Ball State Post-Game Thread

[ickythump1225]

Also, Kelly is going to keep playing Wimbush. He's your only shot of getting to the playoffs. Get used to it.

We keep saying this, at this point it's only true because everyone says it.

 

[Luckylucci]

Offensive Line is bad. That is all

Yep, wasn’t all on Wimbush. They were really bad, relative to the opponent.

 

[Irish YJ]

The thing is... they didn't hold up. There is no way to look at their failures in the second half and say they "held up"... they got throttled the entire second half, and it almost let Michigan come back.

ND beat Michigan despite an unbelievably poor performance from the OL in the 2nd half. The first half they were good enough. So in 8 quarters of football, there are 6 bad ones and 2 OK ones.

Like you said, we need larger sample size, but it's getting close to time to push the panic button.

Not saying it's all on the OL, or all on BW... but I think more and more... we beat scUM by lucky catches in the first half, and lucky penalties that kept drives going...

 

[TheRealLynch51]

Painful shit to watch. Execution on offense was absolutely piss poor in all facets. Hopefully this wakes the boys the fuck up.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

The thing is... they didn't hold up. There is no way to look at their failures in the second half and say they "held up"... they got throttled the entire second half, and it almost let Michigan come back.

ND beat Michigan despite an unbelievably poor performance from the OL in the 2nd half. The first half they were good enough. So in 8 quarters of football, there are 6 bad ones and 2 OK ones.

Like you said, we need larger sample size, but it's getting close to time to push the panic button.

I mean, I hear you...but we're 2 and 0, and beat a very solid Michigan team last week. They'll get better. There's a lot of youth there, and they just don't have the in-game reps needed to be consistent at this point. Definitely need a larger sample size. We haven't even lost a game and people are jumping off of buildings into traffic haha

 

[ozzman]

I wonder how the game would've been different had the gameplan let bw run from the beginning...

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[Luckylucci]

coaches took the week off and gave the fan base the finger.

any non megalomaniac coach plays Book

Oline has no grit but to their defense they have no idea how to do their jobs with Wimbush out there.

I would love to see the offense with Book and Dex

Defense is awesome overall, but a few players took the week off.
(Tillery)

Doerer wtf? special teams remain a trainwreck

this was a terrible effort by coaches and a few players

That’s just now what happened. They were missing blocks, slow on pulls, and not able to execute remedially stuff. The QB had nothing to do with Kraemer’s struggles pulling, or Mustipher getting owned by the MLB, or Liam not being able to sustain a block on a called QB keeper for even 1 second. None are QB related.

 

[Irishman77]

That’s just now what happened. They were missing blocks, slow on pulls, and not able to execute remedially stuff. The QB had nothing to do with Kraemer’s struggles pulling, or Mustipher getting owned by the MLB, or Liam not being able to sustain a block on a called QB keeper for even 1 second. None are QB related.

I agree Lucci...it was a shit show

we need a better distributor of the football with this O line

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Is anyone opposed to just welcoming the future of ND Football (5 star Phil)? I mean, Clemson plays Trevor Lawrence, and I believe he would have success, at least to the level we're currently experiencing, if not moreso. Just an idea.

 

[dang227]

I don’t know where to begin but like everyone else said, the OL looked horrible. Hainsey looks like the exact same player as last year. No improvement whatsoever. Wimbush is the same. No improvement whatsoever. Stares down receivers, cant run the zone read, wont work through his progressions and isn’t accurate. Is it him or really poor coaching. I believe it is a little of both. How can he be the best a ND has to offer? Defense was okay but a game like today will wear them down over time. Tranquil is largely nonexistent unless he is blitzing. We lose contain on the QB entirely too much in the passing game. Other then Love , our corners look average at best. It is good to see Elliott making plays. Games like these are a staple of the Kelly era. They consistently play down to their competition. I thought he might be able to get them going after half but nope, same shit as the 1st half. That is really worrisome. If they play like this next week, they will los at home to a bad Vandy team. Unfortunately, I am worried about my season prediction of 5 losses.


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[ulukinatme]

We should have thrown money at Warriner when he became available again, rather than let him go to Michigan. Their OL will be good once he's gotten more time with them. Say what you want about Warriner's recruiting or lack thereof, he is one of the better OL coaches after the greatest that we lost last year.

 

[anarin]

That’s just now what happened. They were missing blocks, slow on pulls, and not able to execute remedially stuff. The QB had nothing to do with Kraemer’s struggles pulling, or Mustipher getting owned by the MLB, or Liam not being able to sustain a block on a called QB keeper for even 1 second. None are QB related.

And on the flipside the oline had nothing to do with misreads , terrible throws and interceptions (minus 1). You seem to have an issue grasping that the qb is responsible for making the right read.

Was the oline good? Nope . was Wimbush good? Nope. Stop trying to push your opinion across like it's gospel because you refuse to accept Wimbush isn't playing even average.

 

[Luckylucci]

I agree Lucci...it was a shit show

we need a better distributor of the football with this O line

Huh? Some of those were runs plays.

