Conspiracy Thread

J

johnnykillz

Guest
HAARP has some intense ability. One of the more intelligent effects:ability to create weather.

I think the application doesn't have enough data from inducing rainfall in areas of drought. Doing so may create counterbalances that could literally fvck-up every weather pattern, in particular of concern, areas of habitat highly dependent on rainfall, i.e., the rain forests...

Thoughts?
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
This is my understanding of the nature of the HAARP facility and its physical function: this out-sized laboratory is designed to push electromagnetic waves into the atmosphere in order to study their effects on the ionosphere. It is the most powerful e-m pusher on the planet.

The antenna array is several acres across, but not outrageously large as these antenna-type things can be made [look up the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico for one which "listens" for radio signals from space.] The HAARP antenna is "tunable" in that it can broadcast e-m radiation at specific frequencies. This tuneability is necessary as this is no crude tool just to slash away at things up there. The scientists select wavelengths that they suspect may have interesting effects upon the thin gaseous components of the ionosphere, fire away and measure the results spectroscopically.

The produced power is high, but the ionosphere is thin, and effects usually last for less than 5-10 minutes, many less than a minute. Because the target is the ionosphere, no weather effects result [weather is produced in the troposphere or/and the stratosphere.] Heating of the patch of ionosphere rapidly dissipates due to the low temperature at that height and the short time bursts of the HAARP transmitter [all of this, by the way can be garnered by reading the published papers of the large numbers of researchers using the facility].

The HAARP cannot effect atmospheric conditions, even just in the ionosphere, over any area other than the area nearly directly over the transmitter itself....the technology is very limited to "upward-looking" and its placement was selected by two criteria: a]. US soil; and b]. auroral formation naturally in the ionosphere overhead. Weather, particularly in distant geographies, is way out of range [even if there were any weather effects at all, which there are not].

Time on the "machine" is coveted by atmospheric researchers all across the US, who petition to use the facility. Certain universities are favored as they have some sponsorship in the project [examples: MIT, Virginia Tech, Clemson, several others]. Dozens of straight-science research papers have been published in mainline science journals, and you can read some of this on line.

My feeling is that the reason that we have internet conspiracy theories about HAARP, is that the government agencies originally involved with the facility [esp. the Navy and the Air Force] kept their intentions secret. Alaskans being naturally suspicious of we lower-48ers asked questions which were unsatisfactorily non-answered. A couple of "entrepreneurs" smelt a bit of fame and fortune, added in the thoughts of the genuinely mysterious Nikola Tesla, and off we go.

It's easy to make things that are in fact scientific nonsense seem plausible to folks who don't have the training to protect themselves. Plus, we live in a world where people want some mystery and the evil forces of science tend to destroy that. I'm sympathetic to the feeling, and that's why I've studied these things all my academic life [as a sideline, because you can't get tenure doing them]. Some, thankfully, turn out to be true. HAARP-as-WeatherGun isn't one of them, though.
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
My counterargument:

"Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device.

Continuing:

Avalanches of energy dislodged by such radio waves could hit us hard. Their work suggests that technicians could control global weather by sending relatively small 'signals' into the Van Allen belts (radiation belts around Earth). Thus Tesla's resonance effects can control enormous energies by tiny triggering signals.
The Begich/ Manning book asks whether that knowledge will be used by war-oriented or biosphere-oriented scientists.
The military has had about twenty years to work on weather warfare methods, which it euphemistically calls weather modification. For example, rainmaking technology was taken for a few test rides in Vietnam. The U.S. Department of Defense sampled lightning and hurricane manipulation studies in Project Skyfire and Project Stormfury. And they looked at some complicated technologies that would give big effects. Angels Don't Play This HAARP cites an expert who says the military studied both lasers and chemicals which they figured could damage the ozone layer over an enemy. Looking at ways to cause earthquakes, as well as to detect them, was part of the project named Prime Argus, decades ago. The money for that came from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA, now under the acronym ARPA.) In 1994 the Air Force revealed its Spacecast 2020 master plan which includes weather control. Scientists have experimented with weather control since the 1940's, but Spacecast 2020 noted that "using environmental modification techniques to destroy, damage or injure another state are prohibited." Having said that, the Air Force claimed that advances in technology "compels a reexamination of this sensitive and potentially risky topic."

