COVID-19

[TorontoGold]

I wish Trump would have locked all you in your homes for 6 weeks on March 1 and rolled the National Guard down your streets because (1.) It would have saved tens of thousands of lives and (2.) I would much rather have repurchased Tesla at $175 than $375.

He would have finally had his yuge military parade. You should of got yourself on the Senate stock picker email list and you would have made a killing.

 

[phork]

I wish Trump would have locked all you in your homes for 6 weeks on March 1 and rolled the National Guard down your streets because (1.) It would have saved tens of thousands of lives and (2.) I would much rather have repurchased Tesla at $175 than $375.

Honestly a 3 week total shutdown in March probably would have been the best thing to happen.

 

[BobbyMac]

He would have finally had his yuge military parade. You should of got yourself on the Senate stock picker email list and you would have made a killing.

Didn't notice you were Canadian, sorry.

Honestly a 3 week total shutdown in March probably would have been the best thing to happen.

No doubt a complete, Guard in the street enforcing, real Stay at Home would have saved lives and got things back to post-corona normal as quick as possible. Not sure 3 weeks would have been long enough.

 

[Legacy]

Two thirds of COVID-19 patients improve after Gilead drug - NEJM

Reuters
By Deena Beasley
ReutersApril 10, 2020

By Deena Beasley

(Reuters) - More than two-thirds of severely ill COVID-19 patients saw their condition improve after treatment with remdesivir, an experimental drug being developed by Gilead Sciences Inc., according to new data based on patient observation.

The analysis, published on Friday by the New England Journal of Medicine, does not detail what other treatments the 61 hospitalized patients were given and data on eight of them were not included -- in one case because of a dosing error.

The paper's author called the findings "hopeful," but cautioned that it is difficult to interpret the results since they do not include comparison to a control group, as would be the case in a randomized clinical trial. In addition, the patient numbers were small, the details being disclosed are limited, and the follow-up time was relatively short.

There are currently no approved treatments or preventive vaccines for COVID-19, the respiratory illness caused by the novel coronavirus that has killed more than 100,000 people worldwide.

Gilead last month sharply limited its compassionate use program for remdesivir and is conducting its own clinical trials of the antiviral drug, with results expected in coming weeks. Researchers in China as well as the U.S. National Institutes of Health are also testing the drug in COVID-19 patients.

The new analysis includes patients in the United States, Europe, Canada and Japan who received a 10-day course of intravenous remdesivir.

Before the treatment, 30 patients were on mechanical ventilators, and four were on a machine that pumps blood from the patient's body through an artificial oxygenator. After a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients, or 68%, had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including more than half of the 30 patients receiving mechanical ventilation who had their breathing tubes removed. A total of 25 patients, or 47%, were discharged from the hospital. Seven patients, 13% of the total, died.

Twelve patients, 23%, had serious side effects including multiple-organ-dysfunction syndrome, septic shock and acute kidney injury.

"We look forward to the results of controlled clinical trials to potentially validate these findings," wrote Dr. Jonathan Grein, the paper's lead author and director of hospital epidemiology at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles.

Great the they tried ECMO which I assume that is. But there are not a lot of ECMO machine and techs even if the hospital has stopped heart surgeries.

Also good is the 47% rate of discharge and "more than half" of those thirty on mechanical ventilation. Hopeful.

 

[Legacy]

Rural areas may be the most vulnerable during the coronavirus outbreak (WaPo)

Covid-19 may pose the greatest risk to Americans in rural areas if deaths from the coronavirus pandemic are similar to those from the standard flu. Other concentrations of sick and old people may also be at risk....The push for social distancing and isolation make dense crowds and public transportation in big cities seem like the deadliest environment. The pattern of flu deaths over the past five years, however, shows that big metro areas are not hot spots for high flu death rates. Most of the deaths are among the large population in big cities, but the risk for any individual person goes up dramatically where homes are sparse.

Very rural areas have a 60 percent higher death rate from flu than the big metro areas, according to analysis of CDC death records.