 

[BeatSC]

Enough will be said about BW and o-line, so I will focus my ire elsewhere:

RBs are not up to snuff. Armstrong is in over his head (understandably), and TJJ is meh at best. I hope and pray Dexter is what everyone thinks he is, and is ready to rock and roll for Stanford.


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My thoughts exactly! Jafar is a good pass catcher and f you give him a nice hole he is ok but we need Dexter to be all he can be.

 

[Irishnuke]

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Also, Kelly is going to keep playing Wimbush. He's your only shot of getting to the playoffs. Get used to it.

Which is what he should do.
However when Brandon is playing sloppy he should be punished.
I would have sat him after the second int and gave Book a series or two.

 

[Irishman77]

Huh? Some of those were runs plays.

I was very critical of the O line too today.. In one of my posts I said Kraemer blocks like a 90 year old man Fuuks with a hangover.

I get it, but in college football the difference is QB play. Wimbush sucks

 

[Luckylucci]

And on the flipside the oline had nothing to do with misreads , terrible throws and interceptions (minus 1). You seem to have an issue grasping that the qb is responsible for making the right read.

Was the oline good? Nope . was Wimbush good? Nope. Stop trying to push your opinion across like it's gospel because you refuse to accept Wimbush isn't playing even average.

Nobody said Wimbush was good. You were saying because Wimbush wasn’t good we should bench him. I said, that’d be an issue because then we’d be benching a lot of other players as well. And, the OL has a significant impact on how a QB reads a defense. That’s literslly the point. Read progression is based on time to get through the reads. If you don’t have that time, you won’t be able to complete the process.

This also includes the run game. Wimbush put us in bad situations, but so did blown blocks in the run game. At times early downs were a disaster

 

[Irishnuke]

 

[BabyIrish]

Both the OL and QB played poor today.
Not sure why the coaches decided not to let Brandon use his legs but that was the clear plan. Wimbush has terrible vision. There were a ton of plays where tight ends and wide receivers were running free. Should have been an easy victory.
It was clear the team was flat and had no energy. Hopefully it comes back next week.

 

[Henges24]

Another game we played down to our competition. Nothing new seeing as an ND fan. Not sure why it always happens. Give Wimbush a short leash next week because this is a game ND loses if we play like that O did today.

 

[Greenore]

I'm a nobody... played a lot of football but never coached or analyzed. I was undisciplined and for the most part sucked because of my bad habits... plus, from Canada. No need to elaborate further.

From the first time I watched Brandon Wimbush's High School film I knew he was special. Great legs and the most awesome arm I had ever seen (admittedly I have only seen a few in the past 5-7 years). The great boost in his stock was that he was going to get to play behind Deshone for a few years. I thought they were very similar in potential. As we learned a few... years ago, that was not to be.

I don't ever want to appear to throw an ND player under the bus or dismiss their abilities... ever. For a large part I liked Joe Schmidt and supported his story, but there comes a time when reality or the team schedule and success must be carefully considered.

Hesitantly, I am at that point with Brandon. In my honest opinion (as a neophyte) he just lacks the confidence and/or decision making of a leader with his experience. I was hoping to be so wrong this year and especially during this latest Ball State game but I am equally disappointed and scared. I really wish I did not have these feelings.

My hope is that Book gets the call against Vandy next week. If that works, I hope to see Phil. I'm guessing it's too late for Avery. I think Wimbush is a brilliant young man and I hope he graduates and gets everything he wants. He's a great athlete too... maybe the best of the individuals I have mentioned. My opinion only, but I just think the challenges of a D1 QB, especially ND, are just too much for him.

Not a slight against BW at all, that job description would likely haunt 98% of all athletes applying.

I think it might be time to invest a lot more early season time in Book, followed by Wimbush and if successful, Phil.

It really hurts me to write this as I expected to see a monumental turnaround in BW's play this year. Great athlete, but had a tough day with the pass reading and accuracy today. Love you BW but times are tough and I only want the best for the team. And I admit right up front, I may be wrong about everything.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

P.S. - I've had a couple beers and am feeling bold.

 

[irishff1014]

The o-line appears to be coaching. The guys that have played before look like they are going backwards.

In order for Wimbush to be effective you have to have designed runs for him. It slows the D-line down and most teams take a LB to spy him. When you don't do that you get a below average QB in the pocket. HE makes bone Headed throws in the first half Boykin was WIDE open and still barley kept his toes in bounds for the catch. Again Coaching and Game plan

The special teams is awful Kelly keeps saying they need to improve and guess what they don't.

The D-line man is playing lights out.

The safety play is the best in the Kelly era probably.

Wr's have been ok.

We need Dexter our Rb's are nothing special.

We are going to struggle against Va Tech,Stanford,Vanderbilt,FSU,USC.

 

[Bubbles]

Rough one.....next few weeks will be very telling.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm a nobody... played a lot of football but never coached or analyzed. I was undisciplined and for the most part sucked because of my bad habits... plus, from Canada. No need to elaborate further.

