COVID-19

[InKellyWeTrust]

For those on the continuing of mitigating side of the fence, when would you be OK with that ending? I hear the until it is safe being thrown around (not sure what that even means). From what I have read to truly stop the virus, 60% of the population must have the antibodies which mitigation stops from happening. I also hear people say when there is a vaccine. We have all heard the doctors say that best case scenario is 12-18 months. Is that when you will be OK with opening things back up? There are currently seven known Corona viruses. Four of them cause the common cold and the other three are SARS, MERS and COVID 19. There is no vaccine for the common cold today as well as MERS. They stopped working on the one for SARS because the virus went away. What happens if there is no vaccine?

1) you have to get the number of active infections down to a fraction of what they are now. This would likely be state to state, city to city decisions because of the diversity of our country's demographics
2) to be able to know the true number of active infections we have to be able to broaden the scope of testing to include ALL those with compatible symptoms. This would need to be perhaps 500k to a million per day, at least to start. The turnaround time also needs to improve significantly and be more homogeneous across our population.
3) there would need to be some sort of practical way to contact trace and test close contacts of positive cases in order to shut down local and regional outbreaks before they are unmanageable by individual quarantines alone.
4) a reliable antibody test to, at minimum, be used in healthcare and essential jobs with close contact to hundreds of people per day.
5) not a requirement but something that would dramatically improve our situation is an evidence-based, effective treatment preferably one that would decrease need for hospitalizations

Bottom line - more testing, ability to trace contacts that wouldn't infringe on our constitution, and well on the backend of the curve. Also, each state/metro area needs to make the decision for themselves based off all the above. BUT, there needs to be country wide parameters in place because we dont want one boneheaded mayor or governor making a poor decision risking the work and effort of all the others across the country.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Another thing worth bringing up again - reliability of testing. Given the way testing needed to fast tracked to meet the demand up front, the reliability is really difficult to determine. A negative test doesn't mean you dont have the disease. I've seen quotes anywhere from 20-30% false negative rate. This is going to become more and more an issue as this rolls along.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I think you can agree the average person is a dumbass, otherwise you wouldnt need stay at home orders.

Please highlight when I said I wish covid on you. Follow your own signature line my guy.

Your distain for the average person is really unbecoming. No, I don't agree. I think the average person has enough reason to take precautionary action to avoid the spread of a virus upon medical experts' opinion. And they need not be lied to about the situation.

You tried to be snarky and say, "good luck on getting whatever your coworkers have at the office."

 

[Legacy]

Cheaper though, right? How are you, man? I hope that all is well, and I hope that you and your fam are safe.



Legacy, you understand healthcare from a c-suite perspective. This pandemic is the most interesting and scary thing that any of us (in the business of health) will ever witness in our lifetimes. It's going to fundamentally change lifestyles for a decade, and will change healthcare probably forever.

I say no less than 20% of American hospitals will go bankrupt by 2022. This is going to speed up consolidation and the "too big to fail" movement in healthcare, and you're probably going to see huge investments in treatment/research collaborations across all continents.

Gloom and Doom here.

Good to get your insight. Setting the table, the HC system like any other business relies on covering their costs and making some profit. Only one of the large hospitals locally has acquired smaller ones throughout the state. There's one public hospital in the state. A tiered system of HC in that state involves consults, referrals and transport of patients from clinics to small hospital with limited staff and facilities to the large hospitals. None can refuse treatment regardless of whether they will be reimbursed. COVID-19 has effectively ended profit-making arms across the board. Those larger hospitals at the top part of the tier balance the losses of most rural parts of the system with profits from parts. In cutting costs currently, HC professionals are having their contracts cut back and some have layoff employees. Narrowing Medicaid reimbursements, increasing equipment costs, more citizens faced with unaffordable HC insurance and an aging population, etc. further narrow their margins. Federal insurances reimbursements are typically much later than private insurances'. With the ACA, the fed gov established direct payments to providers, which included hospitals, but fixed reimbursements based on admission diagnoses, which have specific criteria. Hospital systems also rely on state's provide some funding.

Health insurance companies are currently calculating projected increases in their costs for the coming year and will project them to the state insurance commissions for rate raises to participate in the individual markets. Insurance companies do not like changes and uncertainty in the markets.

