COVID-19

[TorontoGold]

The point of the study was that NEITHER vaxed or unvaxed people were reinfected. The numbers you pulled from the study were general infection rates of healthcare workers. The follow up numbers shared ZERO persons of both groups (vaxed and unvaxed) were reinfected once having COVID.

While your conclusion is to get vaxed as the safest measures, others would argue its better to keep a healthy immune system, be prepared with the proper therapeutics (or a plan for therapeutics), and if you get infected, you will have natural immunity to follow. This is not the push of the study or video. Check sharing a differing perspective.

Thanks for checking out the study.

Everyone would argue its better to have a healthy immune system, which is why everyone should look at minimizing their risk. Which is why the infection rates, as you pointed out, are exponentially more favorable to vaccinated people. Long haul COVID has been shown to have terrible long term side effects. I agree it's important to have good therapeutics ready, especially if boosters can't be administered fast enough to blunt a rise in hospitalizations.

 

[Greenore]

Just got back from receiving my Pfizer booster shot. Really pleased to see how many people were lined up. I think the vaccination rates in the City I went to were around 85% (at least 2 shots). Very encouraging for "conservative" Alberta. We may be a conservative Province but we aren't foolish. Best of luck to all!

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[IrishRazor82]

You guys are still using CDC data? From the CDC who in April said they'd stop counting most vaccinated cases? In governments who actually publish monthly like the UK, more vacc'd are dying at a higher percent (~85% of deaths while vacc rate is ~75%).

In US, even though they don't publish the data, we have more cases and more deaths in 2021 after a year of mass vaccination than we did in 2020... No wonder they won't share the data #sCiEnCe

Biggest flop of a vaccine ever, that's what you get when you rush it for $$.

 

[PerthDomer]

You guys are still using CDC data? From the CDC who in April said they'd stop counting most vaccinated cases? In governments who actually publish monthly like the UK, more vacc'd are dying at a higher percent (~85% of deaths while vacc rate is ~75%).

In US, even though they don't publish the data, we have more cases and more deaths in 2021 after a year of mass vaccination than we did in 2020... No wonder they won't share the data #sCiEnCe

Biggest flop of a vaccine ever, that's what you get when you rush it for $$.

You do realize most of the deaths occurred early in the year before most were vaccinated right? And most of the delta deaths were in unvaccinated people... real conspiracy...

 

[TorontoGold]

You guys are still using CDC data? From the CDC who in April said they'd stop counting most vaccinated cases? In governments who actually publish monthly like the UK, more vacc'd are dying at a higher percent (~85% of deaths while vacc rate is ~75%).

In US, even though they don't publish the data, we have more cases and more deaths in 2021 after a year of mass vaccination than we did in 2020... No wonder they won't share the data #sCiEnCe

Biggest flop of a vaccine ever, that's what you get when you rush it for $$.

Wait this UK? Maybe you're referring to a different UK, because the stats from Northern Ireland run counter to your point.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/public...d-hospitalisations-8-november-5-december-2021

No sources, no data, rinse repeat.

 

[notredomer23]

Very anecdotal, but I was at Santacon in NYC this past weekend. Big mistake as I’m too old for that shit. Anyway, about 3 dozen people I know or am connected with in someway have all tested positive. All vaccinated, prior infected, or boosted. Definitely omicron. Everyone in NJ/NYC has similar story. Good news is the symptoms for most have been allergy-like.. Seems to evade the neutralizing antibodies, but everyone, vaccinated or prior infected, seems to have good enough antibodies + T cells to fight this off with ease combined with the fact it replicates in the bronchus and not the lungs.

Seeing the amount of people I know test positive for COVID around me has been really disheartening, but I think everyone thought Delta was what was going to make COVID endemic. Nope, it’s omicron. Everyone is getting this. Within a few weeks. Get boosted if you’re worried. Even then you’re prob still gonna get it

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Very anecdotal, but I was at Santacon in NYC this past weekend. Big mistake as I’m too old for that shit. Anyway, about 3 dozen people I know or am connected with in someway have all tested positive. All vaccinated, prior infected, or boosted. Definitely omicron. Everyone in NJ/NYC has similar story. Good news is the symptoms for most have been allergy-like.. Seems to evade the neutralizing antibodies, but everyone, vaccinated or prior infected, seems to have good enough antibodies + T cells to fight this off with ease combined with the fact it replicates in the bronchus and not the lungs.

