Another Shooting

[Blazers46]

Murder Rate by Country 2026

Detailed statistics on murder rate by country, giving insights into both the highest and lowest murder rates per one hundred thousand people.

worldpopulationreview.com

If the "they would kill people anyways" was true, wouldn't homicide rates be similar to peers? UK is at 1.2, CAN 1.96, France 1.20, Germany 0.95...US is at 4.96.

Regards to parenting, from 2014 so grain of salt - Single parents worldwide: Statistics and trends

UK has similar single parent %'s, yet homicides are 4x lower.

Poverty rates - Poverty Rate by Country 2022

UK/Italy/Greece all have higher poverty rates. Much lower homicide rates.

Statistically parenting and poverty rates would not be a good predicator of crime at a macro level. Might be some structural issues rather than cultural problems.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

You are citing numbers from European countries where the culture is vastly different. How many inner city Chicago’s do these places have? It’s hard to talk about homicide rates in America without giving context. If you take a certain cultural aspect out of the equation that these euro countries don’t have you can cut Americas homicide rate by over 1/2.

 

[ACamp1900]

We can certainly compare statistics with other countries but we‘d also be wise when looking at murder rates to take into account statistics associated with mental health care, education levels, ethnicities, socioeconomics including poverty rates (as TG mentions), gun laws, illegal drug use, organized crime, male vs. female populations, overall populations, urban vs. suburban vs. rural, family support systems, etc. Murder rates are a useful comparative indicator but there are many other factors. I haven’t researched much into murder rates but I’d fathom a guess that the vast majority of US murders occur in urban areas where socioeconomic conditions are poor and if this is the case, this alone would skew the numbers as compared to smaller countries with fewer urban areas. Firearms (legal and illegal) certainly factor into the murder rates, in this country and worldwide.

I saw it somewhere recently, hell might have been on IE, where a breakdown showed that if you got the ~6 urban centers where the majority of violence happens under control our world wide rates fall way down,… idk if it’s true but worth thinking about

 

[TorontoGold]

You are comparing apples and oranges.

You are citing numbers from European countries where the culture is vastly different. How many inner city Chicago’s do these places have? It’s hard to talk about homicide rates in America without giving context. If you take a certain cultural aspect out of the equation that these euro countries don’t have you can cut Americas homicide rate by over 1/2.

I can make a guess that these countries do in fact have trouble spots. What do you mean by a certain cultural aspect? (Genuinely don't know what you're referring to)

My point is the homicide rate should not be that high - India and Pakistan are countries with much lower rates. Kenya is right around the same. These should not be peer countries (incredibly NA slanted view).

If you share similar rate statistics with other developed countries the homicide rate shouldn't be that high. Anyways, I love Chicago it's in my top 3 favorite cities in the world (obviously I don't go to the trouble spots).

 

[Blazers46]

I can make a guess that these countries do in fact have trouble spots. What do you mean by a certain cultural aspect? (Genuinely don't know what you're referring to)

My point is the homicide rate should not be that high - India and Pakistan are countries with much lower rates. Kenya is right around the same. These should not be peer countries (incredibly NA slanted view).

If you share similar rate statistics with other developed countries the homicide rate shouldn't be that high. Anyways, I love Chicago it's in my top 3 favorite cities in the world (obviously I don't go to the trouble spots).

“What do you mean by certain cultural aspects”

“Chicago is one of my favorite cities but I don’t go to the trouble spots”

Oh tell me more about these “trouble spots” in Chicago and the cultural components of these “trouble spots” you so keenly avoid but yet have no clue what I’m talking about. Let me guess, you were told not to go to the South Side but you have no idea why except crime is abnormally high there…?? Spare me Toronto!!

Stop pretending to be the smartest guy in the room and dumbest at the same time.

I’ll say the quiet part out loud. If you take away the inner city violence in America you have a very palatable and comparative homicide rate. In America 13% of the population commits an overwhelmingly disproportionate amount of homicides than the other 87%. This is your “trouble spot” you avoid in Chicago.

