Children, School, Unions and Teacher's going on strike.

[Circa]

As many of us are very aware we have a dilemma of epic proportions within the public school system.
I am currently residing in West Virginia and the teachers are on the verge of a full Strike. They currently are on a walk out.
The reason is insurance and the premiums over-riding a 4% raise over 3-4 years.
I have opinions about everything under our sun. Looking for facts over the whole of our nation and how this type of situation has been handled.

 

[Irish8248]

Minimal contributions towards health care is the new social security. It's not sustainable.

 

[Circa]

Minimal contributions towards health care is the new social security. It's not sustainable.

For the employer?

 

[Irish8248]

For the employer?

Employee... you can't have top notch plan and expect 10% or less from the employee contribution. As health care costs rise so should the contribution for premiums.

 

[Circa]

Employee... you can't have top notch plan and expect 10% or less from the employee contribution. As health care costs rise so should the contribution for premiums.

Ok, so when they asked,(Republicans) during the beginning stages of our taxation without healthcareregulation bill. they didn't want single payer. It's not that easy buddy.

 

[Circa]

Employee... you can't have top notch plan and expect 10% or less from the employee contribution. As health care costs rise so should the contribution for premiums.

So, I take It that as a southerner we should say f the poor and take care of the people that understand the law. Come on man. Y'all should watch Lincoln. Danial did ya'll good with bringin yun's in.

 

[johnnycando]

#Obamacare

 

[Irish YJ]

WV teachers are among the worst paid teachers in the US. Their test results are among the lowest though too.

Perhaps they want to be like CA and be among the highest paid and among the lowest scores?

 

[EddytoNow]

WV teachers are among the worst paid teachers in the US. Their test results are among the lowest though too.

Perhaps they want to be like CA and be among the highest paid and among the lowest scores?

The words "highest paid" should never be used in reference to teachers. And the test scores of West Virginia's students are more a reflection of the poverty, substance abuse, broken families, and other social factors impacting their education than a reflection on the men and women who dedicate their lives to assisting those students rise above the social conditions that have impacted their families for generations.

 

[IrishLax]

The words "highest paid" should never be used in reference to teachers. And the test scores of West Virginia's students are more a reflection of the poverty, substance abuse, broken families, and other social factors impacting their education than a reflection on the men and women who dedicate their lives to assisting those students rise above the social conditions that have impacted their families for generations.

Why? Are you inherently offended by the general concept of relativity?

You can have "highest paid" and "lowest paid" firemen, cops, janitors, doctors, athletes, engineers, architects, musicians, artists, farmers, journalists, etc. That's how professions work. And it's valuable for discussion of compensation.

 

[Irish YJ]

The words "highest paid" should never be used in reference to teachers. And the test scores of West Virginia's students are more a reflection of the poverty, substance abuse, broken families, and other social factors impacting their education than a reflection on the men and women who dedicate their lives to assisting those students rise above the social conditions that have impacted their families for generations.

I don't doubt there are social factors. But you should not doubt that some state school systems can do things better either. You can "lib" this all you want to, but but the facts are facts. If progressiveness is the answer, why is CA the most "progressive" state in the US, with highest paid teachers, and still sitting on the bottom tier of proficiency results. Why then are their states sitting in the bottom 50% of average income and are scoring in the top tier of both math and reading proficiency.

People need to leave the political BS out of the argument and understand why some school systems are doing more with less, and some are doing less with more. Indiana for example is a decent example. High substance abuse, bottom 50% of average income, top tier in proficiency.

I'd say the biggest social factor contributing to poor results is single parent homes. Those number track pretty decent to proficiency except in a few states. CA has good single parent results (lower than average), but still low tier in proficiency.

Social issues certainly contribute, but they should not be used as an excuse to turn a blind eye to failures than can and should be addressed.

 

[NDohio]

Anybody watching Undercover High?

It's a great look at what goes on in a public school. I'll worn you though, it'll piss you off seeing the way kids act and how little is done to curb their action.

 

[NDRock]

I don't doubt there are social factors. But you should not doubt that some state school systems can do things better either. You can "lib" this all you want to, but but the facts are facts. If progressiveness is the answer, why is CA the most "progressive" state in the US, with highest paid teachers, and still sitting on the bottom tier of proficiency results. Why then are their states sitting in the bottom 50% of average income and are scoring in the top tier of both math and reading proficiency.

People need to leave the political BS out of the argument and understand why some school systems are doing more with less, and some are doing less with more. Indiana for example is a decent example. High substance abuse, bottom 50% of average income, top tier in proficiency.