Seeing the amount of people I know test positive for COVID around me has been really disheartening, but I think everyone thought Delta was what was going to make COVID endemic. Nope, it’s omicron. Everyone is getting this. Within a few weeks. Get boosted if you’re worried. Even then you’re prob still gonna get it

Me and my immediate family have all managed to not get Covid at all( at least never tested positive for it). I was in NYC two weeks ago and on our flight out I saw on the news the first case of omicron was identified in NJ. Sounds like we just missed it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Everyone would argue its better to have a healthy immune system, which is why everyone should look at minimizing their risk. Which is why the infection rates, as you pointed out, are exponentially more favorable to vaccinated people. Long haul COVID has been shown to have terrible long term side effects. I agree it's important to have good therapeutics ready, especially if boosters can't be administered fast enough to blunt a rise in hospitalizations.

1) There are documented long term side effects from Covid in some people

2) We still don't know the long term effects of the shots

3) The pharma companies have no liability if someone gets the shot and has negative consequences following

4) I got Covid in November, but I'm 36, run 4-5 days a week, eat right, no health problems, etc. I thought it was the common cold until I lost smell and taste.

 

[notredomer23]

Me and my immediate family have all managed to not get Covid at all( at least never tested positive for it). I was in NYC two weeks ago and on our flight out I saw on the news the first case of omicron was identified in NJ. Sounds like we just missed it.

You got out at the right time. The real case numbers are suppressed by at home tests. It’s at least 3X the shown number.

 

[PerthDomer]

1) There are documented long term side effects from Covid in some people

2) We still don't know the long term effects of the shots

3) The pharma companies have no liability if someone gets the shot and has negative consequences following

4) I got Covid in November, but I'm 36, run 4-5 days a week, eat right, no health problems, etc. I thought it was the common cold until I lost smell and taste.

We know non-live vaccines don't have long term side effects unless they cause a problem in the 1st few months of the shot. A long term side effect doesn't make sense mechanistically. What we don't know are the long term side effects of a mild moderate or severe covid infection. There are a lot of reasons to think they might be bad.

 

[TorontoGold]

1) There are documented long term side effects from Covid in some people

2) We still don't know the long term effects of the shots

3) The pharma companies have no liability if someone gets the shot and has negative consequences following

4) I got Covid in November, but I'm 36, run 4-5 days a week, eat right, no health problems, etc. I thought it was the common cold until I lost smell and taste.

I know numbers aren't the easiest for you, but which rate of infection is higher - 5.19 or 0.59 per 10,000 people? So if we know, as you've agreed we do know that COVID has long term side effects, wouldn't it be the smart thing to do and reduce your risk?

Also actual healthcare professionals have said any side effects would be present shortly after taking the vaccine, so if you have studies that prove counter, show them. Otherwise, you can't support your claims (again).

 

[yankeehater]

Dengue vaccine Philippines in 2017 the effects were not seen immediately. This rushed roll out led to criminal charges.

https://www.science.org/content/arti...er-philippines

 

[yankeehater]

Still waiting on one of our resident medical experts to explain the difference in the spike protein in Sars2 versus the vaccine for Sars2.

 

[notredomer23]

Dengue vaccine Philippines in 2017 the effects were not seen immediately. This rushed roll out led to criminal charges.

https://www.science.org/content/arti...er-philippines

See Perth’s previous post. Dengvaxia used lived virus

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I know numbers aren't the easiest for you, but which rate of infection is higher - 5.19 or 0.59 per 10,000 people? So if we know, as you've agreed we do know that COVID has long term side effects, wouldn't it be the smart thing to do and reduce your risk?

Also actual healthcare professionals have said any side effects would be present shortly after taking the vaccine, so if you have studies that prove counter, show them. Otherwise, you can't support your claims (again).

