BVG Fired

[gkIrish]

The thing is........ no coach has ever, to my knowledge, said that Schmidt was in there because he was the only one who could get everyone lined up right. I think some sportscasters alluded to that, and fans on the internet just jumped on it and suddenly it became "a fact" simply because so many people were repeating it.

If you listened to the postgame show each week on und.com, Reggie Brooks talked about this toward the end of the season. Reggie was plenty critical of Joe Schmidt all year, and is by no means a "company man". According to Reggie, who actually watched most practices over the course of the season; Schmidt's strength was that he was always where he was supposed to be on the field. He might not have been athletic enough to make the play, but he was in the spot he was supposed to be. The guys behind him apparently had issues "doing their job". They were more often than not OUT of position, because they were trying to be heroes and make all of the plays. So I think the coaches said, "We'd rather have a disciplined guy who struggles physically, and know that his mere presence in "x" area of the field takes certain things away from the offense, than to have a more athletic, undisciplined guy out there who is constantly out of position and leaving huge gaps for the offense to exploit."?

"Joe Schmidt is the leader on our defense," Kelly said. "You know, there's no one probably that has the kind of leadership and understanding of our defense than Joe has right now. Right now he can't come off the field. His knowledge base in terms of getting people lined up and having them execute what we do defensively, he's absolutely integral to what we're doing."

-Brian Kelly

 

[Irish Insanity]

-Brian Kelly

You should help us thru this long off season by reopening the BK Revisited thread.

 

[phgreek]

Again, you are correct. I am agreeing with you, but looking at it from a different perspective. It was a tremendous gamble to put all the defenses' eggs in one (Joe Schmidt) basket; but BVG and BK made that gamble and lost big.

But that criticism, though really warranted, is not indicative of 'coaching' per se. It is management. In an NFL team, that issue would be controlled by franchise management, not coaching. So I think that Brian Kelly's input and direction in this case were just as faulty and culpable as BVG's. That is all.

Early indications are that the defense is going to be simplified and streamlined this year. Even with the loss of Jaylon Smith the linebacking core should be okay, better at every other position, with greater depth. And hopefully Jarron Jones will be back full bore as a pocket collapser, and run stopper extraordinaire! Also, I am really looking forward to wholesale improvements in the db corps.

ok...it seemed like I wasn't getting my point across...I agree, there is some on BK too. I really hope they show up in Texas with this stuff worked out. BVG can't do a 3rd year of the Highlander QB of the defense...there can be only one.

 

[kmoose]

-Brian Kelly

Wow........... your desperation vis-à-vis Brian Kelly has reached new heights. Pulling a quote from April of 2014 to try to tie Kelly directly to the decision to keep Schmidt on the field in 2015 despite his limitations?

However, it does directly refute my statement, so I will clarify my earlier statement about no coach saying that it was Joe Schmidt's ability to line people that kept him on the field, to include the qualifier of "in 2015".

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Wow........... your desperation vis-à-vis Brian Kelly has reached new heights. Pulling a quote from April of 2014 to try to tie Kelly directly to the decision to keep Schmidt on the field in 2015 despite his limitations?

However, it does directly refute my statement, so I will clarify my earlier statement about no coach saying that it was Joe Schmidt's ability to line people that kept him on the field, to include the qualifier of "in 2015".

And of course the key point is Brian Kelly made that statement in BVG's first year. It was a revolutionary change for the whole team. Of course a coach would be looking for a 'quick study' among players!

But whomever stated that the media, and fan base ran with this exclusively has a key concept in the discord found in a discussion of BVG, and his defensive coaching ability.

It is easier to see things as black and white, bad, when a coach only has a player on the field for one (questionable) reason. Of course, this is further enhanced by finding the players shortcoming a lack of ability, not injury.

Interesting how the same people that can find a quote from two years ago, forget this kid was a walk-on that earned a scholarship with his high level of play. I watched cement a victory, if not win a game against Southern Cal.

 

[irishff1014]

Who cares now about last year? Joe is gone BVG is still here. Year 3 it's time out up or shut up. I still have my imo but arguing over last year when it's done and over instead of looking forward to 16 season is kinda pointless.

 

[gkIrish]

Wow........... your desperation vis-à-vis Brian Kelly has reached new heights. Pulling a quote from April of 2014 to try to tie Kelly directly to the decision to keep Schmidt on the field in 2015 despite his limitations?

