Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[gkIrish]

I'm not basing it off of one half of football. I'm basing it on the progress that I saw, with only 5 days to work with, from week 4 with BVG, to week 5 without BVG. And the comment about BK not going anywhere was in response to this:

You act like we can fire BK and bring in an elite coach and turn things around by the end of the season? How will firing BK make one iota of difference in how the defense plays the rest of the season?

When did I say we can turn this around if we fire Kelly and bring in someone else??? There is no turning around this mess in this season.

Oh, you don't respect my football knowledge? I has a sad now. Coming from the guy who posted THIS excrement, I'm not sure how I could care any less.

How is that excrement? Was I not right about Brian Kelly deserving to be criticized and evaluated? That's exactly what the point of the OP was and it was 100% right to question him because look where we are not.

No one knew, in that 8-4 year, that Tressel was going to go on the tear that he did. Just like we don't know what is in store for Kelly. I'm not saying that we should have to keep him for another 10 years to find out, but let's at least see what he does, defensively, the rest of the season, and see what kind of DC hire we can make?

He has done nothing to earn another "let's see what happens next year"

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 3 times, not 4. He went 8-5 in each of his first two years(2010, 2011), then he went 12-1 in 2012. He went 9-4 in 2013, 8-5 in 2014, and 10-3 in 2015. Regardless of what you think of my football acumen, I'm going to assume that you are impressed with my superior ability to count to 4?

When I said 8-4 what made you think I was referring to bowl games in any way? He went 8-4 or worse in the regular season 4 times and will do so again this year. At Notre Dame. In Year 7.

But I was the guy constantly defending Joe Schmidt starting all year over Nyles Morgan so what do I know. Oh wait, that was you.

 

[kmoose]

When did I say we can turn this around if we fire Kelly and bring in someone else??? There is no turning around this mess in this season.

My point was this:

In other words, the defense is going to be what it is, until the end of the season, no matter what. You aren't hiring a Coordinator or Head Coach in the middle of the season. So what we have is what we have. For the rest of the year. So talking about this now is nothing more than pi$$ing and moaning. And I think we've seen enough of that, already, in this not even half over season?

And with that, I am going to step away from it. You hate Kelly, you want him gone. I think that's a very shortsighted view, but I'm not far away from wanting to move in another direction, myself.

 

[gkIrish]

My point was this:






And with that, I am going to step away from it. You hate Kelly, you want him gone. I think that's a very shortsighted view, but I'm not far away from wanting to move in another direction, myself.

I don't "hate" Brian Kelly. I am grateful to him for turning the program around a bit and 2012 will always be one of the best years of my life.

 

[RDU Irish]

BK brought us back from hell. It makes no sense to hire a new DC if Kelly doesn't have at least one more year locked up to see this through, probably two.

 

[philipm31]

1) How is this post at all responsive? You said our defense looks like it could be competent the rest of the year and I say you are basing that on one half of football. Then you go off on how BK isn't going anywhere...What does that have to do with anything?

2) This is why I honestly don't respect your football knowledge. I have nothing against you personally and agree with a lot of what you say in non-football threads but dude, what are you even talking about with Jim Tressel? Are you trolling right now?

You don't fire a coach for ONE 8-4 season. Everyone knows that. Jim Tressel went

10-2
12-1
11-2
10-3
11-2
12-1

in the years after the 8-4 season. They went to a BCS bowl every single year. They went to the Natty twice. He won 3 BCS games.

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 4 times and will do so again this year. What are you even talking about?

My biggest concern is his record in games that matter. It is not good. And his 11 losses in September alone over 7 season means that ND is out of the Natty convo by the end of the first month 57% percent of the time.

That is not a record of consistency that I think Irish fans should be settling for anymore. As I think is obvious, Kelly has done a great job building this team and re-establishing ND on the national stage, but we are never ever winning a National Title with him at the helm.

That is just reality. Now, if ND is not even remotely interested in challenging for a national title but is interested in keeping people talking about ND every other year, then Kelly is your guy. If you want to take a step up into being a consistent national title contender, then Kelly is not the guy. This ain't GVSU.

