COVID-19

SonofOahu

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LOL. I'm not right just confused. I believe in science and medicine. But which scientists and doctors are correct?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Cheers and Go Irish!!

This is a new virus; it's been loose in the world for six (6) months. If you take a step back and think about that fact, it's actually remarkable that we know as much as we do. We are learning as we go. You think it's hard on the public? Imagine having to keep flip-flopping procedures and directives based on those constant changes.

In the early stages of this illness, we were checking the CDC site 3x a day because guidance changes were occurring so frequently. Also, some of those directives were purposely misleading to prevent panic and anarchy. The mask guidance, in particular, was purposely misleading.
 

TorontoGold

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A. Trump didn't move fast enough, and his weeble-wobbling between taking things seriously then blowing it off compounds the issue. States can do what makes sense for the whole state, not just for some idiots who don't think the problem can come to them too.

B. Their feelings are, frankly, irrelevant to public health. Allowing some to move freely while locking down others will not work in America. Look at how quickly NY moved to squash that idea, even though that's what China did to Wuhan. It's really all or nothing.

C. I'll say it for the dozen-th time in this forum: If the GOP cared about mental health, they would stop trying to gut Medicaid. Our economy will suffer worse fates, if we keep starting and stopping due to COVID flare-ups. But, hey, I have cash sitting on the sideline, right now, let's do it! Open everything back up so we can go right back to exponential growth rates and market crashes.

Bingo. Nothing better for your mental health than sacrificing your physical health for your corporate overlords.
 

notredomer23

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Cuomo just announced aggressive antibody testing will take place this week. What happens when we find out 50%+ of the population has antibodies?
 

PerthDomer

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I'd be careful and look at positives in NYC vs Albany. Anti ody tests notoriously have issues (the flu one is garbage) so if you test a population with minimal exposure with a test that's not perfectly specific you get a lot of false positives. On the other hand if not sensitive you get a lot of false negatives.
 

Irish YJ

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Also said the media is pushing "panic porn", and trying to put hot sauce on a jalapeno lol...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“We need the news to calm down and treat us like adults. Trump calls you fake news. Don’t make him be right.” - Bill Maher <a href="https://t.co/nKiejYhJEp">pic.twitter.com/nKiejYhJEp</a></p>— James O'Keefe (@JamesOKeefeIII) <a href="https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1251359841613946881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

notredomer23

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It sure would make reopening a bit easier if that's what we find.

While I don’t think it will be 50%, I do think we’re gonna be shocked at how many people actually had this. I have a few friends that definitely had it but couldn’t get tested because they were too young and healthy. Then take into account the asymptomatic. It’s gonna be a lot
 

Irish YJ

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While I don’t think it will be 50%, I do think we’re gonna be shocked at how many people actually had this. I have a few friends that definitely had it but couldn’t get tested because they were too young and healthy. Then take into account the asymptomatic. It’s gonna be a lot

I have two friends that have it. One went to the ICU and recovered, one is still feeling horrible (been almost 2 weeks of bad symptoms) quarantining at home. The one still quarantining was extremely careful and still managed to catch it. A very high number would not shock me at all, but I'd be a little surprised if it's over 30%.
 

PerthDomer

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If the Roosevelt has 15% with it given their crowded conditions I'd be very surprised if anywhere not named NYC is actually that high. Remember SF and Seattle didn't explode like NYC, the explosion of cases came from outlying suburbs. I think the answer is 10ish times more people have it than positive and the mortality rate under perfect conditions is probably 0.5% to 1.0%. Under crisis conditions that probably goes up significantly which is why we're doing what we're doing.
 

yankeehater

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If the Roosevelt has 15% with it given their crowded conditions I'd be very surprised if anywhere not named NYC is actually that high. Remember SF and Seattle didn't explode like NYC, the explosion of cases came from outlying suburbs. I think the answer is 10ish times more people have it than positive and the mortality rate under perfect conditions is probably 0.5% to 1.0%. Under crisis conditions that probably goes up significantly which is why we're doing what we're doing.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/...-suggests-far-more-infections-in-15208919.php

This Stanford study of Santa Clara County shows the number up in the Bay Area could have been much higher than reported. Right now there are less than 2000 "reported cases" in the county. The antibody testing shows that on the low end 48,000 residents have had the virus. A lot of us on the west coast experienced mystery illnesses earlier in the year. The flu season was reportedly very strong this year or was it? When did covid tests begin in March? California does a lot of business/interaction with China so while testing numbers may be low out here there are a lot of people on the west that feel the numbers are much higher. I am hoping to get an antibody test to see if my five days of asthma like conditions and cough in early February were from Covid. This hit me less than five days after making two visits to a medical building in Irvine.
 

notredomer23

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If the Roosevelt has 15% with it given their crowded conditions I'd be very surprised if anywhere not named NYC is actually that high. Remember SF and Seattle didn't explode like NYC, the explosion of cases came from outlying suburbs. I think the answer is 10ish times more people have it than positive and the mortality rate under perfect conditions is probably 0.5% to 1.0%. Under crisis conditions that probably goes up significantly which is why we're doing what we're doing.

