Brian Kelly > Lou Holtz

[Irishize]

Funny thing is if KSU and Oregon don't both choke I think we probably win it all.

This^

I attended the 2012 WF game and then went to Legends to eat w/ the fam and we watched both KSU & Oregon lose which vaulted ND to #1 and the sign was lit up on campus. That was short-lived b/c it allowed a path for Bama.

That 12 Bama team had one half where they slipped up and let Johnny Football take advantage of the situation. In the 2nd half of that game, TAMU was literally playing “not to lose” and Bama couldn’t quite come back to win.

To be fair, Bama was far & away the best program that year. And as much as SEC/UGA fans love to say otherwise, I do not believe that they would’ve dominated ND the way Bama did. That UGA team struggled w/ stopping the run.

 

[tussin]

2020 ND vs 2012 ND ... what’s the line? 2020 by 3.5?

 

[NDVirginia19]

I think 2020 wins by 7-10. I think 2020 beats 2018 by 3. A healthy 2015 team might be the closest game, but I think Clark Lea figures out that offense.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

2020 ND vs 2012 ND ... what’s the line? 2020 by 3.5?

Higher, we have to assume the coaching staffs are also 2020 vs 2012. 2020 by double digits imo. Also 2020 beats 2018 as well, but I think it's a bit closer.

 

[NDRock]

in the 88 NC year, we beat #9 scUM, #1 Miami, #2 USC, and #3 WV.....

4 top 10, and 3 top 3 teams.

We’d probably have to do similar this year to win the NC.

 

[Irish YJ]

We’d probably have to do similar this year to win the NC.

Yup. But that was a bit rare back in those days with no CFP. Any NC now has to beat at least 2 top 4 teams. If we beat Clemson in the ACC-C, we'd have beaten 4 top 4 teams if we win the NC.

 

[IrishLion]

MR. MCGIBBLETS FROM THE CLOUDS.

Idk about the take (probably true, though, when you consider Lou had looser reins), but I do know that ND would have destroyed KSU in the natty in 2012.

Fuck you, Baylor.

 

[Irishnuke]

2020 ND vs 2012 ND ... what’s the line? 2020 by 3.5?

Which team would Shaun Crawford play for?

 

[arahop]

Let's be honest, in a world where Paterno got his wins back after the Ped St. cover up, and Miami and NC received nothing for their unreported violations, it's a crock of shit we even got dinged by the NCAA for self reporting a couple players having papers written for them... unbeknownst to the staff when it occurred. It's a horrible look on the NCAA honestly.

Absolutely

 

[ThePiombino]

Did BK technically get his 2012 and 2013 wins vacated? They don’t count toward his total on his Wiki page...

That could be easily remedied...

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[notredomer23]

I think BK’s body of work might better but Lou still has the NC.

If Kelly gets an NC, the Mount Rushmore of ND coaches is Rockne, Leahy, Kelly, and Ara. In that order.

 

[IrishLax]

The most talented ND team of the Kelly era was the 2015 team. Unfortunately, they had terrible coaching on one side of the football and also lacked depth. 2020 is the deepest team, despite lacking some to end talent of past teams.

 

[stpeteirish]

Yeah, to sum it up, Lou has the edge but Kelly is closing in and doing it with less talent.

Having less talent is part on Kelly but also impacted by a change in the CFB landscape where the Midwest has lost talent vs the South.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Brian Kelly > Lou Holtz

Hypothetical:

You can add ONE player from 2012 or 2015 to the 2020 roster. Who you got?

Im down to Jaylon or Fuller. Probably would take Jaylon simply because his effect would be felt every single play, instead of a few times a game.

The offense is far more desperate for an elite home run threat though than the defense is for a field general.

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[Irish#1]

BK needs a NC to be on par with Lou. NC's are why Ara, Lou, Knute and Frank have statues.

Now if BK sticks around long enough that his win total exceeds others by 25 or more without a NC, then he might be considered better.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Hypothetical:

You can add ONE player from 2012 or 2015 to the 2020 roster. Who you got?


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I'm torn between Jaylon and Will Fuller from 2015... I think I've gotta go with Jaylon, though I think Fuller would be a comparatively bigger upgrade to our WR Corps. I just think with Jaylon's pre injury talent, we'd have the best ND Defense of all time.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Brian Kelly > Lou Holtz

BK needs a NC to be on par with Lou. NC's are why Ara, Lou, Knute and Frank have statues.

