COVID-19

[Cackalacky2.0]

I suppose, but if they are testing a version that is the same as all of the current generics, not sure why anyone would pay for a more expensive version that has been repanteted. Bottom line is I've never read any articles with anyone theorizing that Ivermectin is a potential money grab. Now the 3.2 billion that the Feds are ready to throw out there, that's a different story.

This says there are 13 current patents related to invermectin. None of them are expired. Earliest expires in 2024.

As to paying more for a drug already in the market I guess insulin and epipen users didnt get that memo.

 

[NorthDakota]

It can be repurposed and repatented yes?

Not a patent expert by any means...but that doesn't seem right? Wouldn't the folks who created Tylenol just keep "discovering" new uses for it then to repatent the drug?

 

[ab2cmiller]

This says there are 13 current patents related to invermectin. None of them are expired. Earliest expires in 2024.

As to paying more for a drug already in the market I guess insulin and epipen users didnt get that memo.

So I guess we shouldn't be able to find generics anywhere then. Again, nobody is claiming Ivermectin is a potential money grab.

 

[TorontoGold]

Its almost an r=0.9 coorelation lmao

I also do not lump anti-covid vaxers in with the pre-Trump mumps, measles, Diptet causes autism antivaxxers. Two distinct POVs and rationale IMO. That group has been out to lunch on that for a while. I wont give them an ounce of oxygen to breath. Problem is that the anti-covid vaccinators are attempting to assimilate similar arguments into their beliefs but its incoherent.

Oh yikes, didn't think it was that large. Any reason to believe that states with more rural populations have difficulty accessing the vaccine? (really trying to give them some out here lol)

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Oh yikes, didn't think it was that large. Any reason to believe that states with more rural populations have difficulty accessing the vaccine? (really trying to give them some out here lol)

No. Vaccines are available and are not being used. It’s simply stubbornness and confederate at this point.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Oh yikes, didn't think it was that large. Any reason to believe that states with more rural populations have difficulty accessing the vaccine? (really trying to give them some out here lol)

Certainly the more rural populations faced some difficulty early on. I don't think they can use that excuse anymore.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So I guess we shouldn't be able to find generics anywhere then. Again, nobody is claiming Ivermectin is a potential money grab.

So you’re telling me that if there is a push by a company who can get a patent on repurposed ivermectin that they wouldn’t just leave that total profit on the table for someone else to grab?

insulsin prices have skyrocketed and epipens are dangerously expensive. I find it hard to believe that a drug company’s will prioritize its users over shareholders.

 

[TorontoGold]

Ah, that's disappointing. At least there is some natural immunity built in to having a high infection rate from the prior waves (I guess that's a positive?)

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/petbugs13/status/1409551540356993025[/TWEET]

This guy does daily easy to understand COVID charts (orignally followed him for hockey stuff), some may find it interesting. The chart with the vaccine rates is a cool one too.

EDIT - (The new tweet function is such a good improvement, holy hell admin's this is incredible)

 

[NorthDakota]

Oh yikes, didn't think it was that large. Any reason to believe that states with more rural populations have difficulty accessing the vaccine? (really trying to give them some out here lol)

I haven't heard of any difficulty getting it. I think more rural areas have significantly less motivation to get it. Mask mandates have been gone for months, weren't strictly enforced, life has went back to normal. Plus the old folks have already gotten the shot too. There is no tangible benefit to a lot of folks to get it (in their minds). I'm about as pro vaccine as it gets and even I dragged my feet for awhile. Felt like a chore.

One of my friends told me the other day she's not anti-vax but hadn't gotten it yet. Said she'll get it when there is some event she wants to go to that is requiring it. Similar answers from others, if NDSU's football or UND's hockey venues demanded they "show their papers" to enter, most of them would go get it.

 

[ab2cmiller]

So you’re telling me that if there is a push by a company who can get a patent on repurposed ivermectin that they wouldn’t just leave that total profit on the table for someone else to grab?

What I'm telling you is that literally nobody is saying this is a potential money grab in regards to Ivermectin. Are there certain "patent holders" that could try to charge more for their version of Ivermecting, maybe. Do I think they would be successful, no.