As far as being compared with Pakistan, India, and Kenya… I’m sure their criminal justice systems do an impeccable job accurately reporting crime…. aren’t honor killings still a thing and not even reported. Kenya was in hot water with the UN for human rights violations pertaining to their transparency. What is even a crime in Pakistan…. Killing a gay with the Quran instead of a rock?

Your credibility is in the lost and found but it’s in one of those “trouble spots”, when you finally find it please tell me what you see… report back before the next round accurate detailed crime stats come back from Pakistan.

I guess I’ll add while I’m on the topic. It’s sad to see the President throw a fit and talk about gun control when a shooting makes headlines but totally silent when it comes to inner city violence happening as we speak that might make the back page of their local paper. If he and the left cared about gun violence they would… well… care about gun violence. Never let a good headline/crisis go to waste.

 

[Irish#1]

Gun owner and 2A supporter here, and I find this wildly irresponsible.

Respectively, I'm not making a suggestion towards yours or your kids' welfare or mental health or that they'll one day be a school shooter.

What I'd like to say is that this is a common theme with school shooters: Parents legally bought and purchased gun(s). Child knows how to use said gun(s). Gun(s) aren't properly locked away. Parents assume "my kid would never do something crazy." One day kid grabs the legally purchased gun(s) from closet, etc. and walks into unprotected school. Only after do we learn about the red flags, the depression/anxiety, bullying, etc. The Left screams, "BAN ALL GUNS!" while the Right defends the 2A citing stricter gun laws wouldn't prevent this from happening because they were legally purchased, and kid had mental health issues, etc etc. Round and round we go. Until the next shooting happens.

Please, as a general rule of thumb, lock up your firearms and don't just assume your kids won't be the ones who snap. I genuinely mean that with all due respect.

To expand on this, how many of these shooters parents said they had no idea their kid was about to explode or that he was normal and never showed any indication of going off?

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I did make the assumption that it's unsecure when you said it's under your bed. I have plenty of friends and family members who keep firearms in drawers, under mattresses, etc...all of which are fully loaded and unsecured. My apologies for jumping to conclusions.

Cool beans dude.
Quick access is why I went with a pattern lock.

I'm a firm believer in theres no such thing as an accidental discharge just a negligent one.
That's why I tried to make it not worth the effort to get since kids are gonna be kids.

But honestly my biggest fear was it's unprotected and one of the kids makes a permanent decision to a temporary problem. Or that one of them sneaks out and I hear them sneaking back in and make a terrible mistake.

That shit had me moving it to the safe for awhile.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

To expand on this, how many of these shooters parents said they had no idea their kid was about to explode or that he was normal and never showed any indication of going off?

See I don't totally believe this. Someone knew and saw the warning signs.

Now parents are the 1st to wear rose colored glasses when it comes to their children. I will freely admit this, but someone in this guys life saw the warning signs even if they chose to ignore the signs or wave them away as just a phase.

Whitman is the only one I can think of off the top who just woke up and decided to start killing and even there I think I remember reading there were signs that his moods and behaviors were changing and I believe that the autopsy found a growth on one his lobes. May have been a tumor.
Correct me if I'm wrong on that maybe it was another nut case I read that about.

I think connected parents have to have noticed something if they are disconnected they would have missed the signs.
Single parent working 2 jobs who only sees the kid as one of them is walking out the door them I'll believe that unless the kid actually says something they are just gonna keep walking.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not sure what the technical term is but there is a metric butt ton of more guns with sales reaching record levels in 2020.

IMO, a lot of the purchases of guns was due to the riots that were taking place and the outcry to neuter the police.

 

[Irish#1]

Murder Rate by Country 2026

Detailed statistics on murder rate by country, giving insights into both the highest and lowest murder rates per one hundred thousand people.

worldpopulationreview.com

If the "they would kill people anyways" was true, wouldn't homicide rates be similar to peers? UK is at 1.2, CAN 1.96, France 1.20, Germany 0.95...US is at 4.96.

