Biden Presidency

[BrownerandFry]

The grownups are back in charge-

Your ability to major in minors is medalworthy.

And you have a real, real, deep issue with women. Go ahead redstate/blue state do YOUR OWN research

about how many of your attacks are on women.......................

real men are not threated by competent women who have positions of power and influence

 

[irishog77]

A few months ago, I considered buying a Tesla. I had never even been in one, let alone driven or ridden one. I had just heard a lot of good things about Teslas, albeit most were simply anecdotal or headlines. Coincidentally, I happened to get about a 40 minute uber ride from a guy driving a Tesla around this time. And the driver was WAY into his Tesla, so was happy to talk about it for the full 40 minutes. I thought, "sweet, now is my chance to get an up close look at one and really learn about the ins and outs of them."

I don't quite remember which model he had, but I know he bought it in '18. This guy was an engineer in real life while doing his uber side hustle. He had broken down the costs of charging per day to $8 (which is more than what I spend in gas, even at Joe's current prices). Plus the money upfront to install the plug. And he gets ~150 miles per charge. The newer generations are getting much better battery life, but it's still not really feasible for any travel (which most Americans either must do for work, or elect to do with their friends and families)...without adding 1-2 hours of charging time for a trip out of town (compared to a 10 minute stop, 1 time for gas on a >500 mile trip).
Throw in the extra hassle of having to be near a plug when you travel, plugging in every day with out fail at home, the crappy features, comfort, and design of the interior (think- Musk is a tech, non-car guy, that designed car interiors and functionality), the $10-$15k I'd have to fork over for a replacement battery, and it looks like I won't be looking at a Tesla for at least another 10 years, when perhaps the cost, functionality, and comfort of them can get close to matching a gas-powered vehicle.
I haven't done an apples to apples comparison of Teslas versus the other EV's out there, but it's still not feasible.

TL;DR we are still quite a few years away from an actual EV revolution where they are a practical replacement for gas vehicles. Sure, well off people can get them, but the masses are a long ways from them being a viable option.

 

[irishog77]

But he's so disingenuous he specifically won't mention or tout Tesla. "Go buy an electric car and invest in "green" energy...but only if it's created with union labor or by people and leaders that agree with our platforms."

It will be interesting to see what the prevailing talking points will be in, say, 2-4 months. Will the media and acolytes double, triple, and quadruple down on the revisionism now being pushed of " it's putin's fault," or will people see through that?

And on cue, the nyt and wapo have now begun with "blaming biden for gas prices and inflation is playing into putin's hands." The nyt "fact checker" said this...in a "fact check."

The undeniable, objective truth is that putin and russia have escalated rising gas prices. Similarly, biden has undeniably and objectively contributed to rising gas prices and inflation. Pointing this out does not make someone "pro russia," "pro putin," nor a "russian agent." But that's the dishonest story we will now get from media and politicians.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Federal government spending by year:

2019: 4.4 trillion
2020: 6.5 trillion
2021: 7.2 trillion
2022: estimate 6 trillion

Covid blew up spending for 2020 and 2021.

 

[Armyirish47]

Covid blew up spending for 2020 and 2021.

That spending must have gotten the non inflationary vaccination then amiright? #JabbinMuhBudget

 

[drayer54]

And on cue, the nyt and wapo have now begun with "blaming biden for gas prices and inflation is playing into putin's hands." The nyt "fact checker" said this...in a "fact check."

The undeniable, objective truth is that putin and russia have escalated rising gas prices. Similarly, biden has undeniably and objectively contributed to rising gas prices and inflation. Pointing this out does not make someone "pro russia," "pro putin," nor a "russian agent." But that's the dishonest story we will now get from media and politicians.

Fact checkers are merely partisan leftists trying to flank the rhetoric of the left-wing talking heads by splitting hairs or flat out lying. Without fact checkers, we wouldn’t know just how privileged Senator Tim Scott’s slave ancestors were.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

And on cue, the nyt and wapo have now begun with "blaming biden for gas prices and inflation is playing into putin's hands." The nyt "fact checker" said this...in a "fact check."

The undeniable, objective truth is that putin and russia have escalated rising gas prices. Similarly, biden has undeniably and objectively contributed to rising gas prices and inflation. Pointing this out does not make someone "pro russia," "pro putin," nor a "russian agent." But that's the dishonest story we will now get from media and politicians.