 

[philipm31]

BK brought us back from hell. It makes no sense to hire a new DC if Kelly doesn't have at least one more year locked up to see this through, probably two.

No, hell was the years under Faust. At least ND had some ten win seasons in there with Ty and Charlie.

I would take that timeframe over the years before Lou.

 

[GowerND11]

No, hell was the years under Faust. At least ND had some ten win seasons in there with Ty and Charlie.

I would take that timeframe over the years before Lou.

Eh... From the Devine tenure to Holtz it was 4 years. From Holtz to Kelly it was 13 years. Sure there were some sprinkled in good seasons (05-06), but let's face it, it was a very low period in ND football.

 

[RDU Irish]

This season is VERY different from the fuster clucks Weis, Willingham and Davie put us through. Those 10 win seasons were paper tigers and it was more than obvious at the time. We have lost three games by a total of 14 points, defense may have gotten their butts kicked but the team did not.

2006 - 10-3 (lost by 26 to Michigan, 20 to USC and 27 to LSU - #19 Penn State was the only ranked team we beat)

2002 - 10-3 (lost 14-7 to Boston College, by 31 to USC and 22 to NC State) Granted we beat some decent teams that year - the wheels fell off the cart at the end of the end of the season because we were straight up pretenders in Ty's first (and only good) season with the Irish. Davie didn't leave much in the cupboard but damn it if Weis wouldn't have considered that an embarrassment of riches compared to what Ty left for him.

From 1997 thru 2009 we had SIX records of .500 or worse. 13 years and 6 of them were .500 or below - let that sink in for a while. 3-9 sucks a lot worse than 5-7 - Weis delivered that gem.

Granted Faust was .500 or worse in two of his five seasons but we are only talking about five years of sucking (really six if you count Lou's first year). I will also grant you that, at the time, Notre Dame had a tremendous built in national recruiting advantage that has diminished over the last two decades with the advent of live sports programming.

 

[phgreek]

No, hell was the years under Faust. At least ND had some ten win seasons in there with Ty and Charlie.

I would take that timeframe over the years before Lou.

lived through Faust...in PA amongst Rabid PSU fans who were having success back then...it was awful. That period was worse for me because I had to live it every day...ND played PSU like every year during that period...UGH.

My one highlight was 1984...ND boat raced 'em...I remeber I made my old man bring home like 5 Sunday Papers...covered all my books in a newspaper clipping that had a giant picture of Pinkett in full stride enroute to the end zone. Caused some fights...hehehe.

 

[ACamp1900]

lived through Faust...in PA amongst Rabid PSU fans who were having success back then...it was awful. That period was worse for me because I had to live it every day...ND played PSU like every year during that period...UGH.

My one highlight was 1984...ND boat raced 'em...I remeber I made my old man bring home like 5 Sunday Papers...covered all my books in a newspaper clipping that had a giant picture of Pinkett in full stride enroute to the end zone. Caused some fights...hehehe.

PSU during the Holtz era ruined me... we got the Snow Bowl, but man, they derailed a number of potential title teams...

 

[IrishBroker]

My biggest concern is his record in games that matter. It is not good. And his 11 losses in September alone over 7 season means that ND is out of the Natty convo by the end of the first month 57% percent of the time.

That is not a record of consistency that I think Irish fans should be settling for anymore. As I think is obvious, Kelly has done a great job building this team and re-establishing ND on the national stage, but we are never ever winning a National Title with him at the helm.

That is just reality. Now, if ND is not even remotely interested in challenging for a national title but is interested in keeping people talking about ND every other year, then Kelly is your guy. If you want to take a step up into being a consistent national title contender, then Kelly is not the guy. This ain't GVSU.

That's just one reason we won't. There are two others that are glaring, yet are not allowed to be discussed

 

[IrishBroker]

PSU during the Holtz era ruined me... we got the Snow Bowl, but man, they derailed a number of potential title teams...