 

[Rogue219]

This Delta Variant of the virus is finding anyone who isn't vaccinated and fucking them up.

 

[Irish#1]

Not a patent expert by any means...but that doesn't seem right? Wouldn't the folks who created Tylenol just keep "discovering" new uses for it then to repatent the drug?

Are you saying Tylenol will cure Covid-19 and the truth is being hidden?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

What I'm telling you is that literally nobody is saying this is a potential money grab in regards to Ivermectin. Are there certain "patent holders" that could try to charge more for their version of Ivermecting, maybe. Do I think they would be successful, no.

Ok...? Why is that what you are hung up on that lol. I said its a potential money grap because any drug comapny who can will make money off of it being approved for COVID. I dont really care who else is saying it or not saying the quiet part out loud.

 

[NorthDakota]

Are you saying Tylenol will cure Covid-19?

Are you saying it wont?

 

[Trait Expectations]

What I'm telling you is that literally nobody is saying this is a potential money grab in regards to Ivermectin. Are there certain "patent holders" that could try to charge more for their version of Ivermecting, maybe. Do I think they would be successful, no.

Let's try this a different way. It is inconsequential what people are currently saying about Ivermectin.

If Ivermectin is this magical pill that it's being made out to be and studies continue to back that up then at least one pharmaceutical company will jump in the mix and grab Ivermectin or an Ivermectin analogue and patent it for the mass distribution that will ensue.

This is really basic economics for a company (companies) known to follow the money.

 

[Irishize]

Viagra was only a blood pressure medicine at first. Side effects included causing erections within 30-60 minutes. The drug then became appoved for impotence becasue Pfizer saw this to be the better way to make money off it. If there is money to be made off a drug by repurposing it....it will.

I guess im confused because I keep hearing that it has all these valid studies (which it doesnt) and if it becomes approved it will reap a windfall by becoming part of any COVID treatment thereby being repurposed from its original development intent. But im also hearing the community is actively denying it. Intersting dynamic for sure.

Everyone knows the story of viagra. But viagra did not have an expired patent so it’s not a good comparison to ivermectin. Ivermectin has long ago been off-patent and would not have the ability to be profitable the way a blockbuster billion dollar drug like Viagra. Viagra was not going to get approved for BP b/c it’s trials were modest at best and not proven better than currently approved compounds so the patent clock hadn’t even started yet. No one owns a patent to ivermectin as it expired years ago.

 

[Irishize]

Oh yikes, didn't think it was that large. Any reason to believe that states with more rural populations have difficulty accessing the vaccine? (really trying to give them some out here lol)

Anecdotally, I can tell you that rural folks aren’t necessarily against the vaccine but are also not going to make it a priority (which is unfortunate). They haven’t seen deaths or long haul illness the way a densely populated area has. They may have had Covid and thus see no reason to get a vaccine yet. They don’t have businesses or jobs w/ corporations that are adversely affected by not being vaccinated.

As you noted earlier, I would think if they were Trumpers, they’d be all over the vaccine b/c the guy predicted the vaccine would be ready in early 2021 and it was. Whether Trump deserves credit he was POTUS when the development started for COVID so I figured his supporters would at least celebrate it. It’ll never happen, but I’d love to have seen a PSA w/ Biden & Trump urging all eligible Americans to get the vaccine regardless of who they voted for. Not saying it would still convince everyone but it couldn’t hurt.

 

[TorontoGold]

Anecdotally, I can tell you that rural folks aren’t necessarily against the vaccine but are also not going to make it a priority (which is unfortunate). They haven’t seen deaths or long haul illness the way a densely populated area has. They may have had Covid and thus see no reason to get a vaccine yet. They don’t have businesses or jobs w/ corporations that are adversely affected by not being vaccinated.

As you noted earlier, I would think if they were Trumpers, they’d be all over the vaccine b/c the guy predicted the vaccine would be ready in early 2021 and it was. Whether Trump deserves credit he was POTUS when the development started for COVID so I figured his supporters would at least celebrate it. It’ll never happen, but I’d love to have seen a PSA w/ Biden & Trump urging all eligible Americans to get the vaccine regardless of who they voted for. Not saying it would still convince everyone but it couldn’t hurt.