From the first time I watched Brandon Wimbush's High School film I knew he was special. Great legs and the most awesome arm I had ever seen (admittedly I have only seen a few in the past 5-7 years). The great boost in his stock was that he was going to get to play behind Deshone for a few years. I thought they were very similar in potential. As we learned a few... years ago, that was not to be.

I don't ever want to appear to throw an ND player under the bus or dismiss their abilities... ever. For a large part I liked Joe Schmidt and supported his story, but there comes a time when reality or the team schedule and success must be carefully considered.

Hesitantly, I am at that point with Brandon. In my honest opinion (as a neophyte) he just lacks the confidence and/or decision making of a leader with his experience. I was hoping to be so wrong this year and especially during this latest Ball State game but I am equally disappointed and scared. I really wish I did not have these feelings.

My hope is that Book gets the call against Vandy next week. If that works, I hope to see Phil. I'm guessing it's too late for Avery. I think Wimbush is a brilliant young man and I hope he graduates and gets everything he wants. He's a great athlete too... maybe the best of the individuals I have mentioned. My opinion only, but I just think the challenges of a D1 QB, especially ND, are just too much for him.

Not a slight against BW at all, that job description would likely haunt 98% of all athletes applying.

I think it might be time to invest a lot more early season time in Book, followed by Wimbush and if successful, Phil.

It really hurts me to write this as I expected to see a monumental turnaround in BW's play this year. Great athlete, but had a tough day with the pass reading and accuracy today. Love you BW but times are tough and I only want the best for the team. And I admit right up front, I may be wrong about everything.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

P.S. - I've had a couple beers and am feeling bold.

you're not a nobody.. you're just honest. people can agree or disagree. i was a BW homer when he committed. not so much now. i'm torn as his legs are awesome. i also know you don't have to have legs if you're an accurate passer to win big.... i hate he hasn't improved. i really do. but i'm not going to write book off because he doesn't have legs like BW either..

 

[BeatSC]

I'm a nobody... played a lot of football but never coached or analyzed. I was undisciplined and for the most part sucked because of my bad habits... plus, from Canada. No need to elaborate further.

From the first time I watched Brandon Wimbush's High School film I knew he was special. Great legs and the most awesome arm I had ever seen (admittedly I have only seen a few in the past 5-7 years). The great boost in his stock was that he was going to get to play behind Deshone for a few years. I thought they were very similar in potential. As we learned a few... years ago, that was not to be.

I don't ever want to appear to throw an ND player under the bus or dismiss their abilities... ever. For a large part I liked Joe Schmidt and supported his story, but there comes a time when reality or the team schedule and success must be carefully considered.

Hesitantly, I am at that point with Brandon. In my honest opinion (as a neophyte) he just lacks the confidence and/or decision making of a leader with his experience. I was hoping to be so wrong this year and especially during this latest Ball State game but I am equally disappointed and scared. I really wish I did not have these feelings.

My hope is that Book gets the call against Vandy next week. If that works, I hope to see Phil. I'm guessing it's too late for Avery. I think Wimbush is a brilliant young man and I hope he graduates and gets everything he wants. He's a great athlete too... maybe the best of the individuals I have mentioned. My opinion only, but I just think the challenges of a D1 QB, especially ND, are just too much for him.

Not a slight against BW at all, that job description would likely haunt 98% of all athletes applying.

I think it might be time to invest a lot more early season time in Book, followed by Wimbush and if successful, Phil.

It really hurts me to write this as I expected to see a monumental turnaround in BW's play this year. Great athlete, but had a tough day with the pass reading and accuracy today. Love you BW but times are tough and I only want the best for the team. And I admit right up front, I may be wrong about everything.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

P.S. - I've had a couple beers and am feeling bold.

Very kind and eloquently said. Based on much of what you said and his inability to consistently hit. Open receivers it is time to at least try a change. If the coaches aren’t going to direct him to use his legs for yards gained then I see zero reason for playing him. He is a dual threat QB or he is not a QB.
Let’s face it based on what I saw today and the second half of the Michigan game this team will be fortunate to get to 8 wins. Kelly needs to win NOW or he won’t be here next year,

Today was the weakest win I can remember.

 

[ulukinatme]

I feel like every time we play these rinky-dink teams (Ball St, UMass, etc) they come out with fast passing attacks and take advantage of our corners playing so far off the ball. We get burned for it, and it allows them to negate our pass rush. Now, later in the game we did start playing up on the corners and it helped...but you'd think we would have started doing more of that early. Knock them around on the line of scrimmage to throw off the routes, that usually buys your Front 7 some time to get to the QB and rattle him. I can't be the only one that's noticed it.

 

[Irishman77]

When you get a chance watch the 15 yd cushion they were giving Claypool.

 

[Irish YJ]

When you get a chance watch the 15 yd cushion they were giving Claypool.

WR and TEs were open a plenty. It's not all on the OL..

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I can't believe there's not a "Brandon Wimbush is the worst collegiate passer of all-time" thread yet