Another Shooting

[Blazers46]

Interesting conversation I had awhile ago about murder, mass shootings and suicide. A lot of these mass shootings and even gang violence that turns into a tit for tat can almost be considered suicides (obviously not in the legal sense).

Mass shooters typically kill themselves or at least know they aren’t going to make it out alive. Inner city gang violence is sort of the same way. The goal is to survive but in the bad areas and with the really invested gang members they will admit they don’t plan on a long life.

It’s sad. What spurns these young guys to be so reckless and careless about life? Typical ages are young adults. I keep saying it but we are not doing young men any justice. Society deserves better. Are we just not doing a good job providing these young men with meaning and purpose?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

West Virginia advances campus gun bill despite student alarm

West Virginia lawmakers have approved a bill that would allow people with concealed carry permits to bring firearms on state college and university campuses

abcnews.go.com

This shit was over with after Sandy Hook. Nothing changed. It's all anyone need know about how sick our society has become.

 

[Blazers46]

I fully agree with having more health professionals that are provided to kids in school. I think the biggest issues with this is 1) Cost, there will always be some saying that they don't want to pay for it whether that's with tax dollars or at a private school 2) "Don't speak to my kid", I think there is a lot of people/parents that will think they know better than a health professional so how do you enforce the *No psycho's at school* policy that we both agree on? Tough to tell someone there kid is a nutjob and they aren't safe to have in school. I think there was one school shooter that literally got flagged from the principal or police? that the kid was a loose cannon and yet the kid still went to town on the school because the shitbag parents didn't do anything about it.

Trust me I am fully onboard with your thoughts. I just think it would be tough to enforce despite the very obvious positive benefits.

I think the opposite. We need more parenting. More good parenting. Parents really suck ass these days. Like I said above, I think we don’t do well in giving these young men a purpose or meaning. They transition from young teens to adults and they aren’t ready.

I think I’ve mentioned it before but a great book on this is called the “Boy Crisis”. It’s an eye opener on this transition and how young boys lack purpose and meaning and a lot of it has to do with society and a shift in gender roles. In no way am I saying women are the problem. In no way is this book a politically slanted book either. It’s actually a great book.

 

[jprue24]

West Virginia advances campus gun bill despite student alarm

West Virginia lawmakers have approved a bill that would allow people with concealed carry permits to bring firearms on state college and university campuses

abcnews.go.com

This shit was over with after Sandy Hook. Nothing changed. It's all anyone need know about how sick our society has become.

This, this, and more this.

When they couldn't even expand background checks (90% supported)after Sandy Hook, I knew nothing was changing for at least a generation or two.

 

[BobbyMac]

Of course most guns deaths are by suicide. That doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that gun violence rates are Higher in red states than blue states. So the point I highlighted from your post was incorrect. The only reason including suicides makes what I said irrelevant is that you are incapable of admitting you are wrong even when presented with indisputable proof. And this is why you are FOS.

It appears you are the one who didn’t read the article. “According to Everytown’s analysis of FBI data, the cities with the highest gun homicide rates in 2020 were all in states with lax gun laws:

Jackson, Mississippi – 69 gun homicides per 100,000 people.
Gary, Indiana – 64.
St. Louis – 50.
New Orleans – 48.
Memphis, Tennessee – 47.”

Don’t homicides count either? 😏

So what you are saying is it's a Blue City problem that happen to be in Red States?

Signed,

Former resident of Gary, IN

 

[GoIrish41]

So what you are saying is it's a Blue City problem that happen to be in Red States?

Signed,

Former resident of Gary, IN

… that have red state laws, right?

 

[BobbyMac]

… that have red state laws, right?

So what makes people in cities more dangerous than those in the suburbs or rural parts of the state?

Hey, I'm all for Progressives applying their great ideas on themselves. We need to help yall figure out how to accomplish that.

 

[TorontoGold]

So what makes people in cities more dangerous than those in the suburbs or rural parts of the state?

Hey, I'm all for Progressives applying their great ideas on themselves. We need to help yall figure out how to accomplish that.

Interesting site I used when comparing cities to possibly move to, can always you this tool to compare crime rates. Interesting results for sure.

Teleport.org

 

[drayer54]

It's all anyone need know about how sick our society has become.

It's become sick, but not because of guns.

 

[GoIrish41]

So what makes people in cities more dangerous than those in the suburbs or rural parts of the state?

Hey, I'm all for Progressives applying their great ideas on themselves. We need to help yall figure out how to accomplish that.

