Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

Brian Kelly Revisited


  • Total voters
    382

Luckylucci

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
27,770
Reaction score
10,153
Bruh.



Nearly word-for-word. It's just so perplexing that he won't commit to the aggressive, "F*ck it let's score points" attitude that got him here, especially since he's a smart guy that knows how bad his d-coordinator is.



This is exactly what he did at UC, and exactly what got him to ND. I was so excited for this season, despite the major level of inexperience and all of the major questions, because I figured that with Kizer at the helm, he was FINALLY gonna let the dogs off the leash and go BK Air Raid on everyone's asses. I figured we might lose one or two games in shootouts, but starting the season at 1-2 BECAUSE he won't let the dogs off the leash is killing me on the inside.

At UC, he'd throw the entire passing playbook at them through the first two quarters, regardless of down and distance, and he would then pick-and-choose his spots to gash them with the run game, once the opposition realized that first-down base defense wasn't safe.

ND is literally set up perfectly to play that type of game. You've got a QB that can air it out, and an OL that can operate fine in pass pro. Once you've got the defense on their heals, you can help the OL gel in the run-game by feeding your beast RB the ball on counters, zones and semi-reverses to capitalize on a numbers advantage.

As someone who watched every game he coached at UC before he was even at ND, it's terribly disappointing to see that he won't go back to his roots. It's like he's scared to open it up, because then he'd be admitting his defense is a failure, which is something he probably catches a lot more heat for at ND than he did at UC.

One of my biggest contentions with some of his coaching. He continues to call/coach a game as if he has a defense that he's confident can regularly get stops. Even though its obvious he doesn't. There is a place and time for making the "right" or safe coaching decisions, but there is also a place and time when a coach has to make the correct decisions. Plain and simple, he's not. He's failing this team.

I certainly don't want him fired but the coaching staff is not doing a good job at this time. I've said this a million times but this team has talent, more than Texas and MSU. Yet we lost both games.
 

Downinthebend

New member
Messages
1,035
Reaction score
77
One of my biggest contentions with some of his coaching. He continues to call/coach a game as if he has a defense that he's confident can regularly get stops. Even though its obvious he doesn't. There is a place and time for making the "right" or safe coaching decisions, but there is also a place and time when a coach has to make the correct decisions. Plain and simple, he's not. He's failing this team.

I certainly don't want him fired but the coaching staff is not doing a good job at this time. I've said this a million times but this team has talent, more than Texas and MSU. Yet we lost both games.

I would rep you, but I gave too much out, is there a way to get around that or is that just a lock always?
 

Downinthebend

New member
Messages
1,035
Reaction score
77
Just watch a couple minutes...look at 0:53; 1:50; 2:03

2:14 is a good example of what i see with most teams over the years

I'm more of a pass guy myself, but from watching alot of Oregon/Baylor/texas this year they didnt seem that much slower to my eye.

But like I said, someone who is more well versed on meshes would have a decent answer.
 

IrishBroker

New member
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
50
I think BK has proven that his average year is 8-5 so that's what I expected this year after we lost so much from last year's team. He's won 10 and 12 games the years where the talent lined up. I think offensively we could be scary good next year if everyone comes back. Couple that with a competent collegiate DC and we could have a 10-3 type year. I think 8-11 wins is what we will get with him going forward. The Richt comparison is apropos.

Richt is a fantastic comparison.

If we are willing to ride out 5 losses this year, then I agree next year we can be really good if all the pieces return. I think Wimbush is the starter next year...Kizer goes NFL and Zaire transfers.

But the D is still a big question. So many holes to fill...a new DC may not even be able to correct that in 1-2 seasons.
 

NDgradstudent

Banned
Messages
2,414
Reaction score
165
I'm taking USC or LSU over ND, not Auburn. Auburn is a coaching graveyard... it's like LSU, but even worse because you're little brother to Bama.

Him picking LSU over us wouldn't be awful. He's from Simi Valley though. If he picks USC over us...we'll be getting badly out-coached by MSU, OSU, UM, and USC. Yikes.
 

GO IRISH!!!