Regards to parenting, from 2014 so grain of salt - Single parents worldwide: Statistics and trends

UK has similar single parent %'s, yet homicides are 4x lower.

Poverty rates - Poverty Rate by Country 2022

UK/Italy/Greece all have higher poverty rates. Much lower homicide rates.

Statistically parenting and poverty rates would not be a good predicator of crime at a macro level. Might be some structural issues rather than cultural problems.

Maybe that's because they can't afford to buy a gun and milk & bread take priority?

 

[Rogue219]

"It could have been worse."

- Governor Greg Abbott


More disruption of these systems is necessary. For our own survival and the survival of not only our kids, but our seniors. These grifting bastards could not only not give a damn about us, but they brainwash us into not giving a damn about each other. They sow division, hatred and fear so they can keep their hands deep into the cookie jar. They just want to get to their next fund raiser, cash checks from their donors and move onto the next election.

Spineless creatures, and we think term limits is the solution to a problem that we're too ignorant to fix ourselves.

 

[Rogue219]

The shooter legally purchased the weapon, so are we to assume that the battle cry is US citizens shouldn't be allowed to have guns and only gov/ military can?

Yeah, you don't often hear of shooting sprees in the UK or Middle East. You see subway/ train bombings and suicide blasts in malls. Because people set on killing are going to kill, and we can't prevent 100% of them. People die every year at the hands of knives and hammers, but we can't ban them.

A few years ago a guy in a van rolled right down the sidewalk and killed people in Canada. We aren't banning cars.

He just turned 18. What was his intent when he purchased this stuff, to defend his Playstation from a pack of grizzly bears?

Why drive a van into an elementary school classroom when you can have a couple killing machines and over 300 rounds of ammo if you're 18 and can have it all in less than a week?

We aren't banning cars. You have to be trained to use one, then you get a license to drive one. They check your credit to make sure you can purchase one. There's a process. I've never fired a weapon in my life, but I could have one legally within a week (or less) without ever having been trained to use one.

We are the only nation where THIS happens frequently. Why?

Background Checks
Ending the gun show loophole
Ending straw purchases
Buyback programs for anyone interested
Red Flag laws

Raise the age limit. License and training should be required. There has to be some level of responsbility.

Will it stop 100% of these tragedies? No. As mentioned, we already have hundreds of millions of guns in circulation and they can't be taken away per 2A. Even if it can help somewhat while we try to solve the other problems we have in addition to this, if we are all anti murder of kids and truly value lives of others, isn't it a start? Doing something practical is better than doing nothing.

I'm a naive asshole snowflake, I'm sure.

 

[Armyirish47]

IMO, a lot of the purchases of guns was due to the riots that were taking place and the outcry to neuter the police.

There was definitely a surge then, but there was also a surge earlier in the year when lockdowns started, and again later in the year when the Big Lie was birthed through January when, well, you know.

 

[dublinirish]

"It could have been worse."

- Governor Greg Abbott


More disruption of these systems is necessary. For our own survival and the survival of not only our kids, but our seniors. These grifting bastards could not only not give a damn about us, but they brainwash us into not giving a damn about each other. They sow division, hatred and fear so they can keep their hands deep into the cookie jar. They just want to get to their next fund raiser, cash checks from their donors and move onto the next election.

Spineless creatures, and we think term limits is the solution to a problem that we're too ignorant to fix ourselves.

Don't forget:

 

[IrishLax]

I don’t really post in politics threads anymore, but this blew my mind. For years all I’ve heard is that more security, “good guy with a gun,” arming teachers, etc. is the answer. We now have two high profile school shootings recently where cops // school resource officers *intentionally* stood outside and did not engage while a shooter rampaged through the school. Is this cowardice or bad policy? Or both?

 

[Rockin’Irish]

I think having a stair step approach to firearm vetting/licensing would be wise and fair. In other words, the vetting/conditions for purchasing a .22 caliber 5 shot revolver should be less stringent than purchasing a long gun with semi-automatic and high capacity magazine capabilities.

