COVID-19

[IrishRazor82]

I'm 31 and have pretty much been hanging out on the couch because of a post-covid high HR. Thank God my main job is seasonal and I'm off until April.

They're increasingly finding evidence of heart issues in young people who have had covid, appearing 4-6 weeks after initial infection. That fits me perfectly, this showed up 2 weeks after I "beat" covid.

Take the damn vaccine.

Now pay researchers millions to study every virus and cold and you'll probably find similar issues.

 

[TorontoGold]

Now pay researchers millions to study every virus and cold and you'll probably find similar issues.

When you read this it'll blow your mind, people are paid to study viruses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virology

 

[RDU Irish]

Sounds like US may be heading towards half doses of Moderna for the 18-55 demo. If it speeds up roll out, great. I do think we will see J&J approved for use this month which is single dose and can be stored in normal refrigeration, so those two things taking place may speed up this recovery.

I am still baffled at vaccinating anyone under 70 who is not a healthcare/nursing care worker at this point of the roll out. How hard is it to prioritize the most vulnerable first? Hit entire facilities for example not this onesy twosy shit. And teachers - get them back to work and kids back to in person learning yesterday. That would do more for ancillary negatives like suicide, depression, etc. than anything.

 

[RDU Irish]

One out of every thousand of us is dead.

One out of every one hundred is dead (every year) - one tenth of those got Covid (too) in 2020.

Two weeks to flatten the curve.

 

[yankeehater]

All signs are pointing to an FDA approval for the drug Vyrologex (Leronlimab) hopefully by the end of the month. I mentioned this drug here back in June and it has been on my radar since March. Sadly, although this drug has proven safe in its HIV trial, the FDA still is making it go through the usual approval process unlike some of the Big Pharma drugs like remdesivir and bamlanivimab even though it has shown in trials to be upwards as 50% more effective for covid treatment. It is the only drug in Phase 3 Severe-to-Critical trial with mortality as its primary endpoint. That is what i would want to know is if the drug will save my life when the s hits the fan!

Although the FDA trial is ongoing, the FDA just allowed for an Open Label extension as the trial was full and doctors were demanding to be able to add patients for its use.

This could be the game changer we have all been waiting for. I am not saying it is a cure, but for a drug to save approx 60% of the most critical patients (i.e. on mechanical ventilation, multiple comorbidities, and even multi-organ donor recipients) is astounding.

Hopefully, the FDA will finally do the right thing and approve Leronlimab. Also the way the drug works, the new mutations should not alter its effectiveness.

 

[IrishRazor82]

One out of every thousand of us is dead.

Dieing *with* COVID =/ dieing *from* COVID. If we counted everyone who died *with* warts, people would think warts are deadly. Not to mention the incentives to overreport COVID "deaths".

Imagine how many elderly and/or vulnerable die each year because they're so close and a cold pushes them over the edge.

There will be studies in about 5 years and the results will look very different if I had to predict. I'm not saying COVID isn't real, it is. But I fear it no more than any other virus we live through year in and year out. I think it's closer to a cold with a name than it is as scary as the majority think it is.

 

[phork]

Dieing *with* COVID =/ dieing *from* COVID. If we counted everyone who died *with* warts, people would think warts are deadly. Not to mention the incentives to overreport COVID "deaths".

Imagine how many elderly and/or vulnerable die each year because they're so close and a cold pushes them over the edge.

There will be studies in about 5 years and the results will look very different if I had to predict.

... You know that information is captured right? Contributing causes and what not.

 

[IrishRazor82]

... You know that information is captured right? Contributing causes and what not.

It's actually not. We don't name and track every virus and every cold. And we don't directly pay extra to each hospital that records a particular virus as the cause of death.

 

[PerthDomer]

Flu mortality is generally assumed as deaths above baseline in the winter. The actual number of pcr positive for flu patients who die is substantially smaller than annual flu deaths (which capture flu and pneumonia). If you counted COVID deaths the same way we'd be north of 500k.

The studies on life years lost puts the average COVID death as costing about 10 life years per patient who dies.

