BQ sphomore year vs Tommy

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Tommy can improve! Of course he can. Decision making, putting the ball in a better catchable position ( not to the wrong hip, shoulder, too high or turning the player totally around like he did on 8 of his throws Saturday), hitting the wide open man, moving in the pocket, avoiding rush, calling audibles, etc. He can improve on each and every one of those areas. But, the main and only question(s) I have is can he improve his athletic running ability-No not really IMO and can he improve his arm strength-No not really, or all of the tons of weak armed QB's in the nation would improve to cannons. Sorry, his ceiling is low because of his physical ability.

I guess surround him with game breakers at WR and RB because he needs it because he can't game break with the vertical throw. Have all american type WR and TE and he can win games. Floyd, Eifert, Rudolph type players he will be fine. If we have lesser main guys Tommy will struggle IMO.

 

[irishpat183]

I agree, it is nice to see him getting better. And even with moving in the pocket. The problem I have still is that his running ability, the pass to Eifert was a very short (a really nice pass, but short) and not a longer pass on the run. Is his running ability going to get better? Is he going to become a better athlete in a year? The other problem I have is his arm going to get stronger over the next year? Can he throw on the run while rolling out? Or flushed, and has to be longer than 15 yards? I think it is no to these and this is the problem I really have with him, outside the turnovers that he is now looking to be improving.

If we are fine with this short passing game, great. IF we want to extend the field Tommy is not the guy. And this is why I firmly believe Tommy is not a good QB. Good teams (not the Wake's and Marylands of the world, but really good teams) will figure us out and this short passing game. There isn't any vertical passes, and if they are thrown guys have to slow down and come back for the ball, AKA the Wide open Floyd two games ago on a 35 yard pass--where he almost had to stop for the ball.

I am super happy Tommy is getting better, it makes us a better team. But, is he really going to get arm strength or athletic ability in a year? I don't think so, so this short passing game is here to stay as long as Tommy is our QB. At least he isn't turning the ball over at an epic rate.

And the overall comparisons to him and BQ are crazy. Brady was an athlete, a vocal leader, big arm--right now Tommy has none of those abiliies. The only one he can get is the vocal leader the athlete and big arm--can you really improve on those???? I don't think so, maybe a little on the arm. Either God gave you those or not.

Yeah, I think Floyd has bailed him out numerous times.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

I think our receivers have over and over, I look at his completion rate with a slight asterik because of how good our receivers have and bailed him out on the ball not being put in good places. Eifert, TJ, Wood, Floyd, etc have bailed him out soooooo many times. Granted he got the ball there, but in the wrong places so many times.

 

[Riddickulous]

I think our receivers have over and over, I look at his completion rate with a slight asterik because of how good our receivers have and bailed him out on the ball not being put in good places. Eifert, TJ, Wood, Floyd, etc have bailed him out soooooo many times. Granted he got the ball there, but in the wrong places so many times.

Oh, come on.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Go watch the replay, I have after every game. And Tommy's ball placement isn't very good. The positive is that the ball is there so they have a chance.

If you don't believe me, go back at watch each and every game. It is frightfully abvious. And if you don't want to rewatch the games that is on you. Or even listen to Mayock (you may not like him, like a lot here don't) but he has said time and time again this year that Tommy's ball placement is an issue.

Believe it or not, go watch and you will see it.

 

[irishpat183]

Go watch the replay, I have after every game. And Tommy's ball placement isn't very good. The positive is that the ball is there so they have a chance.

If you don't believe me, go back at watch each and every game. It is frightfully abvious. And if you don't want to rewatch the games that is on you. Or even listen to Mayock (you may not like him, like a lot here don't) but he has said time and time again this year that Tommy's ball placement is an issue.

Believe it or not, go watch and you will see it.

