Biden Presidency

ulukinatme

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I legitimately think it’s weird when people act like Biden can wave a magic wand to stop Russia (or China or anyone) from invading a neighbor.
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I'm just here for the memes really, but you have a point. There's a very real chance that China will see this though and decide they have nothing really to fear if they move on Taiwan.
 

MacIrish75

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Images show tanks moving into Ukraine over the last few hours, CNN has been reporting on it. Biden has promised even stronger sanctions than the ones he threatened earlier today. Yeah, cause that really deterred Putin earlier.
What exactly do you propose?

I’m only 34, so I was barely alive at the end of the Cold War, but I have studied history. If anyone thought that we’d make it 100 years before Russia tried to put some pieces of the former USSR back together, then I’ve got a beautiful piece of beachfront property in Tucson for you to look at. When you create arbitrary (and disputed) borders over strategic pieces of land, this is bound to happen. And it does happen—frequently. But, it doesn’t normally happen involving a global behemoth.

Practicing isolationism isn’t feasible at this point as America has been far too willing to interject in global disputes throughout our history. But, in this case, we need to remain a part of a coalition with NATO, EU, and UN and align with them on a response instead of letting JB try and gunsling this one himself.

We all know what the step after sanctions is, and I don’t think that’s palatable to anyone.
 

Irish#1

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I legitimately think it’s weird when people act like Biden can wave a magic wand to stop Russia (or China or anyone) from invading a neighbor. Any country with nukes can do whatever they want to any country without nukes. They only refrain from it because of self-interest.

Meanwhile, the former President and Tucker Carlson are literally celebrating this attack and calling Putin a “genius” for how he is doing it. There is massive cognitive dissonance between “this never would’ve happened if…” and “wow what a great move by Putin!” It’s honestly just so fucking weird that we’re living in a timeline where the de facto leader of half of Americans is running PR for a Soviet dictator trying to gobble up territory. Bring back Reagan, please.
Trump has a way of making statements without clarification. I think what Trump meant was that if he were Putin, this is what he would do or if grabbing Ukraine is the objective this is how he would do it. Unless I missed it, I don't recall him saying he supported the actual invasion. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Whether one likes it or not, it appears Trump's relationship with Putin was keeping him at bay.

Reagan and Kissinger all day long.
 
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Irish#1

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What exactly do you propose?

I’m only 34, so I was barely alive at the end of the Cold War, but I have studied history. If anyone thought that we’d make it 100 years before Russia tried to put some pieces of the former USSR back together, then I’ve got a beautiful piece of beachfront property in Tucson for you to look at. When you create arbitrary (and disputed) borders over strategic pieces of land, this is bound to happen. And it does happen—frequently. But, it doesn’t normally happen involving a global behemoth.

Practicing isolationism isn’t feasible at this point as America has been far too willing to interject in global disputes throughout our history. But, in this case, we need to remain a part of a coalition with NATO, EU, and UN and align with them on a response instead of letting JB try and gunsling this one himself.

We all know what the step after sanctions is, and I don’t think that’s palatable to anyone.
So far it looks like NATO countries and the UN are active participants, so this isn't the U.S. going at it alone. Even if it raises prices, I'm all for the U.S., UN and NATO shutting off Russia's access to everything. Russia needs another revolution.
 

RDU Irish

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Trump has a way of making statements without clarification. I think what Trump meant was that if he were Putin, this is what he would do or if grabbing Ukraine is the objective this is how he would do it. Unless I missed it, I don't recall him saying he supported the actual invasion. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Whether one likes it or not, it appears Trump's relationship with Putin was keeping him at bay.

Reagan and Kissinger all day long.
It was part of a one hour interview that SHOCKINGLY had the media goofs jump on a sound bite they could most easily take out of context to label him a Russian asset. Rinse and repeat with half the country gobbling up the bait - hook, line and sinker. First thing Biden did in office - squash Keystone and thumbs up Nordstream.... but nothing could have been done! Amazingly, $100 oil prices lead to the oil oligarch feeling his oats, the last time that happened was under Obama when oil was over $100/barrel.