Collectively, the 68 most rural counties of Kansas, for instance, have nearly 14 deaths per 100,000 people age 50 or older, well over double the rate for the county around Topeka (6.6), the state capital. And the rate around New York City (3.4) is around half of that. All rates are for 2014 to 2018, the most recent five years of data available.


The higher rates in remote areas may be due to difficulty getting health care. Rural residents have greater travel distances for more limited resources. And that was before the pandemic raised the threat of overwhelming even the nation’s most advanced hospitals.

Collectively, the 68 most rural counties of Kansas, for instance, have nearly 14 deaths per 100,000 people age 50 or older, well over double the rate for the county around Topeka (6.6), the state capital. And the rate around New York City (3.4) is around half of that. All rates are for 2014 to 2018, the most recent five years of data available.

The higher rates in remote areas may be due to difficulty getting health care. Rural residents have greater travel distances for more limited resources. And that was before the pandemic raised the threat of overwhelming even the nation’s most advanced hospitals.

This enhanced measure of age-based vulnerability highlights potential risk in retirement areas such as Florida and Arizona, as well as Michigan and Appalachia. The urban areas do not reflect as much risk because the elderly group is diluted by the large population overall.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Lots of people are complaining about not being able to get a haircut during the lockdown. It wasn't a problem for me, as I've been cutting my own hair since I was in college (I think I've paid for 2 haircuts since about 1982). Of all weeks to screw up, this past week I knocked my clippers off the back of the toilet into the water and ruined them. No biggie, I'll get another set at Walmart. Nope. Everyone else is desperate for a haircut and every Walmart, Target, and every other store, including Amazon, is sold out and back ordered. I finally found a nice set on eBay, but had to pay double the usual price. They arrive late next week.

On a happier note, I bought two more Les Pauls earlier this month and have them stashed at my office until I find the right time to tell my wife. No need to burden her with such matters during these stressful days. I'm thoughtful that way.

 

[SonofOahu]

I wish Trump would have locked all you in your homes for 6 weeks on March 1 and rolled the National Guard down your streets because (1.) It would have saved tens of thousands of lives and (2.) I would much rather have repurchased Tesla at $175 than $375.

The same point was discussed in Hawaii, but my politician friend explained it pretty well. Basically, America being what it is, the complete shutdown would have been met with anger and resistance. Everything has to be done incrementally; restrictions are piloted then adjusted up as needed. It's like that frog in a pot analogy.

Oahu just piloted its curfew, last night. Most people were like, "why do we need this, no one is out" or "they should have done this awhile ago." Seems like a pretty easy buy in.

 

[yankeehater]

Article from The Daily Beast about a couple of small recent German studies. Some interesting takeaways. One important one is they are finding the antibodies a covid positive person's body is creating is not actually killing the virus. They are seeing a reaction similar to what happens with HIV/AIDS. This means that a vaccine will be less likely to work and the treatment will turn to more a cocktail of drugs like the ones being discussed and some currently in use.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/heres-where-coronavirus-hides-in-your-body

 

[Old Man Mike]

Random report from my retirement community (where EVERYONE is old, and most not overly healthy --- though I'm in pretty good condition despite an old heart and a liver which doesn't quite activate enough sugar destruction):

1. No meals nor any other activities involving greater than two people --- even a two-max policy in the elevators;
2. All meals served to individual rooms (lunch and dinner) unless (like myself) you want to go in to our little "Market" and pick up a sandwich, chips, drink, banana, small dessert and go back to your room;
3. No one except health essential and food service people allowed in the building for any amount of time. Deliveries come to front desk only. Mail delivery to mail boxes only. All workers get temperatures taken before being allowed in to work;
4. Many masks seen about. All workers have them plus about half the residents;
5. Some persons in quarantine --- example: a resident returning from Florida is isolated from the rest of us and has one dedicated work person assigned for food , cleaning, etc;
6. Admin trying hard to keep residents from going nuts --- traveling "happy hours" passing out beer or wine at doors; netflix style movies the same; some snacks accompany each; attempt at house wide bingo games; --- thankfully with my use of internet and my own academic library I don't need this, but others seem to;
7. We can always go outside and walk the grounds (and sneak away to town if one wants to) and I do the former --- full hour today walking and sitting/praying in the sunshine; most residents do not do this;
8. no news to my ears that there has been any trouble here yet.