I'd say the biggest social factor contributing to poor results is single parent homes. Those number track pretty decent to proficiency except in a few states. CA has good single parent results (lower than average), but still low tier in proficiency.

Social issues certainly contribute, but they should not be used as an excuse to turn a blind eye to failures than can and should be addressed.

Are there some good places to find statistics on each state? Also, I believe each state tests differently. For instance, here in Tennessee all students must take the ACT, while in Indiana that isn’t the case. Of course the scores in Indiana will be better than those in Tennessee. Does this mean the students are more prepared? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[ACamp1900]

Anybody watching Undercover High?

It's a great look at what goes on in a public school. I'll worn you though, it'll piss you off seeing the way kids act and how little is done to curb their action.

I can say without even watching that the kids get away with insane amounts of disrespect and disorderly conduct,... it's one of a few key reasons I got out of public schools...

 

[NDohio]

I can say without even watching that the kids get away with insane amounts of disrespect and disorderly conduct,... it's one of a few key reasons I got out of public schools...

Yep. My wife teaches at a school that is of the same socioeconomic make-up of this school and she can't watch, it makes her too angry.

The most shocking thing is how out of control phone/tablet usage is.

For people that haven't been in a public high school environment in a while(or ever) it's worth watching.

 

[Irishize]

I can say without even watching that the kids get away with insane amounts of disrespect and disorderly conduct,... it's one of a few key reasons I got out of public schools...

I believe it was cited in the book “Legislating Morality” by Frank Turek, but he showed a poll of the biggest concerns teachers had in the 1940s vs the 1990s (book was published in 1998).

The biggest concerns in the 1940s was running in the halls, chewing gum in class, talking and other minor distractions.

By the 1990s, the concerns elevated to fighting, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, rape, sexual assault, murder, etc.

Bith sides of the political spectrum will blame the other for this decline. I think it’s simply nihilism.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

There is a reason my children won't be attending public school and this thread adequately sums up the reasons.

Are there some good places to find statistics on each state? Also, I believe each state tests differently. For instance, here in Tennessee all students must take the ACT, while in Indiana that isn’t the case. Of course the scores in Indiana will be better than those in Tennessee. Does this mean the students are more prepared? Maybe, maybe not.

Yes, it does mean that.

 

[GowerND11]

As a public school teacher in a juvenile placement there is a lot I can say... I choose not to though for many reasons. I will provide a few observations from my side though:

1, Students' home lives matter. Teachers many times are fighting those home lives and the lack of desire for education at home.
2, Disrespect is a real thing. Goes back to the home life. Teachers aren't deserving of respect according to parents, siblings, friends, which in turn means kids are fighting with teachers, not doing work, not going to school, etc.
3, We have a massive problem with funding. I don't mean that we always are suffering from a lack of funds. Rather, it's that these funds don't reach to the classroom for any real benefit for the students. I'm lucky in that we have a lot of resources for our kids (more so than many from inner cities would ever get). We have a room here dedicated to 3-D printing, laser engraving, shirt printing, poster design, you name it. Great opportunity for my kids, but we are an exception for lower income students.
4, After school programs have been shown to work, yet they get cut when funding dries up.
5, Politicians putting their hand in education without consulting ACTUAL educators.
6, I love teaching. My kids are, most often, the worst kids in class at school (when attending). Now I have an entire class every period of the worst kids. What people don't realize is many of these kids are very bright. They are however stunted in their educational growth at times due to lack of good schooling or attendance. Others are able to show they are bright, but don't want to because it still isn't cool in their cliques to be smart.

 

[spoonidentity]

Are there some good places to find statistics on each state? Also, I believe each state tests differently. For instance, here in Tennessee all students must take the ACT, while in Indiana that isn’t the case. Of course the scores in Indiana will be better than those in Tennessee. Does this mean the students are more prepared? Maybe, maybe not.

I was curious myself - I found this May 2017 report from the National Education Association: http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/2017_Rankings_and_Estimates_Report-FINAL-SECURED.pdf

I don't think that it is easy to really figure out national trends when each state is very different. Briefly looking over this 150 page report I found a few things interesting in tables C-3 to C-5

- West Virginia (original topic of this post) had the second lowest paid teachers in 2015-16 from the last year data was available. They were behind only Arizona ranked 51st (includes DC). Salary decreased from the previous year when WV was 46th.