Yeah the rural folk up here are slow to get the vaccine because we've prioritized hot spots so the uptake has lagged there.

Trump should have got it on camera. Likely would have helped a few percentage points if they saw the guy they love get it. Anti-vaxxers will still choose to be non-functional members of society, but Trump showing he got it probably would have helped a few more people get it.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Let's try this a different way. It is inconsequential what people are currently saying about Ivermectin.

If Ivermectin is this magical pill that it's being made out to be and studies continue to back that up then at least one pharmaceutical company will jump in the mix and grab Ivermectin or an Ivermectin analogue and patent it for the mass distribution that will ensue.

This is really basic economics for a company (companies) known to follow the money.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Let's try this a different way. It is inconsequential what people are currently saying about Ivermectin.

If Ivermectin is this magical pill that it's being made out to be and studies continue to back that up then at least one pharmaceutical company will jump in the mix and grab Ivermectin or an Ivermectin analogue and patent it for the mass distribution that will ensue.

This is really basic economics for a company (companies) known to follow the money.

In theory, I suppose it's possible. Two things will work strongly against it. Generics are widely available. Prices are currently very cheap and if a company tried to swoop in and repatent/repurpose a drug at a significantly higher price (without significantly improving the drug), they will catch a ton of hell in the press for trying to take advantage of people and unfairly profit off of COVID. That profit would come at a significant PR cost. Not sure if any pharma company would take that gamble and try to walk that fine line.

 

[ulukinatme]

Oh yikes, didn't think it was that large. Any reason to believe that states with more rural populations have difficulty accessing the vaccine? (really trying to give them some out here lol)

No. Vaccines are available and are not being used. It’s simply stubbornness and confederate at this point.

You're talking about a section of the country that was socially distancing before socially distancing was cool. Where I grew up in Ashland it's fairly conservative and only about 7% of the population has contracted COVID with less than 100 deaths per ~55,000 population. Compare that to a New York City with a nearly 50% of the state's COVID cases and twice the infection rate despite tighter lock downs and you can see why many rural counties may not be as worried about the vaccine. There are certainly counties in places with even more remote populations, some in Ohio hitting only 5% infected and as few as 17 deaths. I'm not an anti-vaxer and the adults in my family are all vaccinated, I'm just pointing out why many of these people may not be as worried about getting a vaccine if they rarely go anywhere populated and the virus transmission is incredibly low in their area.

 

[Irishize]

Let's try this a different way. It is inconsequential what people are currently saying about Ivermectin.

If Ivermectin is this magical pill that it's being made out to be and studies continue to back that up then at least one pharmaceutical company will jump in the mix and grab Ivermectin or an Ivermectin analogue and patent it for the mass distribution that will ensue.

This is really basic economics for a company (companies) known to follow the money.

Agree with your first statement although I’m open-minded enough to wait for the verdict to come in. As of today, it doesn’t look promising for ivermectin.

I’m sure it’s happened but I can’t imagine a pharma company investing in a patent for a molecule that is already commercially available in generic form. What idiot is going to pay for brand-name when the same molecule is available in generic form despite the lack of indication? Especially in an atmosphere where all we here is how crazy drug prices are in the US. A company would be better off investing in a vaccine if that’s the case and they are historically not a big revenue generator either.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Guys, this isn't rocket science.

If Ivermectin is a wonder drug, at least one pharmaceutical company will find a few analogues and put them through $$$ trials. They'll publish papers on the efficacy under the new drug name and they'll mass market the shit out of it until people link that particular drug name with effectiveness against COVID and it's variants.

PR fall out can happen but it rarely moves the needle for these companies that can take a minor black eye while raking in large amounts of cash.

And even if it doesn't play out how I imagine, Ivermectin's potential positive benefits will be picked up by other doctors and it'll take off like a wildfire. Give it a bit more time to play out.