X. I brought five extra toilet paper rolls with me when I moved in February from my old home. Despite widely being accused of being full of sh!t, I have three still remaining and have survived this greatest threat.

Yours from the wilds of Kalamazoo MI --- thankfully 2 1/2 hours drive from Detroit.

 

[Blazers46]

Honest Question:

I own a Play It Again Sports store. I have been deemed essential in my state with the restriction that I only be open for bike repair but I cannot sell anything.

WalMart, also deemed essential because they sell gorcery, pharmacy and other essentials.

WalMarts only restriction is they cannot go over 20% of occupancy. Which an employee there told me is between 900 to 1000 people from location to location which they really only get to on days like black friday.

If WalMart and my store are both considered essential ( we can debate my essentialness a later date) why can they sell dumbbells and fitness equipment with NO restriction and I cannot? They can even sell Power Ranger figurines and barbie dolls....

I called the state for clarification and they said that was a question for thier legal team. I thought it was a simple question.

Not to mention, a state officer emailed me a cease and desist letter because I had a sign on my door telling people how to order online.

Do you see any small businesses having any ground for potential lawsuits for similra situations to the above?

Even if someone just had a womens consignment shop and was forced to close but WalMart, Target or other big box stores are still selling clothing with the states blessing?

 

[Blazers46]

Honest Question:

I own a Play It Again Sports store. I have been deemed essential in my state with the restriction that I only be open for bike repair but I cannot sell anything.

WalMart, also deemed essential because they sell gorcery, pharmacy and other essentials.

WalMarts only restriction is they cannot go over 20% of occupancy. Which an employee there told me is between 900 to 1000 people from location to location which they really only get to on days like black friday.

If WalMart and my store are both considered essential ( we can debate my essentialness a later date) why can they sell dumbbells and fitness equipment with NO restriction and I cannot? They can even sell Power Ranger figurines and barbie dolls....

I called the state for clarification and they said that was a question for thier legal team. I thought it was a simple question.

Not to mention, a state officer emailed me a cease and desist letter because I had a sign on my door telling people how to order online.

Do you see any small businesses having any ground for potential lawsuits for similra situations to the above?

Even if someone just had a womens consignment shop and was forced to close but WalMart, Target or other big box stores are still selling clothing with the states blessing?

Furthermore I was reading where 40% of restaurants and other small business could face potential permanent closure if this drags for another month. Small business seems to be geared toward just paying employees at this point with a small portion going toward other.

With that said I have a pair of Bowflex adjustable dumbbells for sale if anyone is interested, $900 lol

 

[MJ12666]

Worth a try in a cohort study with other modalities in patients with the same comorbidities and extent of disease. Non-invasive ventilation (NIV) is recommended as first-line therapy in respiratory failure of critically ill patients.

Interim Clinical Guidance for Management of Patients with Confirmed Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)
(CDC)


NHS Guidance on use of NIV in adults with coronavirus | INTENSIVE Review

The higher mortality may be due to the disease, risk factors like age, cardiovascular and/or pulmonary disease, etc. or waiting too long to present to the ER, which may be affected by lack of health insurance. Controlling those variables would give the answer to whether the ventilation with intubation reduces the high mortality - or worsens it.

The use of non-invasive ventilation is generally used in negative pressure rooms due to the higher incidence of transmission to care givers. That situation changes when we have a vaccine or the care giver has been previously exposed evidenced by antibody testing. A provider - and the patient -has to be ready to forego intubation as the last line of intervention and treatment.