 

[TorontoGold]

“What do you mean by certain cultural aspects”

“Chicago is one of my favorite cities but I don’t go to the trouble spots”

Oh tell me more about these “trouble spots” in Chicago and the cultural components of these “trouble spots” you so keenly avoid but yet have no clue what I’m talking about. Let me guess, you were told not to go to the South Side but you have no idea why except crime is abnormally high there…?? Spare me Toronto!!

Stop pretending to be the smartest guy in the room and dumbest at the same time.

I’ll say the quiet part out loud. If you take away the inner city violence in America you have a very palatable and comparative homicide rate. In America 13% of the population commits an overwhelmingly disproportionate amount of homicides than the other 87%. This is your “trouble spot” you avoid in Chicago.

As far as being compared with Pakistan, India, and Kenya… I’m sure their criminal justice systems do an impeccable job accurately reporting crime…. aren’t honor killings still a thing and not even reported. Kenya was in hot water with the UN for human rights violations pertaining to their transparency. What is even a crime in Pakistan…. Killing a gay with the Quran instead of a rock?

Your credibility is in the lost and found but it’s in one of those “trouble spots”, when you finally find it please tell me what you see… report back before the next round accurate detailed crime stats come back from Pakistan.

I guess I’ll add while I’m on the topic. It’s sad to see the President throw a fit and talk about gun control when a shooting makes headlines but totally silent when it comes to inner city violence happening as we speak that might make the back page of their local paper. If he and the left cared about gun violence they would… well… care about gun violence. Never let a good headline/crisis go to waste.

I didn't know you would make the inference that because Chicago has a large AA share that is why crime is high there.

I'm sorry your insecurity causes you to lash out like this. I posted the stats because it seemed like from a quick glance that the idea that the theories of single parented, and poor (relative among developed countries) doesn't hold water when compared to other peer countries. Maybe you have done a proper regression analysis you can share that support your position. Or, I guess we can say black culture is inherently criminal, eugenics??

Maybe that's because they can't afford to buy a gun and milk & bread take priority?

These were posted because many have said if someone was going to kill they would do it anyways and poor people would commit more homicides. Among comparable countries UK/Italy/Greece have higher poverty rates, but 4x less the rate of homicides.

 

[Blazers46]

I didn't know you would make the inference that because Chicago has a large AA share that is why crime is high there.

I'm sorry your insecurity causes you to lash out like this. I posted the stats because it seemed like from a quick glance that the idea that the theories of single parented, and poor (relative among developed countries) doesn't hold water when compared to other peer countries. Maybe you have done a proper regression analysis you can share that support your position. Or, I guess we can say black culture is inherently criminal, eugenics??

Do I really need to support my position on why Chicago’s crime/homicide rates are so high? And who is committing the homicide?

Support “my position” that Pakistan has legal honor killings and doesn’t report correct crime statistics?

Support “my position” that Kenya has been accused of human rights violations pertaining their transparency?

Your leftist blinders are very apparent.

65% of black children live in a single parent household. You can safely assume that number is higher in inner city areas like Chicago. You want to solve gun violence in Chicago let’s restore the family unit as part of that effort.

You can google the impacts and risk factors of single parent homes and absent fathers. It’s not a cure all but a huge problem in our society.

 

[TorontoGold]

Do I really need to support my position on why Chicago’s crime/homicide rates are so high? And who is committing the homicide?

Support “my position” that Pakistan has legal honor killings and doesn’t report correct crime statistics?

Support “my position” that Kenya has been accused of human rights violations pertaining their transparency?

Your leftist blinders are very apparent.

65% of black children live in a single parent household. You can safely assume that number is higher in inner city areas like Chicago. You want to solve gun violence in Chicago let’s restore the family unit as part of that effort.

You can google the impacts and risk factors of single parent homes and absent fathers. It’s not a cure all but a huge problem in our society.

Pakistan/Kenya were just examples of countries in the same space as US in murder rate. Even if you look at countries in the 2x range, these shouldn't be comparables (Belarus/Hungary/Egypt/Thailand).