Now if BK sticks around long enough that his win total exceeds others by 25 or more without a NC, then he might be considered better.

When you look at coaches who won a natty over the last 3 decades or so, the list of guys who arent tier one, first ballot HOFers is very small. Only the most elite coaches win titles for the most part.

I have zero doubt BK could get the job done at somewhere like FSU, LSU, etc. If he takes one down at ND, he isnt a hero, hes a FUCKING LEGEND

The anomalies are:

Ed O
Gene Chizik
Les Miles
Larry Coker


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[notredomer23]

Hypothetical:

You can add ONE player from 2012 or 2015 to the 2020 roster. Who you got?

Im down to Jaylon or Fuller. Probably would take Jaylon simply because his effect would be felt every single play, instead of a few times a game.

The offense is far more desperate for an elite home run threat though than the defense is for a field general.

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Julian Love would have the biggest impact on this team’s defense. Jaylon was obviously a significantly better college player, but our LBs this year are just fine. If there’s one weakness, it’s in the secondary.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Julian Love would have the biggest impact on this team’s defense. Jaylon was obviously a significantly better college player, but our LBs this year are just fine. If there’s one weakness, it’s in the secondary.

2015 didn't have Julian Love on the roster... Maybe Mathias Farley be the add to the secondary

 

[Irishize]

Here is where I think BGIF would have regaled us with another telling of Holtz benefiting from Vinnie Cerrano’s recruiting.

Make no mistake, ND was never the same after Cerrato’s last recruiting class graduated/left early for draft. ND was able to walk a fine line in recruiting (incl two Prop 48s) b/c the entire administration was desperate for Holtz to repair what Faust had broken. Once it worked, the powers that be started clamping down on Cerrato & Holtz.

Holtz had so many big wins that only coaches like Saban & Meyer can compare to modern day. If there had been a CFP, Holtz would’ve had three NCs IMO...1988. 1989 & 1993

 

[ARALOU]

Yeah. A couple years ago Kelly was getting roasted about winning big games. Now some want to crown his ass. Lou won some huge games. I like Kelly, dont get me wrong, but he isn't Lou. He wins a Championship then he has a spot in the conversation but until then he is in another category.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Kelly is definitively the best coach to not win a national championship, and probably can be considered ahead of Devine

 

[irishff1014]

Kelly is definitively the best coach to not win a national championship, and probably can be considered ahead of Devine

These are the games Kelly and company used to lose. I even made the comment in the game day thread. It’s taken a while but thank god we are finally here.

 

[ARALOU]

Plus I agree with Irishize. Lou gets 3 under any playoff format.

 

[Irishman77]

One big win does not move you ahead of a legend. Gheesh!

 

[NDRock]

Hypothetical:

You can add ONE player from 2012 or 2015 to the 2020 roster. Who you got?

Im down to Jaylon or Fuller. Probably would take Jaylon simply because his effect would be felt every single play, instead of a few times a game.

The offense is far more desperate for an elite home run threat though than the defense is for a field general.

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Easily Will Fuller.

 

[NDRock]

2020 ND vs 2012 ND ... what’s the line? 2020 by 3.5?

The 2012 team wouldn’t score in double digits against this team. Chuck Martin vs. Lea would be a huge mismatch for the ‘12 team.

 

[pumpdog20]

Hypothetical:

You can add ONE player from 2012 or 2015 to the 2020 roster. Who you got?

Im down to Jaylon or Fuller. Probably would take Jaylon simply because his effect would be felt every single play, instead of a few times a game.

The offense is far more desperate for an elite home run threat though than the defense is for a field general.

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Fuller

Fuller to the field, Mckinley to the boundary, and Skowronek in the boundary. Along with baby Gronk, that's a passing attack that frees KW up even more. And that's an offense that can keep up with Alabama given our lines play.

We have our Jaylon light in Wu. The only other player I'd probably consider is maybe Tuitt from 2012, though I still think the answer is offense here.

 

[Irish#1]

Hypothetical:

You can add ONE player from 2012 or 2015 to the 2020 roster. Who you got?

Im down to Jaylon or Fuller. Probably would take Jaylon simply because his effect would be felt every single play, instead of a few times a game.

The offense is far more desperate for an elite home run threat though than the defense is for a field general.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely Fuller. This D is already vicious. Fuller would add a dimension this O doesn't have.

 

[BeauBenken]

We all just going to act like Mr. McGibblets didn't just publicly post for the first time since 2016? Good to see you brother.