Yeah, he's pretty terrible at throwing the deep ball. But he can get better. Don't know how much better, but he can improve.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

I guess you are right he can get better. Especially when BK hardly ever calls it because he doesn't want Tommy to get picked. Another problem is that his weak arm, and is inability to read the safety coverage. The reading can get better, I am trying to think positive on the getting better on the deep ball, but not really sure he can get any more arm strength to do it. Tommy just doesn't have the arm for it.

I guess he can hit the weight room, work on his foot mechanics (which are not great by the film I have watched over and over this year-but did improve this weekend) he can improve.

Hope so, otherwise this short passing game is what we will get.

 

[mick2]

how much of the hatred(for lack of a better term) towards rees do you think is attributed to his not exactly having the "look" of a successful QB?

hes not the 6'4" 230lb rocket arm, specimen that BQ or Dayne are, he wasn't highly touted out of high school like jimmy. he can't run like golson or hendrix. yada yada yada the list goes on.

i wanted Dayne at the beginning of the year, and i still don't quite understand how rees is our best option at QB. but he wins more often than not. and right now i'll take that.

 

[Riddickulous]

how much of the hatred(for lack of a better term) towards rees do you think is attributed to his not exactly having the "look" of a successful QB?

hes not the 6'4" 230lb rocket arm, specimen that BQ or Dayne are, he wasn't highly touted out of high school like jimmy. he can't run like golson or hendrix. yada yada yada the list goes on.

i wanted Dayne at the beginning of the year, and i still don't quite understand how rees is our best option at QB. but he wins more often than not. and right now i'll take that.

High football IQ, accurate, efficient, doesn't fold under pressure, quick release, is twelve years old and has a higher ceiling than we realize, etc.

 

[mick2]

High football IQ, accurate, efficient, doesn't fold under pressure, quick release, is twelve years old and has a higher ceiling than we realize, etc.

haha thank you for taking one part of my entire post and picking it apart.

thing is, i hear alot more people saying he is inaccurate and inefficient.

maybe i've gauged the feelings regarding rees on this board wrong.

national championship ceiling?

will there be an open competition for the job again next season?

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Championship Ceiling? NOPE

Wins more often than not, against non BCS teams yes. Now playing the big boys??? I don't think he can achieve success with his lack of running and lack of arm strength against really good teams. Hope I am wrong, and the Stanford game will be the tell tale sign IMO.

Open comp next season??? Do you really think BK will start a freshman or guy with little experience next year and go through the growing pains again? Not in my opinion.

The short passing game will be on again next year IMO. And Tommy's security blanket will be gone, I guess Tyler will be his next one.

I like Tommy and I am glad he is improving, but I don't think he can lead us to the promised land. Fine against the Wakes, Marylands, Air Forces etc. But, can he lead us against good teams. The answer is yes only 1 time and that was Michigan State. Can't count USC last year, they didn't have their stud Barkley, and once they did Tommy couldn't lead us to a win at home under the biggest pressure he has had---he lost! The Bowl Game was almost over before it started when Harrison had 3 pics, and they couldn't guard Floyd to save their lives. When Floyd went out with injury Tommy looked very pedestrian. So, Tommy has lead us to a win against 1 really good team. If everyone is fine with beating Wakes, Marylands that is fine--I want the bigger fish too. I just don't know if Tommy is that QB. We will see in 2 weeks. When we go up against a pretty good defense with pressure on the QB. I really want to eat crow, because that means we are winners.

Go Irish!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I think our receivers have over and over, I look at his completion rate with a slight asterik because of how good our receivers have and bailed him out on the ball not being put in good places. Eifert, TJ, Wood, Floyd, etc have bailed him out soooooo many times. Granted he got the ball there, but in the wrong places so many times.

And Shark bailed out Brady a decent amount....Golden bailed out Jimmy...

Not saying he's in their league, but that's what a great receiver does. And a QB who knows he has a mismatch sometimes just heaves up that ball in that direction.

 

[returnofthemack]

I was (and still am) a huge fan of Dayne Crist. He's such a genuinely great guy and I think he could have done great things in his second year of the offense. Obviously, that point is moot now. I support Tommy simply because he's the starting QB now. So far, he hasn't proved that he can play well against the good teams on our schedule. He has an excellent chance to prove us wrong against Stanford and potentially FSU. If he can lead us to wins against them, I don't really care how crappy his arm is.