However, it does directly refute my statement, so I will clarify my earlier statement about no coach saying that it was Joe Schmidt's ability to line people that kept him on the field, to include the qualifier of "in 2015".

You are the king of hyberbole (I.e you have NEVER said anything defending Joe Schmit's play or whatever nonsense you said a week or so ago) so if I find something factually incorrect with your statements I'm going to call you out on it every time.

If I was actually trying to say something negative about Brian Kelly I would not have pulled that quote because it actually supports Joe Schmidt starting. If it was true that no one else could line up the defense then Joe should be starting. All the quotes about Nyles Morgan learning and doing well in practice are what hurt BK. So fail again on your part there.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Who cares now about last year? Joe is gone BVG is still here. Year 3 it's time out up or shut up. I still have my imo but arguing over last year when it's done and over instead of looking forward to 16 season is kinda pointless.

Is it really pointless when you don't expect the end result to change?

I mean with this being a discussion board and all are we only supposed to talk about what is/isn't/may/may not happen? No such talk of what has happened?

 

[kmoose]

You are the king of hyberbole (I.e you have NEVER said anything defending Joe Schmit's play or whatever nonsense you said a week or so ago) so if I find something factually incorrect with your statements I'm going to call you out on it every time.

Maybe you're just the king of reading not what is said, but what you want to hear instead, sport?

 

[irishff1014]

Is it really pointless when you don't expect the end result to change?

I mean with this being a discussion board and all are we only supposed to talk about what is/isn't/may/may not happen? No such talk of what has happened?

You make a good point.

Year 2 is down. Year he has to do better or leave that's the only option available. So I would rather keep looking forward. We know the past we don't know the future.

 

[gkIrish]

Maybe you're just the king of reading not what is said, but what you want to hear instead, sport?

No coach has ever, to my knowledge, said that Schmidt was in there because he was the only one who could get everyone lined up right. I think some sportscasters alluded to that, and fans on the internet just jumped on it and suddenly it became "a fact" simply because so many people were repeating it.

YOU insinuated that message board posters made up things Brian Kelly said so I corrected you. "Ever" doesn't mean 2015. Regardless, I'm actually pretty sure there are quotes from the 2015 season I will be able to find when I have more time. Stay tuned.

 

[woolybug25]

Maybe you're just the king of reading not what is said, but what you want to hear instead, sport?

lame-o

 

[gkIrish]

Maybe you're just the king of reading not what is said, but what you want to hear instead, sport?

Here you go chief: DECEMBER 2015

Joe Schmidt. Runs our defense. He's the quarterback of our defense. Nyles would acknowledge he can't do right now from that standpoint what Joe can do.

-Brian Van Gorder

 

[woolybug25]

Maybe you're just the king of reading not what is said, but what you want to hear instead, sport?

Here you go chief: DECEMBER 2015



-Brian Van Gorder

 

[kmoose]

Here you go chief: DECEMBER 2015

Joe Schmidt. Runs our defense. He's the quarterback of our defense. Nyles would acknowledge he can't do right now from that standpoint what Joe can do.

-Brian Van Gorder

So Van Gorder said that Schmidt quarterbacks the defense and that his backup can't do that. So where does VanGorder say that not one of the other 30+ guys on defense can do it, either?

Keep looking, turbo.

For the record, the quote was "no coach ever said it, to my knowledge...." I'm now aware that Kelly said it in the Spring of 2014, before the season even started. Something I acknowledged as soon as you pointed it out.

 

[ulukinatme]

KMoose vs. gkIrish for "Feud of 2016?"

 

[gkIrish]

So Van Gorder said that Schmidt quarterbacks the defense and that his backup can't do that. So where does VanGorder say that not one of the other 30+ guys on defense can do it, either?

Keep looking, turbo.

For the record, the quote was "no coach ever said it, to my knowledge...." I'm now aware that Kelly said it in the Spring of 2014, before the season even started. Something I acknowledged as soon as you pointed it out.

Hmmm well if X player is responsible for lining up the defense, Y (the backup) presumably takes over X's duties if X gets hurt. That's why Y is the backup. So if Y can't do it, then nobody can.

I'll let the quotes speak for themselves. I don't even know what we are debating but all I know is that you said something incorrect and when challenged you got pissy. *To my knowledge* you don't have knowledge. Have a good day, chum.