Among other interest:


The military says the HAARP system could:


  • Give the military a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse effect of atmospheric thermonuclear devices (still considered a viable option by the military through at least 1986)
  • Replace the huge Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) submarine communication system operating in Michigan and Wisconsin with a new and more compact technology
  • Be used to replace the over-the-horizon radar system that was once planned for the current location of HAARP, with a more flexible and accurate system
  • Provide a way to wipe out communications over an extremely large area, while keeping the military's own communications systems working
  • Provide a wide area earth-penetrating tomography which, if combined with the computing abilities of EMASS and Cray computers, would make it possible to verify many parts of nuclear nonproliferation and peace agreements
  • Be a tool for geophysical probing to find oil, gas and mineral deposits over a large area
  • Be used to detect incoming low-level planes and cruise missiles, making other technologies obsolete

HAARP.net - The Military's Pandora's Box by Dr. Nick Begich and Jeane Manning
 
Last edited:

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
If your reading of Begich has impressed you that he makes sense, then I can't do much else on this topic. All I will say, and with complete respect, is that I buy almost nothing in the array of things that Begich is the conspiracy expert about, with the single exception that there probably is something to the dangers involved with having the electromagnetic fields of cellular devices constantly up against your brain's temporal lobes. I knew a French scientist who was studying these things for a major university and the government, and he told me that these were the only devices which produced notable negative effects. Other than that, Begich's opinions on his other issues divert markedly from the mass of scientific information available. Sorry for that, but it's where the data lead me; others will see things differently.
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
If your reading of Begich has impressed you that he makes sense, then I can't do much else on this topic. All I will say, and with complete respect, is that I buy almost nothing in the array of things that Begich is the conspiracy expert about, with the single exception that there probably is something to the dangers involved with having the electromagnetic fields of cellular devices constantly up against your brain's temporal lobes. I knew a French scientist who was studying these things for a major university and the government, and he told me that these were the only devices which produced notable negative effects. Other than that, Begich's opinions on his other issues divert markedly from the mass of scientific information available. Sorry for that, but it's where the data lead me; others will see things differently.

Weren't you a Professor of English, OMM?

Maybe you could brush up on some physics, sir... ;)
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
I never thought that i'd have to defend my credentials on IE. I graduated from Notre Dame in Chemistry [four semesters of physics, plus labs].; I graduated from Iowa State in biochemistry, and in the History and Philosophy of Science, thesis in the latter on 19th century physics; I graduated from Case Western Reserve in the History of Science and Technology [thesis on Physical Chemistry]. I taught thirty years at Western Michigan University as a "Professor of Natural Sciences" teaching a Saganesque "COSMOS-like" course emphasizing astronomy, planetary science, geological and biological evolution, and the development of intelligence, as one of several courses. Later I taught Environmental sciences for fifteen years, which including the physical sciences elements of that, including atmospheric physics and chemistry.

Now, that was pretty unpleasant for me as it doubtless was for everyone else, and maybe if I stick to football it won't come up again. But, one thing, you could present to me your own credentials for assessing Begich's theories on things like the Van Allen Belts and weather, and the ionosphere and terrestrial wind patterns.

I'm outta here though on the non-football stuff. Should never get involved with things folks think are important to them...at 70 years old, you'd think that I'd learn. By the way, I was the 14th, I think, interview on Art Bell's Coast-to-coast when he went national back in 1989 or whenever. A real skeptic, huh??
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
I never thought that i'd have to defend my credentials on IE.

Or maybe you could enjoy a little joke-jab...

If you really want to know my credentials and you weren't just joking, as I was with you, I'll send them to you.

Didn't you notice my references have all been far from scholarly.

But to feed wood to the fire, wouldn't all legitimate sources be non-scholarly on the said subject OMM?

What kind of physicist would proof defect HAARP's applications and possiblities in their right minds and screw any potential for funding/employment from the US government, unless they were already madly rich.

Lastly, I was having a good time. I didn't mean to strum a string that would reach a frequency relevent those things that irritate you Mike.

You have to know that about me by now.

Who in the hell is Art Bell and when did we start random name-dropping/credential-dropping on a fun thread?
 