 

[IrishinSyria]

haha thank you for taking one part of my entire post and picking it apart.

thing is, i hear alot more people saying he is inaccurate and inefficient.

maybe i've gauged the feelings regarding rees on this board wrong.

national championship ceiling?

will there be an open competition for the job again next season?

They're lying. What happens in an internet debate is that the middle ground gets razed and people adopt positions that take on a life of their own. It's one of the reasons why American politics has become a theater of the absurd, and it's also why I hate it when people say things like "turnover Tommy."

As for Tommy, it's become a lot easier to live with his limitations this year now that he's settled down and done what he's supposed to do: managed the game and protect the football. In fact, with the Irish running the offense at a pace close to Kelly's goal of 100 snaps per game he illustrated a way he could thrive.

My biggest worry about Rees was that he couldn't stress a good defense. We had to rely on screens and draws to keep teams honest. An effective deep ball QB does that by making safeties hang back. An effective running QB does that by forcing the other team to either leave a backer as a spy or keep their d-ends contain. If ND starts running an effective hurry-up offense, it will leave other Ds constantly struggling to catch up. I could see Tommy doing really well in that scenario.

Not saying I don't think we have guys that could do better, but Tommy's skill set actually fits Kelly's ideal offense pretty well.

 

[BobD]

And Shark bailed out Brady a decent amount....Golden bailed out Jimmy...

Not saying he's in their league, but that's what a great receiver does. And a QB who knows he has a mismatch sometimes just heaves up that ball in that direction.

Without Rice, Montana and Young are just above average.

 

[Patulski]

Championship Ceiling? NOPE

Lots of average QB's win Championships in college and the pro's. What made Craig Krenzel a Championship QB? How about Trent Dilfer?

Alabama's QB Greg McElroy was #82 in Passing Offense, and#32 IN Passing Efficiency the year Alabama won the NC in 2009. They did however have the #12 Rushing Offense and the #2 Rushing Defense. McElroy went 4 games mid season without throwing a TD pass in 2009. Against Tennesseee, he was 18-of-29 for 120 yards, but Alabama had a great defense, and won the game 12–10.

Too much emphasis is put on QB's. A guy like McElroy's (and Krenzel and Dilfer) ceiling is as high as the rest of the team, which is usually the case. If McElroy was ND's QB in 2009, he wouldn't have won a National Championship. His ceiling would have been influenced by the team.

 

[TDHeysus]

Tommy is good enough to win, and is good enough for this team (thats not a knock on this team). All this negative talk about Tommy I think is misguided. Tommy isnt the greatest QB is CFB, but he wins games. Has there been one game that "because Tommy had a bad game" that ND lost? Instead, I can think of one game that ND won eventhough Tommy had a bad game (USC).

I have said many times, and it pisses some ppl off, but Tommy is a winner. He isnt the best, isnt the biggest, isnt the flashiest, but he wins games. He has those intangibles that doesnt come with raw talent.

 

[Nothingman]

Without Rice, Montana and Young are just above average.

Not trying to be a jerk, but Montana did win 2 Super Bowls without Rice. Rice is the greatest football player I have ever seen though.

Anyway back on topic. Here is a stat that I think really gets to the core of why people have reservations about Rees, yards per completion. BQ averaged 13.54 yards per completion his sophmore year while Tommy is currently averaging 10.73. The biggest complaints I have seen about Tommy are his lack of arm strength and inability to stretch the field and this stat is a great illustration of that. Three extra yards per completion is huge. In fairness to Tommy he does play in a different style offense and is completing 13% more of his passes than BQ did, but shorter passes are easier to complete as well.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

Lots of average QB's win Championships in college and the pro's. What made Craig Krenzel a Championship QB? How about Trent Dilfer?