I’m at the same place. My company is doing an EV pilot program for company cars (I politely declined). They’ll even cover the install the charging station at your home ($3-5K) but the infrastructure isn’t there yet. I think the Chevy EUV gets approx 250 miles per charge which does me no good in a lot of cases. I assume Tesla & GM charging stations are NOT compatible. The only ones I’ve seen when traveling are Tesla charging stations.

Hopefully, there will soon be an option for a backup battery or charger to take on long trips. You make a great point on the battery turnover. Tesla needs to find a way to build that into the cost so you don’t have a $10K charge hovering over your head the entire time you own the car. My understanding (anecdotes from friends who own one) is that the only fluids run through the vehicle is windshield wiper fluid so the rest of the care should run for a long time w/o major repair costs. Even the brake pads are supposedly regenerating material (don’t ask me about the details as I didn’t get that far) so should last longer than combustible engine vehicles.

I think we will get there eventually but it agree we are still a good ways away from EV being the norm. Will GM/Ford/Chrysler/etc start getting subsidies to stop manufacturing combustible engine vehicles? That never gets received well. When we do get off crude (gasoline), how will the government subsidize the billions lost in gas taxes?

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Haven't the Suadis and UAE already pushed back against increasing US oil output? Thought I read that somewhere recently.

Being reliant on the OPEC would be another good inducement to get off crude if the US insists on not drilling more domestically. Being a slave to the cartel is about as un-American as it gets IMO. I’m no expert so there’s probably holes in my suggestion but why not increase crude oil drilling in the US for the time it takes to get EV up to speed so it can seamlessly take over combustible engine vehicles? And frankly, whoever is POTUS at the time needs to be traveling in EV & EUV w/ rare exception. It’s time the folks telling us how we should live (sometimes w/ very good rationale) to lead by example…even if/when it hurts.

 

[NorthDakota]

Your ability to major in minors is medalworthy.

And you have a real, real, deep issue with women. Go ahead redstate/blue state do YOUR OWN research

about how many of your attacks are on women.......................

real men are not threated by competent women who have positions of power and influence

What the fuck are you rambling about now?

 

[NorthDakota]

That spending must have gotten the non inflationary vaccination then amiright? #JabbinMuhBudget

Think about how much worse it would be if Manchin and Sinema didn't step in lol

 

[Armyirish47]

Think about how much worse it would be if Manchin and Sinema didn't step in lol

Would have required a booster shot for sure lol

 

[drayer54]

Glad to see Biden is still working with Russia, Iran, and China.

Biden Keeping Iranian Plot to Kill John Bolton under Wraps to Avoid Derailing Nuclear Deal: Report | National Review

These are our negotiating partners.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Bishop2b5]

MSN

www.msn.com

MSNBC guest host Garrett Haake puzzled as to why Zelenskyy's responses to the Russian invasion have received positive coverage and approval ratings, but Biden's "popular" responses have had little effect on his approval rating.

Said Haake, "President Biden’s not getting a Zelenskyy bounce. And when you look at the polling, it’s kind of fascinating." The MSNBC host noted that while Biden’s policies are "popular," the president has repeatedly received low approval ratings. "Why doesn’t Joe Biden get credit for doing the popular things Joe Biden does?"

This is tone deaf to the nth degree. Honestly, if I'd read this on Babylon Bee, I wouldn't have questioned it being a spoof of MSNBC. Sometimes you read something like this and all you can do is shake your head and say, "JFC! Seriously?"

 

[NorthDakota]

MSN

www.msn.com

MSNBC guest host Garrett Haake puzzled as to why Zelenskyy's responses to the Russian invasion have received positive coverage and approval ratings, but Biden's "popular" responses have had little effect on his approval rating.

Said Haake, "President Biden’s not getting a Zelenskyy bounce. And when you look at the polling, it’s kind of fascinating." The MSNBC host noted that while Biden’s policies are "popular," the president has repeatedly received low approval ratings. "Why doesn’t Joe Biden get credit for doing the popular things Joe Biden does?"

This is tone deaf to the nth degree. Honestly, if I'd read this on Babylon Bee, I wouldn't have questioned it being a spoof of MSNBC. Sometimes you read something like this and all you can do is shake your head and say, "JFC! Seriously?"

"Ukraine got invaded and Joe Biden did things almost any American president would do! Why don't people love him?!" - Generic Libs

 

[Irish#1]

The answer is simple. His WTF's? still outweigh his support for Ukraine.