 

[gkIrish]

KMoose vs. gkIrish for "Feud of 2016?"

kmoose = Sonny Liston

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[kmoose]

Hmmm well if X player is responsible for lining up the defense, Y (the backup) presumably takes over X's duties if X gets hurt. That's why Y is the backup. So if Y can't do it, then nobody can.

I'll let the quotes speak for themselves. I don't even know what we are debating but all I know is that you said something incorrect and when challenged you got pissy. *To my knowledge* you don't have knowledge. Have a good day, chum.

*chuckles* You don't know what we're debating, but I don't have knowledge? Still butthurt over me taking you to the woodshed in the BK Revisited" thread, I see. Let it go, man.

As it was previously pointed out............ anyone on the back end of the defense (that's Linebackers and Defensive Backs, just so you know) could take charge of making the defensive calls and making sure people are lined up right. So if Jaylon Smith, or one of the DBs could do it, then they would have no reason to keep Schmidt on the field over a more talented backup. THAT was the observation that I was referring to, when I said that, to my knowledge, no coach had ever said that Schmidt was the only one on the defense that could get everyone lined up. I thought it was a given that we were talking about 2015, since no one was complaining about Schmidt playing in 2014. And you haven't shown me anything to the contrary, other than VanGorder's comments about Schmidt being able to do what ONE other defensive player could not. But you think that means that no one else could, either. But, then again......... you think that we should "revisit" a coach before his first loss of the season.

 

[gkIrish]

*chuckles* You don't know what we're debating, but I don't have knowledge? Still butthurt over me taking you to the woodshed in the BK Revisited" thread, I see. Let it go, man.

As it was previously pointed out............ anyone on the back end of the defense (that's Linebackers and Defensive Backs, just so you know) could take charge of making the defensive calls and making sure people are lined up right. So if Jaylon Smith, or one of the DBs could do it, then they would have no reason to keep Schmidt on the field over a more talented backup. THAT was the observation that I was referring to, when I said that, to my knowledge, no coach had ever said that Schmidt was the only one on the defense that could get everyone lined up. I thought it was a given that we were talking about 2015, since no one was complaining about Schmidt playing in 2014. And you haven't shown me anything to the contrary, other than VanGorder's comments about Schmidt being able to do what ONE other defensive player could not. But you think that means that no one else could, either. But, then again......... you think that we should "revisit" a coach before his first loss of the season.

We didn't lose to Virginia. Are you capable of getting your facts straight?

 

[kmoose]

We didn't lose to Virginia. Are you capable of getting your facts straight?

I'm going to let you go back and reread that, before I comment on it.

 

[gkIrish]

We didn't lose to Virginia. Are you capable of getting your facts straight?

I'm going to let you go back and reread that, before I comment on it.

Dang! Got me....Just assumed you were wrong about something in that mess of a post.

 

[kmoose]

Dang! Got me....Just assumed you were wrong about something in that mess of a post.

You're passionate about your ideals. I'm passionate about mine. I just get tired of people acting like our coaches and players are fucking morons/busts, and that anyone who doesn't "see" it is just a blind homer.

 

[gkIrish]

You're passionate about your ideals. I'm passionate about mine. I just get tired of people acting like our coaches and players are fucking morons/busts, and that anyone who doesn't "see" it is just a blind homer.

JOE SCHMIDT was a bust last year. Not ALL our players. I don't think I said a bad word about any other player last year.

BRIAN VAN GORDER sucks. Not all of our coaches suck. I don't think I've said a bad word about any coaches other than BVG and BK (and BK doesn't "suck").

The issue is that you take a slight against ANYONE associated with the program as some heinous crime that you feel obligated to defend against. As soon as you stop doing that, for the sake of doing it, you will be a better poster IMO.

 

[kmoose]

JOE SCHMIDT was a bust last year. Not ALL our players. I don't think I said a bad word about any other player last year.

BRIAN VAN GORDER sucks. Not all of our coaches suck. I don't think I've said a bad word about any coaches other than BVG and BK (and BK doesn't "suck").

The issue is that you take a slight against ANYONE associated with the program as some heinous crime that you feel obligated to defend against. As soon as you stop doing that, for the sake of doing it, you will be a better poster IMO.

