Brian Kelly to LSU, per report

Crazy Balki

Site Assigned Optimist
Messages
4,829
Reaction score
654
I agree, he often stocked the ND staff with friends instead of the best assistants he could get, and then stuck with them even when they weren't getting the job done. As for not wanting assistants that draw attention or who are destined for bigger & better, that's just plain stupid. Bryant once said, when asked about whether it bothered him to have assistants who were smarter than him, that if they weren't smarter than him he didn't need them. Kelly needs to put his ego aside and hire more fire-breathing, smart, ambitious, future HC's for his staff.

That shitshow last night was embarrassing. Totally unprepared team across the board, especially the special teams. Last night screamed mediocre assistants who didn't have their players ready. If your assistants aren't doing their job, it's on the HC for hiring them, not demanding better, and for letting them stay on your staff when they aren't doing their job well enough.
I'm with you for the most part.

But I look at some of Kelly's hires over the years at ND:

Charley Molnar (OC for 2010 // Left to be head coach)
Bob Diaco (DC from 2010-13 // Left to be head coach)
Chuck Martin (OC from 2011-13 // Left to be head coach)
Matt LaFleur (QB coach in 2014 // Currently head coach of the Packers)
Mike Sanford (OC from 2015-16 // Left to be head coach)
Mike Elko (DC for 2017 // Currently head coach at Duke)
Clark Lea (DC from 2018-20 // Left to be head coach)
Marcus Freeman (DC for 2021 // Currently head coach at ND)

8 of Kelly's former assistants either left ND to become a head coach or are currently sitting in a HC capacity.

I think Kelly showed capability to hire those young, smart and ambitious coaches to his staff, but his hit rate wasn't good.

It wasn't just a crony-thing either. There were bad/underwhelming crony hires like BVG and Jeff Quinn. But there was also bad hires that Kelly wasn't connected to prior like Chip Long and Del Alexander. Todd Light and Autry Denson were also not cronies, but neither worked out.

The problem was that for every homerun hire Kelly made, he had a dud or two along with them. That leads to an imbalanced staff.
 

Irishdrunk

Smartest Guy in the Room
Messages
440
Reaction score
86
Interesting the analysts like Finebaum are ripping Kelly for not going for 2 points at the end. I think had he gone for 2 and gotten stuffed he would have been excoriated for not taking the "sure point". Losing creates endless second guessing.
 

IrishSteelhead

All Flair, No Substance
Messages
9,727
Reaction score
1,317
Interesting the analysts like Finebaum are ripping Kelly for not going for 2 points at the end. I think had he gone for 2 and gotten stuffed he would have been excoriated for not taking the "sure point". Losing creates endless second guessing.

BK is a lightning rod for criticism because he’s an unlikable person, generally speaking.

Saban and Meyer are also generally unlikable, but are winners, and winning is king.

We have already seen him under a microscope even when it was unwarranted numerous times. He doesn’t do himself many favors though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Irish du Nord

Well-known member
Messages
791
Reaction score
262
I'm with you for the most part.

But I look at some of Kelly's hires over the years at ND:

Charley Molnar (OC for 2010 // Left to be head coach)
Bob Diaco (DC from 2010-13 // Left to be head coach)
Chuck Martin (OC from 2011-13 // Left to be head coach)
Matt LaFleur (QB coach in 2014 // Currently head coach of the Packers)
Mike Sanford (OC from 2015-16 // Left to be head coach)
Mike Elko (DC for 2017 // Currently head coach at Duke)
Clark Lea (DC from 2018-20 // Left to be head coach)
Marcus Freeman (DC for 2021 // Currently head coach at ND)

8 of Kelly's former assistants either left ND to become a head coach or are currently sitting in a HC capacity.

I think Kelly showed capability to hire those young, smart and ambitious coaches to his staff, but his hit rate wasn't good.

It wasn't just a crony-thing either. There were bad/underwhelming crony hires like BVG and Jeff Quinn. But there was also bad hires that Kelly wasn't connected to prior like Chip Long and Del Alexander. Todd Light and Autry Denson were also not cronies, but neither worked out.

The problem was that for every homerun hire Kelly made, he had a dud or two along with them. That leads to an imbalanced staff.
I’d contend both Lyght and Denson had pretty good ND stints
 

Crazy Balki

Site Assigned Optimist
Messages
4,829
Reaction score
654
I’d contend both Lyght and Denson had pretty good ND stints
Meh.

I thought they were solid positional coaches, but they both were clearly lacking when it came to recruiting impacts.