Not more dangerous, just more! And when more people are crowded together and have to abide stupid gun laws it’s more dangerous. The states with strict state gun laws and democratic leadership don’t make the top five. I wonder why?

 

[drayer54]

 

[Bishop2b5]

I fully agree with having more health professionals that are provided to kids in school. I think the biggest issues with this is 1) Cost, there will always be some saying that they don't want to pay for it whether that's with tax dollars or at a private school 2) "Don't speak to my kid", I think there is a lot of people/parents that will think they know better than a health professional so how do you enforce the *No psycho's at school* policy that we both agree on? Tough to tell someone there kid is a nutjob and they aren't safe to have in school. I think there was one school shooter that literally got flagged from the principal or police? that the kid was a loose cannon and yet the kid still went to town on the school because the shitbag parents didn't do anything about it.

Trust me I am fully onboard with your thoughts. I just think it would be tough to enforce despite the very obvious positive benefits.

I don't think it would be as expensive as it might at first seem. Let's say you test all kids in the 1st, 5th, 8th and 11th grades. And what I'm talking about is something like an MMPI adapted for their age range. You're just looking to identify kids that show some significant issues, whether it's depression, anger problems, anxiety, lack of empathy, beginnings of psychopathy or sociopathy, and etc. A staff of 3 or 4 could test, grade, evaluate, and make recommendations for at least 1000 kids every school year. That's no more costly than the staff of the basketball teams or the library. National program for all public and private schools. Identify kids with issues and go the whole ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure route.

Sure, some parents would object to the school testing their kid and telling them he or she has issues and needs help, but we do essentially the same with kids who have ADD, hearing or vision problems, and learning disabilities. I don't think it would be difficult to demonstrate that the benefit to children to get those who need it help, and the long term benefit to society would far outweigh any other issues.

Your comment about shitbag parents is a big selling point, though. Of course a lot of kids are messed up because their parents are crap. Part of what I'm advocating is a breaking of that cycle. Little Johnny has anger and self-control issues, a poor sense of responsibility, lacks a healthy sense of empathy, and has a few other issues because his dad's violent and drunk, won't work, is a career criminal, and his mom is this and that too. Maybe by getting Johnny some counseling and showing him a better way to live, he grows up to be a much better person and parent than his were. Probably takes a couple of generations to eradicate all of that bad behavior that's the cultural norm in his family, but it definitely improves, and you start breaking such cycles.

 

[TorontoGold]

I don't think it would be as expensive as it might at first seem. Let's say you test all kids in the 1st, 5th, 8th and 11th grades. And what I'm talking about is something like an MMPI adapted for their age range. You're just looking to identify kids that show some significant issues, whether it's depression, anger problems, anxiety, lack of empathy, beginnings of psychopathy or sociopathy, and etc. A staff of 3 or 4 could test, grade, evaluate, and make recommendations for at least 1000 kids every school year. That's no more costly than the staff of the basketball teams or the library. National program for all public and private schools. Identify kids with issues and go the whole ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure route.

Sure, some parents would object to the school testing their kid and telling them he or she has issues and needs help, but we do essentially the same with kids who have ADD, hearing or vision problems, and learning disabilities. I don't think it would be difficult to demonstrate that the benefit to children to get those who need it help, and the long term benefit to society would far outweigh any other issues.

Your comment about shitbag parents is a big selling point, though. Of course a lot of kids are messed up because their parents are crap. Part of what I'm advocating is a breaking of that cycle. Little Johnny has anger and self-control issues, a poor sense of responsibility, lacks a healthy sense of empathy, and has a few other issues because his dad's violent and drunk, won't work, is a career criminal, and his mom is this and that too. Maybe by getting Johnny some counseling and showing him a better way to live, he grows up to be a much better person and parent than his were. Probably takes a couple of generations to eradicate all of that bad behavior that's the cultural norm in his family, but it definitely improves, and you start breaking such cycles.

Absolutely agree 100%. I think another thing too is a free breakfast program to help in poorer areas. Addressing the basic necessities that kids need are actually a fraction of the cost compared to when they are teenagers.

When I was studying education economics, the least costly programs analyzed in papers that addressed learning gaps were breakfast programs for kindergarten/early grade kids. Things like security retro fits, more cameras, surveillance equipment were more costly and didn't provide the same impact in crime reduction or education attainment. A pretty basic breakfast is fairly cheap to provide en masse and when done without any "food stamp" type identification, the kids responded really well to it. Of course, I don't have these studies handy so it's a "dude trust me".