The Dilemma of Coronavirus Disease 2019, Aging, and Cardiovascular Disease
Insights From Cardiovascular Aging Science

Medical care is not my field of expertise, but maybe you should forward this information to Dr. Negin Hajizadeh, a pulmonary critical care doctor at the Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell on Long Island, N.Y. as she is the one treating coronavirus patience.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Pretty spot on:

https://www.redstate.com/sister-tol...nd-other-dems-in-epic-five-minute-rant-watch/

 

[BobbyMac]

The same point was discussed in Hawaii, but my politician friend explained it pretty well. Basically, America being what it is, the complete shutdown would have been met with anger and resistance. Everything has to be done incrementally; restrictions are piloted then adjusted up as needed. It's like that frog in a pot analogy.

Oahu just piloted its curfew, last night. Most people were like, "why do we need this, no one is out" or "they should have done this awhile ago." Seems like a pretty easy buy in.

This is EXACTLY what the gov't did.

All the bickering about people dying becuz Trump acted too slowly would have instead been... Trump is a fascist! These people killed in the looting/rioting would have not died if he would have taken a slower approach, instead of these extreme shelter in place orders with 24 hr curfews and the Guard on the streets.

 

[BobbyMac]

Pretty spot on:

https://www.redstate.com/sister-tol...nd-other-dems-in-epic-five-minute-rant-watch/

Yep. While I don't agree with everything he says, I do respect how he puts his friends on the left on blast when he disagrees.

"Viruses come from China like Shortstops come from the Dominican Republic." - That's GOLD Jerry.

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[Irishize]

Covid-19 may pose the greatest risk to Americans in rural areas if deaths from the coronavirus pandemic are similar to those from the standard flu

I thought we weren’t allowed to compare it to the standard flu?

 

[Irishize]

Yep. While I don't agree with everything he says, I do respect how he puts his friends on the left on blast when he disagrees.

"Viruses come from China like Shortstops come from the Dominican Republic." - That's GOLD Jerry.

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Every once in awhile he reverts back to his former Libertarian self and makes salient points.

 

[SonofOahu]

This is EXACTLY what the gov't did.

All the bickering about people dying becuz Trump acted too slowly would have instead been... Trump is a fascist! These people killed in the looting/rioting would have not died if he would have taken a slower approach, instead of these extreme shelter in place orders with 24 hr curfews and the Guard on the streets.

The difference is the approach. Trump and his media minions downplayed the risk this pandemic presents as well as the importance of social-distancing/shut down. Once we started to see community spread, the nationwide shutdown should have started. Not some half-assed let's-block-some-flights-from-China shit he tries to paint as some big magic bubble of viral protection.

That's a bold take, Crusader. I wonder how the immediate shutdown would have been perceived and received.

 

[SonofOahu]

Article from The Daily Beast about a couple of small recent German studies. Some interesting takeaways. One important one is they are finding the antibodies a covid positive person's body is creating is not actually killing the virus. They are seeing a reaction similar to what happens with HIV/AIDS. This means that a vaccine will be less likely to work and the treatment will turn to more a cocktail of drugs like the ones being discussed and some currently in use.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/heres-where-coronavirus-hides-in-your-body

The ACE2 info has been reported since China, and it's the part that should really concern Americans. A large number of us have hypertension and ACE inhibitors upregulate ACE2.

 

[AKRowdy]

The ACE2 info has been reported since China, and it's the part that should really concern Americans. A large number of us have hypertension and ACE inhibitors upregulate ACE2.

Yes there are some info that people on ACE inhibitors may have protection against ARDS.

 

[Woneone]

The difference is the approach. Trump and his media minions downplayed the risk this pandemic presents as well as the importance of social-distancing/shut down. Once we started to see community spread, the nationwide shutdown should have started. Not some half-assed let's-block-some-flights-from-China shit he tries to paint as some big magic bubble of viral protection.

That's a bold take, Crusader. I wonder how the immediate shutdown would have been perceived and received.

The first confirmed Person to Person transmission on US soil was on January 30th. The travel ban went into effect the 31st.

At that point, CDC Directory Robert Redfield:

"Based on what we know now, our assessment remains that the immediate risk to the American public is low."

FYI - It was even before this, the 29th, that the White House formed the first of many "Task Forces" to keep the public updated on the most relevant information.