NATO has been completely neutered by European dependence on Russian energy and it was 100% predictable. Yet here we are. Drill here, drill now and build out infrastructure to supply the world (LNG terminals and ships). Push global oil/gas prices down and watch Russia STFU. Pretending we can put soybeans and corn in our fuel tank to save the climate is a fools errand.
 
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Irish#1

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Interesting way of framing the comments made by DJT. Of course, hrrr durrrr Brandon,

The major flaw in that statement and why it's not a fair comparison? Clinton didn't have a relationship with Bin Laden.
 

Irish#1

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He didn't fear Trump either. He just liked him...
He may not have feared him, but I think at a minimum he wasn't sure that Trump wouldn't respond with something more than a few sanctions on rich Russians. He saw how Donnie never waited to get approval from the House or Senate.
 

ulukinatme

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Lap dogs usually don't put sanctions on their master's pipelines, but I'm just thinking out loud here. We know that Putin didn't fear reprisal from Obama or Biden based on his actions. He may have feared Trump, they may have agreed to diplomacy. I don't think Ukraine cares right now, either way I'm sure they'd prefer if Trump would have remained in charge
 

irishog77

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We're on the verge of russia and china taking on much of the west. My money is on that coalition. The west will be too preoccupied and focused with what pronouns to use, neutered by powering a war with solar and wind, and waiting on environmental impact studies to see what impact battles will have on random snails.
Former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on BBC Arabic: The Ukraine Crisis Could Distract the World from the Climate Crisis While Having Massive Emissions Consequences
 

Irish#1

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Correct, Clinton wanted Bin Laden dead and wasn't his lapdog.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

So we compare the leader of a country to a radical terrorist that is without a country and will blindly kill thousands of innocent people? At least Putin has discussed the issues with other leaders of their countries.
 

TorontoGold

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Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

So we compare the leader of a country to a radical terrorist that is without a country and will blindly kill thousands of innocent people? At least Putin has discussed the issues with other leaders of their countries.

That sentiment shouldn't be shared with a brutal dictator.

Yeah, Putin isn't someone you ever have to give credit to. He is beyond reproach. Putin is a radical dictator who should never be praised. Didn't think this was going to be a both sides type of thing but here we are.
 

irishog77

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That sentiment shouldn't be shared with a brutal dictator.

Yeah, Putin isn't someone you ever have to give credit to. He is beyond reproach. Putin is a radical dictator who should never be praised. Didn't think this was going to be a both sides type of thing but here we are.
It isn't and doesn't have to be.

Sometimes facts and analyses can be just that. To date, putin has outplayed biden and nato. It doesn't mean he's right in doing so and doesn't mean he's a good guy.
 

Armyirish47

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It isn't and doesn't have to be.

Sometimes facts and analyses can be just that. To date, putin has outplayed biden and nato. It doesn't mean he's right in doing so and doesn't mean he's a good guy.


What facts and analyses could have determined who has the outplay yet?
 

MacIrish75

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It isn't and doesn't have to be.

Sometimes facts and analyses can be just that. To date, putin has outplayed biden and nato. It doesn't mean he's right in doing so and doesn't mean he's a good guy.
4:25 to go, second quarter.

2022 PlayStation Fiesta Bowl.

Notre Dame had outplayed Gundy and OSU.

Maybe not wise to rush to judgement on who has outplayed or outdueled who so close to the first salvo. Might be wise to wait at least 24 hours. Sanctions aren’t felt immediately.
 

irishog77

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What facts and analyses could have determined who has the outplay yet?
Biden and nato were attempting to stop an invasion. It didn't work. Biden admitted he predicted every move putin would make, yet he was unable to stop him from making the moves...he knew he was going to make. Biden just said he'll revisit the sanctions in a month. Meaning he doesn't know if they'll work.