TLDR - Kids are pretty much set in stone by the time they're in high school, so it's cheaper to address issues earlier with pretty basic programs.

 

[NorthDakota]

That's subjective as hell and different than what Bishop is saying

It's about curbing a specific type of crime, though your point isn't lost on me.





For everyone's consumption, here is some data analysis about the "assault" weapons ban

Effects of Assault Weapon and High-Capacity Magazine Bans on Mass Shootings

Analysis of the impact of bans on the sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines on mass shootings in the United States

www.rand.org

How is it subjective?

I presume your idea is restrictions on the types of gun ownership allowed? Telling NorthDakota he can't buy an AR-10/15 doesn't make the world a safer place.

From a practical sense, guns aren't going anywhere. If there is a meaningful attempt to limit them, they can be printed, or imported. People need to move on as far as gun stuff goes.

 

[Blazers46]

TLDR - Kids are pretty much set in stone by the time they're in high school, so it's cheaper to address issues earlier with pretty basic programs.

I agree it’s easier to mold than remold. Initial view or “the law of first” becomes their worldview and everything after that is tested on that first thing taught… but that transition into adulthood seems to be where these young adults go from being derailed to going off the rails. Not sure if it’s any expectations/reality thing or basis unmet sense of purpose. It’s something I’m obviously very passionate about.

 

[Blazers46]

How is it subjective?

I presume your idea is restrictions on the types of gun ownership allowed? Telling NorthDakota he can't buy an AR-10/15 doesn't make the world a safer place.

From a practical sense, guns aren't going anywhere. If there is a meaningful attempt to limit them, they can be printed, or imported. People need to move on as far as gun stuff goes.

Maybe my family is redneck but I have an uncle that not only makes his own guns but fabricates stocks and other things. I have other family that can make them as well. You ban certain guns the internet and metal shops will become pretty popular. If they ban certain weapons it won’t be long before a black market is created.

 

[Blazers46]

Not sure how I missed this but it’s basically in the same parking lot as the El Paso Walmart shooting for a few years ago.

Texas mall food court shooting leaves 1 dead, 3 injured; 1 person in custody: police

Texas police responded to reports of shots fired in the food court of Cielo Vista Mall in El Paso, Texas, Wednesday evening, telling residents to avoid the area.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Bishop2b5]

Absolutely agree 100%. I think another thing too is a free breakfast program to help in poorer areas. Addressing the basic necessities that kids need are actually a fraction of the cost compared to when they are teenagers.

When I was studying education economics, the least costly programs analyzed in papers that addressed learning gaps were breakfast programs for kindergarten/early grade kids. Things like security retro fits, more cameras, surveillance equipment were more costly and didn't provide the same impact in crime reduction or education attainment. A pretty basic breakfast is fairly cheap to provide en masse and when done without any "food stamp" type identification, the kids responded really well to it. Of course, I don't have these studies handy so it's a "dude trust me".

I've become a fan of the free breakfast program. When my youngest (11) started school in S. Dakota, they served breakfast, but you had to pay for it. By her third year they got a Federal grant, I believe, and started serving free breakfast to the poor kids. Well, that had a certain stigma attached, so they started serving breakfast to all the kids. They do the same thing now at her middle school in Montana. So yeah, I think it's a great idea and am all for it.

 

[jprue24]

How is it subjective?

Because there are laws that exist that not everyone agrees is beneficial to law abiding citizens (eg. Affordable Care Act)?

I presume your idea is restrictions on the types of gun ownership allowed? Telling NorthDakota he can't buy an AR-10/15 doesn't make the world a safer place.

You would presume wrong, I have already said, I'm very flexible about what gun laws would look like. I'd like to stop you from selling/giving a gun to your relative without them having to get a background check. I don't care if it the seller pays or the cost is passed on.

That's about as deep as I get.

From a practical sense, guns aren't going anywhere. If there is a meaningful attempt to limit them, they can be printed, or imported.

As I mentioned.....

This, this, and more this.

When they couldn't even expand background checks (90% supported)after Sandy Hook, I knew nothing was changing for at least a generation or two.

People need to move on as far as gun stuff goes.

That's not going to happen either.

 

[GowerND11]

I've become a fan of the free breakfast program. When my youngest (11) started school in S. Dakota, they served breakfast, but you had to pay for it. By her third year they got a Federal grant, I believe, and started serving free breakfast to the poor kids. Well, that had a certain stigma attached, so they started serving breakfast to all the kids. They do the same thing now at her middle school in Montana. So yeah, I think it's a great idea and am all for it.