I'm sure everyone can see where this leads, especially with changes in any of these factors. The head of the National Rural Health Association, which represents 21,000 health care providers and hospitals, said:

“If we’re not able to address the short-term cash needs of rural hospitals, we’re going to see hundreds of rural hospitals close before this crisis ends. This is not hyperbole.”

With the Swine Flu pandemic, hospital administrators took a twenty-five percent cut and hiring was frozen. But money-making operations did not cease and there was not the drain on higher costs of care as in such a preponderance of ICU care.

That's why I say the HC system will never be the same.

 

[Irish2155]

Your distain for the average person is really unbecoming. No, I don't agree. I think the average person has enough reason to take precautionary action to avoid the spread of a virus upon medical experts' opinion. And they need not be lied to about the situation.

You tried to be snarky and say, "good luck on getting whatever your coworkers have at the office."

You'd be surprised my friend. My product has been people for a long time and I can tell you that there are a lot of dumb ones out there regardless of education level...

 

[ClausentoTate]

Your distain for the average person is really unbecoming. No, I don't agree. I think the average person has enough reason to take precautionary action to avoid the spread of a virus upon medical experts' opinion. And they need not be lied to about the situation.

You tried to be snarky and say, "good luck on getting whatever your coworkers have at the office."

Until we get widely-available, reliable (very few false negatives) and quick testing, flattening the curve is an all-or-nothing proposition. You can't trust the average person to take medical recommendations seriously especially when it tells them to do something they don't want to do. My family won't even take heart attacks or diabetes seriously, why would they take the potential for "just a cough" seriously? You might be reasonable but I can guarantee you the average person is not.

This thing is so much more infectious than the common cold or the flu... it really does only take a few people to restart the curve. We've seen it completely wipe out nursing homes and large group gatherings.

In an ideal scenario where it's not widespread yet - What do you even do? Do you lock the city down completely? Nobody in or out? Do you wait to social distance until it's not "safe" anymore? It's a 5-14 day incubation period so once you see it it's already wide-spread. Do you allow individuals to decide? If so, how do you safeguard others? Do you start an antibodies identification system where you can only go into an office after you've gotten immunity? Do we even know at this point if someone can get it a second time? There's just a ton of practical and ethical questions we need to make as a country.

 

[TorontoGold]

Your distain for the average person is really unbecoming. No, I don't agree. I think the average person has enough reason to take precautionary action to avoid the spread of a virus upon medical experts' opinion. And they need not be lied to about the situation.

You tried to be snarky and say, "good luck on getting whatever your coworkers have at the office."

You know, the average person will include people from the Left. You can't lose your mind at everything they say and then get your back up when I say the average person isn't intelligent. Look at what's happened with toilette paper, would intelligent people do that?

I think bold text there is key. If you claim to have the ability to work from home but choose to go into your office, then yes you are sharing air space with those people and the places they go.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The flu doesn't result in an overburdened hospital system because of the prevalence of respiratory issues, though.

Can you really not see that social distancing has saved most places from the crisis that New York is experiencing?

The flu doesn't create that kind of crisis. The danger isn't the death rate. The danger is running out of space for sick people who can't breath. THEN the death rate would become a crisis.

I'm fine with social distancing. I like how Sweden and the Netherlands dealt with this.bkept everything open, social distance, old people stay home, etc.

What I'm saying is that you don't Titanic the economy of a nation of 335 million people because you don't want hospitals to fill up.(and how many outside of NYC metropolitan area are actually in crisis?)
Throw up more temporary hospitals in the crisis areas and potential hot spots if that's the main concern. And yet we have empty ships off the coast.
Sweden and Holland had it right.

 

[notredomer23]

I'm fine with social distancing. I like how Sweden and the Netherlands dealt with this.bkept everything open, social distance, old people stay home, etc.

What I'm saying is that you don't Titanic the economy of a nation of 335 million people because you don't want hospitals to fill up.(and how many outside of NYC metropolitan area are actually in crisis?)
Throw up more temporary hospitals in the crisis areas and potential hot spots if that's the main concern. And yet we have empty ships off the coast.
Sweden and Holland had it right.

Sweden is TBD, and early returns are their method is not working. Per capita, they have one of the highest rates in the Europe.

 

[JurDocDuLac]

The Netherlands is a neighbor (friends and colleagues there) and they definitely have not kept everything open.