Nashville Livin'!
Messages
3,695
Reaction score
428
Richt is a fantastic comparison.

If we are willing to ride out 5 losses this year, then I agree next year we can be really good if all the pieces return. I think Wimbush is the starter next year...Kizer goes NFL and Zaire transfers.

But the D is still a big question. So many holes to fill...a new DC may not even be able to correct that in 1-2 seasons.

And not being able to just fill those holes from anywhere in the JUCO ranks is the biggest limitation to coaching at ND IMO. Other programs would be able to just pluck kids that have had one or two years in a college program that could step right in and make a difference. At ND, the coach has to recruit kids they think will be good in two or three years and then wait for them to develop and hope they pan out and avoid injury.
 

philipm31

Well-known member
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
84
No, that's bullshit. Sorry. When we had years of not winning bowls everyone harped on "how important it was to win on the biggest stage" and when we got blown out by Alabama everyone pointed to that as invalidating the body of work for the season. But then people want to turn around and say shredding the top defense in the SEC while a double digit underdog shouldn't count because "the game is meaningless"... that's indefensible.

Every year you hear that from SEC fans when they lose bowl games... that they "didn't care." But in years when they win bowl games, it's proof of their superiority. They do care. They did play hard.

Cherry picking stats is the clearest example of bias. You lose your right to critique the moment you start exhibiting that sampling bias, which is exactly what that troll is doing.



That is the typical complaint by a SEC team when they get smashed...and it is total crap. If you cannot get up for a game that means something...and clearly there are far too many bowl games, but I remember the first bowl game I ever went to was with a 7-5 (I think) Bama vs. Illinois at the Liberty Bowl in Memphis. Of course, that was Bear's last game, so it was packed. The next year, BC (with Flutie) played ND in the Liberty Bowl and it was packed...because everyone cared, from the teams to the fans.

The idea that you cannot get up for a bowl game is just dumb. That is what FLA fans said when LOU stomped them; what Bama fans said after Ohio State AND Utah crushed them, etc. It is a flimsy and sad excuse.

I mean, honestly, people claim that we get everyone's best shot every week...except in a bowl game? Riiiight.
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,546
Reaction score
29,007

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,014
Reaction score
5,055
Have you guys watched Oregon's defense this year? It's not "Notre Dame" bad, but it's bad. Hoke shouldn't even be in the top 5 of guys we look at, but he should be on the list.
Understandable. What's your list? I know the big names, but I don't know how realistic they would be

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 

NorthDakota

Grandson of Loomis
Messages
15,706
Reaction score
6,014
I'd just go ahead and give ndsu's coach a briefcase of cash and tell him there is more where that came from. Dude makes about 400k now, a cool million a year should get his attention.
 

philipm31

Well-known member
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
84
The real question everyone should be asking is why we refuse to air it out like how Kelly did in Cinci despite that clearly being what the team is suited to do. Against Clemson we tried to play conservative for 3 quarters... got nothing. Then we started throwing and scored 3 straight TDs. Against USC and Stanford last year we used aggressive play calling to hit big plays. I thought at that point the coaches had figured it out.

But then through three games this year we went back to what we did against Clemson and basically how we played for years before Kizer. Conservative, horizontal, predictable play calling that lets the opponent flow downhill. We check into plays based on what they show instead of going with "call it and haul it" and putting them on their heels. This works if and only if the OL can dominate... which they can't. We wait until we're down 3 scores to start attacking... we did it against both Texas and MSU.

At some point the staff needs to get their heads out of their asses and, to borrow a line from Herm Edwards, play to win the game. We should be spreading teams out and attacking vertically with both WRs from the opening whistle, and then after they back their guys off in coverage we start establishing the ground game. It was insane watching us run into the teeth of the MSU defense over and over again when they absolutely knew pre-snap that we had checked into a run based on what they showed us. We're letting defenses dictate what play we're running.