- California has the highest paid teachers and the second most number of teachers behind only Texas. HOWEVER - they have the highest students per teacher ratio in the country at 22.5 per teacher because of the sheer volume of people in the state. For reference, Texas has 15.2 s:t ratio (27th highest); Indiana 17.4 (10th highest); Massachusetts 12.4 (41st highest); New Jersey 11.9 (50th highest or second lowest).

- Other salary rankings: Massachusetts 3rd highest, New Jersey 6th highest, New York highest

- It seems like student to teacher ratio is something to look at as well as the other factors like salary. I could not speak to the curriculum, teacher competency or retention rates among other factors that would affect student outcomes

Other websites I found with nice graphs/pictures but do not explain a comprehensive story
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-best-schools/5335/

https://www.edweek.org/ew/collections/quality-counts-2018-state-grades/report-card-map-rankings.html

 

[NDRock]

There is a reason my children won't be attending public school and this thread adequately sums up the reasons.



Yes, it does mean that.

Really? So if one state tests every student and another state only tests kids that plan on going to college, you think that is equal?

 

[Irish8248]

So, I take It that as a southerner we should say f the poor and take care of the people that understand the law. Come on man. Y'all should watch Lincoln. Danial did ya'll good with bringin yun's in.

Ok, cool... so give up tenure in exchange for lower health care costs? ... no not resonable? How many other professions have a built in perk that guarantees your job short of major criminal convictions

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Really? So if one state tests every student and another state only tests kids that plan on going to college, you think that is equal?

I didn't say it was equal. I would never make such a bold proclamation.

I said Indiana kids are smarter than Tennessee kids.

 

[NDRock]

I didn't say it was equal. I would never make such a bold proclamation.

I said Indiana kids are smarter than Tennessee kids.

Ha, probably true.

 

[NorthDakota]

I was curious myself - I found this May 2017 report from the National Education Association: http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/2017_Rankings_and_Estimates_Report-FINAL-SECURED.pdf

I don't think that it is easy to really figure out national trends when each state is very different. Briefly looking over this 150 page report I found a few things interesting in tables C-3 to C-5

- West Virginia (original topic of this post) had the second lowest paid teachers in 2015-16 from the last year data was available. They were behind only Arizona ranked 51st (includes DC). Salary decreased from the previous year when WV was 46th.

- California has the highest paid teachers and the second most number of teachers behind only Texas. HOWEVER - they have the highest students per teacher ratio in the country at 22.5 per teacher because of the sheer volume of people in the state. For reference, Texas has 15.2 s:t ratio (27th highest); Indiana 17.4 (10th highest); Massachusetts 12.4 (41st highest); New Jersey 11.9 (50th highest or second lowest).

- Other salary rankings: Massachusetts 3rd highest, New Jersey 6th highest, New York highest

- It seems like student to teacher ratio is something to look at as well as the other factors like salary. I could not speak to the curriculum, teacher competency or retention rates among other factors that would affect student outcomes

Other websites I found with nice graphs/pictures but do not explain a comprehensive story
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-best-schools/5335/

https://www.edweek.org/ew/collections/quality-counts-2018-state-grades/report-card-map-rankings.html

Are these salary rankings adjusted for cost of living? A teacher in Munich, North Dakota doesn't need to be paid as much as a teacher in Omaha, Nebraska...who in turn doesn't need to be paid as much as a teacher in San Francisco, etc.

 

[GowerND11]

Are these salary rankings adjusted for cost of living? A teacher in Munich, North Dakota doesn't need to be paid as much as a teacher in Omaha, Nebraska...who in turn doesn't need to be paid as much as a teacher in San Francisco, etc.

No they aren't. Which is why it would make sense that D.C., California, Massachusetts, and NY are up there in salary.

 

[Irish8248]

Employee... you can't have top notch plan and expect 10% or less from the employee contribution. As health care costs rise so should the contribution for premiums.

Ok, so when they asked,(Republicans) during the beginning stages of our taxation without healthcareregulation bill. they didn't want single payer. It's not that easy buddy.

Hahaha, you neg rep me for this? I'm not a student nor do I own a business, but sorry no one is joining your pity party

 

[Irish YJ]

Are there some good places to find statistics on each state? Also, I believe each state tests differently. For instance, here in Tennessee all students must take the ACT, while in Indiana that isn’t the case. Of course the scores in Indiana will be better than those in Tennessee. Does this mean the students are more prepared? Maybe, maybe not.

I gravitate towards the below link, but there's a ton out there that paints the same picture. Test is national and run by the US Ed Dept. I also prefer that the view is primarily 4th and 8th grade. If you're looking predominately at HS stats, you're already to late (I'm not saying we shouldn't measure and understand HS stats).

