Brian Kelly to LSU, per report

[ND88]

I told myself not to respond to the message but here we are.

1.) Kelly is only the winningest coach because he coached the most games of any ND coach, he also has that most losses. So he is simultaneously the loosingest coach in ND history.

2.) F**k powers and the rankings, Carr is a 5 star and so is Cam Williams. Why do the rankings from a bunch of jabronis matter, all that matters is their actual skills and they are 5 star talent and the staff landed them.

3.) Kelly did not give Freeman a top five program. He gave him a program with a shit ton of major holes in it. QB and WR room was horrendous, hard to win games with major holes in those two groups.

I was being facetious by mirroring what typical detractors lean on to criticize the program. However, I did not italicize, so I can see how posters might take it literally as my perspective. It’s far from my perspective.

 

[Chicago Domer]

I told myself not to respond to the message but here we are.

1.) Kelly is only the winningest coach because he coached the most games of any ND coach, he also has that most losses. So he is simultaneously the loosingest coach in ND history.

2.) F**k powers and the rankings, Carr is a 5 star and so is Cam Williams. Why do the rankings from a bunch of jabronis matter, all that matters is their actual skills and they are 5 star talent and the staff landed them.

3.) Kelly did not give Freeman a top five program. He gave him a program with a shit ton of major holes in it. QB and WR room was horrendous, hard to win games with major holes in those two groups.

But Kelly doesn’t lose to Marshall or Stanford.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Kelly is the winningest coach of all time at Notre Dame. He turned LSU around in one season with its stringent recruiting requirements and lack of reputation as an elite program. Look at the lack of five stars at ND. Freeman has to figure this NIL thing out. Charles Power doesn’t have Carr as a 5 star so he isn’t a consensus 5 star. ND won’t recruit well until it hires better coaches. Shopping down a better aisle? Kelly had a bad OC who couldn’t coach his QBs up. Freeman took a top 5 program that Kelly built up and lost to Marshall and Stanford. Freeman should have gotten a qb in the portal last year. Freeman is a newb coach. Go Irish.

Good summary ND! But this is a nice pickup.

 

[arrowryan]

But Kelly doesn’t lose to Marshall or Stanford.

You're right. He loses to Tulsa and South Florida.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

You're right. He loses to Tulsa and South Florida.

Beat me by 11 minutes.

 

[KPENN]

You're right. He loses to Tulsa and South Florida.

Duke

 

[arrowryan]

Duke

I can't forget about the 18 point ass beating from Navy either.

 

[ThePiombino]

But Kelly doesn’t lose to Marshall or Stanford.

He didn't play Marshall and he lost to Stanford more often than he beat them. He's also lost to Navy multiple times, been blown out by SC, lost to Northwestern, Tulsa , South Florida, Duke, etc.

 

[stlnd01]

He didn't play Marshall and he lost to Stanford more often than he beat them. He's also lost to Navy multiple times, been blown out by SC, lost to Northwestern, Tulsa , South Florida, Duke, etc.

To be fair, BK's career record against USC was 8-3. That's pretty good.

Why does every thread have to devolve into this silly argument?

 

[ThePiombino]

To be fair, BK's career record against USC was 8-3. That's pretty good.

Why does every thread have to devolve into this silly argument?

My point is simply that Freeman isn't the only ND coach in recent history with a bad loss or two.

 

[stlnd01]

My point is simply that Freeman isn't the only ND coach in recent history with a bad loss or two.

Of course he isn't. And most likely he'll have more. Just hope the good wins outnumber them.

Just feels like one can't open a thread right now without the same four people yelling that BK wouldn't have lost to Stanford and why didn't we have a better backup QB last year and LSU blah blah blah and personally I can't wait to move the fuck on.

 

[benneboy]

But Kelly doesn’t lose to Marshall or Stanford.

He was 4-6 against Stanford but don't let that fact get in the way of an already flimsy argument.

 

[Irish4life]

But Kelly doesn’t lose to Marshall or Stanford.

Somebody has clearly forgotten the first 7 years of BK

 

[luckofirish8]

But Kelly doesn’t lose to Marshall or Stanford.

In BK's first two years at ND, he lost to Navy, Tulsa, and South Florida. He had a much worse roster than this past year, but bags more experience as a head coach than MF.

Shit happens, but let's no act like Kelly didn't have some very poor L's early in his ND tenure as well.

 

[Reaper97]

In BK's first two years at ND, he lost to Navy, Tulsa, and South Florida. He had a much worse roster than this past year, but bags more experience as a head coach than MF.

Shit happens, but let's no act like Kelly didn't have some very poor L's early in his ND tenure as well.

Tulsa was a 10 win, ranked team.
Navy was ranked back then.
And as you said, ND was a dumpster fire when BK took over.
ND was top 5 when Freeman took over.
Can’t really compare the situations.

 

[tko]

Clean up in aisle 7 please. Isn’t this a thread about KVA? I think Brian Kelly has multiple threads. Let’s go.

 

[luckofirish8]

Tulsa was a 10 win, ranked team.
Navy was ranked back then.
And as you said, ND was a dumpster fire when BK took over.
ND was top 5 when Freeman took over.
Can’t really compare the situations.