When was the first actual case on the Roosevelt? Most are theorizing that the first actual COVID case in NYC was January, so it could have spread unchecked for 40+ days. Again, I don’t think we’re gonna see 50%, but it would actually be incredibly good news were that the case.
 

Irish YJ

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Pelosi trying to spin her "come to Chinatown" crap with Chris Wallace... lol.. talking about hate crimes and other stupid shit.

She is truly the worst... holy cow.
 

arahop

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Pelosi trying to spin her "come to Chinatown" crap with Chris Wallace... lol.. talking about hate crimes and other stupid shit.

She is truly the worst... holy cow.

She is really bad. Her And Donald can both kick rocks.
 

PerthDomer

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https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/...-suggests-far-more-infections-in-15208919.php

This Stanford study of Santa Clara County shows the number up in the Bay Area could have been much higher than reported. Right now there are less than 2000 "reported cases" in the county. The antibody testing shows that on the low end 48,000 residents have had the virus. A lot of us on the west coast experienced mystery illnesses earlier in the year. The flu season was reportedly very strong this year or was it? When did covid tests begin in March? California does a lot of business/interaction with China so while testing numbers may be low out here there are a lot of people on the west that feel the numbers are much higher. I am hoping to get an antibody test to see if my five days of asthma like conditions and cough in early February were from Covid. This hit me less than five days after making two visits to a medical building in Irvine.

What the study proves is that if you have low prevalence of disease a test with even good specificity is crap. The raw prevalence was 1.5%. They then decided the data was skewed by where and whom responses came from, so they mathed their way to higher numbers. Additionally the study drew from volunteers, likely people concerned they may have been infected. To top that off, the test makers estimate 98.3 to 100% specificity. If their test were 99% specific over half the positives would be expected to be false positives.

Santa Clara is also part of the epicenter of cases in norcal. They're #4 in case number for all counties in California. So yea, outside of NYC NOLA etc. I'd expect few places to have their number of cases.
 
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NOLAIrish

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What the study proves is that if you have low prevalence of disease a test with even good specificity is crap. The raw prevalence was 1.5%. They then decided the data was skewed by where and whom responses came from, so they mathed their way to higher numbers. Additionally the study drew from volunteers, likely people concerned they may have been infected. To top that off, the test makers estimate 98.3 to 100% specificity. If their test were 99% specific over half the positives would be expected to be false positives.

Santa Clara is also part of the epicenter of cases in norcal. They're #4 in case number for all counties in California. So yea, outside of NYC NOLA etc. I'd expect few places to have their number of cases.

This is also a really good demonstration of the difficulty we're going to face of using the antibody testing to determine who can go back to work.

Suppose you gave a typical person the following hypothetical: "I have an antibody test that has 99% specificity and 100% sensitivity. At this point, we have good evidence the true prevalence of this disease is 1%. I've tested 10,000 people and you were one of the positives. How likely are you to actually have protective antibodies?"

Most people would answer "99%." That answer is very understandable -- when the test comes back positive, it is correct 99 times out of 100. The answer is also wrong.

If you test 10,000 people among whom the disease has a 1% prevalence, you will generate 100 true positives -- that is people who test positive and actually have the disease. Unfortunately, given the 99% specificity, you will also generate 100 false positives -- people who test positive but have no COVID-19 antibodies. So if you are an individual among those 10,000 and you have just been handed a positive result, it's actually even odds that you are not in fact protected from the disease at all (i.e. 100 people in the sample have a positive test and have protective antibodies and 100 people in the sample have a positive test and have no protective antibodies).

This is the reason we use confirmatory screening, but the cause of the false positive must not be replicated by the confirmatory screening or it's of no value. It will take time to get the testing correct even when we have tools that we are reasonably confident have high specificity and high sensitivity. But that will require both patience and sufficient faith in the public health community to believe that 99% specificity alone isn't something you ought to bet your health on.
 

Irishize

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So, Rubio crashed and burned in his attempt to be president largely over a failed attempt at drinking bottled water. Meanwhile....f*#!in hell.

So much for setting aside your opinion of Rubio. You’re like the guy that shouts “Brian Kelly killed a kid!”everytime something positive is said about his coaching success at ND.
 

Bluto

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So much for setting aside your opinion of Rubio. You’re like the guy that shouts “Brian Kelly killed a kid!”everytime something positive is said about his coaching success at ND.

I think you miss understood my post. It was more of a pot shot at the current occupant in the Whitehouse. Rubio was sunk by one bad TV moment. The current POTUS one the other hand was caught on a hot mike talking about “grab em by the pussy”.

For the record I think Kelly is a pretty good college football coach.
 

NorthDakota

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I spoke with the judge I had planned on interning for this summer.

He said unless shit hits the fan we are going to be good to go for working in person.

