Australian baseball player killed in OK by "bored" teens

[Cackalacky]

Are u talking about Michael Dewayne Jones? The half-black, half-white 17 year old who was arrested as being an accessory to the murder after the fact? Funny that people pick and choose which race people are when it suits their narrative. Obama? He's black. Zimmerman? He's white. Michael Dewayne Jones? He's white.

You and pat should take this to PM and have an orgy.

 

[Golden_Domer]

One of those kids is white too. Zimmerman's defenders are trying to make it into a racial thing though to demonize the media and black kids.

lol at "rap culture". Sounds like "urban youth".

Because "rap culture" never promotes violence.

Also, James Francis Edwards was clearly racist, and seemed to be a huge fan of *gasp* an infamous rapper who promotes violence:

James Edwards Tweets: Teen Charged In Murder Accused Of Sending Racist Messages

 

[LoveThee]

You and pat should take this to PM and have an orgy.

I honestly don't see where he is wrong in that point

 

[Golden_Domer]

You and pat should take this to PM and have an orgy.

Ad hominem attack. Classy.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

You and pat should take this to PM and have an orgy.

Clearly you have never been in an orgy...

 

[Cackalacky]

Ad hominem attack. Classy.

My argument is above with sources against your "must read" shite article. You quoted a suggestion. You and pat would get along swimmingly.

 

[potownhero]

It's foolish to say that black people don't care about black people being killed if they are killed by another black person, and then comparing it to talking about cops killing black kids. One has to do with authorities, the same authorities who abandoned them in the inner city.

I don't think that the author was saying that they don't care about black on black murder, just that the degree of outrage is not even close to the same...

That combined with the fact that black on black murder happens in far greater numbers.

A community honest with itself should and would express more concern and invest more efforts to reduce that which causes it greater harm; in this case black on black crime.

 

[Cackalacky]

Clearly you have never been in an orgy...

A man has to have standards.

 

[Golden_Domer]

My argument is above with sources against your "must read" shite article. You quoted a suggestion. You and pat would get along swimmingly.

I don't see an "argument." I see that you quoted a bunch of statistics. What are you trying to get at? The "shite" article I linked to was written by a respected, liberal, African-American with a PhD in linguistics from Stanford. A little more respect for the author, please.

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't see an "argument." I see that you quoted a bunch of statistics. What are you trying to get at? The "shite" article I linked to was written by a respected, liberal, African-American with a PhD in linguistics from Stanford. A little more respect for the author, please.

What am I getting at..... That reasons murders occur are more complex than just race and in fact race has little to do with murders at all. Now, hate crimes are predominately biased against blacks. I know you are surprised, but it has been that way for a while. Is there a violence problem with black communities? Maybe. I think there is a violence problem with the US and its very complicated and can't be boiled down to an opinion piece in Time by a linguist.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Because "rap culture" never promotes violence.

Also, James Francis Edwards was clearly racist, and seemed to be a huge fan of *gasp* an infamous rapper who promotes violence:

James Edwards Tweets: Teen Charged In Murder Accused Of Sending Racist Messages

Rap culture is a product of the environment. It doesn't promote violence or create violence just like violent video games and Judas Priest don't cause school shootings. Tweets about Chief Keef mean nothing.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I don't think that the author was saying that they don't care about black on black murder, just that the degree of outrage is not even close to the same...

That combined with the fact that black on black murder happens in far greater numbers.

A community honest with itself should and would express more concern and invest more efforts to reduce that which causes it greater harm; in this case black on black crime.

The problem isn't that it causes more harm. The problem is that white people getting away with killing black people was a huge sign of oppression for generations. It's like Rodney King beatings in that the people guilty don't always get convicted that way. That is where the anger comes from. Black people do try to stop the violence in the streets. It causes more harm but it's not indicative of the social standing of blacks in the inner city and how the authorities treat them. These kids were taken immediately to jail. Zimmerman wasn't even detained. The feeling is that it would not have happened that way if Zimmerman was a black man.

 

[ACamp1900]

 

[In Lou I Trust]

The problem isn't that it causes more harm. The problem is that white people getting away with killing black people was a huge sign of oppression for generations. It's like Rodney King beatings in that the people guilty don't always get convicted that way. That is where the anger comes from. Black people do try to stop the violence in the streets. It causes more harm but it's not indicative of the social standing of blacks in the inner city and how the authorities treat them. These kids were taken immediately to jail. Zimmerman wasn't even detained. The feeling is that it would not have happened that way if Zimmerman was a black man.