If you're not old and have and no health issues, what's the difference at this point between getting the shot or not getting the shot? Especially given what we've seen thus far with the omicron variant, I'm not putting too much concern at all with infection rates. I'd be concerned if it was like April 2020 again with hospitalizations and deaths but it's not close. Most people are describing it similar to what we used to call the flu or common cold. I'd like to reiterate here (again) that I'm not anti vaccine, but I am anti mandate.

On top of that, look at all the vaccinated pro athletes who are double vaxxed and still testing positive.

The whole point of us not knowing anything about long term side effects of the shot is the point. It hasn't even been a year. I already noted one example of the NBA player's blood clots and you chose to ignore it because it goes against your narrative. What we do know now is that getting the vaccine doesn't stop everyone from getting covid or spreading covid (Kevin Durant and Sean Payton now got it twice), and that the pharma companies distributing it still cannot be held liable if anything happens but still making billions in profit. Gooooo figure.

 

[PerthDomer]

Dengue vaccine Philippines in 2017 the effects were not seen immediately. This rushed roll out led to criminal charges.

https://www.science.org/content/arti...er-philippines

ADE is a side effect you can predict based on the immune response to the virus and vaccine (or at least know the risk exists). As the article mentions the reason Dengue kills is wild type infection generates ADE vs. Another strain. If you infected someone a month out from the vaccine you'd see ADE. So the side effect is there. Additionally with the numerous strains floating around even if the scientists were wrong, you'd have seen ADE by now.

If COVID were a rare infection you might have a point in being concerned the immediate side effect of ADE risk could pop up in 10 years. Thing is though, COVID is epidemic. The rate of infection and generation of new strains reveals the induced side effect (if it's there) there quickly.

The way mRNA vaccines alter the spike actually makes ADE less likely. The spike has a lot of epitopes (targets) however, it's set up to change conformation and hide them from the immune system when it binds to cells. The changes made stop the vaccine spike from hiding its epitopes and generates more robust antibody and t cell immunity than wild type infection does.

Another good example of a side effect that occurs within 2 months but got picked up later is myocarditis. It occurred quickly post vaccine but is so rare picking up the signal took over 2 months.

The other major example of ADE that got picked up (because it was a better run trial) is RSV. It also has a cell binding domain that changes shape on cell binding. So the vaccine produced antibodies to the wrong shape of the virus and you got antibodies that triggered the immune system but didn't clear virus. This led to excess inflammation that worsened infection with the virus. The promise of the mRNA vaccine is that we have an RSV vaccine in the pipeline that fixed the problem because you can just fix the protein target by making edits to mRNA so the resultant protein doesn't change shape. It's cool stuff. Because RSV kills 10k seniors a year and puts a lot of healthy infants in the ICU. We may have a working vaccine in the next decade.

 

[PerthDomer]

To remind everyone COVID was like a mild cold for most who got it in the initial wave. It is currently spreading fast which is why it's hard to figure out how deadly it is. Below is a link explaining exactly why this is the case. But basically the more contagious this is, the more you will underestimate virulence in the short to medium term, and you could be off by a factor of greater than 10 if your assumed growth rate is off by 10%


https://paulromer.net/grow-severity-confound/

 

[TorontoGold]

If you're not old and have and no health issues, what's the difference at this point between getting the shot or not getting the shot? Especially given what we've seen thus far with the omicron variant, I'm not putting too much concern at all with infection rates. I'd be concerned if it was like April 2020 again with hospitalizations and deaths but it's not close. Most people are describing it similar to what we used to call the flu or common cold. I'd like to reiterate here (again) that I'm not anti vaccine, but I am anti mandate.

On top of that, look at all the vaccinated pro athletes who are double vaxxed and still testing positive.

The whole point of us not knowing anything about long term side effects of the shot is the point. It hasn't even been a year. I already noted one example of the NBA player's blood clots and you chose to ignore it because it goes against your narrative. What we do know now is that getting the vaccine doesn't stop everyone from getting covid or spreading covid (Kevin Durant and Sean Payton now got it twice), and that the pharma companies distributing it still cannot be held liable if anything happens but still making billions in profit. Gooooo figure.

The difference is you are 10x more likely to be infected if you aren't vaccinated, that's before even getting into the hospitalization/death rates. Per the study that Bobby had posted, even he posts studies (albeit that run counter to his point) why can't you support arguments with science and stats?