Alabama's QB Greg McElroy was #82 in Passing Offense, and#32 IN Passing Efficiency the year Alabama won the NC in 2009. They did however have the #12 Rushing Offense and the #2 Rushing Defense. McElroy went 4 games mid season without throwing a TD pass in 2009. Against Tennesseee, he was 18-of-29 for 120 yards, but Alabama had a great defense, and won the game 12–10.

Too much emphasis is put on QB's. A guy like McElroy's (and Krenzel and Dilfer) ceiling is as high as the rest of the team, which is usually the case. If McElroy was ND's QB in 2009, he wouldn't have won a National Championship. His ceiling would have been influenced by the team.

It's ridiculous to compare 2009 Alabama or the 2000 Baltimore Ravens to current or near-future Notre Dame. Outstanding teams with average (but dependable) quarterbacks can win championships. However, more often than not, you need a stud.

2010: Rodgers over Roethlisberger
2009: Brees over Manning
2008: Roethlisberger over Warner
2007: other Manning over Brady
2006: Manning
2005: Roethlisberger
2004: Brady
2003: Brady

2010: Newton
2009: Bama defense vs. Colt McCoy
2008: Tebow
2007: Matt Flynn
2006: Chris Leak (5* coming out of high school) over Troy Smith (Heisman winner)
2005: Young over Leinart
2004: Leinart over Jason White (two Heisman-winning quarterbacks)

Unless Notre Dame's defense is going to transform into the best unit in the country in the next two years, Tommy Rees will likely lack the ability to truly lead this team to a national championship (IMHO, of course).

 

[ulukinatme]

Both QBs have similar stats and have that ability to make stuff happen with the game on the line. Quinn may have had more tools available, but until another QB steps up I'm just glad we've at least got Tommy.

 

[midnightrider28]

The one think that everyone seems to forget is the most important and thats game experience. Reese got the job cause Crist went down and he got the experience. Unless Reese goes down and somebody else proves they are good enough then Reese keeps the job.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Rees

 

[Ignats]

If Rees is the starter next year it's going to be painful to watch an offense with no Floyd and a QB who rarely steps out of the pocket.

 

[adsnorri]

I think we can agree that tommy is not the athletic quarterback that this defense is built for. However, the kid is a sophmore and were talking about him winning games for us. Imo he has done everything we have asked of him except turnovers(which come with age).

I was at that michigan game when we were down in the fourth and the stadium was rocking. I was close to the field and you could not hear yourself talk. The jumbotron was strobing ridiculously and tommy drive us down the field and put us up time and again. His demeanor is ages above his years and this is one huge intangible in quarterbacks at the college level that he has.

Not sure how you can be born with an arm that throws 80 yard bombs down the field?? You can definately get stronger and learn better mechanics. You can not gain the it factor and he has it, he will win us many games. Btw, I would key on the top five receiver and great tight end every play too. Duh! Tom brady sucks too cause welker is always getting the ball. Tommy will learn how to look off the safety and pump fake and the list goes on in this off season. Go irish

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

If Rees is the starter next year it's going to be painful to watch an offense with no Floyd and a QB who rarely steps out of the pocket.

 

[Green Goblin]

You'll be amazed at the way losing big players ALLOWS for other guys to step up. I know that sounds obvious and even cliche but its really a mental thing as much as a gameplan thing.

I think right now Riddick defers everything to Floyd because Floyd is the older, more established guy. I think Riddick will bud much in the same way Jonas Gray did when Hughes and Allen left.

I think GA3 has shown that he can come in next year and make an impact. I suspect we will be surprised by a freshman next year as well.

In a way, losing Floyd might make our offense a bit more dangerous. Everyone knew where we were going to throw the ball this year so they double covered Floyd. Next year, they have no idea where the ball is going. That's to our advantage and will really allow for one of the other WRs to step up rather easily.

Oh and that last touchdown pass against Maryland from Rees has me thinking, if he can consistently step up his game to that level next year, we might really have an explosive offense. That was a thing of beauty that last touchdown pass.