 

[TorontoGold]

You're talking about a section of the country that was socially distancing before socially distancing was cool. Where I grew up in Ashland it's fairly conservative and only about 7% of the population has contracted COVID with less than 100 deaths per ~55,000 population. Compare that to a New York City with a nearly 50% of the state's COVID cases and twice the infection rate despite tighter lock downs and you can see why many rural counties may not be as worried about the vaccine. There are certainly counties in places with even more remote populations, some in Ohio hitting only 5% infected and as few as 17 deaths. I'm not an anti-vaxer and the adults in my family are all vaccinated, I'm just pointing out why many of these people may not be as worried about getting a vaccine if they rarely go anywhere populated and the virus transmission is incredibly low in their area.

I understand that sentiment, and a lot of my relatives see it the exact same way. I had to show them the cases per 1M chart to clue them in that it doesn't matter where they live it's doing a number all over. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Glad you and your family are vaccinated!

 

[Irish#1]

Guys, this isn't rocket science.

If Ivermectin is a wonder drug, at least one pharmaceutical company will find a few analogues and put them through $$$ trials. They'll publish papers on the efficacy under the new drug name and they'll mass market the shit out of it until people link that particular drug name with effectiveness against COVID and it's variants.

PR fall out can happen but it rarely moves the needle for these companies that can take a minor black eye while raking in large amounts of cash.

And even if it doesn't play out how I imagine, Ivermectin's potential positive benefits will be picked up by other doctors and it'll take off like a wildfire. Give it a bit more time to play out.

Spot on. Drug companies get black eyes all the time Stocks rarely dip to the point the company suffers significantly. About 30 days after the bad PR news, it's business as usual.

IMO, people who aren't getting vaccinated aren't doing it because of Trump. They aren't getting vaccinated because; 1) They don't care, 2) They are afraid of side affects or 3) They haven't seen a serious case where it caused death or a hospital stay. They still equate it to the flu.

My oldest son didn't vote for Trump and hasn't gotten vaccinated because he wants to see what the long term side affects are. We're basically sitting at 50% and given how easy it is to get vaccinated now, I don't expect this number to move much.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

You're talking about a section of the country that was socially distancing before socially distancing was cool. Where I grew up in Ashland it's fairly conservative and only about 7% of the population has contracted COVID with less than 100 deaths per ~55,000 population. Compare that to a New York City with a nearly 50% of the state's COVID cases and twice the infection rate despite tighter lock downs and you can see why many rural counties may not be as worried about the vaccine. There are certainly counties in places with even more remote populations, some in Ohio hitting only 5% infected and as few as 17 deaths. I'm not an anti-vaxer and the adults in my family are all vaccinated, I'm just pointing out why many of these people may not be as worried about getting a vaccine if they rarely go anywhere populated and the virus transmission is incredibly low in their area.

This is all fine and well but if one one of these unvaccinated people gets it and travels to densely populated unvaccinated areas (like I provided above) then its very much a concern. Above I wrote that current trends with unvacinnated people are that they are traveling on vacation or wherever and they tend to travel to areas that are also hot spots for densely populated unvacianted cities (The South primarily). Im concered (rightfully so IMO) about this thing hanging around simply becasue stubborn people wont od the right thing for their fellow americans.

 

[Irish#1]

This is all fine and well but if one one of these unvaccinated people gets it and travels to densely populated unvaccinated areas (like I provided above) then its very much a concern. Above I wrote that current trends with unvacinnated people are that they are traveling on vacation or wherever and they tend to travel to areas that are also hot spots for densely populated unvacianted cities (The South primarily). Im concered (rightfully so IMO) about this thing hanging around simply becasue stubborn people wont od the right thing for their fellow americans.

Given those going to the warmer states are usually going to the beach and will be outdoors it may not be as bad. I think around September when vacations are pretty much over we'll find out the real impact.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Don't know if this is true or not, but if this is how the clinical trial is being set up, it will fail.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/veryvirology/status/1407837908891955206[/TWEET]

 

[TorontoGold]

Don't know if this is true or not, but if this is how the clinical trial is being set up, it will fail.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/veryvirology/status/1407837908891955206[/TWEET]

That account is staunchly anti-vax. No links in the tweet to even an Epoch/Infowars report. Almost assuredly disinformation.

 

[ab2cmiller]

That account is staunchly anti-vax. No links in the tweet to even an Epoch/Infowars report. Almost assuredly disinformation.

Hopefully. I'm just hopeful that the Oxford trial is not structured in a way to preordain a result.