Roderick Scott doesn't ring a bell? I'll give you one thing... he was detained. However, he was found innocent based on self-defense.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Roderick Scott doesn't ring a bell? I'll give you one thing... he was detained. However, he was found innocent based on self-defense.

That's why I didn't mention anything about being found guilty. The court of law is different from the immediate reactions of the police and public. Similar situation, black man gets arrested immediately and gets charged with 2nd degree murder. Non-black man is free until the public reacts. That's where the mistrust of police and the stronger reaction to interracial violence comes from.

 

[Golden_Domer]

What am I getting at..... That reasons murders occur are more complex than just race and in fact race has little to do with murders at all. Now, hate crimes are predominately biased against blacks. I know you are surprised, but it has been that way for a while. Is there a violence problem with black communities? Maybe. I think there is a violence problem with the US and its very complicated and can't be boiled down to an opinion piece in Time by a linguist.

Don't be so condescending.

I agree that the violence problem is very complex. The point the author was trying to make was not to disregard race.

The hate crime stats, firstly, have nothing to do with what we're talking about. Secondly, the hate crime stats are not surprising at all, because those laws were originally designed to protect African-Americans from the likes of the KKK. The Civil Rights Act is predominantly enforced in cases of white on black crime. It's been like that for longer than a while, so what? At the same time, hate crime statistics are often difficult to compile because "hate" can be a very subjective thing. In order to label something as a "hate crime," you need objective evidence. Objective evidence of a subjective motivation is very difficult to ascertain. That's why I would posit that hate crimes statistics do not reflect the actual amount of hate crimes being committed. Not by a long shot.

 

[Golden_Domer]

Police said Michael Jones is a white male. The Luna kid is mixed. The Edwards kid is black.

Do u have a source on that?

 

[irishpat183]

Justice will be served, correct? The people who shot the kid are all in custody, correct?They will stand trial, correct?

What does Obama have to do with every random act of violence in the country? Do you want him to apologize for every white kid killed by black kids?

Silly.

Sucks for everyone involved. Senseless.

That's not what I said. But he stuck his nose in the last case and convicted a man of murder before the facts were laid out, did he not?!!?

My question was simple...Could these kids also not be "his son"?? Come on, Barack...Let's hear it.

 

[irishpat183]

Rap culture is a product of the environment. It doesn't promote violence or create violence just like violent video games and Judas Priest don't cause school shootings. Tweets about Chief Keef mean nothing.

I disagree. I'm not saying it's the only way violence is created...but come on. You're telling me that kids listening to that music don't want to "be like that" and do things that mirror the thuggish behaivor?

And if rap artists, hollywood, video games, death metal can change the world for the better with their crafts...to deny that they also have a negative effect is delusional.

 

[irishpat183]

And why would this thread get closed? I mean, isn't this a discussion board?


Sometimes, people are going to have opinons that you may not agree with. Don't close a thread because some poster gets his panties in a wad becuase he believes that "so-and-so made racist comments"....


Sheesh. Read my tag line if you think I mentioned anything racist.

 

[woolybug25]

And why would this thread get closed? I mean, isn't this a discussion board?


Sometimes, people are going to have opinons that you may not agree with. Don't close a thread because some poster gets his panties in a wad becuase he believes that "so-and-so made racist comments"....


Sheesh. Read my tag line if you think I mentioned anything racist.

It will probably eventually get closed because of your inability to debate with interjecting incredibly inconsiderate or vaguely rascist comments. If you truly wanted to "discuss" these topics, then you would change your behavior. But the clear fact that you revel in your brashness, shows that intelligent debate is not your intent. It's argumentative discourse and insinuation that you are here for.

 

[irishpat183]

It will probably eventually get closed because of your inability to debate with interjecting incredibly inconsiderate or vaguely rascist comments. If you truly wanted to "discuss" these topics, then you would change your behavior. But the clear fact that you revel in your brashness, shows that intelligent debate is not your intent. It's argumentative discourse and insinuation that you are here for.

Glad you can read minds....

"vaguely racist"?? LOL. Come on. What racist comments have I made?