Look, none of this means russia and/or putin will ultimately prevail here. But so far they have done exactly what they want. Using a sports analogy, if a team is able to execute their game plan flawlessly, and the opponents moves aren't stopping them, then they are outplaying their opponent.

Barring the strategy that biden and nato actually wanted putin and russia to invade another nation (an ally one, at that), then unleash their responses, then they are being outplayed. And that would be a rather peculiar strategy, involving lots of loss of blood, life, and money. There's a lot of time left on the clock though.
 

irishog77

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4:25 to go, second quarter.

2022 PlayStation Fiesta Bowl.

Notre Dame had outplayed Gundy and OSU.

Maybe not wise to rush to judgement on who has outplayed or outdueled who so close to the first salvo. Might be wise to wait at least 24 hours. Sanctions aren’t felt immediately.
No, I'm not declaring anybody a winner yet. But just as it was clear, objectively, that ND outplayed osu early, it's objectively clear that russia has been outplaying us and nato.

And just like gundy was correct to second guess his strategies, I hope biden is second guessing some of his, and altering a better course.
 

MacIrish75

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No, I'm not declaring anybody a winner yet. But just as it was clear, objectively, that ND outplayed osu early, it's objectively clear that russia has been outplaying us and nato.

And just like gundy was correct to second guess his strategies, I hope biden is second guessing some of his, and altering a better course.
That’s fair.
 

TorontoGold

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It isn't and doesn't have to be.

Sometimes facts and analyses can be just that. To date, putin has outplayed biden and nato. It doesn't mean he's right in doing so and doesn't mean he's a good guy.
The point is you don't gleefully put out comments that support a dictator, that doesn't impact what Biden has/hasn't done. You can make arguments on what Biden has been ineffective with, while not trumpeting Russian talking points. Destabilizing your own country because you don't like the guy who beat you is not something that should be defended.

Your points about Biden being outplayed are fair to make. Trump's comments should be condemned by everyone.
 

Armyirish47

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Biden and nato were attempting to stop an invasion. It didn't work. Biden admitted he predicted every move putin would make, yet he was unable to stop him from making the moves...he knew he was going to make. Biden just said he'll revisit the sanctions in a month. Meaning he doesn't know if they'll work.

Look, none of this means russia and/or putin will ultimately prevail here. But so far they have done exactly what they want. Using a sports analogy, if a team is able to execute their game plan flawlessly, and the opponents moves aren't stopping them, then they are outplaying their opponent.

Barring the strategy that biden and nato actually wanted putin and russia to invade another nation (an ally one, at that), then unleash their responses, then they are being outplayed. And that would be a rather peculiar strategy, involving lots of loss of blood, life, and money. There's a lot of time left on the clock though.


What course of action would have stopped an invasion? Accurately predicting someone's actions and not stopping them doesn't mean they outplayed you, it just means they are predictable.

We still don't know exactly what Putin wants, so how could we possibly know if he is executing his game plan flawlessly or is in fact being stymied by his opponents? Using a sports analogy, if a team is allowed to run the ball between the 20s they may gain many yards and look super impressive, but that doesn't mean they can score enough to win. Hellooooooooo Navy!
 

irishog77

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What course of action would have stopped an invasion? Accurately predicting someone's actions and not stopping them doesn't mean they outplayed you, it just means they are predictable.

We still don't know exactly what Putin wants, so how could we possibly know if he is executing his game plan flawlessly or is in fact being stymied by his opponents? Using a sports analogy, if a team is allowed to run the ball between the 20s they may gain many yards and look super impressive, but that doesn't mean they can score enough to win. Hellooooooooo Navy!
Move the goalposts much? Now I don’t have to only give analyses of how we’re being outplayed, but then have to go back months further to provide further analysis. Got it. How about before I do that, you go ahead and provide some facts and analyses that that demonstrate biden and nato are outplaying putin and russia.