We saw a noticeable uptick in recruiting at RB once Taylor replaced Denson. Mickens to an extent as well, but obviously having Freeman leading defensive recruiting in '21 helped immensely for him too.
 

phillyirish

................
Messages
1,662
Reaction score
513
Kelly had a lot of wins at ND bc he never played anyone good. Rarely if ever did he beat a team that out recruited him. The measure of good coaching is beating teams that recruit better or simply out recruiting everyone. Freeman appeared to have pushed the needle in coaching performance Saturday night. We already know how he recruits. That seems like a good combo. Let’s see how he does with a cupcake like Marshall. We know how BK did with bad team like Toledo.
Not really sure how Saturday against OSU was any different then all the big time regular season matchups under Kelly: FSU, Clemson in the Rain, Georgia both years. Look competitive but ultimately lost. “Moral Victory”.
 

Te'o4Heisman

Well-known member
Messages
1,322
Reaction score
456
Not really sure how Saturday against OSU was any different then all the big time regular season matchups under Kelly: FSU, Clemson in the Rain, Georgia both years. Look competitive but ultimately lost. “Moral Victory”.
I would say that the positive takeaway is that a guy coaching really his first college football game, in an incredibly difficult situation had his team prepared and the moment was not too big, whereas those other games under BK were a coach with 30+ years of experience. Freeman is just scratching the surface of what he can and will become as a coach.
 
Last edited:

du Lac

CEO of IE
Messages
1,648
Reaction score
1,072
I would say that the positive takeaway is that a guy coaching really his first college football game, in an incredibly difficult situation had his team prepared and the moment was not too big, whereas those other games under BK were a coach with 30+ years of experience. Freeman is just scratching the surface if what he can and will become as a coach.

He outperformed expectations.
 

Crazy Balki

Site Assigned Optimist
Messages
4,829
Reaction score
654
Not really sure how Saturday against OSU was any different then all the big time regular season matchups under Kelly: FSU, Clemson in the Rain, Georgia both years. Look competitive but ultimately lost. “Moral Victory”.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see how Ohio State's offense fairs the rest of the way, but the way I see it:

- Florida State in 2014 had several similarly close games against average opponents. The Noles that year had 7 of their 13 wins come within 1 score. Those wins included 7-6 Oklahoma State, 7-6 Boston College, 6-7 Miami and 7-5 Florida. They also had to overcome a 7-24 deficit against 8-5 NC State. They also trailed very late in the game against 9-4 Louisville.

- Clemson, while obviously a championship caliber team that year, ND came out flatter than lukewarm beer and the offense sputtered for 3 quarters. Clemson also had some close calls against lesser teams. They were tied with FSU going into the final quarter. They barely edged out 3-9 South Carolina by 5 points. 8-5 Louisville was within a field goal of Clemson. 4-8 Syracuse was with Clemson going into the 4th quarter.

- Georgia in 2019, 2 weeks after edging ND out, they lost to 4-8 South Carolina at home. While that Georgia defense was really good, their offense was really mediocre. After Tennessee, the Dawgs failed to score more than 27 points in 6 straight games.

Having competitive losses against those teams wasn't exactly out of the ordinary, since they had a few of them and all of them were flawed teams.
 

IrishSteelhead

All Flair, No Substance
Messages
9,727
Reaction score
1,317
I suppose we'll have to wait and see how Ohio State's offense fairs the rest of the way, but the way I see it:

- Florida State in 2014 had several similarly close games against average opponents. The Noles that year had 7 of their 13 wins come within 1 score. Those wins included 7-6 Oklahoma State, 7-6 Boston College, 6-7 Miami and 7-5 Florida. They also had to overcome a 7-24 deficit against 8-5 NC State. They also trailed very late in the game against 9-4 Louisville.

- Clemson, while obviously a championship caliber team that year, ND came out flatter than lukewarm beer and the offense sputtered for 3 quarters. Clemson also had some close calls against lesser teams. They were tied with FSU going into the final quarter. They barely edged out 3-9 South Carolina by 5 points. 8-5 Louisville was within a field goal of Clemson. 4-8 Syracuse was with Clemson going into the 4th quarter.

- Georgia in 2019, 2 weeks after edging ND out, they lost to 4-8 South Carolina at home. While that Georgia defense was really good, their offense was really mediocre. After Tennessee, the Dawgs failed to score more than 27 points in 6 straight games.

Having competitive losses against those teams wasn't exactly out of the ordinary, since they had a few of them and all of them were flawed teams.