If he would have locked the country down at that point, without a concrete consensus from the medical community (which didn't exist at that point), this country would have went into mass hysteria.

EDIT: I should specify "Hysteria" - not that it wouldn't have been justified, or (again in hindsight) the right call, but those screaming about his inaction now would have been screaming about his overreach. There was a right answer back at the end of January, it's just that people today pretending that they knew what it was are lying. In my opinion, Trump is an idiot, so I really don't want him doing things that the medical community isn't recommending.

 

[AKRowdy]

Same people saying he didn’t do enough at the beginning were the same people saying Trump was racist for putting up travel bans. So please let’s not go down that road again.

 

[BobbyMac]

Same people saying he didn’t do enough at the beginning were the same people saying Trump was racist for putting up travel bans. So please let’s not go down that road again.

Trump or Obama or Reagan or FDR or Lincoln would have had half of the outragers hating them regardless of what they did in this situation. Social media & infotainment news has made radical zombies out of 75% of people who waste time giving their meaningless opinions.

 

[Circa]

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[317Irish]

The first confirmed Person to Person transmission on US soil was on January 30th. The travel ban went into effect the 31st.

At that point, CDC Directory Robert Redfield:



FYI - It was even before this, the 29th, that the White House formed the first of many "Task Forces" to keep the public updated on the most relevant information.

If he would have locked the country down at that point, without a concrete consensus from the medical community (which didn't exist at that point), this country would have went into mass hysteria.

EDIT: I should specify "Hysteria" - not that it wouldn't have been justified, or (again in hindsight) the right call, but those screaming about his inaction now would have been screaming about his overreach. There was a right answer back at the end of January, it's just that people today pretending that they knew what it was are lying. In my opinion, Trump is an idiot, so I really don't want him doing things that the medical community isn't recommending.

Seems like it would be difficult to defend that he did all he could by stopping flights from China immediately when he subsequently said someone to the effect of: nothing to see here, positive case reversals coming ASAP! I guess it’s easy to say now that it’s more deadly than the common cold that his admin painted it out to be initially.
Incremental change is safe, but leadership is strong decision making based on the the information at hand. People seem to be simultaneously arguing that this admin did not ignore the facts and was well aware of the matter at hand while also saying that they were right for letting it... play out a little to see where it went? It would be nice to have been locked down completely for several weeks and now be easing into normalcy vs where we are at now...

 

[arahop]

Seems like it would be difficult to defend that he did all he could by stopping flights from China immediately when he subsequently said someone to the effect of: nothing to see here, positive case reversals coming ASAP! I guess it’s easy to say now that it’s more deadly than the common cold that his admin painted it out to be initially.
Incremental change is safe, but leadership is strong decision making based on the the information at hand. People seem to be simultaneously arguing that this admin did not ignore the facts and was well aware of the matter at hand while also saying that they were right for letting it... play out a little to see where it went? It would be nice to have been locked down completely for several weeks and now be easing into normalcy vs where we are at now...

Agreed.

 

[Legacy]

New York Times' coronavirus report outlines how Trump 'could have seen what was coming' (CNN on NYT article, no mention in Fox)

 

[Legacy]

Forwarded a number of times:

Half of us are going to come out of this quarantine as amazing cooks. The other half will come out with a drinking problem.

I used to spin that toilet paper like I was on Wheel of Fortune. Now I turn it like I'm cracking a safe

I need to practice social-distancing from the refrigerator.

Still haven't decided where to go for Easter ----- The Living Room or The Bedroom

PS: every few days try your jeans on just to make sure they fit. Pajamas will have you believe all is well in the kingdom.

Homeschooling is going well. 2 students suspended for fighting and 1 teacher fired for drinking on the job.

I don't think anyone expected that when we changed the clocks we'd go from Standard Time to the Twilight Zone

So, after this quarantine.....will the producers of My 600 Pound Life just find me or do I find them?