Glad to see he's getting them more equipment, but it should have been done sooner.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

A few months ago, I considered buying a Tesla. I had never even been in one, let alone driven or ridden one. I had just heard a lot of good things about Teslas, albeit most were simply anecdotal or headlines. Coincidentally, I happened to get about a 40 minute uber ride from a guy driving a Tesla around this time. And the driver was WAY into his Tesla, so was happy to talk about it for the full 40 minutes. I thought, "sweet, now is my chance to get an up close look at one and really learn about the ins and outs of them."

I don't quite remember which model he had, but I know he bought it in '18. This guy was an engineer in real life while doing his uber side hustle. He had broken down the costs of charging per day to $8 (which is more than what I spend in gas, even at Joe's current prices). Plus the money upfront to install the plug. And he gets ~150 miles per charge. The newer generations are getting much better battery life, but it's still not really feasible for any travel (which most Americans either must do for work, or elect to do with their friends and families)...without adding 1-2 hours of charging time for a trip out of town (compared to a 10 minute stop, 1 time for gas on a >500 mile trip).
Throw in the extra hassle of having to be near a plug when you travel, plugging in every day with out fail at home, the crappy features, comfort, and design of the interior (think- Musk is a tech, non-car guy, that designed car interiors and functionality), the $10-$15k I'd have to fork over for a replacement battery, and it looks like I won't be looking at a Tesla for at least another 10 years, when perhaps the cost, functionality, and comfort of them can get close to matching a gas-powered vehicle.
I haven't done an apples to apples comparison of Teslas versus the other EV's out there, but it's still not feasible.

TL;DR we are still quite a few years away from an actual EV revolution where they are a practical replacement for gas vehicles. Sure, well off people can get them, but the masses are a long ways from them being a viable option.

Sorry to put this in the Biden thread but I wanted to respond to this post directly...

A lot the "hassles" you listed are made up in your mind to talk yourself out of getting one. Hence the bolded comment. You didn't make fair comparisons, yet somehow still came to the conclusion that it's not feasible. Why? Some direct points:

• 2022 Model 3 (standard) is currently $47,000. Salty, yes but KBB data puts that right at the average new car price in the US.
• The above mentioned Model 3 gets an EPA estimated 267 miles of range. The 2019 US Census Bureau states average daily commute to be 28 minutes (roughly 16 miles) one way --> about 32 miles per day. Which means most people don't need to charge this vehicle every day. In fact, a conservative estimate puts charging needs at about once per 5 days in this example.
• Charging stations (Tesla and multiple other competitors) are popping up all over the country. Some are free, others not. The Tesla Superchargers are spaced out in a way that it is almost impossible to run out of a charge w/o being able to make it to the next. Tesla's navigation will actually track this for you, taking away the guess-work and anxiety it may cause. Does it add to commuting time? Sure. But charging speeds are increasing rapidly and after 3 to 4 hours in a car, a nice break to stretch your legs, grab food, take a piss, or just rest your brain for 15-30 minutes is usually welcomed on road trips. Note: You are not supposed to charge to 100% on these stops like you would normally "fill up" at a gas station.
• Speaking of road trips, see point 2, as most people don't need to be doing this amount of daily charging. How often do people take long road trips where this level of charge frequency is needed? If the one or two times per year you drive a long ways bothers you, then rent an ICE vehicle for those trips. Keep in mind, what you save in "time" you'll spend in money (rental fee, gas).
• At-home charging is a personal decision based on driver needs. A standard plug (included for free) will suffice, it's just very slow. My Tesla Wall Charger cost me $500, the install was $350. But I drive a ton, so I need a quick charge.
• The aesthetics of the car is purely subjective and you're entitled to that opinion. However, note that the newer versions of these vehicles have gone through considerable upgrades regarding comfort. I view my Model Y as a massive upgrade over my Jetta TDi, a minimal downgrade from my BMW X5 (although the seats are more comfortable, imo), and about on par with my wife's Kia Telluride SX Prestige.
• What specific features of Tesla vehicles are "crappy?" I'd like the opportunity to address them.
• When you do a true comparison for EV vs ICE cost of ownership, you have to account for oil changes, fluids, maintenance, preventative maintenance, tires, brakes, gas etc for the ICE vehicle. EVs have a fraction of these costs (almost none of them). Cost to fill up the tank with gas versus price to charge is entirely dependent on gas prices and your daily commuting. As of March 2022, seems fair to say that the cost of gas versus the cost to charge may have shifted for you, no? A point in your favor, I'll mention: If you don't drive much, then EVs present other costs that might make them a little less favorable and that's the slight increase in insurance premium as well as the yearly EV fee for registration/plates (to account for the lack of gas tax revenue). The average driver in the US, though, will almost always come out ahead with an EV. (When you do your break even analysis or cost analysis, include insurance and registration. It may sway the pendulum for you, specifically.)
• Lastly, battery degradation is a real concern for me, but not to the point of swaying me away from an EV. Tesla has a 7 or 8 year warranty. Their degradation tests have been relatively "decent," I'd say, up to that point. Beyond that, most people are looking to get into a new vehicle anyways. So factor in the cost of buying another vehicle up against the cost of a replacement battery and yet again, the EV will come out ahead.