So our POTUS can pick and choose which black youth he gets to put his stamp on? Bullshit. If his son can look like Trayvon...why can't these morons?

And how is stating that, racist? So I assume that Obama is racists as well?


Again, it's a discussion board. There are PLENTY of other blowhards on here and not once have I ever said "WAAAA WAAAAA I DON"T AGREE!!! CLOSE THE THREAD" or hit the ignore button. Because I actually find opposing views interesting. Regardless of how they come off. No, I'm not one to type up a paragraph just to get a point across and I don't like to dance around an argument if one is sitting next too me....but it's who I am. I understand if that's not for everyone. I can live with that.

Besides, it's the offseason....this is what happens when you're killing time with a buncha other guys. LOL

 

[IrishLax]

So much sheer idiocy in this thread. Sometimes I wonder if certain posters are just trolls created by the Right or Left to make their side look ridiculous. This is the only sentence I find interesting and worthy of discussion.

What am I getting at..... That reasons murders occur are more complex than just race and in fact race has little to do with murders at all. Now, hate crimes are predominately biased against blacks. I know you are surprised, but it has been that way for a while. Is there a violence problem with black communities? Maybe. I think there is a violence problem with the US and its very complicated and can't be boiled down to an opinion piece in Time by a linguist.

To the bolded, I think this is far more complex than a blanket stat can cover... for reasons alluded to throughout this thread, but let me back up a second. Hate crimes legislate against what you are thinking/your motivations for committing a crime. This is an incredibly interesting law... because short of someone saying exactly what their motivations were and/or documenting them in some way (like yelling "DIE BLACKIE DIE!" as you kill someone and witnesses attesting to this fact) I don't see how you can prove that a crime is a hate crime. And even if you can, why is murdering someone because you're a general sociopath "less" of a crime than murdering someone because you're a racist/sexist/homophobic sociopath? Shouldn't a murder be a murder?

Now, starting with the bolded... "biased against" can be interpretted a number of ways:
1) That Blacks are victims of hate crimes more often than others.
2) That Blacks are convicted of hate crimes more often than others due to bias.

So now let's look at the stats you pulled out earlier... 58% of hate crimes are committed by Latinos or Whites. For starters, this doesn't say who they were committed against... gays, black, Asians? Whites vs. Latinos? Latinos vs. Whites? And why were Whites & Latinos coupled together in your statistics? That seems very... odd.

But moving on, the United States is somewhere around 82% Latino/Hispanic/White and 13% Black. So Blacks are being convicted for hate crimes at a far greater rate (1.4) than the Latino/Hispanic/White blob (.7).

So if you meant #1 it is refuted by the numbers you provided. If you meant #2, it could be supported by the numbers you provided... but you'd need more corroborating evidence to suggest that there is bias in the convictions. Right now all your data shows is that Blacks are convicted of hate crimes at a rate twice that of the Latino/White blob... which means they're either committing more hate crimes OR unfairly being prosecuted.

 

[connor_in]

Sorry...Please kill the thread mods.

I simply had just heard of this occurrence and read stuff from both sides of the aisle...and personally was interested in more of the international and news aspect. Did not want it to degenerate into strictly racial arguments and sniping. I knew race was an issue but not the only aspect. Plus, the arguing here seems to be devolving far worse and quicker than the TM/GZ thread

 

[woolybug25]

Glad you can read minds....

"vaguely racist"?? LOL. Come on. What racist comments have I made?

So our POTUS can pick and choose which black youth he gets to put his stamp on? Bullshit. If his son can look like Trayvon...why can't these morons?

And how is stating that, racist? So I assume that Obama is racists as well?


Again, it's a discussion board. There are PLENTY of other blowhards on here and not once have I ever said "WAAAA WAAAAA I DON"T AGREE!!! CLOSE THE THREAD" or hit the ignore button. Because I actually find opposing views interesting. Regardless of how they come off. No, I'm not one to type up a paragraph just to get a point across and I don't like to dance around an argument if one is sitting next too me....but it's who I am. I understand if that's not for everyone. I can live with that.

Besides, it's the offseason....this is what happens when you're killing time with a buncha other guys. LOL

So out of everything I wrote, the only thing you actually read were "vaguely rascist"? You really missed the entire point of what I said and then proceeded to do excactly what I said in your response (sans the vaguely rascist).

