in the country would be worse at DE after losing Kareem and Okwara (plus a solid rotational player in Jamir Jones). The group as a whole struggled vs. FSU but I am willing to write that off to rustiness/COVID. Daelin Hayes in particular has not reached his early 2019 level like many hoped he would.

By the same token, Foskey has at times looked excellent and I see his snap count continuing to rise as the season goes on. Ade still flashes as a pash rusher. And finally, I think Justin Ademilola has been a really positive contributor thus far.

I would like to see Daelin prove himself worthy of starter's snaps and for Ovie to grow on the promise he showed in limited snaps last year.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Couldn't disagree more.

I think this is the deepest and most talented DL we've had in a long time.

2018 was probably the most talented starting unit, but this unit is deeper and stronger all around.

I would say that Ade/Hayes isn't as strong as Kareem/Okwara, but that's a moot point, because we didn't have Okwara for much of last season and Kareem was battling injury practically all of last year. Not to mention, the increased role of Foskey, Ovie, Ademilola and the addition of Botelho.

Interior is also the deepest unit we've had since the Holtz days. Hinish, MTA, Ademilola, Lacey, Cross, Mills. They are literally three deep at both spots for probably the first time in 2 decades.

I think COVID threw this unit a major curve ball. Hayes probably hasn't fully gained back his momentum from his injury. But Foskey was looking like a freshman AA caliber player, but then the suspension of football derailed that momentum and forced him to sit out for weeks.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Couldn't disagree more.

I think this is the deepest and most talented DL we've had in a long time.

2018 was probably the most talented starting unit, but this unit is deeper and stronger all around.

I would say that Ade/Hayes isn't as strong as Kareem/Okwara, but that's a moot point, because we didn't have Okwara for much of last season and Kareem was battling injury practically all of last year. Not to mention, the increased role of Foskey, Ovie, Ademilola and the addition of Botelho.

Interior is also the deepest unit we've had since the Holtz days. Hinish, MTA, Ademilola, Lacey, Cross, Mills. They are literally three deep at both spots for probably the first time in 2 decades.

I think COVID threw this unit a major curve ball. Hayes probably hasn't fully gained back his momentum from his injury. But Foskey was looking like a freshman AA caliber player, but then the suspension of football derailed that momentum and forced him to sit out for weeks.

Depth may be there but I don't see any game wreckers. Our sack rate has been terrible against some pretty suspect offensive lines. We need guys to put pressure on Lawrence and Howell without bringing extra bodies so they can't pick our secondary apart. Maybe it is due to COVID. Maybe because we have played our fair share of mobile QBs. In either case they have to get more pressure.

 

[T-Boone]

Hinish is having a good year and maybe he is a chance of being drafted. Probably hoping Lacey starts to really develop over the next few weeks. He would have suffered from not enough practice during the pre season.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Depth may be there but I don't see any game wreckers. Our sack rate has been terrible against some pretty suspect offensive lines. We need guys to put pressure on Lawrence and Howell without bringing extra bodies so they can't pick our secondary apart. Maybe it is due to COVID. Maybe because we have played our fair share of mobile QBs. In either case they have to get more pressure.

For one, it is absolutely due to COVID. You can't just stop practicing and playing and expect a team to hit the ground running after 2 weeks of not doing anything.

Secondly, while the sack rate is middling, ND has gone up against some very mobile QB's. Brice, McCloud, Travis and Cunningham are very mobile QBs, and make up 80% of ND's schedule.

Not to mention, Foskey is easily ND's most impressive DE and he was limited up until now.

 

[PANDFAN]

Maybe Hayes and Adi are worse in pass rush but they are significantly better against the run.

ade is one of the top in getting qb pressures can't recall if that was in ncaa or just acc ....he's getting his work done....hayes seems to be the one who has completely disappeared except for his 1 big hit