Some of the official restrictions are "recommended", so mileage will vary, but come on, were talking about the cold, distant, semi-neurotic Dutch. For example, you can go outside for "legitimate reasons" but the police take action against groups of more than 2 people who are not keeping a 1.5 meters distance from one another (you get an official warning, with fines possible).

And, some restrictions are not voluntary and you can get fined, closed down, arrested, etc for violation. For example, until at least 28 April (may be adjusted), and some until 1 June:

Schools, childcare, universities closed. All education is on-line.

All bars, cafés and restaurants are closed (takeaway is ok). Casinos, sports clubs, gyms, saunas and sex clubs are closed (yes, the Amsterdam red light district and mj cafes are closed). All those in "contact-based roles" must stop performing their jobs, eg masseurs, hairdressers, nail stylists, escorts, etc (yes, "escorts").

All shops and markets closed and public transport services ceased unless granted an exemption (requires application, fulfillment of distancing conditions and inspections).

You can still ride your bike, of course!

Large events that require a permit are banned until 1 June. Other social gatherings are banned with very few exceptions (e.g. religious ceremonies with less than 30 people and can ensure 1.5 meters distancing).

Public places such as museums, concert halls and cinemas are closed. All recreational locations (public asnd private) such as campsites, holiday parks, parks, nature conservation areas and beaches are closed.

Sweden, I don´t know the restrictions, but I know Swedes and Swedish character and they would very seriously apply even recommended restrictions.

Really don´t think they are models for the outgoing, relaxed, informal, open, friendly, partying character of our US of A.

 

[JurDocDuLac]

Three countries that talked about herd-immunity (Netherlands, Sweden, Brazil) have frightening death to recovery rates (Netherlands and Sweden are highly reliable data; data from Worldometers).

Netherlands (which in fact does have significant closures and restrictions)
2,511 dead / 250 recovered
--
Sweden
870 dead / 381 recovered
--
Brazil
1,057 dead /173 recovered

So maybe the jury is still out on that approach.

 

[JurDocDuLac]

And I should add the UK, which also talked about herd-immunity:

8,958 dead / 135 recovered (136 with Boris, God willing)

 

[phork]

I'm fine with social distancing. I like how Sweden and the Netherlands dealt with this.bkept everything open, social distance, old people stay home, etc.

What I'm saying is that you don't Titanic the economy of a nation of 335 million people because you don't want hospitals to fill up.(and how many outside of NYC metropolitan area are actually in crisis?)
Throw up more temporary hospitals in the crisis areas and potential hot spots if that's the main concern. And yet we have empty ships off the coast.
Sweden and Holland had it right.

Detroit is bad as well. Hospitals filling up is the worst case scenario where you are literally making a decision to let someone die because there isnt enough vents to go around.

 

[Circa]

Why would I be surprised? I've been in IT since 1972. I've dealt with users of all ages for more years than I care to remember.

Of course there are older people who are afraid, but there are people of all ages who are scared to use technology in fear of downloading a virus or ransomware. I had an employee in her late 40's or early 50's open an email that was obviously spam. It locked up her PC. Her reply, "I know I shouldn't have done that, but I couldn't resist".

You're the one on here criticizing some posters for not providing specifics, yet you try to refute my post that provides two sources with nothing more than a generalized statement that you "know people".

Good to know now. I'm not trying to outsmart ya and I knew I couldn't about this specific topic... Or any other for that matter.

 

[Legacy]

Since this has been on Fox and other MSM, many of you already know that New Orleans has a per-capita death rate twice that of New York City. I have a fondness for that city and admire how they recovered from Katrina. When you made minimum wage or less, you could still put together enough money to get a red beans and rice dish with a soda that stuck with you the rest of the day. The food, the music, the underground or counter-culture, the mix of Caribbean, French, Catholic and Southern. Laissez les bons temps rouler, y'all.

 

[SonofOahu]

US has about 600 confirmed cases now, per link below:

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Could get wild here in the next few weeks. Stay safe, boys.

Wild Bill started this thread a month ago, and look how much has happened since then. A month. The speed at which this virus has torn the world up, is only rivaled by the speed at which the world of physicians, scientists, and other researchers are working to learn SARS-CoV-2's secrets so that they can, in turn, tear it up.

Craziness.

 

[SonofOahu]

Why would I be surprised? I've been in IT since 1972. I've dealt with users of all ages for more years than I care to remember.