Btw, this case doesn't have anyone arguing over the guilt of the people who did the crime. If people were claiming some type of rightousness in this situation, then people would start talking more about it. But if you wont be satisfied unless the president makes a public apology for every black on white crime ever committed, then you simply wont ever be satisfied.

But that's not why you are intested in writing in this thread is it?

 

[ACamp1900]

not once have I ever said "WAAAA WAAAAA I DON"T AGREE!!! CLOSE THE THREAD" or hit the ignore button.

You wound me.

 

[irishpat183]

So out of everything I wrote, the only thing you actually read were "vaguely rascist"? You really missed the entire point of what I said and then proceeded to do excactly what I said in your response (sans the vaguely rascist).

Btw, this case doesn't have anyone arguing over the guilt of the people who did the crime. If people were claiming some type of rightousness in this situation, then people would start talking more about it. But if you wont be satisfied unless the president makes a public apology for every black on white crime ever committed, then you simply wont ever be satisfied.

But that's not why you are intested in writing in this thread is it?

What was your point? If it was not to call me a racist or tell me I'm ill equipped to have an intelligent convo because I'm too brash...then what was your point?


I'm interested in this thread because it's compelling. Yes, it's three black Teens (one looks mixed) gunning down some white dude. It's three YOUNG teens being "bored". It's a baseball player. A foreign kid over here to live out his dream, only to have it taken away too early.

There are many, many story lines here...race is one issue given the attention that the TM case brought.

My question is, Mr President...why have you ignored nearly every other case but TM's? I'd love to hear it. It has nothing to do with "apologizing"...Obama didn't commit this crime. Just like Chris Matthews and the rest of MSNBC can stop apologizing on behalf of white people all the time. Just drop it. The only guilty ones are those that commit the crimes.


In any case, I'd like to know how the parents allowed their 15 year old teen get a gun in the first place.

 

[woolybug25]

What was your point? If it was not to call me a racist or tell me I'm ill equipped to have an intelligent convo because I'm too brash...then what was your point?

You asked why it would be eventually closed, and I told you. The point was clear as mud. Question = Answer. What is being lost in translation here?

I'm interested in this thread because it's compelling. Yes, it's three black Teens (one looks mixed) gunning down some white dude. It's three YOUNG teens being "bored". It's a baseball player. A foreign kid over here to live out his dream, only to have it taken away too early.

There are many, many story lines here...race is one issue given the attention that the TM case brought.

My question is, Mr President...why have you ignored nearly every other case but TM's? I'd love to hear it. It has nothing to do with "apologizing"...Obama didn't commit this crime. Just like Chris Matthews and the rest of MSNBC can stop apologizing on behalf of white people all the time. Just drop it. The only guilty ones are those that commit the crimes.

In any case, I'd like to know how the parents allowed their 15 year old teen get a gun in the first place.

Again... do you expect the president to respond to every single white on black crime? He responded to the Trayvon case because it was being debated on whether the crime was justified. Who is crying about this crime being justified? The only common denominator is people like you foaming at the mouth because you think the President owes you an apology for every single rascism-based crime in this country. Wake up, racist crimes happen every day that no one talks about. You are trying to connect multiple incidents that have only one thing in common (race) and completely disregarding that the GZ case was addressed for an entirely different reason (whether it was justifiable).

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I disagree. I'm not saying it's the only way violence is created...but come on. You're telling me that kids listening to that music don't want to "be like that" and do things that mirror the thuggish behaivor?

And if rap artists, hollywood, video games, death metal can change the world for the better with their crafts...to deny that they also have a negative effect is delusional.

I'm saying that people who would imitate Chief Keef or other wannabe gangstas and go out and kill would go out and kill regardless. No one goes from choirboy to killer because Chief Keef said "Hit 'em with that cobra, now that boy slumped ova". Just like Doom didn't cause the Columbine shootings and metal doesn't make people kill.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm saying that people who would imitate Chief Keef or other wannabe gangstas and go out and kill would go out and kill regardless. No one goes from choirboy to killer because Chief Keef said "Hit 'em with that cobra, now that boy slumped ova". Just like Doom didn't cause the Columbine shootings and metal doesn't make people kill.

But Marvin Gaye does cause girls to want to take their undies off. Mystical to say the least....


By the way, I was going to use the word "panties", but that word makes me uncomfortable. That and the word, "moist".