My leftist blinders are saying "hmmm why is the murder rate in the UK 4x less than the US, despite higher poverty and more single parenting." The UK isn't some leftist utopia, it should be seen as a comparable country.

I'm not saying risk factors aren't a problem, they are, but if poverty/single parenting is worse in another country the delta between murder rates in the US/UK shouldn't be 4x.

 

[irishff1014]

WTF

Another fucking idiot.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

He just turned 18. What was his intent when he purchased this stuff, to defend his Playstation from a pack of grizzly bears?

Why drive a van into an elementary school classroom when you can have a couple killing machines and over 300 rounds of ammo if you're 18 and can have it all in less than a week?

We aren't banning cars. You have to be trained to use one, then you get a license to drive one. They check your credit to make sure you can purchase one. There's a process. I've never fired a weapon in my life, but I could have one legally within a week (or less) without ever having been trained to use one.

We are the only nation where THIS happens frequently. Why?

Background Checks
Ending the gun show loophole
Ending straw purchases
Buyback programs for anyone interested
Red Flag laws

Raise the age limit. License and training should be required. There has to be some level of responsbility.

Will it stop 100% of these tragedies? No. As mentioned, we already have hundreds of millions of guns in circulation and they can't be taken away per 2A. Even if it can help somewhat while we try to solve the other problems we have in addition to this, if we are all anti murder of kids and truly value lives of others, isn't it a start? Doing something practical is better than doing nothing.

I'm a naive asshole snowflake, I'm sure.

The database for these background checks is almost always not fully up-to-date, which is a massive problem. This shooter passed his background check...but should he have? We need to address that. I think a waiting period for sufficient (and up-to-date) background checks while a first time purchaser gets licensed and passes a safety course seems reasonable. It's also a popular policy position even among current gunowners.

Also, an important point to consider is that many of these policies you've listed may not end school shootings, but they would play a massive role in reducing gun violence rates in suicide, domestic violence, and other gun-related crimes. There is a recent report (sorry don't have time to find the link) where something like 80% of gun crimes were tracked back to straw purchases at a handful of different gun shops in one particular area. Seems like a pretty obvious problem with a pretty obvious solution, no? To those who say "well, criminals would just find another way..." FINE! Let them....but choosing to do nothing in these particularly obvious cases is willful negligence and gross incompetence by our "leaders."

I don’t really post in politics threads anymore, but this blew my mind. For years all I’ve heard is that more security, “good guy with a gun,” arming teachers, etc. is the answer. We now have two high profile school shootings recently where cops // school resource officers *intentionally* stood outside and did not engage while a shooter rampaged through the school. Is this cowardice or bad policy? Or both?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been big on guarding our schools like we guard our prisons/banks/airports etc. However, the reports about the SRO/Cops in this situation warrants a huge investigation with proper consequences. If the reports are true that the cops got their own kids out, waited to engage for 40 minutes, etc are true....wow, what are we doing here?! I thought police policies for active shooters changed from hostage situations (wait) to immediate engagement post-Columbine but maybe I'm wrong?

I think having a stair step approach to firearm vetting/licensing would be wise and fair. In other words, the vetting/conditions for purchasing a .22 caliber 5 shot revolver should be less stringent than purchasing a long gun with semi-automatic and high capacity magazine capabilities.

Seems reasonable.

 

[Blazers46]

Pakistan/Kenya were just examples of countries in the same space as US in murder rate. Even if you look at countries in the 2x range, these shouldn't be comparables (Belarus/Hungary/Egypt/Thailand).

My leftist blinders are saying "hmmm why is the murder rate in the UK 4x less than the US, despite higher poverty and more single parenting." The UK isn't some leftist utopia, it should be seen as a comparable country.

I'm not saying risk factors aren't a problem, they are, but if poverty/single parenting is worse in another country the delta between murder rates in the US/UK shouldn't be 4x.