 

[SonofOahu]

So far with the Moderna vaccine all of my guys reported a very sore injection arm and all developed a fever and felt shitty the next day to varying degrees. All were fine within 2 days. They go back for the booster in a couple of weeks. You also have to sit around for a half hour after the shot as a precaution.

My experience as well. Most sore I've ever felt from a shot. All in all, I felt much better than my wife and daughter did (who came down with it).

I think the second shot is worse. That's what we've been told to expect with the Pfizer shot, anyway.

 

[SonofOahu]

I'm not an anti-vaccer, our kids get all of their immunizations and we get the FLU shot each year. However, I'm not touching this COVID vaccine and my wife feels the same way.

It apparently doesn't stop transmission and I don't understand how much it helps if the survival rate is already ~99.7% with inflated reporting. I'm also seeing a lot of "bad experiences" get shared and then disappear from the internet. There's also substantial pushback from medical staff if ~40% are saying no thanks. And no one knows what the long term effects of it will be.

I've never been a conspiracy theorist but I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole. We're health and have had it (it was less than a cold), I see no reason to take a chance with a rushed vaccine with exactly 3 weeks worth of empirical data.

There's a lot of wrong in this paragraph, bud. I'll tell you what is fact, though, the part about 40% of the medical community not taking it. That's not that surprising. Flu vaccinations are not widely taken, either.

3 weeks worth of empirical data simply isn't accurate.

--Moderna released the data from it's first trials in May.

--By the time the Pfizer vaccine came out over 40,000 people had received it in the phase 3 trial.

--The researchers that developed the vaccine had developed the sequencing they'd need on it back in January not long after China released the virus' genetic sequence, which was possible because they piggy backed off research done from the first SARS outbreak in 2002.

I'm going to be more worried about the vaccine than COVID when they start loading vaccine victims into refrigerated trucks because there's no more room at the morgue.

This

 

[SonofOahu]

My company does this with WC cases some times. Caught one guy deer hunting and another playing softball that messed up their claims.

Yup, I've been on the company side of this type of operation. Always fun times.

 

[SonofOahu]

It's actually not. We don't name and track every virus and every cold. And we don't directly pay extra to each hospital that records a particular virus as the cause of death.

What the fuck are you talking about? Hospitals are required to report flu cases, and there's a test that literally confirms a battery of non-SARS-CoV-2 coronaviruses. Physicians have to know what they're treating, it's not sorcery.

Hospitals aren't paid because they name a particular virus, they are paid based on DRGs (diagnosis related groups) whereby complex cases are reimbursed at higher rates because they require more work and resources. COVID-19 patients are some of the most complex cases medical professionals will see in their lifetime. You obviously don't know what you're squawking about; unfortunately for you, there are a number of us on this board who do.

Peddle your bullshit on some other site.

 

[TorontoGold]

Oahu - how come the second shot is supposed to be worse/hurt more? Bigger needle? Lol

 

[NorthDakota]

Oahu - how come the second shot is supposed to be worse/hurt more? Bigger needle? Lol

Because they are so busy celebrating the first shot with bourbon and cigars and eventually that catches up to you

 

[SonofOahu]

Oahu - how come the second shot is supposed to be worse/hurt more? Bigger needle? Lol

I have no idea. One would think that the second shot would be easier, since you're already in the midst of the 1st-shot effects. Maybe it's because the body can respond more violently with reinforcements, once it's exposed to the first wave? The biggest risk is anaphylaxis, and that's basically the body's overreaction and hypersensitivity to adverse stimuli...

also know as the ND Post-Game Thread syndrome.

 

[TorontoGold]

I have no idea. One would think that the second shot would be easier, since you're already in the midst of the 1st-shot effects. Maybe it's because the body can respond more violently with reinforcements, once it's exposed to the first wave? The biggest risk is anaphylaxis, and that's basically the body's overreaction and hypersensitivity to adverse stimuli...

also know as the ND Post-Game Thread syndrome.

So you're saying we need better blue chip vaccine candidates?! OR that the doctor administering them is just not going to cut if we want to beat COVID?