What was IT like back in '72, a bunch of guys in short-sleeves and ties taking turns pulling the big floppies out of room-sized servers?

Seriously, though, that's really fascinating. You've watched the entire industry grow from its infancy.

 

[MJ12666]

Detroit is bad as well. Hospitals filling up is the worst case scenario where you are literally making a decision to let someone die because there isnt enough vents to go around.

Doctors in New York are finding that ventilators are not helping individuals who are infected with the coronavirus and the death rate is extremely high (80%). So it may be a blessing in disguise if Detroit hospitals do not have enough to go around.

Some doctors are also concerned that ventilators could be further harming certain coronavirus patients, as the treatment is hard on the lungs, the AP reported.

Dr. Tiffany Osborn, a critical-care specialist at the Washington University School of Medicine, told NPR on April 1 that ventilators could actually damage a patient's lungs.

"The ventilator itself can do damage to the lung tissue based on how much pressure is required to help oxygen get processed by the lungs," she said.

Dr. Negin Hajizadeh, a pulmonary critical-care doctor at New York's Hofstra/Northwell School of Medicine, also told NPR that while ventilators worked well for people with diseases like pneumonia, they don't necessarily also work for coronavirus patients.

She said that most coronavirus patients in her hospital system who were put on a ventilator had not recovered.

She added that the coronavirus does a lot more damage to the lungs than illnesses like the flu, as "there is fluid and other toxic chemical cytokines, we call them, raging throughout the lung tissue."

https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...ors-try-reduce-use-new-york-death-rate-2020-4

 

[Circa]

Doctors in New York are finding that ventilators are not helping individuals who are infected with the coronavirus and the death rate is extremely high (80%). So it may be a blessing in disguise if Detroit hospitals do not have enough to go around.



https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...ors-try-reduce-use-new-york-death-rate-2020-4

If the bolded doesn't explain the fact that people are dying from other causes to you. Than what other explanation does 1 need? What exactly Is a respiratory illness in your opinion.? Ventilators are needed for respiratory illnesses. (especially the ones that kill)
If the people that are dying, aren't given their own due process of family being around with a proper burial,... then It turns out that It all Is because of political innuendos...
What will you do when you find out?

 

[Irishize]

Approx 17M filed for unemployment over the past three weeks. Assuming the rate of 5.6M job losses per week (although it’s more likely to increase so this is a conservative estimate), the total will be over 60M in eight weeks.

According to World Life Expectancy, every 1% that unemployment goes up, 37K people die.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Approx 17M filed for unemployment over the past three weeks. Assuming the rate of 5.6M job losses per week (although it’s more likely to increase so this is a conservative estimate), the total will be over 60M in eight weeks.

According to World Life Expectancy, every 1% that unemployment goes up, 37K people die.

That is truly awful.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You know, the average person will include people from the Left. You can't lose your mind at everything they say and then get your back up when I say the average person isn't intelligent. Look at what's happened with toilette paper, would intelligent people do that?

I think bold text there is key. If you claim to have the ability to work from home but choose to go into your office, then yes you are sharing air space with those people and the places they go.

People hoarded paper products in fear thanks to our media. We heard none of this when H1N! hit. You still don't understand that I have NOT gone back to the office since shelter in place started. I stated that I am at less risk in my office than I am at the grocery store. One place I'm allowed to go to, and the other I'm not.

The point is moving forward the entire country cannot operate like NYC has to in the near future.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Until we get widely-available, reliable (very few false negatives) and quick testing, flattening the curve is an all-or-nothing proposition. You can't trust the average person to take medical recommendations seriously especially when it tells them to do something they don't want to do. My family won't even take heart attacks or diabetes seriously, why would they take the potential for "just a cough" seriously? You might be reasonable but I can guarantee you the average person is not.

This thing is so much more infectious than the common cold or the flu... it really does only take a few people to restart the curve. We've seen it completely wipe out nursing homes and large group gatherings.

In an ideal scenario where it's not widespread yet - What do you even do? Do you lock the city down completely? Nobody in or out? Do you wait to social distance until it's not "safe" anymore? It's a 5-14 day incubation period so once you see it it's already wide-spread. Do you allow individuals to decide? If so, how do you safeguard others? Do you start an antibodies identification system where you can only go into an office after you've gotten immunity? Do we even know at this point if someone can get it a second time? There's just a ton of practical and ethical questions we need to make as a country.