You put the work in. Well done. To further your point:

2014: FSU -11.5
2015: Clemson -3
2018: ND -3.5
2019: Georgia -11.5

Two of the games mentioned weren’t even in the same stratosphere Saturdays game was (OSU -16.5), and ND was actually favored against UGA in 2018.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

IrishSpartan

Active member
Messages
611
Reaction score
73
I’d contend both Lyght and Denson had pretty good ND stints
I'm with you for the most part.

But I look at some of Kelly's hires over the years at ND:

Charley Molnar (OC for 2010 // Left to be head coach)
Bob Diaco (DC from 2010-13 // Left to be head coach)
Chuck Martin (OC from 2011-13 // Left to be head coach)
Matt LaFleur (QB coach in 2014 // Currently head coach of the Packers)
Mike Sanford (OC from 2015-16 // Left to be head coach)
Mike Elko (DC for 2017 // Currently head coach at Duke)
Clark Lea (DC from 2018-20 // Left to be head coach)
Marcus Freeman (DC for 2021 // Currently head coach at ND)

8 of Kelly's former assistants either left ND to become a head coach or are currently sitting in a HC capacity.

I think Kelly showed capability to hire those young, smart and ambitious coaches to his staff, but his hit rate wasn't good.

It wasn't just a crony-thing either. There were bad/underwhelming crony hires like BVG and Jeff Quinn. But there was also bad hires that Kelly wasn't connected to prior like Chip Long and Del Alexander. Todd Light and Autry Denson were also not cronies, but neither worked out.

The problem was that for every homerun hire Kelly made, he had a dud or two along with them. That leads to an imbalanced staff.
Mike Sanford… Destroyer of Quarterbacks
 

stlnd01

Was away. Now returned.
Messages
7,495
Reaction score
1,184
I guess Frank Wilson is something of a legendary recruiter but looking at Kelly's LSU staff, it's pretty underwhelming, especially considering the resources they have. A couple of assistants have done stints at elite programs but mostly it's a weird mix of deep Louisiana guys and Friends of BK.
He's missing that really smart, dynamic DC he eventually realized he needed at Notre Dame.
 

FDNYIrish1

’ll be at the Irsay YMCA from 12:30-2:30
Messages
1,094
Reaction score
425
I’m going to enjoy his failures while I can, but let’s be honest here. As much as I hate baloney tits BK, the man can coach football. He may not win that NC, but two horrific coaches have won championships at LSU in the recent past. My hope is he gets just good enough to suffer painful defeats on the regular. Ya know, kind of like he did here.
 

KPENN

Tip your vBookie
Staff member
Messages
9,932
Reaction score
1,168
Interesting the analysts like Finebaum are ripping Kelly for not going for 2 points at the end. I think had he gone for 2 and gotten stuffed he would have been excoriated for not taking the "sure point". Losing creates endless second guessing.
They are the favorite playing basically a home game, there’s no way you go for 2 there. BK would be getting absolutely shredded if he went for 2 and didn’t get it.
 

ND88

Well-known member
Messages
2,143
Reaction score
991
Even with this ridiculous loss to FSU, Kelly represents “proof” for those arguing that winning big games and championships at Notre Dame can‘t be done. The loss to OSU is not a moral victory in any way, shape, or form, because it fed the impression that has had the bite on ND for 30 plus years. We don’t beat elite teams.

So many of these talking heads continue to go on and on about Kelly being a great, top-tier coach. He might of walked away the winningest coach at ND, but his career is an empty shell. Hell, he’d probably be the first to speak that truth if his bathroom mirror wasn’t imported from Russia.

What does it say about our program that he’s the guy who brought us back to a modicum of respect? His leaving without ever having won a title is an indictment of our program (whether fair or not), and the perception won’t be shook unless Freeman can shake it off and shake it soon.

We can’t wait two years to do it, plain and simple. We have to run the table or he will have to dump some coaches at the end of this season and amp up his aggression in recruiting and transfers. I just don’t think anything less than an 11-1 season is acceptable, because the distance is only going to continue to get greater between us and the elite teams. There is very little space for him to treat this season at ND as a learning curve. Consistent aggression, quick adjustment (including playing underclassmen), and dropping the excuses (“we gotta coach better” bullshit) must be Freeman’s guide if he wants to shake the specter of Kelly’s business-RKG 10-2 illusion. I don’t envy him, but he signed up for it.

For now, Kelly still has the last laugh. Freeman’s voice has to be louder.
 

du Lac

CEO of IE
Messages
1,648
Reaction score
1,072
Even with this ridiculous loss to FSU, Kelly represents “proof” for those arguing that winning big games and championships at Notre Dame can‘t be done. The loss to OSU is not a moral victory in any way, shape, or form, because it fed the impression that has had the bite on ND for 30 plus years. We don’t beat elite teams.