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/07/national-test-scores_n_4229264.html

 

[Irish YJ]

I can say without even watching that the kids get away with insane amounts of disrespect and disorderly conduct,... it's one of a few key reasons I got out of public schools...

A lot of kids today just don't give a shit. Sure social/economic issues contribute, but I know a tone of rich families with ass hole kids. Part of the problem is that everyone thinks they are special snowflakes. Many think they have a right to "fill in the blank". Many think they are owed by society...

Yep. My wife teaches at a school that is of the same socioeconomic make-up of this school and she can't watch, it makes her too angry.

The most shocking thing is how out of control phone/tablet usage is.

For people that haven't been in a public high school environment in a while(or ever) it's worth watching.

phones/tablets should be banned from the classroom. any tech should be left at the door.

As a public school teacher in a juvenile placement there is a lot I can say... I choose not to though for many reasons. I will provide a few observations from my side though:

1, Students' home lives matter. Teachers many times are fighting those home lives and the lack of desire for education at home.
2, Disrespect is a real thing. Goes back to the home life. Teachers aren't deserving of respect according to parents, siblings, friends, which in turn means kids are fighting with teachers, not doing work, not going to school, etc.
3, We have a massive problem with funding. I don't mean that we always are suffering from a lack of funds. Rather, it's that these funds don't reach to the classroom for any real benefit for the students. I'm lucky in that we have a lot of resources for our kids (more so than many from inner cities would ever get). We have a room here dedicated to 3-D printing, laser engraving, shirt printing, poster design, you name it. Great opportunity for my kids, but we are an exception for lower income students.
4, After school programs have been shown to work, yet they get cut when funding dries up.
5, Politicians putting their hand in education without consulting ACTUAL educators.
6, I love teaching. My kids are, most often, the worst kids in class at school (when attending). Now I have an entire class every period of the worst kids. What people don't realize is many of these kids are very bright. They are however stunted in their educational growth at times due to lack of good schooling or attendance. Others are able to show they are bright, but don't want to because it still isn't cool in their cliques to be smart.

Politics is a huge part of the problem. Figure out what works, level the playing field, and let results dictate.

I have friends that are teachers in both Indy and in ATL (both public and private in both states). I will say that there's a pretty decent gap in the teacher's attitude towards the profession and level of commitment between public and private, and between states.

What I can say based on their feedback is that private school teachers seem to care more about the profession and are willing to make less. Some are willing to make less just because they don't have to put up with the PS kids. The PS teachers I know complain non stop about the kids and kids parents, but also about a lot of other teachers coasting. A lot of the bitching is about tenure'd teachers, but they also complain about politics playing a role in favoritism and protectionism.

I think it was Bobby Knight that said something like: 20 years ago when a kid got punished at school, the parent would ask "what did my kid do". Today they ask "what did you do to my kid".

 

[SaltyND24]

I'm a high school geometry teacher at my alma mater here in CA. I'm not here to get into a back and forth. I'm not asking for a pity party. I'm just here to simply state my experiences. I make less than 60k a year and coach two sports for which I have to pay for gas to drive them to games (basketball) due to a limited budget. I don't have a single class with less than 30 kids in it, most of whom don't know their times tables. The disrespect I've seen from students (not towards me) is something I couldn't even fathom doing when I was in school, because there were consequences. Both at school and home. To be cussed out by a student and have that same student back in your class the next day isn't very empowering for teachers and kids today pick up on that. I once called home to a inform a parent of their child cheating and was told, " My child wouldn't do that. I don't believe you." I love it though and there's no easy fix, but please believe I'm going to grind every day to make the best of my situation. Everyone in the equation needs to be accountable: teachers, students, and parents.

 

[Irish8248]

I'm a high school geometry teacher at my alma mater here in CA. I'm not here to get into a back and forth. I'm not asking for a pity party. I'm just here to simply state my experiences. I make less than 60k a year and coach two sports for which I have to pay for gas to drive them to games (basketball) due to a limited budget. I don't have a single class with less than 30 kids in it, most of whom don't know their times tables. The disrespect I've seen from students (not towards me) is something I couldn't even fathom doing when I was in school, because there were consequences. Both at school and home. To be cussed out by a student and have that same student back in your class the next day isn't very empowering for teachers and kids today pick up on that. I once called home to a inform a parent of their child cheating and was told, " My child wouldn't do that. I don't believe you." I love it though and there's no easy fix, but please believe I'm going to grind every day to make the best of my situation. Everyone in the equation needs to be accountable: teachers, students, and parents.

Well said