Good point on nursing homes and larger groups. I'm not a medical expert and, unlike others on IE, do not claim to have the best solution to every problem known to mankind.

My underlying point is that we are a huge country, and it looks like we're on the decline with this thing. The sooner we get back to work, the better it is for everyone. Along with that, maybe areas like Tampa, Omaha, NE and Duluth MN can get back to normal quicker than NYC, Philly, Baltimore, etc.

 

[Legacy]

Doctors in New York are finding that ventilators are not helping individuals who are infected with the coronavirus and the death rate is extremely high (80%). So it may be a blessing in disguise if Detroit hospitals do not have enough to go around.



https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...ors-try-reduce-use-new-york-death-rate-2020-4

Worth a try in a cohort study with other modalities in patients with the same comorbidities and extent of disease. Non-invasive ventilation (NIV) is recommended as first-line therapy in respiratory failure of critically ill patients.

Interim Clinical Guidance for Management of Patients with Confirmed Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)
(CDC)


NHS Guidance on use of NIV in adults with coronavirus | INTENSIVE Review

The higher mortality may be due to the disease, risk factors like age, cardiovascular and/or pulmonary disease, etc. or waiting too long to present to the ER, which may be affected by lack of health insurance. Controlling those variables would give the answer to whether the ventilation with intubation reduces the high mortality - or worsens it.

The use of non-invasive ventilation is generally used in negative pressure rooms due to the higher incidence of transmission to care givers. That situation changes when we have a vaccine or the care giver has been previously exposed evidenced by antibody testing. A provider - and the patient -has to be ready to forego intubation as the last line of intervention and treatment.

The Dilemma of Coronavirus Disease 2019, Aging, and Cardiovascular Disease
Insights From Cardiovascular Aging Science

 

[BGIF]

Two thirds of COVID-19 patients improve after Gilead drug - NEJM

Reuters
By Deena Beasley
ReutersApril 10, 2020

By Deena Beasley

(Reuters) - More than two-thirds of severely ill COVID-19 patients saw their condition improve after treatment with remdesivir, an experimental drug being developed by Gilead Sciences Inc., according to new data based on patient observation.

The analysis, published on Friday by the New England Journal of Medicine, does not detail what other treatments the 61 hospitalized patients were given and data on eight of them were not included -- in one case because of a dosing error.

The paper's author called the findings "hopeful," but cautioned that it is difficult to interpret the results since they do not include comparison to a control group, as would be the case in a randomized clinical trial. In addition, the patient numbers were small, the details being disclosed are limited, and the follow-up time was relatively short.

There are currently no approved treatments or preventive vaccines for COVID-19, the respiratory illness caused by the novel coronavirus that has killed more than 100,000 people worldwide.

Gilead last month sharply limited its compassionate use program for remdesivir and is conducting its own clinical trials of the antiviral drug, with results expected in coming weeks. Researchers in China as well as the U.S. National Institutes of Health are also testing the drug in COVID-19 patients.

The new analysis includes patients in the United States, Europe, Canada and Japan who received a 10-day course of intravenous remdesivir.

Before the treatment, 30 patients were on mechanical ventilators, and four were on a machine that pumps blood from the patient's body through an artificial oxygenator. After a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients, or 68%, had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including more than half of the 30 patients receiving mechanical ventilation who had their breathing tubes removed. A total of 25 patients, or 47%, were discharged from the hospital. Seven patients, 13% of the total, died.

Twelve patients, 23%, had serious side effects including multiple-organ-dysfunction syndrome, septic shock and acute kidney injury.

"We look forward to the results of controlled clinical trials to potentially validate these findings," wrote Dr. Jonathan Grein, the paper's lead author and director of hospital epidemiology at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles.

 

[Irishize]

Worth a try in a cohort study with other modalities in patients with the same comorbidities and extent of disease. Non-invasive ventilation (NIV) is recommended as first-line therapy in respiratory failure of critically ill patients.

Interim Clinical Guidance for Management of Patients with Confirmed Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)
(CDC)


NHS Guidance on use of NIV in adults with coronavirus | INTENSIVE Review

The higher mortality may be due to the disease, risk factors like age, cardiovascular and/or pulmonary disease, etc. or waiting too long to present to the ER, which may be affected by lack of health insurance. Controlling those variables would give the answer to whether the ventilation with intubation reduces the high mortality - or worsens it.