Truth.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Hey, first time poster and long time Irish fan in south Georgia. Reading this board and watching ND feels like UGA during Richt era. It was always the coordinator (bobo or maney diaz) and Richt always got a pass......Kelly is in year 7 and things have not progressed - they haven't completely regressed - but they are not getting better. ND just doesn't win big games in the Kelly era (same as UGA w/Richt).....we aren't bad but we aren't good and in year 7 that is unacceptable

Awesome comparison!

Here is my game cut. I am of the opinion where did I see it? That Brian Kelly is the best 8-5 coach in America!

See my game cut on Post # 1546

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/not...when-will-vangorder-fired-39.html#post1792238

And not being able to just fill those holes from anywhere in the JUCO ranks is the biggest limitation to coaching at ND IMO. Other programs would be able to just pluck kids that have had one or two years in a college program that could step right in and make a difference. At ND, the coach has to recruit kids they think will be good in two or three years and then wait for them to develop and hope they pan out and avoid injury.

See, that is right as far as it goes. But at ND, you don't play the young kid if you have any experience at the position, no matter how slow, crippled, or inadequate.
 

Wingman Ray

Banned
Messages
1,578
Reaction score
110
Richt is a fantastic comparison.

If we are willing to ride out 5 losses this year, then I agree next year we can be really good if all the pieces return. I think Wimbush is the starter next year...Kizer goes NFL and Zaire transfers.

But the D is still a big question. So many holes to fill...a new DC may not even be able to correct that in 1-2 seasons.

So tell me, how many good programs are penthouse shithouse like ND? How many 5-6 loss seasons do you see OSU, Bama, Stanford, GA, FSU, LSU (prior to this year) have? So basically as ND fans, do we need to plan on having 1 really good season, 3 average and 2 below average seasons every 5 years?
 

Wingman Ray

Banned
Messages
1,578
Reaction score
110
I think BK has proven that his average year is 8-5 so that's what I expected this year after we lost so much from last year's team. He's won 10 and 12 games the years where the talent lined up. I think offensively we could be scary good next year if everyone comes back. Couple that with a competent collegiate DC and we could have a 10-3 type year. I think 8-11 wins is what we will get with him going forward. The Richt comparison is apropos.

So 10-3 is a season to aspire to? That is still sitting home from the playoffs all day long.

ND lost so much talent from last year? Good teams rebuild talent. Great teams just reload. ND loses and has a bare cupboard because ND cant develop year to year.
 

IrishBroker

New member
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
50
And not being able to just fill those holes from anywhere in the JUCO ranks is the biggest limitation to coaching at ND IMO. Other programs would be able to just pluck kids that have had one or two years in a college program that could step right in and make a difference. At ND, the coach has to recruit kids they think will be good in two or three years and then wait for them to develop and hope they pan out and avoid injury.

I agree. We need to allow the JUCO's...and also, as bad as this may sound, relax on standards. Not saying we should allow total idiots, but it wouldn't kill us to beef up the tutoring and allow some guys who are borderline.

Yeah, I know I'll probably get railed about that, but if we want to compete year in and year out, we need too. 12-0 every 6 or 7 years isn't competing year in and year out. In fact, you can call that the exception to the rule when it comes to Kelly.

To me, we will probably be trapped in 8-9 win zone forever. Even 10 wins won't guarantee you playoffs.

We need to be up there with Bama and OSU.
 

Sherm Sticky

The Prophet
Messages
19,321
Reaction score
1,638
So tell me, how many good programs are penthouse shithouse like ND? How many 5-6 loss seasons do you see OSU, Bama, Stanford, GA, FSU, LSU (prior to this year) have? So basically as ND fans, do we need to plan on having 1 really good season, 3 average and 2 below average seasons every 5 years?



Auburn is the prime example of top 10 talent every year that finishes with between 4-8 wins.

LSU he past few years has not been lighting the win column up either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Irish4Life09

Banned
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
123
We all just need to pray that some dumb NFL team offers Kelly after this year.
The best word I can describe our program right now, is 'stagnant'.
We are just simply flat. Yes I can take off my green glasses and see that BK has improved our program a good deal since he got here.
However, we are stuck. Our recruiting is lackluster, our field production is terrible.
This is year 7, and it feels like 2007 all over again with Weis.
There is absolutely no reason we should be having the issues we're having, even with injuries and off-field BS.
This is still a top program that should be able to get some of the best recruits in the country.