Truly a even rivalry....9-9-1.

 

[ACamp1900]

Truly a even rivalry....9-9-1.

It may have even been .500 during Holtz with the Snow Bowl win... but they were a mountain back then and they def derailed at least a couple of title level ND teams... just off memory. I remember the feeling at the end of the Snow Bowl, it was more, "Thank goodness we finally got them," relief more than anything...

 

[phgreek]

PSU during the Holtz era ruined me... we got the Snow Bowl, but man, they derailed a number of potential title teams...

I hated PSU...always played like they had everything to lose against ND...dicks.

 

[ScooterIrish]

This season is VERY different from the fuster clucks Weis, Willingham and Davie put us through. Those 10 win seasons were paper tigers and it was more than obvious at the time. We have lost three games by a total of 14 points, defense may have gotten their butts kicked but the team did not.

2006 - 10-3 (lost by 26 to Michigan, 20 to USC and 27 to LSU - #19 Penn State was the only ranked team we beat)

2002 - 10-3 (lost 14-7 to Boston College, by 31 to USC and 22 to NC State) Granted we beat some decent teams that year - the wheels fell off the cart at the end of the end of the season because we were straight up pretenders in Ty's first (and only good) season with the Irish. Davie didn't leave much in the cupboard but damn it if Weis wouldn't have considered that an embarrassment of riches compared to what Ty left for him.

From 1997 thru 2009 we had SIX records of .500 or worse. 13 years and 6 of them were .500 or below - let that sink in for a while. 3-9 sucks a lot worse than 5-7 - Weis delivered that gem.

Granted Faust was .500 or worse in two of his five seasons but we are only talking about five years of sucking (really six if you count Lou's first year). I will also grant you that, at the time, Notre Dame had a tremendous built in national recruiting advantage that has diminished over the last two decades with the advent of live sports programming.

We got completely destroyed by MSU, regardless of the score. And if we play a 2006 level-LSU type team this year, the game will be a disaster. I think the 2006 ND team would beat this team.

 

[ACamp1900]

We got completely destroyed by MSU, regardless of the score. And if we play a 2006 level-LSU type team this year, the game will be a disaster. I think the 2006 ND team would beat this team.

idk, that 06 defense was pretty slow...

 

[phgreek]

idk, that 06 defense was pretty slow...

Game was different...not sure


Quinn, Shark, Rhema, Walker, Carlson...Oline was OK, Dline was OK, linebackers were SLOW as hell...had N'Dukwe, Zibby, Wooden, Richardson on the back end. They had their moments.

It might look somewhat like last weekend in Jersey maybe...shrug.

 

[Cackalacky]

idk, that 06 defense was pretty slow...

It was the 10 in thick grass.

 

[ACamp1900]

It was the 10 in thick grass.

It slowed down those SC guys by about two full steps... problem was, we played on the same grass......

 

[koonja]

ISD podcast ripping our S/C program hard right now. Longo must go.

 

[phgreek]

ISD podcast ripping our S/C program hard right now. Longo must go.

Is he not keeping up with best practices?

All I can recall is the HUGE difference between 2010 and 2011 in terms of the players physiques...they looked rocked up in 2011 vs previous years. So I just took it that he was doing his job.

 

[NDRock]

Is he not keeping up with best practices?

All I can recall is the HUGE difference between 2010 and 2011 in terms of the players physiques...they looked rocked up in 2011 vs previous years. So I just took it that he was doing his job.

Agree, the Weis years were bad. Longo is much better than the previous regime. Not really sure how he stacks up nationally. My buddy at work, who is a Gator's fan, was bitching about their S&C yesterday. Told me they've had a crazy amount of injuries the last few years.

 

[gkIrish]

ISD podcast ripping our S/C program hard right now. Longo must go.

Around this time last year when the injuries were starting to pile up I said I was almost at the point where Longo and the rest of the S/C had to be the problem by process of elimination.

I am not fully on board with moving on. Bring in a new staff. There has to b something about our training that helps cause all the injuries.