 

[koonja]

The difference between Quinn and Rees's sophomore year, is that Rees is playing with Quinn's senior year's talent.

Quinn was playing with a bunch of guys who were going to turn out to be good players but they were all very young and inexperienced. Rees is playing with the best ND team (minus QB) we've seen in the last decade. Think about it, have we had a better O-line in the last decade? How about a better running game? How about 4 starting senior (and one being a fifth year senior who was a pre-season all-american) defensive backs? And look at our d-line (I know EJ and KLM are/have been injured, but with Lynch and Tuitt backing them up it's as good as it's been). Then sprinkle in Manti and Floyd and you have the best ND team in the last decade, minus the QB position.

There is no comparison between BQs 04 team and this one. We are loaded this year, and yet we're 3-3 vs .500 or better teams.

 

[Mr. Larson]

You'll be amazed at the way losing big players ALLOWS for other guys to step up. I know that sounds obvious and even cliche but its really a mental thing as much as a gameplan thing.

I think right now Riddick defers everything to Floyd because Floyd is the older, more established guy. I think Riddick will bud much in the same way Jonas Gray did when Hughes and Allen left.

I think GA3 has shown that he can come in next year and make an impact. I suspect we will be surprised by a freshman next year as well.

In a way, losing Floyd might make our offense a bit more dangerous. Everyone knew where we were going to throw the ball this year so they double covered Floyd. Next year, they have no idea where the ball is going. That's to our advantage and will really allow for one of the other WRs to step up rather easily.

Oh and that last touchdown pass against Maryland from Rees has me thinking, if he can consistently step up his game to that level next year, we might really have an explosive offense. That was a thing of beauty that last touchdown pass.

Nope. MF is statistically, and arguably, the greatest receiver in the the history of ND. Also a tremendous blocker on the outside which allows the the read draws and bubble screens to be so successful. Floyd demands a double team at all times. That should be enough to open it up for other receivers to be successful.

Despite the double teams can you imagine what his numbers would look like this year if he had a QB capable of throwing at least a decent deep ball to him? BK has to invent ways to get the ball to Floyd on short passes and bubble screens.

Is Tommy our best chance of winning right now? Absolutely. And I love that he's a gamer. Is he the future? IDK...hoping for open competition for the spot next year.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

I have no idea what Tommy's performance will be next year. In fact, I don't know if he will even play next year. Can he get better? Will he become any stronger? According to most that compare Crist to Rees; Crist has the "tools" he has the "stronger arm" He is more "athletic" In fact Crist would seem to have all the tools that many of you say Rees lacks. That begs the question, from everyone that agrees with this, if you were picking the starting quarterback for this weeks game. Who would you choose, Crist or Rees? I recall that from the time I was 18-22, I got much stronger. This is not ground breaking. Most men do, it is part of the transformation from a boy to a man. Again, I say most. I am not as good as some at predicting the future.

The truth of the matter is that, Tommy is not perfect, he definitely has room to improve. You could probably say that about all sophomore qb's from around the nation. He has made mistakes, and had a couple of bad games. No matter how great they are all qb's have bad games whether they are college or pro. If the greatest qb's of all time can have horrendous performances, then why can't Tommy. If he "had all the tools" would a bad game be acceptable? Would we say; well he had a bad game but that's okay, because he "has all the tools?"

I too am disappointed having 3 losses this year. I can't help but think we should be undefeated to this point. But this continuous barrage on Tommy is a little ridiculous as if someone else were starting, the record would be better. Perhaps, he doesn't have the tools perhaps he never will. Who knows or sure. In the mean time I stand behind our starting qb. I defer to the Coach Kelly to make the decision on who should be on the field, this year and next.

 

[Patulski]

It's ridiculous to compare 2009 Alabama or the 2000 Baltimore Ravens to current or near-future Notre Dame.

And it's ridiculous to conclude a QB's "championship ceiling" prior to his senior year without knowing how he'll develop, along with the rest of the team.