I was very nervous, many of my classmates took jobs in the city and are now in limbo regarding their summer jobs. Jokes on them for making rude comments about me deciding to go home for the summer lmao.
 

Legacy

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Congrats, Dakota.

YJ, I saw that Indians can now see the Himalayas.

Everyone understands the daily risk healthcare workers including first responders run as well as their concerns about transmitting this nasty virulent bug. How would you use the antibody testing for them going forward considering NOLA's observation:

If you test 10,000 people among whom the disease has a 1% prevalence, you will generate 100 true positives -- that is people who test positive and actually have the disease. Unfortunately, given the 99% specificity, you will also generate 100 false positives -- people who test positive but have no COVID-19 antibodies. So if you are an individual among those 10,000 and you have just been handed a positive result, it's actually even odds that you are not in fact protected from the disease at all (i.e. 100 people in the sample have a positive test and have protective antibodies and 100 people in the sample have a positive test and have no protective antibodies).
 

TorontoGold

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No one said to “dismiss all other forecasts...”...nobody. But to rely on the ones that have been proven flawed and wildly erroneous is beyond ignorant.

Everyone set aside what you think about Marco Rubio’s politics and listen to his remarks. In this situation all options are bad...for the sake of America, we have to pick the least bad option. To further set aside politics (b/c this isn’t’ the appropriate thread but I know some people jump to conclusions), Rubio’s comments were re-tweeted by an MSNBC commentator.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is genuinely refreshing. <a href="https://t.co/l6FizbWCIe">https://t.co/l6FizbWCIe</a></p>— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) <a href="https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/status/1250464397027348480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

His message when it hits 1:23 is pretty good and is factual. Doesn't have any "sacfice the old for the economy" and "We won't be able to go outside till 2021".

I think Marco would make a pretty good 2024 candidate (if he can beat out Ivanka/Jr).
 

NorthDakota

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His message when it hits 1:23 is pretty good and is factual. Doesn't have any "sacfice the old for the economy" and "We won't be able to go outside till 2021".

I think Marco would make a pretty good 2024 candidate (if he can beat out Ivanka/Jr).

Nomination already belongs to Nikki Haley if she can avoid any disasters. For men, I'd bet Cruz over Lil Marco.

GOP will go the way of DNC if necessary to make sure the establishment gets to pick.
 

InKellyWeTrust

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Congrats, Dakota.

YJ, I saw that Indians can now see the Himalayas.

Everyone understands the daily risk healthcare workers including first responders run as well as their concerns about transmitting this nasty virulent bug. How would you use the antibody testing for them going forward considering NOLA's observation:

No test is perfect. And the danger here is obvious - you dont want to falsely tell someone they have antibodies and therefore some form of immunity to COVID19. However, the prevalence of seroconverted health care workers is very likely much higher than 1%. At 10% prevalence the positive predictive value is much higher - around 90%. I'd take those odds and feel pretty comfortable with a positive test. Also, at some point we have to use antibody tests to determine the prevalence of the disease in our population.
 

NDdomer2

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man this thing has almost went full politics in the last week or so.

This may have already been discussed further back but something interesting i caught in an email from one of our Nursing Directors.

When discussing patient rule outs for COVID she mentions is remains a very confusing picture. Stating "We are “counting” more than shows on the dashboard due to requests for second tests after an initial negative."

My immediate question goes to the reported data at county, state, country levels. Our negative tests and therefore any percentages used may be flawed by not being calculated per patient instead of per test.
 

ab2cmiller

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man this thing has almost went full politics in the last week or so.

This may have already been discussed further back but something interesting i caught in an email from one of our Nursing Directors.

When discussing patient rule outs for COVID she mentions is remains a very confusing picture. Stating "We are “counting” more than shows on the dashboard due to requests for second tests after an initial negative."

My immediate question goes to the reported data at county, state, country levels. Our negative tests and therefore any percentages used may be flawed by not being calculated per patient instead of per test.

Yeah I calculated that a 20% positive rate turns into approximately 28% positive rate assuming 30% of the people who are actually positive had a false negative.

Obviously some of those people took the test again and they actually came back positive. So the answer is probably somewhere in between 20 and 28 percent positive rate. Not sure if that is significant enough to worry about or not. Showing results on a per patient basis would be more accurate.
 

irishff1014

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man this thing has almost went full politics in the last week or so.

This may have already been discussed further back but something interesting i caught in an email from one of our Nursing Directors.

When discussing patient rule outs for COVID she mentions is remains a very confusing picture. Stating "We are “counting” more than shows on the dashboard due to requests for second tests after an initial negative."

My immediate question goes to the reported data at county, state, country levels. Our negative tests and therefore any percentages used may be flawed by not being calculated per patient instead of per test.

I have been saying this all along. It’s no different the. You going to get a strep test done at the doctors office with a negative and then 24 hours they call you oh by the way we called you in an antibiotic your test can back positive. It happens with a large percentages off sickness. So this should be no different.
 
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