You're not anti-vax, yet you're fighting vigorously against people taking them. "I'm not a Michigan fan, I just cheer for them in every game they play"

I ignored an anecdotal story because it's not relevant. It would be like me saying I hit my driver 350 yards once, it's further than the PGA driving average....therefore I'm a better at hitting it off the tee then the average PGA pro. When you say "what we do know now", we've always known this, these vaccines have always been this way. You're worried about them making money on these vaccines, boy I hope you don't find out who makes Advil/Tylenol. Be mad at the government for not having regulations in place for this, a capitalist enterprise making money in this economy?!?! Noooooo way.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The difference is you are 10x more likely to be infected if you aren't vaccinated, that's before even getting into the hospitalization/death rates. Per the study that Bobby had posted, even he posts studies (albeit that run counter to his point) why can't you support arguments with science and stats?

You're not anti-vax, yet you're fighting vigorously against people taking them. "I'm not a Michigan fan, I just cheer for them in every game they play"

I ignored an anecdotal story because it's not relevant. It would be like me saying I hit my driver 350 yards once, it's further than the PGA driving average....therefore I'm a better at hitting it off the tee then the average PGA pro. When you say "what we do know now", we've always known this, these vaccines have always been this way. You're worried about them making money on these vaccines, boy I hope you don't find out who makes Advil/Tylenol. Be mad at the government for not having regulations in place for this, a capitalist enterprise making money in this economy?!?! Noooooo way.

It's exhausting having to explain the same logic to you twice:

Here's some science and stats...we're talking about a virus that has a 99% survival rate. If you're vaccinated and still contracting covid what the hell is the point of the vaccine? I support anyone's choice to get it, and oppose any company/ government body who would force someone to get it. Not too difficult to comprehend, bud.

If I were 74 years old coming off a heart attack, I would get the vaccine. This virus poses very minimal risk to the young and healthy. Being 36 and healthy, I'm willing to take that risk and Covid had little impact on me. At the same time, we can now all question the effectiveness of the vaccine if people are still contracting it after getting the shot(s).

As a full blown capitalist, I'm not worried about any of these pharma companies making money for what they produce. They deserve it. Making billions for producing an experimental vaccine with NO liability for negative consequences is bullshit.

 

[PerthDomer]

UK disease modelers predict that if nothing changes there the likely daily death rate peaks at 600 to 6k per day. Adjusting for population that's 3k to 30k here. Last winter's peak was just above 3k per day. We will impose less restrictions than they have and have a far less vaccinated far less boosted population. Omicron is looking really bad. I'd recommend getting vaccinated and boosted to reduce the risk of severe disease which is a real possibility for any adult in America, especially those with just one infection with no vaccination. Even if they're in their 30s (which we see). The strain on the hospital system is going to be enormous

 

[TorontoGold]

It's exhausting having to explain the same logic to you twice:

Here's some science and stats...we're talking about a virus that has a 99% survival rate. If you're vaccinated and still contracting covid what the hell is the point of the vaccine? I support anyone's choice to get it, and oppose any company/ government body who would force someone to get it. Not too difficult to comprehend, bud.

If I were 74 years old coming off a heart attack, I would get the vaccine. This virus poses very minimal risk to the young and healthy. Being 36 and healthy, I'm willing to take that risk and Covid had little impact on me. At the same time, we can now all question the effectiveness of the vaccine if people are still contracting it after getting the shot(s).

As a full blown capitalist, I'm not worried about any of these pharma companies making money for what they produce. They deserve it. Making billions for producing an experimental vaccine with NO liability for negative consequences is bullshit.

1% swing in something over a sample population in the millions is quite a high number, pal. In financial services you should know that minimizing tax exposure by 1% is a huge deal. So the whole notion of "oh 1% is meaningless" shouldn't be lost on you.

I'm guessing you've never gotten vaccines for anything else in your life right? Why bother, the viral spread for a lot of standard viruses you get vaccines for are low.

Where is the DOJ opinion on "pharma company's have carte blanche yolo they can do what they want".

You've yet to show any data/stats/papers to show any sort of merit, here or about any economic indicators. This must have been what it felt like going against BVG defenses and knowing the clown putting them on the field had no idea what he was doing.