All of these points make some assumptions about your driving habits, your commute, your budget, where you live, etc. You very well could have done all this research and still come to the same conclusion that the EVs aren't for you (yet). But I feel a lot of the points you made are unsubstantiated. They feel more like "your concerns" versus the reality of what's happening on the road with EVs (I love my Tesla and can personally attest to it being better than any ICE vehicle I've ever owned as it related to every point you tried to make, as I've detailed above). Will there be times I may prefer the old school gas guzzler machine? Yeah, probably. And for those rare trips, I'll rent one.

I personally don't think ICE vehicles will just up and vanish. But as more competition enters the fold, prices should come down a little on new cars (the used car market will grow) and we'll see far more of them on the road. This isn't speculative....it's already happening. I think the EV revolution is upon us.

 

[Rogue219]

Permanent Daylight Savings Time.

Let's Go Brandon (clap clap, clap-clap-clap)

 

[drayer54]

Joe's got his boys back-

 

[Bishop2b5]

The rest of us every time Joe speaks:

 

[Irish#1]

Sorry to put this in the Biden thread but I wanted to respond to this post directly...

A lot the "hassles" you listed are made up in your mind to talk yourself out of getting one. Hence the bolded comment. You didn't make fair comparisons, yet somehow still came to the conclusion that it's not feasible. Why? Some direct points:

• 2022 Model 3 (standard) is currently $47,000. Salty, yes but KBB data puts that right at the average new car price in the US.
• The above mentioned Model 3 gets an EPA estimated 267 miles of range. The 2019 US Census Bureau states average daily commute to be 28 minutes (roughly 16 miles) one way --> about 32 miles per day. Which means most people don't need to charge this vehicle every day. In fact, a conservative estimate puts charging needs at about once per 5 days in this example.
• Charging stations (Tesla and multiple other competitors) are popping up all over the country. Some are free, others not. The Tesla Superchargers are spaced out in a way that it is almost impossible to run out of a charge w/o being able to make it to the next. Tesla's navigation will actually track this for you, taking away the guess-work and anxiety it may cause. Does it add to commuting time? Sure. But charging speeds are increasing rapidly and after 3 to 4 hours in a car, a nice break to stretch your legs, grab food, take a piss, or just rest your brain for 15-30 minutes is usually welcomed on road trips. Note: You are not supposed to charge to 100% on these stops like you would normally "fill up" at a gas station.
• Speaking of road trips, see point 2, as most people don't need to be doing this amount of daily charging. How often do people take long road trips where this level of charge frequency is needed? If the one or two times per year you drive a long ways bothers you, then rent an ICE vehicle for those trips. Keep in mind, what you save in "time" you'll spend in money (rental fee, gas).
• At-home charging is a personal decision based on driver needs. A standard plug (included for free) will suffice, it's just very slow. My Tesla Wall Charger cost me $500, the install was $350. But I drive a ton, so I need a quick charge.
• The aesthetics of the car is purely subjective and you're entitled to that opinion. However, note that the newer versions of these vehicles have gone through considerable upgrades regarding comfort. I view my Model Y as a massive upgrade over my Jetta TDi, a minimal downgrade from my BMW X5 (although the seats are more comfortable, imo), and about on par with my wife's Kia Telluride SX Prestige.
• What specific features of Tesla vehicles are "crappy?" I'd like the opportunity to address them.
• When you do a true comparison for EV vs ICE cost of ownership, you have to account for oil changes, fluids, maintenance, preventative maintenance, tires, brakes, gas etc for the ICE vehicle. EVs have a fraction of these costs (almost none of them). Cost to fill up the tank with gas versus price to charge is entirely dependent on gas prices and your daily commuting. As of March 2022, seems fair to say that the cost of gas versus the cost to charge may have shifted for you, no? A point in your favor, I'll mention: If you don't drive much, then EVs present other costs that might make them a little less favorable and that's the slight increase in insurance premium as well as the yearly EV fee for registration/plates (to account for the lack of gas tax revenue). The average driver in the US, though, will almost always come out ahead with an EV. (When you do your break even analysis or cost analysis, include insurance and registration. It may sway the pendulum for you, specifically.)
• Lastly, battery degradation is a real concern for me, but not to the point of swaying me away from an EV. Tesla has a 7 or 8 year warranty. Their degradation tests have been relatively "decent," I'd say, up to that point. Beyond that, most people are looking to get into a new vehicle anyways. So factor in the cost of buying another vehicle up against the cost of a replacement battery and yet again, the EV will come out ahead.