The use of non-invasive ventilation is generally used in negative pressure rooms due to the higher incidence of transmission to care givers. That situation changes when we have a vaccine or the care giver has been previously exposed evidenced by antibody testing. A provider - and the patient -has to be ready to forego intubation as the last line of intervention and treatment.

The Dilemma of Coronavirus Disease 2019, Aging, and Cardiovascular Disease
Insights From Cardiovascular Aging Science

Interesting info. I would argue that “lack of health insurance” would not be likely to prevent a person from going to an ER. That’s where most uninsured folks go anyway b/c they know the ERs can’t turn them away.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Two thirds of COVID-19 patients improve after Gilead drug - NEJM

Reuters
By Deena Beasley
ReutersApril 10, 2020

By Deena Beasley

(Reuters) - More than two-thirds of severely ill COVID-19 patients saw their condition improve after treatment with remdesivir, an experimental drug being developed by Gilead Sciences Inc., according to new data based on patient observation.

The analysis, published on Friday by the New England Journal of Medicine, does not detail what other treatments the 61 hospitalized patients were given and data on eight of them were not included -- in one case because of a dosing error.

The paper's author called the findings "hopeful," but cautioned that it is difficult to interpret the results since they do not include comparison to a control group, as would be the case in a randomized clinical trial. In addition, the patient numbers were small, the details being disclosed are limited, and the follow-up time was relatively short.

There are currently no approved treatments or preventive vaccines for COVID-19, the respiratory illness caused by the novel coronavirus that has killed more than 100,000 people worldwide.

Gilead last month sharply limited its compassionate use program for remdesivir and is conducting its own clinical trials of the antiviral drug, with results expected in coming weeks. Researchers in China as well as the U.S. National Institutes of Health are also testing the drug in COVID-19 patients.

The new analysis includes patients in the United States, Europe, Canada and Japan who received a 10-day course of intravenous remdesivir.

Before the treatment, 30 patients were on mechanical ventilators, and four were on a machine that pumps blood from the patient's body through an artificial oxygenator. After a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients, or 68%, had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including more than half of the 30 patients receiving mechanical ventilation who had their breathing tubes removed. A total of 25 patients, or 47%, were discharged from the hospital. Seven patients, 13% of the total, died.

Twelve patients, 23%, had serious side effects including multiple-organ-dysfunction syndrome, septic shock and acute kidney injury.

"We look forward to the results of controlled clinical trials to potentially validate these findings," wrote Dr. Jonathan Grein, the paper's lead author and director of hospital epidemiology at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles.

This is a similar type of study as the hydroxychloroquine study by the French doctor. Its not controlled so its difficult to interpret. Larger RCT are currently underway for several investigational treatments including Remdesivir. I believe I read results will be available as soon as next week from some of these studies. When I get time I will link a couple articles outlining the state of current investigational treatment modalities.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Swine flu killed 12,000 Americans. This isn't that.

True. It's up to almost 19,000 and counting, and that's with a lot of the country shutting down. We did none of this with the swine flu. If we had listened to the administration who said we'd be down to zero positives very soon (LOL) it would be FAR worse. Thank God for governors like Dewine in Ohio and many others who actually understood the gravity of the situation and didn't put on pom-poms and play "cheerleader" and lie to our citizens.

 

[TorontoGold]

True. It's up to almost 19,000 and counting, and that's with a lot of the country shutting down. We did none of this with the swine flu. If we had listened to the administration who said we'd be down to zero positives very soon (LOL) it would be FAR worse. Thank God for governors like Dewine in Ohio and many others who actually understood the gravity of the situation and didn't put on pom-poms and play "cheerleader" and lie to our citizens.

But, you should know it's Jim Acosta that is actually the evil mastermind behind the coronavirus. If he asked fair questions then it would have gone away like Trump had said. Big Media at it again!

 

[BobbyMac]

But, you should know it's Jim Acosta that is actually the evil mastermind behind the coronavirus. If he asked fair questions then it would have gone away like Trump had said. Big Media at it again!

I wish Trump would have locked all you in your homes for 6 weeks on March 1 and rolled the National Guard down your streets because (1.) It would have saved tens of thousands of lives and (2.) I would much rather have repurchased Tesla at $175 than $375.