Further, please expand on that belief that "accurately predicting someone's actions and not stopping them doesn't mean they outplayed you, it just means they are predictable." If we're keeping the football analogies going, ND was entirely predictable in the 2012 bcs Championship Game. The result? A smart, well-planned and executed game plan, brought about by the best in the business resulted in this:
BCS Championship - Notre Dame vs Alabama Box Score, January 7, 2013 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
I bring this up because, similarly, the U.S. SHOULD be alabama here, ya know, the best and brightest in the defense, security, and intelligence services. Is it an apples to apples comparison? Obviously not. But your cop-out is lame.

Finally, putin and russia may not score enough to win. But so far, they are the only ones scoring. So while only allowing your opponents to run between the 20's and allowing them to score FG's can be a winning strategy, it is, in fact, only a winning strategy if you yourselves are scoring FG's or TD's yourself. Please, kindly, point out all of our scores.

Look, I am measured and cautious by nature. I like to see how things unfold and gain as much knowledge as possible before acting or reacting. I advise others to take this approach rather than adopt an emotional or irrational course of action. This is entirely different for 2 reasons though. First, biden is on the heels of a complete and total disaster in his Afghanistan withdrawal, his rejection of the findings of thousands and thousands of hours and pages of the AAR, the recent reports that the military has already spent millions of man-hours and hundreds of millions of dollars on discussing and implementing crt (not to mention the hopefully upcoming reports on the military investigating and rooting out the supposed infiltration of our military by neo-nazis/separitists. And these reports will be disastrous), and the statements from his intelligence team that said the sanctions were supposed to deter an invasion, yet biden himself claiming they weren't. So it's not like biden has built up any cache of even being competent, let alone being effective.
Second, there is a clock on all this. Is it enough to drive putin and russia out Ukraine in 2-6 years? How many people need to die, how much money must we and other nations spend, and how much extra should we all pay in inflation and opportunity costs before this ends? This isn't a rhetorical question. Truly, how many lives and dollars is it worth to you see this stopped?
 

irishog77

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The point is you don't gleefully put out comments that support a dictator, that doesn't impact what Biden has/hasn't done. You can make arguments on what Biden has been ineffective with, while not trumpeting Russian talking points. Destabilizing your own country because you don't like the guy who beat you is not something that should be defended.

Your points about Biden being outplayed are fair to make. Trump's comments should be condemned by everyone.
Fair enough and point taken.

Besides his inability to not tweet, trump's other achilles heel seems to be having a gift/curse of often using not just a poor word, but an ultimatum, line-in-the-sand, or definitive type of word. Like here he said, "genius." No. First of all, there was nothing "genius" about putin's strategy. Somebody with a 7th-grade education could easily decide to do what putin did. Was it strategic, easy, and even smart? Sure. But trump had to go and say "genius." Which he should, rightfully, be ridiculed for.
 

Armyirish47

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Move the goalposts much? Now I don’t have to only give analyses of how we’re being outplayed, but then have to go back months further to provide further analysis. Got it. How about before I do that, you go ahead and provide some facts and analyses that that demonstrate biden and nato are outplaying putin and russia.

Further, please expand on that belief that "accurately predicting someone's actions and not stopping them doesn't mean they outplayed you, it just means they are predictable." If we're keeping the football analogies going, ND was entirely predictable in the 2012 bcs Championship Game. The result? A smart, well-planned and executed game plan, brought about by the best in the business resulted in this:
BCS Championship - Notre Dame vs Alabama Box Score, January 7, 2013 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
I bring this up because, similarly, the U.S. SHOULD be alabama here, ya know, the best and brightest in the defense, security, and intelligence services. Is it an apples to apples comparison? Obviously not. But your cop-out is lame.