All of these points make some assumptions about your driving habits, your commute, your budget, where you live, etc. You very well could have done all this research and still come to the same conclusion that the EVs aren't for you (yet). But I feel a lot of the points you made are unsubstantiated. They feel more like "your concerns" versus the reality of what's happening on the road with EVs (I love my Tesla and can personally attest to it being better than any ICE vehicle I've ever owned as it related to every point you tried to make, as I've detailed above). Will there be times I may prefer the old school gas guzzler machine? Yeah, probably. And for those rare trips, I'll rent one.

I personally don't think ICE vehicles will just up and vanish. But as more competition enters the fold, prices should come down a little on new cars (the used car market will grow) and we'll see far more of them on the road. This is speculative....it's already happening. I think the EV revolution is upon us.

Elon said the check is in the mail. lol

 

[Irish#1]

Joe's got his boys back-

Let me count the people I know that have done that Joe. I came up with zero.

Look at his face. He's got brain fog and struggling to find the words.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Joe's got his boys back-

Talk about unfit for office. My God it's so embarrassing. And not the first time.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Let me count the people I know that have done that Joe. I came up with zero.

Look at his face. He's got brain fog and struggling to find the words.

“How dare you criticize a man w/ a speech impediment”

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Sorry to put this in the Biden thread but I wanted to respond to this post directly...

A lot the "hassles" you listed are made up in your mind to talk yourself out of getting one. Hence the bolded comment. You didn't make fair comparisons, yet somehow still came to the conclusion that it's not feasible. Why? Some direct points:

• 2022 Model 3 (standard) is currently $47,000. Salty, yes but KBB data puts that right at the average new car price in the US.
• The above mentioned Model 3 gets an EPA estimated 267 miles of range. The 2019 US Census Bureau states average daily commute to be 28 minutes (roughly 16 miles) one way --> about 32 miles per day. Which means most people don't need to charge this vehicle every day. In fact, a conservative estimate puts charging needs at about once per 5 days in this example.
• Charging stations (Tesla and multiple other competitors) are popping up all over the country. Some are free, others not. The Tesla Superchargers are spaced out in a way that it is almost impossible to run out of a charge w/o being able to make it to the next. Tesla's navigation will actually track this for you, taking away the guess-work and anxiety it may cause. Does it add to commuting time? Sure. But charging speeds are increasing rapidly and after 3 to 4 hours in a car, a nice break to stretch your legs, grab food, take a piss, or just rest your brain for 15-30 minutes is usually welcomed on road trips. Note: You are not supposed to charge to 100% on these stops like you would normally "fill up" at a gas station.
• Speaking of road trips, see point 2, as most people don't need to be doing this amount of daily charging. How often do people take long road trips where this level of charge frequency is needed? If the one or two times per year you drive a long ways bothers you, then rent an ICE vehicle for those trips. Keep in mind, what you save in "time" you'll spend in money (rental fee, gas).
• At-home charging is a personal decision based on driver needs. A standard plug (included for free) will suffice, it's just very slow. My Tesla Wall Charger cost me $500, the install was $350. But I drive a ton, so I need a quick charge.
• The aesthetics of the car is purely subjective and you're entitled to that opinion. However, note that the newer versions of these vehicles have gone through considerable upgrades regarding comfort. I view my Model Y as a massive upgrade over my Jetta TDi, a minimal downgrade from my BMW X5 (although the seats are more comfortable, imo), and about on par with my wife's Kia Telluride SX Prestige.
• What specific features of Tesla vehicles are "crappy?" I'd like the opportunity to address them.
• When you do a true comparison for EV vs ICE cost of ownership, you have to account for oil changes, fluids, maintenance, preventative maintenance, tires, brakes, gas etc for the ICE vehicle. EVs have a fraction of these costs (almost none of them). Cost to fill up the tank with gas versus price to charge is entirely dependent on gas prices and your daily commuting. As of March 2022, seems fair to say that the cost of gas versus the cost to charge may have shifted for you, no? A point in your favor, I'll mention: If you don't drive much, then EVs present other costs that might make them a little less favorable and that's the slight increase in insurance premium as well as the yearly EV fee for registration/plates (to account for the lack of gas tax revenue). The average driver in the US, though, will almost always come out ahead with an EV. (When you do your break even analysis or cost analysis, include insurance and registration. It may sway the pendulum for you, specifically.)
• Lastly, battery degradation is a real concern for me, but not to the point of swaying me away from an EV. Tesla has a 7 or 8 year warranty. Their degradation tests have been relatively "decent," I'd say, up to that point. Beyond that, most people are looking to get into a new vehicle anyways. So factor in the cost of buying another vehicle up against the cost of a replacement battery and yet again, the EV will come out ahead.