None of those teams were ranked at the time ND played them.

Was ND a dumpster fire, sure, that we can agree on.

 

[fightingirish26]

Tulsa was a 10 win, ranked team.
Navy was ranked back then.
And as you said, ND was a dumpster fire when BK took over.
ND was top 5 when Freeman took over.
Can’t really compare the situations.

Marshall had 9 wins

 

[IrishLion]

Tulsa was a 10 win, ranked team.
Navy was ranked back then.
And as you said, ND was a dumpster fire when BK took over.
ND was top 5 when Freeman took over.
Can’t really compare the situations.

2016 happened, as well... and that was after BK got his foundation for a top-10 team in place.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Duke

Northwestern & Louisville too

 

[greyhammer90]

We were also a whisker away from losing to Toledo at home during Kelly's last season. That game basically mirrors Marshall except that Coan came through in the end.

Just because you wind up winning doesn't mean you didn't deserve to lose from a coaching perspective.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Tulsa was a 10 win, ranked team.
Navy was ranked back then.
And as you said, ND was a dumpster fire when BK took over.
ND was top 5 when Freeman took over.
Can’t really compare the situations.

You’re not comparing situations. If you were, you would added that BK has been a HC since 1991. Freeman has been a HC since 2022.

 

[Reaper97]

You’re not comparing situations. If you were, you would added that BK has been a HC since 1991. Freeman has been a HC since 2022.

I also didn’t add the undefeated BK seasons either.
I was comparing each their first season at ND.

 

[Reaper97]

We were also a whisker away from losing to Toledo at home during Kelly's last season. That game basically mirrors Marshall except that Coan came through in the end.

Just because you wind up winning doesn't mean you didn't deserve to lose from a coaching perspective.

Or you were calm, and found a way to win.

 

[NDPhilly]

Kelly never has an SP+ top 5 team. Not once. He won the games he was supposed to between ‘17-‘21 which was enough to get to the playoffs. We had relatively easy schedules each of those years in that we rarely had to play an elite team that showed the flaws in the roster prior to the CFP.

Kids like KVA, Lambert, CJ Carr, Cam, etc… are the guys we need to land every year. There are only a few top 100 recruits each cycle that are ND fits like them. You can spend a ton of time trying to get a Peyton Bowen type to buy-in, but hitting on most of the ND fits is a much better strategy IMO.

 

[NDMatt91]

I think there was more talent on the roster when Kelly took over in 2010 than the 2022 roster, particularly on offense.

2010 Offense: Armando Allen, Robert Hughes, Jonas Gray, Cierre Wood, Michael Floyd, Theo Riddick, T.J. Jones (committed to Weis), Kyle Rudolph, Tyler Eifert, Zack Martin, Chris Watt, Trevor Robinson, Braxston Cave

All of them played in the NFL except Cave, and Cave was a nice player.

 

[Reaper97]

2016 happened, as well... and that was after BK got his foundation for a top-10 team in place.

And 2012, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 all happened too.

 

[Reaper97]

Kelly never has an SP+ top 5 team. Not once. He won the games he was supposed to between ‘17-‘21 which was enough to get to the playoffs. We had relatively easy schedules each of those years in that we rarely had to play an elite team that showed the flaws in the roster prior to the CFP.

Kids like KVA, Lambert, CJ Carr, Cam, etc… are the guys we need to land every year. There are only a few top 100 recruits each cycle that are ND fits like them. You can spend a ton of time trying to get a Peyton Bowen type to buy-in, but hitting on most of the ND fits is a much better strategy IMO.

You lost me at SP+

Dumbest metric out there.
After LSU destroyed teams in 2019, try SP+ still had those teams above LSU & that tool who runs it said those teams would win if they played again according to his SP+

OSU finished 1st, AFTER losing to Clemson in the semifinal, above both Clemson & LSU.
SP+ is garbage. So is Bill Connelly.

 

[IrishLion]

And 2012, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 all happened too.

Right, but the debate is first-year losses, and then there were a bunch of excuses for BK's first year, which included "inherited a dumpster fire from Weis."

There was ALSO a year where BK had more than just Marshall and Stanford-style losses, and it was NOT a year where he inherited a dumpster fire. It was a year of his own making. 4-8 against the '16 schedule, with Kizer at QB, was more embarrassing than Marshall or Stanford '22 will ever be.

It's just lame to see the constant "but Stanford and Marshall!" whenever we're discussing Freeman, for any reason, particularly when the argument doesn't hold water when you look at BK's low points.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I also didn’t add the undefeated BK seasons either.
I was comparing each their first season at ND.

Right but comparing BK to MF is not apples to apples. BK chose to start his HC career at Grand Valley State & got the ND job almost 20 years later. MF chose to start his HC career at Notre Dame & is about to start his 2nd season. I don’t blame either for their route to get to the big time regardless of circumstances.

To expect Freeman to have had a flawless first season as a HC regardless of what he inherited seems too Pollyannish to me. Freeman admitted the losses to Stanford & Marshall were on him. ND chose him so they knew what they were getting.