Mental health… that’s an easy one. For a country with more safe spaces than parking spaces we have mental issues. Happens with the high single parent rate and where it’s preached by media and politicians everyone is a victim of something.

 

[TorontoGold]

Mental health… that’s an easy one. For a country with more safe spaces than parking spaces we have mental issues. Happens with the high single parent rate and where it’s preached by media and politicians everyone is a victim of something.

Got it. So your position is that the mental health in the US is significantly worse than other peer countries. You've likely got stats to back that up too, right?

 

[Blazers46]

Got it. So your position is that the mental health in the US is significantly worse than other peer countries. You've likely got stats to back that up too, right?

To the UK yes. Since that was the highlighted example.

Simple google search…. Crazy.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

He just turned 18. What was his intent when he purchased this stuff, to defend his Playstation from a pack of grizzly bears?

Why drive a van into an elementary school classroom when you can have a couple killing machines and over 300 rounds of ammo if you're 18 and can have it all in less than a week?

We aren't banning cars. You have to be trained to use one, then you get a license to drive one. They check your credit to make sure you can purchase one. There's a process. I've never fired a weapon in my life, but I could have one legally within a week (or less) without ever having been trained to use one.

We are the only nation where THIS happens frequently. Why?

Background Checks
Ending the gun show loophole
Ending straw purchases
Buyback programs for anyone interested
Red Flag laws

Raise the age limit. License and training should be required. There has to be some level of responsbility.

Will it stop 100% of these tragedies? No. As mentioned, we already have hundreds of millions of guns in circulation and they can't be taken away per 2A. Even if it can help somewhat while we try to solve the other problems we have in addition to this, if we are all anti murder of kids and truly value lives of others, isn't it a start? Doing something practical is better than doing nothing.

I'm a naive asshole snowflake, I'm sure.

If someone is denied access to a firearm (for whatever reason), they're going to find alternative means. People are murdered in the UK by machetes and suicide bombs go off regularly in the middle east.

You wanna compare us to the rest of the world? These school shootings don't happen in Israel because the teachers are armed and trained. Not saying we need to or should mimic it, but don't paint the picture that the US is full of school massacres while the rest of the world doesn't have their own murder issues.

 

[Rogue219]

Well, there's that. $211M seems like a lot of money, even for a big state like Texas.

Wreck it Rahm Emmanuel closed multiple mental health facilities to save tax payers some money when he was Mayor of Chicago. The result of that was a pretty significant crime spike in Chicago subsequently after. Was this the ONLY factor that played into that? Obviously not, but it probably didn't help matters and at worst the optics are crap.

Chicago PD has shown that a high number of guns used in crimes within the city get traced back to Indiana and Mississippi.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

As expected……details are starting to come forward about the shooter and how he was bullied at school because of a lisp and wearing black eyeliner. He had previous encounters with the police due to “fights” with his mother. He dropped out of high school as a senior. Appears to be much the same story of a mentally/emotionally troubled person lashing out at the society that has wronged them.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Woke leftists are disappointed the gunman was Salvador Ramos and not Kyle McHugh (made up name). No white supremacy tied to blame here for political points.

 

[dublinirish]

Woke leftists are disappointed the gunman was Salvador Ramos and not Kyle McHugh (made up name). No white supremacy tied to blame here for political points.

idiotic statement

 

[Rogue219]

There were rumors started immediately that the shooter was an illegal and or transgender.

Not sure if they were started by Antifa, cannibals or Satan worshippers.

 

[TorontoGold]

To the UK yes. Since that was the highlighted example.

Simple google search…. Crazy.

View attachment 3050678

Share of the population with anxiety disorders

Estimated share of people with anxiety disorders, whether or not they are diagnosed, based on representative surveys, medical data and statistical modelling.

ourworldindata.org

Anxiety disorders are higher in Germany which also has a much lower homicide rate than the US.

Share of population with mental health disorders

This includes depression, anxiety, bipolar, eating disorders, and schizophrenia.

ourworldindata.org

Mental health disorders as a whole....France has a similar share, yet a much lower homicide rate.