All of these points make some assumptions about your driving habits, your commute, your budget, where you live, etc. You very well could have done all this research and still come to the same conclusion that the EVs aren't for you (yet). But I feel a lot of the points you made are unsubstantiated. They feel more like "your concerns" versus the reality of what's happening on the road with EVs (I love my Tesla and can personally attest to it being better than any ICE vehicle I've ever owned as it related to every point you tried to make, as I've detailed above). Will there be times I may prefer the old school gas guzzler machine? Yeah, probably. And for those rare trips, I'll rent one.

I personally don't think ICE vehicles will just up and vanish. But as more competition enters the fold, prices should come down a little on new cars (the used car market will grow) and we'll see far more of them on the road. This isn't speculative....it's already happening. I think the EV revolution is upon us.

Thanks for sharing as I’ve wanted to hear details like this from an actual owner. Would it be fair to say Chevy is 2nd in EV sales? If not, who? More importantly, I can’t recall seeing charging stations for any other model other than Tesla. Are all charging stations compatible to all EV? I suspect they are not but was hoping you could confirm.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my company is offering an EV pilot program for company cars but my situation still seems like a poor fit at this time. For instance, my commute yesterday was 2.5 hours for a round trip of five hours. Sometimes it’s longer. Most times it’s less but in outside sales it’s never a traditional commute like my wife & most Americans enjoy.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Thanks for sharing as I’ve wanted to hear details like this from an actual owner. Would it be fair to say Chevy is 2nd in EV sales? If not, who? More importantly, I can’t recall seeing charging stations for any other model other than Tesla. Are all charging stations compatible to all EV? I suspect they are not but was hoping you could confirm.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my company is offering an EV pilot program for company cars but my situation still seems like a poor fit at this time. For instance, my commute yesterday was 2.5 hours for a round trip of five hours. Sometimes it’s longer. Most times it’s less but in outside sales it’s never a traditional commute like my wife & most Americans enjoy.

Hola ID! I also have a Tesla and can relay that there are a decent amount of charging stations out there besides those branded by Tesla. Tesla can use them with a simple adapter. However, other branded EVs cannot use Tesla chargers. Not sure who is second in EV sales but a little internet research would probably yield an answer. To the best of my knowledge, The non-Tesla charging stations are compatible with all the other EVs. Hope that info is useful.

 

[irishog77]

Sorry to put this in the Biden thread but I wanted to respond to this post directly...

A lot the "hassles" you listed are made up in your mind to talk yourself out of getting one. Hence the bolded comment. You didn't make fair comparisons, yet somehow still came to the conclusion that it's not feasible. Why? Some direct points:

• 2022 Model 3 (standard) is currently $47,000. Salty, yes but KBB data puts that right at the average new car price in the US.
• The above mentioned Model 3 gets an EPA estimated 267 miles of range. The 2019 US Census Bureau states average daily commute to be 28 minutes (roughly 16 miles) one way --> about 32 miles per day. Which means most people don't need to charge this vehicle every day. In fact, a conservative estimate puts charging needs at about once per 5 days in this example.
• Charging stations (Tesla and multiple other competitors) are popping up all over the country. Some are free, others not. The Tesla Superchargers are spaced out in a way that it is almost impossible to run out of a charge w/o being able to make it to the next. Tesla's navigation will actually track this for you, taking away the guess-work and anxiety it may cause. Does it add to commuting time? Sure. But charging speeds are increasing rapidly and after 3 to 4 hours in a car, a nice break to stretch your legs, grab food, take a piss, or just rest your brain for 15-30 minutes is usually welcomed on road trips. Note: You are not supposed to charge to 100% on these stops like you would normally "fill up" at a gas station.
• Speaking of road trips, see point 2, as most people don't need to be doing this amount of daily charging. How often do people take long road trips where this level of charge frequency is needed? If the one or two times per year you drive a long ways bothers you, then rent an ICE vehicle for those trips. Keep in mind, what you save in "time" you'll spend in money (rental fee, gas).
• At-home charging is a personal decision based on driver needs. A standard plug (included for free) will suffice, it's just very slow. My Tesla Wall Charger cost me $500, the install was $350. But I drive a ton, so I need a quick charge.
• The aesthetics of the car is purely subjective and you're entitled to that opinion. However, note that the newer versions of these vehicles have gone through considerable upgrades regarding comfort. I view my Model Y as a massive upgrade over my Jetta TDi, a minimal downgrade from my BMW X5 (although the seats are more comfortable, imo), and about on par with my wife's Kia Telluride SX Prestige.
• What specific features of Tesla vehicles are "crappy?" I'd like the opportunity to address them.
• When you do a true comparison for EV vs ICE cost of ownership, you have to account for oil changes, fluids, maintenance, preventative maintenance, tires, brakes, gas etc for the ICE vehicle. EVs have a fraction of these costs (almost none of them). Cost to fill up the tank with gas versus price to charge is entirely dependent on gas prices and your daily commuting. As of March 2022, seems fair to say that the cost of gas versus the cost to charge may have shifted for you, no? A point in your favor, I'll mention: If you don't drive much, then EVs present other costs that might make them a little less favorable and that's the slight increase in insurance premium as well as the yearly EV fee for registration/plates (to account for the lack of gas tax revenue). The average driver in the US, though, will almost always come out ahead with an EV. (When you do your break even analysis or cost analysis, include insurance and registration. It may sway the pendulum for you, specifically.)
• Lastly, battery degradation is a real concern for me, but not to the point of swaying me away from an EV. Tesla has a 7 or 8 year warranty. Their degradation tests have been relatively "decent," I'd say, up to that point. Beyond that, most people are looking to get into a new vehicle anyways. So factor in the cost of buying another vehicle up against the cost of a replacement battery and yet again, the EV will come out ahead.

All of these points make some assumptions about your driving habits, your commute, your budget, where you live, etc. You very well could have done all this research and still come to the same conclusion that the EVs aren't for you (yet). But I feel a lot of the points you made are unsubstantiated. They feel more like "your concerns" versus the reality of what's happening on the road with EVs (I love my Tesla and can personally attest to it being better than any ICE vehicle I've ever owned as it related to every point you tried to make, as I've detailed above). Will there be times I may prefer the old school gas guzzler machine? Yeah, probably. And for those rare trips, I'll rent one.

I personally don't think ICE vehicles will just up and vanish. But as more competition enters the fold, prices should come down a little on new cars (the used car market will grow) and we'll see far more of them on the road. This isn't speculative....it's already happening. I think the EV revolution is upon us.

Thanks for all the info!

That's a great price for having your plug installed. Did you need any trenching or box work done to add? Due to the age of my house and design of my yard and driveway, I think the charging you described would force me to have like a 40 foot cable running across my driveway and yard. Frankly, I'm just not going to do that. As far as I can tell, this would be true for a Tesla, or for any other EV's. It's encouraging to know that I may not have to charge everyday though, as that estimated $56 may be brought down $10-$20, at least. Now we're getting somewhere!

Good to know the '22 seems to be comparable with other cars as far as amenities and comfort. As I said, my experience was in a '17 or '18 and I would put it more in line with a '07-'12 run-of-the-mill Accord. The $47k is very much so in line with new cars. I do wonder though (again, I haven't priced it out) what the standard model includes? For instance, I know '22 Infinity Q50's start in the 42-44k range (MSRP), but the more realistic MSRP price is 52-60k.

My driving varies from day to day and week and to week. This is a bit of where the rub comes in. I don't go to an office everyday and don't have a standard commute nor drive. Some days and weeks I'm all over town for work and with the kids. Some days I have 4-6 meetings and appointments and there's a decent amount of forethought that goes into making sure each one is met (as well as factoring in delays for my counterpart). I also need to travel (by car) out of town a couple times a month. On one of them, I do a turn-and-burn that ends up taking about 12 hours (rather than spend the night). An EV is not feasible for this one day. I'd have to add the cost of a rental car in 12 times a year and/or add the cost of a hotel room and the extra time. Also, where I live (like I assume many urban areas these days), my supposed 20-30min one way drive sometimes turns into a 1 hour+ drive due to traffic. In short, due to multiple variables and travel, I need to have a high level of certainty about the duration of my charge and drive time capabilities.