Thanks for the science behind it!

 

[SonofOahu]

So you're saying we need better blue chip vaccine candidates?! OR that the doctor administering them is just not going to cut if we want to beat COVID?

Thanks for the science behind it!

I know you come from a country with commie medicine and all, but the day I see a physician dishing out shots to the peons is the day every nurse in the state has died.

 

[Legacy]

- Vaccines are meant to stimulate an immune response which can elicit soreness at the injection site. A second dose may trigger a stronger response, temporarily. mRNA vaccines are not any different.

- A second dose will boost immunity to levels that have been studied in the Phase III trials. The second dose booster operates within that environment of the established immunity. The reaction may be stronger.

- Many states or hospitals require flu vaccines of those employees who have direct patient care. Flu vaccines though have inactivated viral particles. So we rely on reports from China and Asia on what type of influenza virus is circulating to generate the vaccine. We probably will not get to that point with the Covid vaccines.

- Should someone own a long term care institution where a number of caregivers have chosen not to get the vaccine and whose non-professionals feel they need to come to work though they may have symptoms, you could be concerned especially if you are operating without adequate PPE.

- Often it's wise to separate different vaccines administrations. One may want to separate any flu vaccine and a Covid vaccine by a couple of weeks. Hopefully, the flu season will not be bad. I wouldn't want to get one and then the other. Soldier on, I guess.

 

[RDU Irish]

Flu mortality is generally assumed as deaths above baseline in the winter. The actual number of pcr positive for flu patients who die is substantially smaller than annual flu deaths (which capture flu and pneumonia). If you counted COVID deaths the same way we'd be north of 500k.

The studies on life years lost puts the average COVID death as costing about 10 life years per patient who dies.

Curious how that compares to the flu. Seems kind of high if the average age of Covid death is still around 80.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Curious how that compares to the flu. Seems kind of high if the average age of Covid death is still around 80.

Agreed. With around half the deaths coming from nursing homes where around 65% of people typically die within a year of admission, the number seems crazy high.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Oahu,
You hearing anything about a worse reaction to the vaccine from people who tested positive for Covid previously? Not a huge sample size from the guys I work with but they noticed a correlation to who seemed to react the worst.

 

[RDU Irish]

Agreed. With around half the deaths coming from nursing homes where around 65% of people typically die within a year of admission, the number seems crazy high.

Upon further review - if I am reading this single life expectancy table correctly, I see someone who makes it to 80 is expected to live 10.2 more years someone who makes it to 70 is expected to live 17.0 more years. That is broad population ignoring any co-morbidities, etc. So maybe that does line up with such a high average age of death.

 

[ab2cmiller]

It looks like they calculated the number of life years lost based upon life expectancies of the average person given their age and sex. Problem is that again the vast majority of people who are dying are not average. The vast majority of people who die have underlying conditions. Again, specifically the people that are in nursing homes are most likely going to pass within a year of admission. Social Security and Census Data may say that a person who is 75 can expect to live an additional 10 years on average. But that 75 year old in a nursing home has most likely lost 1 year tops.

Data analysis - Garbage in garbage out


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200923124557.htm

They then compared the ages at death to life expectancies by age and gender from the U.S. Social Security Administration and to population data from the U.S. Census Bureau

 

[RDU Irish]

It looks like they calculated the number of life years lost based upon life expectancies of the average person given their age and sex. Problem is that again the vast majority of people who are dying are not average. The vast majority of people who die have underlying conditions. Again, specifically the people that are in nursing homes are most likely going to pass within a year of admission. Social Security and Census Data may say that a person who is 75 can expect to live an additional 10 years on average. But that 75 year old in a nursing home has most likely lost 1 year tops.

Data analysis - Garbage in garbage out


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200923124557.htm

Thanks for digging deeper. That is a complete garbage study to make it look MUCH worse than it actually is, I wish that was shocking. No adjustments for co-morbidities is beyond lazy.