Last edited:
J

johnnykillz

Guest
*Note/Disclaimer: None of these "theories" are meant to incite emotions of any sort; none of these theories are meant to be taken as truth; lastly, enjoy the **** out of yourself when you read these. The only truth is that the Federal Reserve was designed to perpetually enslave the American people... That is all.
 
Last edited:

IrishInFl

Back in Florida
Messages
5,288
Reaction score
424
Well, I didn't want to get involved with this thread, but it's July 21, 100 degrees in Wheeling WV, and national IQ is at a catastrophic minimum. So....

Over many years I've amused myself by studying several of these "mysteries" in a sometimes successful attempt to mitigate boredom [I have almost no interest in the particularly "political" ones though, as they are usually, in the end, no fun and decay into screaming matches if you ever want to talk about any of them]. But some of the other stuff is pretty fascinating.

One thing about "conspiracy": Conspiracy is a "group thing". To have a conspiracy you need to have at least two powerfully important entities who have come together and agreed to either perform a significant action whether that be physical [shooting JFK] or psychological [manipulating the opinion of target groups, usually the public at large]. It always involves deception. This is either flat-out secrecy as to the agenda or perpetrators, or flat-out lying to important individuals, the media, or the public; and often all three.

When you look at "conspiracy" this way, you understand that it is a valuable tool when used by the government in national security situations, and in fact has very often been so used. The movie line, "You have no NEED to know!!", is one part of this useful game. So, people who believe that there are conspiracies are correct --- but they may not be correct about which ones.

An example of a "mystery" that I've studied fairly extensively is the claim that such a thing as the chupacapra exists. This isn't a conspiracy unless you want to see money-hungry media in league with book-selling liars as forming a wink-wink conspiracy. Chupacapras [sadly] simply don't exist. It would be a more interesting world if they did [and I'm all for that], but following up the tales and quality of the evidence, they just don't add up. You have a lot better shot with the British Columbia "sea monster" being real in terms of evidence. [I am, in fact, serious about that statement, and am predisposed to giving these things a full sympathetic study].

On the other hand, if some government agency told you in 1953 that neither the Air Force nor the CIA were taking Unidentified Flying Objects seriously, they would be part of a conspiracy to manipulate public opinion in the name of national security. This is a simple fact, as all the documents from the CIA [and the USAF] are now released and they describe the run-up to a panel of scientists and USAF intelligence operatives as ordered by President Truman and CIA director General Walter B. Smith. The actions were being taken due to psychological warfare issues and completely understandable [though, as usual in these things, somewhat grating to our American ideals of "free speech" etc].

Many other such things are out there---always more interesting if you actually study them rather than listen to the shallow sound byte media opinions. HAARP is an example. It is a legitimate USN [I think] project, which there was some lying about but is mainly technological regarding the electromagnetic environment of the Earth and how that plays into e-m signals and receptions. By lying about the secret project, an internet conspiracy industry formed about the thing. If there is significant e-m field generated by the array, it could affect the local ecology, but will not be used as a death ray.

Anyway, this could go on forever, but I see all the students are already asleep....

its_a_conspiracy.jpg
 

tankjeep

New member
Messages
2,511
Reaction score
67
Or maybe you could enjoy a little joke-jab...

If you really want to know my credentials and you weren't just joking, as I was with you, I'll send them to you.

Didn't you notice my references have all been far from scholarly.

But to feed wood to the fire, wouldn't all legitimate sources be non-scholarly on the said subject OMM?

What kind of physicist would proof defect HAARP's applications and possiblities in their right minds and screw any potential for funding/employment from the US government, unless they were already madly rich.

Lastly, I was having a good time. I didn't mean to strum a string that would reach a frequency relevent those things that irritate you Mike.

You have to know that about me by now.

Who in the hell is Art Bell and when did we start random name-dropping/credential-dropping on a fun thread?


johnny you can be such a douche......tee hee hee.
 

ToledoGoIrish

New member
Messages
107
Reaction score
4
I also have a hard time allowing myself to believe that the government would willing allow the slaughter of so many innocent people. Then again, phrases like "acceptable losses" and "collateral damage" are commonplace in situation rooms, so I am not sure what to believe. I have a small scope of how much money was made as a result of 9/11 and the figures are staggering, so anything could be possible.


ever heard of the term false flag operation?
 

ToledoGoIrish

New member
Messages
107
Reaction score
4
Once again, a substantial number of guests have since joined after rekindling this thread.