I'm completely open to getting an EV and am even more open to saving money. It's still not going to be feasible, for me, for multiple years to come. I do wonder also how the coronavirus may effect some of the EV revolution on society as well, going forward? Obviously many people are returning to their offices, but some may never return or always do a hybrid method of home/office. I think this may spur the EV improvements along, but I really don't know.

Again, thanks for all your insight. It's good info and I know it took some time for you to compose and post the message.

 

[RDU Irish]

Why am I not surprised the Brandon thread has turned in to an EV circle jerk?

Hunter's laptop confirmed as NOT Russian disinformation, btw.

 

[drayer54]

laptop confirmed as NOT Russian disinformation, bt

I have to think everyone knew the laptop and Hunter Biden thing was real, it's just some people don't care. It's easy to not care when your tv news and big tech suppress the story you don't care about and let you stick to the narrative.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Thanks for all the info!

That's a great price for having your plug installed. Did you need any trenching or box work done to add? Due to the age of my house and design of my yard and driveway, I think the charging you described would force me to have like a 40 foot cable running across my driveway and yard. Frankly, I'm just not going to do that. As far as I can tell, this would be true for a Tesla, or for any other EV's. It's encouraging to know that I may not have to charge everyday though, as that estimated $56 may be brought down $10-$20, at least. Now we're getting somewhere!

Good to know the '22 seems to be comparable with other cars as far as amenities and comfort. As I said, my experience was in a '17 or '18 and I would put it more in line with a '07-'12 run-of-the-mill Accord. The $47k is very much so in line with new cars. I do wonder though (again, I haven't priced it out) what the standard model includes? For instance, I know '22 Infinity Q50's start in the 42-44k range (MSRP), but the more realistic MSRP price is 52-60k.

My driving varies from day to day and week and to week. This is a bit of where the rub comes in. I don't go to an office everyday and don't have a standard commute nor drive. Some days and weeks I'm all over town for work and with the kids. Some days I have 4-6 meetings and appointments and there's a decent amount of forethought that goes into making sure each one is met (as well as factoring in delays for my counterpart). I also need to travel (by car) out of town a couple times a month. On one of them, I do a turn-and-burn that ends up taking about 12 hours (rather than spend the night). An EV is not feasible for this one day. I'd have to add the cost of a rental car in 12 times a year and/or add the cost of a hotel room and the extra time. Also, where I live (like I assume many urban areas these days), my supposed 20-30min one way drive sometimes turns into a 1 hour+ drive due to traffic. In short, due to multiple variables and travel, I need to have a high level of certainty about the duration of my charge and drive time capabilities.

I'm completely open to getting an EV and am even more open to saving money. It's still not going to be feasible, for me, for multiple years to come. I do wonder also how the coronavirus may effect some of the EV revolution on society as well, going forward? Obviously many people are returning to their offices, but some may never return or always do a hybrid method of home/office. I think this may spur the EV improvements along, but I really don't know.

Again, thanks for all your insight. It's good info and I know it took some time for you to compose and post the message.

Gonna take this convo to the Tesla Model 3 thread. Don't need RDU's panties wadded this early in the week: Tesla's Revolutionary Model 3

 

[ab2cmiller]

I have to think everyone knew the laptop and Hunter Biden thing was real, it's just some people don't care. It's easy to not care when your tv news and big tech suppress the story you don't care about and let you stick to the narrative.

Hell no. It's not that they didn't care. They cared too much. They made a choice to bury a story because it would hurt the chances of their party of preference. There was literally nothing from most media companies on this story.

People claimed they feared a tyrannical President Trump. I guess I get that. At least we had press that would hold him accountable if he really did anything tyrannical.

What I fear is that a huge majority a press that does the bidding of a certain party. You want to talk about tyranny? There is a substantially larger chance of that happening from a Democratic President. Not because a Democrat is any more tyrannical than a Republican, but because you have a large swath of media that will do whatever it takes to make sure that the person they side with doesn't look bad. You control the press, you control the message, you control the minds.

Thank God we have unbiased "fact checkers" that we can rely on.