 

[Valpodoc85]

If you're not old and have and no health issues, what's the difference at this point between getting the shot or not getting the shot? Especially given what we've seen thus far with the omicron variant, I'm not putting too much concern at all with infection rates. I'd be concerned if it was like April 2020 again with hospitalizations and deaths but it's not close. Most people are describing it similar to what we used to call the flu or common cold. I'd like to reiterate here (again) that I'm not anti vaccine, but I am anti mandate.

On top of that, look at all the vaccinated pro athletes who are double vaxxed and still testing positive.

The whole point of us not knowing anything about long term side effects of the shot is the point. It hasn't even been a year. I already noted one example of the NBA player's blood clots and you chose to ignore it because it goes against your narrative. What we do know now is that getting the vaccine doesn't stop everyone from getting covid or spreading covid (Kevin Durant and Sean Payton now got it twice), and that the pharma companies distributing it still cannot be held liable if anything happens but still making billions in profit. Gooooo figure.

here is a way to think about it. The percentage of fatal car accidents is .06to.07% but you wear a seat belt because it diminishes that risk and decreases the risk of debility. But, you say, there is no risk to wearing a seat belt only inconvenience. No, there is an entire literature of bad things that can happen from wearing a seat belt. It is generally considered safer to wear a seat belt than not and the benefits out weigh the risks. For those unable to grasp this we pass seat belt laws.

 

[SBirishlawyer]

I cant follow what’s happening in this thread today

 

[SBirishlawyer]

Is there a reason, that saying most people will get vaccinated, some wont. The ones who dont probably should but I am not gonna boss them? Is that not good enough?

 

[TorontoGold]

Is there a reason, that saying most people will get vaccinated, some wont. The ones who dont probably should but I am not gonna boss them? Is that not good enough?

Because it's a respiratory disease spread by air/droplets, the general public can't properly assess their personal risk, and anti vaxxers are clogging up hospitals leading to delayed procedures for the rest of the population.

Like smoking indoors.

 

[SBirishlawyer]

Because it's a respiratory disease spread by air/droplets, the general public can't properly assess their personal risk, and anti vaxxers are clogging up hospitals leading to delayed procedures for the rest of the population.

Like smoking indoors.

Now i miss smoking. When i was young you could still smoke in the burger king

 

[Wild Bill]

Now i miss smoking. When i was young you could still smoke in the burger king

Of all the timelines I couldn't been born into, I was born into one where I can't even rip a cig after enjoying a flame broiled burger.

 

[PerthDomer]

Is there a reason, that saying most people will get vaccinated, some wont. The ones who dont probably should but I am not gonna boss them? Is that not good enough?

Because if I get sent to the hospital after a car accident I'd like to be seen by a normally staffed hospital, not one executing crisis standards of care.

 

[dad4aa]

Because if I get sent to the hospital after a car accident I'd like to be seen by a normally staffed hospital, not one executing crisis standards of care.

Then maybe the hospital shouldn’t fire/suspend unvaccinated staff

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

1% swing in something over a sample population in the millions is quite a high number, pal. In financial services you should know that minimizing tax exposure by 1% is a huge deal. So the whole notion of "oh 1% is meaningless" shouldn't be lost on you.

I'm guessing you've never gotten vaccines for anything else in your life right? Why bother, the viral spread for a lot of standard viruses you get vaccines for are low.

Where is the DOJ opinion on "pharma company's have carte blanche yolo they can do what they want".

You've yet to show any data/stats/papers to show any sort of merit, here or about any economic indicators. This must have been what it felt like going against BVG defenses and knowing the clown putting them on the field had no idea what he was doing.

The 1% isn't lost on me and the 99% shouldn't be lost on you.

The vaccines I got earlier in life actually worked.

I don't need papers or charts to make these arguments: The original strain has a 99% survival rate, omicron is mild and much less threatening, some people who got the shot have had serious negative consequences, people are double vaxxed and still getting covid, and I support anyone's decision to get the shot, and no employer/ government should force anyone to get it.

BVG thought he was the smartest guy in every room he walked into, and no one on this board is more impressed with you than you. Have fun with your next round of lockdowns.