I expect my computer to poop on me again now.

that s funny because i frequent Conspiracy planet and seems damn near everytime im done my PC wants to run slower on me for some time. I didnt wanna feel paranoid so i wrote it off as just that.
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
Neutered: it really is "your" ... as in your book, your opinion, your reading.... but I'm willing to change.
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
Heck, just nice to hear from you. dshans would like a visit too. [hmmmm... when starting a sentence with a guy's name, who insists that it's not capitalized, who wins? dshans or the Queen's English?].
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
Wow.

Nice lead.

Anyone got a great conspiracy regarding the queen other than our bankers here in the US?

Princess Diana stuff?
 

military_irish

New member
Messages
4,725
Reaction score
304
Wow.

Nice lead.

Anyone got a great conspiracy regarding the queen other than our bankers here in the US?

Princess Diana stuff?

I can't remember if I read this or seen it on Netflix but just some small tid bits were that the Royal Family believed Diana was pregnant with a Muslim's baby. Her presumed boyfriend at the time. The Royal Family thought it would be a disgrace if the heir's to the thrown were anywhere near related to a Muslim, so they had it set up to have her killed in a car accident.

Don't quote me on every detail, just going from the top of my head. But one theory was that. Of course, there are different theories, heck it may have been nothing more than a real car accident.
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

Guest
God bless our military...

And a special shout out to our Special Forces....

We know not what you do, or how you do it....

We just know that you deliver results. Semper Fi.... Anchors Away... and Go Army... Love across the board...
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181
I can't remember if I read this or seen it on Netflix but just some small tid bits were that the Royal Family believed Diana was pregnant with a Muslim's baby. Her presumed boyfriend at the time. The Royal Family thought it would be a disgrace if the heir's to the thrown were anywhere near related to a Muslim, so they had it set up to have her killed in a car accident.

Don't quote me on every detail, just going from the top of my head. But one theory was that. Of course, there are different theories, heck it may have been nothing more than a real car accident.

The problem with this theory is that any child of Diana's, outside of her marriage to Prince Charles, would NOT be an heir to the throne. Diana was a royal by marriage, not by blood.
 

NankerPhelge

WANKER
Messages
805
Reaction score
126
Well, everybody knows that Frank Zappa and Leon Redbone were one and the same person. And that after Frank/Leon died, they got a look-alike who is still touring the country pretending to be the real Leon Redbone.
 

military_irish

New member
Messages
4,725
Reaction score
304
The problem with this theory is that any child of Diana's, outside of her marriage to Prince Charles, would NOT be an heir to the throne. Diana was a royal by marriage, not by blood.

Yeah I know but the Royal Family didn't want the heirs to be related at all to a Muslim and if she was pregnant the kids would be half brothers. But again that is just a theory so who knows.
 

military_irish

New member
Messages
4,725
Reaction score
304
Apparently UFO's were around Notre Dame Stadium while it was storming. I think they might have been the reason behind the defeat.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/f8tqCne_B20" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

NDFANnSouthWest

We are ND!
Messages
4,806
Reaction score
199
Apparently UFO's were around Notre Dame Stadium while it was storming. I think they might have been the reason behind the defeat.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/f8tqCne_B20" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

interesting.
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
hmmmm....I know a great deal about this field of study, it being a lifelong hobby [which caused me a certain amount of grief as a college science teacher].

Film/photo evidence is the trickiest in the business as many things can go "wrong" in surprising ways [sort of like our game the other day]. Although on the first glance, this seems to show an object of some kind making movements against the direction of the wind, no competent UFO researcher would accept the evidence as anything but "interesting" until they acquired access to the device which filmed it and did tests with it --- especially as to internal reflections or electronic aberrations, depending upon the technology.

Even once the device passed the test, the case rarely gets much credence unless the witness says that he/she saw the thing in action, rather than just discovered it on film later. Then one needs to find another witness or at least an associate who was immediately told about the thing. Etc. Etc. Establishing one of these things as a likely "true" UFO is very difficult, particularly given sociological prejudice against the subject.

As to the UFO causing our defeat ... if the UFOnauts are "little green men" {they aren't, but just for jokes sake}, they certainly will find soul brothers in leprechauns and root for the Irish.
 
Top