Quarantine Day 5: Went to this restaurant called THE KITCHEN. You have to gather all the ingredients and make your own meal. I have no clue how this place is still in busines

Day 5 of Homeschooling: One of these little monsters called in a bomb threat

I'm so excited --- it's time to take out the garbage. What should I wear?

I hope the weather is good tomorrow for my trip to Puerto Backyarda. I'm getting tired of Los Livingroom.

Classified Ad: Single man with toilet paper seeks woman with hand sanitizer for good clean fun.

Day 6 of Homeschooling: My child just said "I hope I don't have the same teacher next year".... I'm offended.

Better 6 feet apart than 6 feet under .

And:

The best way to show the end to mitigation and return to normal is for the Prez have a MAGA rally and mingle.

We're all in this together.

 

[Woneone]

New York Times' coronavirus report outlines how Trump 'could have seen what was coming' (CNN on NYT article, no mention in Fox)

1.) They had a meeting where they:

It predicted 110 million infections, 7.7 million hospitalizations and 586,000 deaths.

This was BEFORE they learned of asymptomatic transmission, which the article actually points out (but tries to point out after the fact). And as I've posted in another post of yours, hindsight is 20/20, but on February 21st, there was no such consensus. He couldn't have learned of asymptomatic transmission. The possibility? Yes. But it was not settled then.

2.) Dr. Nancy Messioneer

On March 9th:

Messonnier noted that most communities in the United States are not experiencing community spread of the virus and said that people need to make decisions based on where they live and their own needs. She also advised that people who are not at high risk for severe illness, particularly those not living in places like communities in Washington state and California where the virus is known to be spreading, to act prudently. Masks, for example, should really be saved for health care workers.

And

that officials do not expect most people to suffer severe cases of Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus. She pointed to data from China, where the outbreak began and thousands of cases have been reviewed, that showed that some 80% of cases were mild and only a few percent were critical.

Maybe she did warn of day to day disruption, but they seem to forget about these quotes as well.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/09...ut-impact-could-be-blunted-cdc-official-says/

3.)

An administration official confirmed to CNN that the government's top public health experts agreed in the third week of February on the need to begin moving away from a containment strategy and toward a mitigation strategy that would involve aggressive social distancing measures.<b> The agreement among the health officials came after they held a tabletop exercise to game out the potential for a full-blown pandemic.</b>

The same meeting before they were aware of asymptomatic transmission? Ok.

If it was that day - Number of US Coronavirus cases: 26.

Not knowing of asymptomatic transmission and only 26 confirmed cases. Damn clairvoyant.

By comparison - Italiy: 20. Guess Italy was just negligent as well.

4.) Jesus, I was going to point out some of the timeline stuff in this, but it's the same hindsight 20/20 as usual. They start with a paragraph about Trump was warned about asymptomatic transmission or something as severe in early January, then later they talk about an email string in late February from a scientist about the possibility in late February, as that was the "gotcha" when it happened a month later.

As an aside - On March 10th there were 750 confirmed cases of Coronavirus.

160 in NY.

This thing blew up. Should we have done stuff quicker? Yes. Should we have tested faster? Yes. Should we have done X? Sure.

But it's much easier to say that on 4/12 than it is 2/12.

I mean, there are reports of the lines at food banks. The increase in suicides, suicide prevention calls, child abuse, ect.

Let's say he makes the call in, let's call in February and he's wrong. No asymptomatic transmission, mortality rate is much lower, etc. How's that conversation go? And remember, at this point, the poster child for this virus is (in my opinion) Italy who had 26 confirmed cases on the 02/21/2020.

 

[phork]

Let's say he makes the call in, let's call in February and he's wrong. No asymptomatic transmission, mortality rate is much lower, etc. How's that conversation go? And remember, at this point, the poster child for this virus is (in my opinion) Italy who had 26 confirmed cases on the 02/21/2020.

Hows it go? I imagine something like this:

Reporter: Now that we know we overestimated this thing what do you say to people who think you over stepped your bounds and shut down the country for nothing?

Trump: Given the information we had at the time the decision was made in the best interest of keeping the American people safe.