Lets all just take a minute and pray for a stupid NFL team to come calling.
 

bluengold4732

New member
Messages
215
Reaction score
7
If Kelly does Four THINGS...we're a playoff caliber team.
1. Hire a proven DC and talented position coaches on defense.
2. Fix his player personnel on Special Teams
3. Hire a proven S&C coach
4. For the love of GOD have better game time management
 
K

koonja

Guest
If Kelly does Four THINGS...we're a playoff caliber team.
1. Hire a proven DC and talented position coaches on defense.
2. Fix his player personnel on Special Teams
3. Hire a proven S&C coach
4. For the love of GOD have better game time management

There are 15 schools that could say that with these 4 things though.
 

Sherm Sticky

The Prophet
Messages
19,321
Reaction score
1,638
We all just need to pray that some dumb NFL team offers Kelly after this year.

The best word I can describe our program right now, is 'stagnant'.

We are just simply flat. Yes I can take off my green glasses and see that BK has improved our program a good deal since he got here.

However, we are stuck. Our recruiting is lackluster, our field production is terrible.

This is year 7, and it feels like 2007 all over again with Weis.

There is absolutely no reason we should be having the issues we're having, even with injuries and off-field BS.

This is still a top program that should be able to get some of the best recruits in the country.



Lets all just take a minute and pray for a stupid NFL team to come calling.



I disagree that recruiting has been lackluster.

The 2017 class is pretty damn good.

The Majority of the best players and certainly the most athletic players on the current team are sophomores and freshman.

Not sure how you can say recruiting has been lackluster recently.

Oh and not to mention the 2018 class is sick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

NDgradstudent

Banned
Messages
2,414
Reaction score
165
I disagree that recruiting has been lackluster.

The 2017 class is pretty damn good.

The Majority of the best players and certainly the most athletic players on the current team are sophomores and freshman.

Not sure how you can say recruiting has been lackluster recently.

Oh and not to mention the 2018 class is sick.

Our 2013 class was top 5. BK's pre-2013 record: 28-11. BK's 2013-present record: 28-14 (27-12 before this season). Lack of talent is not the issue.
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181
However, we are stuck. Our recruiting is lackluster, our field production is terrible.
This is year 7, and it feels like 2007 all over again with Weis.
There is absolutely no reason we should be having the issues we're having, even with injuries and off-field BS.
This is still a top program that should be able to get some of the best recruits in the country.

Lets all just take a minute and pray for a stupid NFL team to come calling.

How do you figure that our recruiting is lackluster?
 

Sherm Sticky

The Prophet
Messages
19,321
Reaction score
1,638
Our 2013 class was top 5. BK's pre-2013 record: 28-11. BK's 2013-present record: 28-14 (27-12 before this season). Lack of talent is not the issue.



Why are you quoting me and calling me out?

I was disagreeing with the OP. I was saying that recruiting has not been lackluster. The OP was the one who stated its been lackluster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

NDgradstudent

Banned
Messages
2,414
Reaction score
165
Hey, first time poster and long time Irish fan in south Georgia. Reading this board and watching ND feels like UGA during Richt era. It was always the coordinator (bobo or maney diaz) and Richt always got a pass......Kelly is in year 7 and things have not progressed - they haven't completely regressed - but they are not getting better. ND just doesn't win big games in the Kelly era (same as UGA w/Richt).....we aren't bad but we aren't good and in year 7 that is unacceptable

Kelly is Richt except that (1) Richt is not an arrogant, oblivious prick who blames the players for failing; (2) Richt almost beat the 2012 Bama team; (3) Richt doesn't hire oafish cronies to fill critical coordinator positions, as far as I know.

Why are you quoting me and calling me out?

I was disagreeing with the OP. I was saying that recruiting has not been lackluster. The OP was the one who stated its been lackluster.

Sorry about that. I thought you were saying no need to worry about BK because talent is coming in.
 
Top