With all due respect, I'm not concerned about what you think of me as a poster. I have been on this board for a LONG time. I've never been banned(really only came close once that I know of), and I have rarely gone more than a week or two without receiving a positive rep for one or more of my posts. I've contributed a lot to this board in the decade plus that I have been here. I'm not perfect. I'm very capable of being wrong. I try to admit it when I am. And I try to offer olive branches when things have perhaps gotten too passionate. But I offered you an olive branch; I allowed that we both hold our views with the same passion. I explained that my stubbornness comes from being tired of hearing people bang on coaches and players. And I never said that you did, in this thread. And what did I get back? A critique of my posting(s). Maybe you should focus on your own posting(s) for a while, and not worry about mine.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

With all due respect, I'm not concerned about what you think of me as a poster. I have been on this board for a LONG time. I've never been banned(really only came close once that I know of), and I have rarely gone more than a week or two without receiving a positive rep for one or more of my posts. I've contributed a lot to this board in the decade plus that I have been here. I'm not perfect. I'm very capable of being wrong. I try to admit it when I am. And I try to offer olive branches when things have perhaps gotten too passionate. But I offered you an olive branch; I allowed that we both hold our views with the same passion. I explained that my stubbornness comes from being tired of hearing people bang on coaches and players. And I never said that you did, in this thread. And what did I get back? A critique of my posting(s). Maybe you should focus on your own posting(s) for a while, and not worry about mine.

Dude BVG sucks, get over it lol

 

[phgreek]

The thing is........ no coach has ever, to my knowledge, said that Schmidt was in there because he was the only one who could get everyone lined up right. I think some sportscasters alluded to that, and fans on the internet just jumped on it and suddenly it became "a fact" simply because so many people were repeating it.

If you listened to the postgame show each week on und.com, Reggie Brooks talked about this toward the end of the season. Reggie was plenty critical of Joe Schmidt all year, and is by no means a "company man". According to Reggie, who actually watched most practices over the course of the season; Schmidt's strength was that he was always where he was supposed to be on the field. He might not have been athletic enough to make the play, but he was in the spot he was supposed to be. The guys behind him apparently had issues "doing their job". They were more often than not OUT of position, because they were trying to be heroes and make all of the plays. So I think the coaches said, "We'd rather have a disciplined guy who struggles physically, and know that his mere presence in "x" area of the field takes certain things away from the offense, than to have a more athletic, undisciplined guy out there who is constantly out of position and leaving huge gaps for the offense to exploit."?

So this is where all of that with GK came from...I just noticed.

I was going off stuff I've read that I think was attributed to coaches...maybe not. I could have been snookered by the echo effect. Have you seen where others were doing the job? I saw some mention of Jaylon in camp, but then it went back to Joe. So in Joe's absence who was doing the QB of the defense gig...anyone (coaches) identify who that was, and how well they were doing it?

Ok...Reggie says no one else is in the right position after the snap. So Joe Soldiered on...I feel bad for him. But I still have concerns over the complexity of the D...for instance in this conversation alone...I'm hearing that a kid presumably having been a linebacker his entire life is always out of position...a kid who had five games as a starter in '14. I don't doubt he has issues to clean up, but honestly...what is ND trying to do where its that rough for a 4 star kid to come in and acclimate, and become functional. We can dismiss him as hero seeker...but ND had people out of position (apparently) at times all over the field, so its not just this kid or the linebacker position. I for one am hoping to see a sign that this defense isn't too complex. Hoping Year 3 produces a defense that is consistent...which means two deep, all functional....because God knows they'll get hurt...a lot.

BTW...I think after KVR gets drafted...he'll start fast talking, and we'll get some more insight here...

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

If the d is too complex---change the flipping d! Or recruit different players.

I am not impressed with him at all. I think he fine, not great.

Gotta hold your breathe every time the d is put under pressure.

It is what it is, we are stuck with him.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

ok...it seemed like I wasn't getting my point across...I agree, there is some on BK too. I really hope they show up in Texas with this stuff worked out. BVG can't do a 3rd year of the Highlander QB of the defense...there can be only one.

BVG can't do a 3rd year of the Highlander QB of the defense...there can be only one.

I just got it! No wonder we have such similar thoughts, with a fierce independent streak; we are each just as twisted as the other! Who is (are) the Highlander(s)?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EblIMC4v7xo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Wingman Ray]

If the d is too complex---change the flipping d! Or recruit different players.

.

Well for what is was worth, OC of other teams with a LOT less talent do not seem to have a problem dissecting and rolling over that "too complicated" defense of BVG.

ND has the talent. How about shelving the ego and the defense that clearly doesnt work and going with one that does?

Or losing to teams like Northwestern is okay then?