In the 90s when I was in elementary school our lunch program had regular, reduced, and free lunch based on your family's income. In 1st grade I saw kids were getting free or reduced lunch and I was paying regular. I went on a rampage at home the night I found out about this telling my parents "I WANT FREE LUNCH! WHY DO I (you) HAVE TO PAY FULL PRICE!" I had no idea it was based on finances, but yeah.

Now as an adult, I say give every kid free breakfast and lunch every day. If they want to purchase extra food/drinks/snacks at lunch, that's fine, but the least we can do as a country is give our students food.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Personally, I have a couple of firearms so I’m solid on the right to bear them. However, we need more controls in place because there are just too many wildcard and criminal individuals that don’t have them for the “right” reasons such as defense, collecting and/or non-human target shooting. One way we could try to attack the problem is to make sure our background check system is strengthened to a degree. I think a reasonable waiting period is a good idea. More importantly, we could set up a tiered ownership program. If an individual wants to purchase a certain type of firearm, there is an applicable certification required that would involve training with the weapon, etc. The instructors would be well trained. This would actually generate revenue and provide additional employment as well as business opportunities. Purchasing a single shot .22 plinking rifle would require a lower tier certification while a semi-automatic rifle would be much more involved at the highest tier. IMO, this would be a decent starting point. We’d still have to address gun theft, selling guns illegally, transferring gun ownership, etc., there will still be many of firearms out there that are “illegal” by type or due to the ownership (or lack thereof) status.

 

[jprue24]

Personally, I have a couple of firearms so I’m solid on the right to bear them. However, we need more controls in place because there are just too many wildcard and criminal individuals that don’t have them for the “right” reasons such as defense, collecting and/or non-human target shooting. One way we could try to attack the problem is to make sure our background check system is strengthened to a degree. I think a reasonable waiting period is a good idea. More importantly, we could set up a tiered ownership program. If an individual wants to purchase a certain type of firearm, there is an applicable certification required that would involve training with the weapon, etc. The instructors would be well trained. This would actually generate revenue and provide additional employment as well as business opportunities. Purchasing a single shot .22 plinking rifle would require a lower tier certification while a semi-automatic rifle would be much more involved at the highest tier. IMO, this would be a decent starting point. We’d still have to address gun theft, selling guns illegally, transferring gun ownership, etc., there will still be many of firearms out there that are “illegal” by type or due to the ownership (or lack thereof) status.

I own guns (yes, plural) as well.

Mandatory, recurrent training would be a great step after a strengthened background check and I like your ideas for it.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

I own guns (yes, plural) as well.

Mandatory, recurrent training would be a great step after a strengthened background check and I like your ideas for it.

I’m smarter than I look 😆

 

[jprue24]

I’m smarter than I look 😆

Let's not get carried away. You're more sensible* than you look.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Dude still won’t stand down even after being shot, geez!

 

[Blazers46]

Dude still won’t stand down even after being shot, geez!

He’s not as smart as he looks either… lol

 

[GATTACA!]

Personally, I have a couple of firearms so I’m solid on the right to bear them. However, we need more controls in place because there are just too many wildcard and criminal individuals that don’t have them for the “right” reasons such as defense, collecting and/or non-human target shooting. One way we could try to attack the problem is to make sure our background check system is strengthened to a degree. I think a reasonable waiting period is a good idea. More importantly, we could set up a tiered ownership program. If an individual wants to purchase a certain type of firearm, there is an applicable certification required that would involve training with the weapon, etc. The instructors would be well trained. This would actually generate revenue and provide additional employment as well as business opportunities. Purchasing a single shot .22 plinking rifle would require a lower tier certification while a semi-automatic rifle would be much more involved at the highest tier. IMO, this would be a decent starting point. We’d still have to address gun theft, selling guns illegally, transferring gun ownership, etc., there will still be many of firearms out there that are “illegal” by type or due to the ownership (or lack thereof) status.

Those tiers should also influence what the cool down time is between purchasing a gun and actually taking possession of it. You’re tier 1? You have to wait 3 weeks sorry. You're a tier 4 that owns a bunch of hunting rifles and gets deer tags every year? Here’s your gun.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

He’s not as smart as he looks either… lol

Fortunately you don’t know what I look like……but it would make you laugh 😆

 

[Blazers46]

Texas 'licensed-to-carry' bystander shot El Paso mall shooter as he targeted more would-be victims: police

El Paso, Texas police say that a licensed-to-carry bystander shot the suspect in a mall shooting on Wednesday, which was the result of a confrontation between two groups.

www.foxnews.com