 

[Old Man Mike]

This damm virus IS killing people and in large numbers, and people are b!tching about whether it has killed one in a thousand or "just" half that? Must be very relaxing to sit in one's armchair and depersonalize this as if it was an accounting sheet.

A saint once said: not knowing might relieve one of a feeling of responsibility, but it's still not the moral choice.

 

[ab2cmiller]

This damm virus IS killing people and in large numbers, and people are b!tching about whether it has killed one in a thousand or "just" half that? Must be very relaxing to sit in one's armchair and depersonalize this as if it was an accounting sheet.

A saint once said: not knowing might relieve one of a feeling of responsibility, but it's still not the moral choice.

And you sit back in your armchair judging people based upon your perceptions on how you think people are depersonalizing it. In reality, you have no clue. Do you think that because I have a mathematical mindset and can use just a bit of logic to debunk an exaggerated stat that somehow that makes me uncaring?

It is personal to me. In July I lost my Step Mother to COVID. She had AFib and likely could've lived for quite some time but her heart could only take so much as she had multiple episodes in the hospital while trying to deal with COVID and we lost her. Unlike many others, she probably actually did have 10 years lost.

This doesn't change the fact that people on both sides aren't being honest. In reality, I just want honest facts about this issue. Instead, we get manipulated news on both sides. Tons of people who feel it's their job to scare the public into taking this thing seriously so they exaggerate the facts and they don't even blink because the ends justify the means. Tons of people who dismiss everything about COVID because it's their job to stand up to some of the exaggerations and want to prove that they are not sheep.

Even the revered Dr. Fauci has admitted to telling lies on the issues. He justifies them because they were necessary to achieve something that he felt was important at the time. How are we supposed to believe anything that he says? I guess he's admitted he's lied so I guess that's something.

 

[IrishRazor82]

This damm virus IS killing people and in large numbers, and people are b!tching about whether it has killed one in a thousand or "just" half that? Must be very relaxing to sit in one's armchair and depersonalize this as if it was an accounting sheet.

A saint once said: not knowing might relieve one of a feeling of responsibility, but it's still not the moral choice.

When the response has caused the country to crumble, yes, we should absolutely be asking these questions.

Do you not care about increased suicides? Major increases in depression, primarily in young adults and elderly? Do you care about increased domestic abuse? Significant disruptions in children's learning during critical years? 15,000 small business owners who've put their lives into providing a value to their local community and making a living with their family being forced to close out of no fault of their own? Do you care about the increased reliance on alcohol and medications this has caused?

This list is LONG. So please don't act like we don't care about life - quite the contrary. We value it above all else, and to continue to drive people into irreversible turmoil in so many categories we cannot keep track, only to "prevent" a disease that is going to spread regardless, whose reporting is clearly skewed towards over reporting, is absolutely what we should be talking about.

 

[SonofOahu]

Because they are so busy celebrating the first shot with bourbon and cigars and eventually that catches up to you

Funny, there was an article recently that advised against drinking alcohol right after you get the vaccine. I horribly failed that guidance.

 

[SonofOahu]

- Vaccines are meant to stimulate an immune response which can elicit soreness at the injection site. A second dose may trigger a stronger response, temporarily. mRNA vaccines are not any different.

- A second dose will boost immunity to levels that have been studied in the Phase III trials. The second dose booster operates within that environment of the established immunity. The reaction may be stronger.

- Many states or hospitals require flu vaccines of those employees who have direct patient care. Flu vaccines though have inactivated viral particles. So we rely on reports from China and Asia on what type of influenza virus is circulating to generate the vaccine. We probably will not get to that point with the Covid vaccines.

- Should someone own a long term care institution where a number of caregivers have chosen not to get the vaccine and whose non-professionals feel they need to come to work though they may have symptoms, you could be concerned especially if you are operating without adequate PPE.

- Often it's wise to separate different vaccines administrations. One may want to separate any flu vaccine and a Covid vaccine by a couple of weeks. Hopefully, the flu season will not be bad. I wouldn't want to get one and then the other. Soldier on, I guess.

I tried to rep you, but apparently I rep you too often.