Finally, putin and russia may not score enough to win. But so far, they are the only ones scoring. So while only allowing your opponents to run between the 20's and allowing them to score FG's can be a winning strategy, it is, in fact, only a winning strategy if you yourselves are scoring FG's or TD's yourself. Please, kindly, point out all of our scores.

Look, I am measured and cautious by nature. I like to see how things unfold and gain as much knowledge as possible before acting or reacting. I advise others to take this approach rather than adopt an emotional or irrational course of action. This is entirely different for 2 reasons though. First, biden is on the heels of a complete and total disaster in his Afghanistan withdrawal, his rejection of the findings of thousands and thousands of hours and pages of the AAR, the recent reports that the military has already spent millions of man-hours and hundreds of millions of dollars on discussing and implementing crt (not to mention the hopefully upcoming reports on the military investigating and rooting out the supposed infiltration of our military by neo-nazis/separitists. And these reports will be disastrous), and the statements from his intelligence team that said the sanctions were supposed to deter an invasion, yet biden himself claiming they weren't. So it's not like biden has built up any cache of even being competent, let alone being effective.
Second, there is a clock on all this. Is it enough to drive putin and russia out Ukraine in 2-6 years? How many people need to die, how much money must we and other nations spend, and how much extra should we all pay in inflation and opportunity costs before this ends? This isn't a rhetorical question. Truly, how many lives and dollars is it worth to you see this stopped?


Lol you were the one who started with the facts and analysis talk, I was just asking for some of either. You responded with talk of trying to stop an invasion so why wouldn't I further ask how that would have been accomplished? Who is toting goalposts around?

If I can accurately predict your actions, then I can plan accordingly. And once you have played your hand, in the exact manner that was expected I can then be prepared to take advantage of what's next. So let's say you are a young gun QB led team in the Super Bowl, and you are executing your offense more quickly than you have all year to solid success, but it looks about the same. So the defense makes the expected adjustment during the game to walk up 5, but only bring 4 and suddenly the offense can't accomplish anything. That frees up the real power players to do work. That's right, we are Aaron Donald now. Possibly. Maybe you prefer Cooper Kupp. Sports analogies and fruit yay!!!! Your "analysis" that the US isn't still Alabama at this point is....(don't say lame, don't say lame, don't say lame)....interesting? Hasty? Unfounded? I dunno, definitely not lame. (nailed it)

Our scores could be 1. so far stopped Nord Stream 2 which was a US policy goal for years, B. the world's largest gas station has lost untold amounts of equipment and troops to so far take over territory they already virtually held, III. there is a pretty clear world view including inside Russia of who the bad guys are, and Quatro: the Klitschko brothers may actually be the Chuck Norrises we were promised.

I agree that we should be measured and cautious by nature, which is exactly why I asked what the facts and analysis were to determine an outplay already was. I'm not sure how those other issues you bring up have anything to do with either other than coloring the hypothetical analysis.

I honestly don't even know how to respond to your second point. I'm not advocating anything, I'm just trying to figure out why some random dude I don't know on a message board about sports has already decided an outcome and at least up to now a victor. Do you have an answer in mind to your question? If this has become too sensitive or I have touched a nerve that was not my intention, and I would certainly be open to further discussion via PM.
 

Irish#1

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The point is you don't gleefully put out comments that support a dictator, that doesn't impact what Biden has/hasn't done. You can make arguments on what Biden has been ineffective with, while not trumpeting Russian talking points. Destabilizing your own country because you don't like the guy who beat you is not something that should be defended.

Your points about Biden being outplayed are fair to make. Trump's comments should be condemned by everyone.
He didn't support Putin. He simply said the actions he took were brilliant. Using irishog77's analogy, OSU's strategy in the second half was brilliant. Does that mean I support OSU or are a fan of theirs?

Trumps delivery of that statement was typical Trump. Much like the UV light or bleach comments, he could have said those better, but he didn't and people want to take them out of context. Trump needs to keep his mouth shut, but his ego wins out over his brain way too often.
 
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