So many of these talking heads continue to go on and on about Kelly being a great, top-tier coach. He might of walked away the winningest coach at ND, but his career is an empty shell. Hell, he’d probably be the first to speak that truth if his bathroom mirror wasn’t imported from Russia.

What does it say about our program that he’s the guy who brought us back to a modicum of respect? His leaving without ever having won a title is an indictment of our program (whether fair or not), and the perception won’t be shook unless Freeman can shake it off and shake it soon.

We can’t wait two years to do it, plain and simple. We have to run the table or he will have to dump some coaches at the end of this season and amp up his aggression in recruiting and transfers. I just don’t think anything less than an 11-1 season is acceptable, because the distance is only going to continue to get greater between us and the elite teams. There is very little space for him to treat this season at ND as a learning curve. Consistent aggression, quick adjustment (including playing underclassmen), and dropping the excuses (“we gotta coach better” bullshit) must be Freeman’s guide if he wants to shake the specter of Kelly’s business-RKG 10-2 illusion. I don’t envy him, but he signed up for it.

For now, Kelly still has the last laugh. Freeman’s voice has to be louder.

No. He’s inching closer already. Stop being ridiculous. I’ve never seen this team so competitive and disciplined in week 1. That Ohio State team is light years more talented. You have to recruit better. Period.
 

ND88

Well-known member
Messages
2,143
Reaction score
991
I stand by what I said. Freeman has to outperform this season to continue momentum and swing this program into absolute legitimacy. Never once did I disparage him. I simply said there isn’t a moral victory in the loss to OSU. There are positives in the performance, but he has the burden of cleaning up the negatives quickly. He can’t sit on past habits like our former coach did.
 

ND88

Well-known member
Messages
2,143
Reaction score
991
Stop being a negative Nancy. You expected Freeman to win that game?
Reading comprehension is a skill that can be developed over time with practice. If that’s all you got from what I wrote, just hit that ignore button.
 

du Lac

CEO of IE
Messages
1,648
Reaction score
1,072
I stand by what I said. Freeman has to outperform this season to continue momentum and swing this program into absolute legitimacy. Never once did I disparage him. I simply said there isn’t a moral victory in the loss to OSU. There are positives in the performance, but he has the burden of cleaning up the negatives quickly. He can’t sit on past habits like our former coach did.

He’ll be up at 4:30am for his run and back to work.
 

du Lac

CEO of IE
Messages
1,648
Reaction score
1,072
Reading comprehension is a skill that can be developed over time with practice. If that’s all you got from what I wrote, just hit that ignore button.

Nobody wants to read your novels.
 

Irishdrunk

Smartest Guy in the Room
Messages
440
Reaction score
86
Unfortunately I don't think Kelly or Freeman will win a Natty. Kelly is lazy and not direct with recruits but he has the better conference, better location, better facilities. He now has the reputation for not winning big games which will further hinder landing elite recruits.

Freeman won't win a Natty because he will have a hard time getting many elite Offensive Playmakers without NIL. (I am not saying he won't get some like Carr...but many will want fat NIL deals). I just see this as a harsh reality. I hope I am wrong.
 

HouseofPain

Active member
Messages
143
Reaction score
120
Unfortunately I don't think Kelly or Freeman will win a Natty. Kelly is lazy and not direct with recruits but he has the better conference, better location, better facilities. He now has the reputation for not winning big games which will further hinder landing elite recruits.

Freeman won't win a Natty because he will have a hard time getting many elite Offensive Playmakers without NIL. (I am not saying he won't get some like Carr...but many will want fat NIL deals). I just see this as a harsh reality. I hope I am wrong.
Man the pipe dream of ND winning a NC has to end. Just not going to happen in our lifetimes. Times have changed and what is important to kids have changed. You have a school with mid to upper mid level facilities, an academic slate that isnt contusive to the vast majority of America's athletes and a university that holds zero bling.
I love ND for what it is but I think anyone believing ND doesnt get the 5 stars to win big because they dont pay enough money just hasnt been paying attention for the last thirty years.
 

tussin

Well-known member
Messages
3,743
Reaction score
762
Man the pipe dream of ND winning a NC has to end. Just not going to happen in our lifetimes. Times have changed and what is important to kids have changed. You have a school with mid to upper mid level facilities, an academic slate that isnt contusive to the vast majority of America's athletes and a university that holds zero bling.
I love ND for what it is but I think anyone believing ND doesnt get the 5 stars to win big because they dont pay enough money just hasnt been paying attention for the last thirty years.
Truly awful take.
 
Top