 

[greyhammer90]

ISD podcast ripping our S/C program hard right now. Longo must go.

The Irish Illustrated podcast just last week responded with a pretty emphatic "no" when someone asked if the S&C staff was an issue. They basically said that if the players do what they are told to do, they see huge results. I detected an implication that some of the players aren't following the S&C staff's recommended diet and exercise routines, and that the II guys thought that was an example where the players were at fault.

They also said that Longo would never ever be fired while BK was at Notre Dame. First, because they thought he did excellent work. Second, because they said Longo is BK's best friend. Not good friend. Not "has a history with him" a la VanGorder. Not best friend in a professional setting. Best friends. They were pretty clear that there wasn't a chance in hell that Longo and BK would ever separate.

 

[Cackalacky]

I have always wondered if the academic rigor side of ND prevents adequate rest and recovery for football players. I would love some anecdotal evidence.

 

[irishff1014]

The Irish Illustrated podcast just last week responded with a pretty emphatic "no" when someone asked if the S&C staff was an issue. They basically said that if the players do what they are told to do, they see huge results. I detected an implication that some of the players aren't following the S&C staff's recommended diet and exercise routines, and that the II guys thought that was an example where the players were at fault.

They also said that Longo would never ever be fired while BK was at Notre Dame. First, because they thought he did excellent work. Second, because they said Longo is BK's best friend. Not good friend. Not "has a history with him" a la VanGorder. Not best friend in a professional setting. Best friends. They were pretty clear that there wasn't a chance in hell that Longo and BK would ever separate.

Great the news we all wanted to hear....Not

 

[DCirishfan]

1) How is this post at all responsive? You said our defense looks like it could be competent the rest of the year and I say you are basing that on one half of football. Then you go off on how BK isn't going anywhere...What does that have to do with anything?

2) This is why I honestly don't respect your football knowledge. I have nothing against you personally and agree with a lot of what you say in non-football threads but dude, what are you even talking about with Jim Tressel? Are you trolling right now?

You don't fire a coach for ONE 8-4 season. Everyone knows that. Jim Tressel went

10-2
12-1
11-2
10-3
11-2
12-1

in the years after the 8-4 season. They went to a BCS bowl every single year. They went to the Natty twice. He won 3 BCS games.

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 4 times and will do so again this year. What are you even talking about?

And bk has not even been competitive in his top 2 bowl games.

 

[koonja]

Around this time last year when the injuries were starting to pile up I said I was almost at the point where Longo and the rest of the S/C had to be the problem by process of elimination.

I am not fully on board with moving on. Bring in a new staff. There has to b something about our training that helps cause all the injuries.

Their rant didn't even include a mention of injuries. It's that our 4 start guys get pushed around by other teams 3 star guys, our players don't get physically better in year 3 vs. 1. Their argument was all about looking the same, not imy roving, and with the exception of a fewelittle players, get moved around by lesser talent.

 

[NDRock]

Their rant didn't even include a mention of injuries. It's that our 4 start guys get pushed around by other teams 3 star guys, our players don't get physically better in year 3 vs. 1. Their argument was all about looking the same, not imy roving, and with the exception of a fewelittle players, get moved around by lesser talent.

Yet, a lot of our guys have early NFL success. Part of the problem is that Kelly's teams have never been good at "pounding" the ball, but are typically very good at pass protection. I'd say that's because we focus on that a lot more. I'm sure there is plenty of room for our S&C program to improve but one big area is that our offense is more finesse than physical. Obviously Mike is a lot closer to the program than most of us here so I'm sure there is some legitimacy to what he says.

 

[GowerND11]

Their rant didn't even include a mention of injuries. It's that our 4 start guys get pushed around by other teams 3 star guys, our players don't get physically better in year 3 vs. 1. Their argument was all about looking the same, not imy roving, and with the exception of a fewelittle players, get moved around by lesser talent.

I'm sorry, but that argument is stupid. A 3 star can't be stronger than a 4 star? I get what they we're going for, but that's just trying to make their point without thinking it through.