Allen Iverson and Notre Dame

[IrishLax]

Truly excellent article on Bleacher Report. Crazy how much that site has evolved: An Icon at 40: The Untold Story of Allen Iverson | Bleacher Report

Insane to think that we lost both Randy Moss and Allen Iverson basically to racist white people in the Virginias. That's an over-simplification, but while I knew the Moss story I never knew Iverson was considered better than Vick and was headed to ND.

Lost in the carnage of what many, in hindsight, see as injustice was the fact that Iverson's football career was effectively over, something that angers Moore to this day.

"He was a far better football player than a basketball player," says Moore. "Far, far better. We talked about Notre Dame all the time. That was our dream. We watched the Fighting Irish on TV every Saturday. He was never supposed to be in the NBA. We were focused on the NFL. He should be in Canton as we speak."

People in the area still debate whether or not Michael Vick or Iverson was the better quarterback.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

And to think, the guy didn't even PRACTICE...

 

[KPENN]

Him and Moss woulda been teammates. Geez.

 

[texbender]

post traumatic depression

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Wow. I had no idea

 

[Irish YJ]

Does he have a tat of Lou?

 

[scUM Hater]

Does he have a tat of Lou?

Lou has a tat of Iverson

 

[NDPhilly]

As a Notre Dame and 76ers fan:

 

[IrishLax]

As a Notre Dame and 76ers fan:

My favorite episode of that show ever.

 

[GoldenDomer]

 

[kmoose]

I just can't see how this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/d29VsG35DQM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Could possibly have coexisted with this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/p1cYbsFE5hI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm not sure Iverson would ever have seen the field, unless he cleaned up his "me first" attitude.

 

[ACamp1900]

Because the current state of ND fandom just needed shiting on just a lil bit more.... Thx lax.....

 

[phork]

Thats crazy.. But I think the part about being in Canton is a stretch..

 

[phork]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hCAkVvNFk-0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

7 picks in one game.. Better on defense and as a kick returner..

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Allen Iverson and Notre Dame

7 picks in one game.. Better on defense and as a kick returner..

I would have quit throwing at him after the 6th pick personally.

 

[GoIrish41]

Truly excellent article on Bleacher Report. Crazy how much that site has evolved: An Icon at 40: The Untold Story of Allen Iverson | Bleacher Report

Insane to think that we lost both Randy Moss and Allen Iverson basically to racist white people in the Virginias. That's an over-simplification, but while I knew the Moss story I never knew Iverson was considered better than Vick and was headed to ND.

I lived in Hampton Roads back then and caught a few of his games his junior and final year of football. Iverson was hands down the best HS football player I have ever seen and have seen since. Keep in mind that Ronald Curry and Vick were right behind him as the next big thing. (Curry was the guy everyone talked about and Vick was an almost an afterthought at the time in the area). Neither Curry or Vick was in the same league as far as raw talent. But Iverson's antics in the bowling alley that got him in trouble were not overblown. He and his buds deserved to be locked up. They started a fight that erupted into a riot and some people got hurt because of it. That bowling alley was about a mile from my house and I knew some folks who were there that night and watched the whole deal unfold. Those boys went way too far -- throwing chairs and whatnot. But all that aside, Iverson was an incredible talent on the gridiron and on the court. I do think it may be a stretch to say he was far better at football than hoops but he was certainly just as good. Fast, quick, elite ball skills. He regularly made defenses look foolish, and he was an elite cover safety who would come up and lay the wood when he got the chance. His "street cred" was a bit overblown. He lived in a low-income neighborhood with all of the trials that come with it, but he didn't live in Compton. I always rolled my eyes when he would talk about living on the mean streats of Hampton, Va.

The infamous "We talkin 'bout practice" video posted above was only a portion of the press conference. I always thought that he was highly misunderstood in that clip. What he was actually doing during that press conference was calling into question the professionalism of the reporter who asked the question about practice, not the merits of practicing. His point was "you are a professional journalist, and I am here to answer questions about a game that everyone just watched, and you are asking me about practice." In addition, he broke down at the end of that press conference and discussed how one of his friends had died like a week before that, and that he really would rather be mourning his friend than spending time in a press conference ... at which the first question was discussing practice." That press conference contributed significantly to a lot of ill feelings about Allen Iverson, that I thought were not completely fair. There is a documentary that is currently playing on either HBO or Showtime that breaks down that whole press conference and plays it in its entirety. Pretty good documentary if anyone is interested.

I did not know that he had interest in Notre Dame. From all accounts, though, he was not a good enough student to be seriously considered a viable recruit at the university. He was out of this world on the football field and on the court, but he also was fairly notorious for skipping classes and barely scraping by in the classroom.

 

[RDU Irish]

Watching Iverson play basketball in person when we first joined the Big East, he was BY FAR the most athletic person I saw on the court at the JACC. Ray Allen was good but Allen Iverson was so unbelievably quick it was just incredible to watch. I had no idea he was a big time football prospect but I can imagine he would have given Allen Rossum a run for his money at kick/punt returns if nothing else.

That being said, it seems pretty stupid to think he somehow wasted an opportunity playing basketball instead of football. Dude made lots of cash in the NBA. Space between his ears was always his biggest liability.

 

[Irish#1]

Thank God he was never a serious consideration to play football here. I have a feeling between Iverson and Moss, Lou might have left sooner.

Guys that are exceptionally gifted athletes can usually play multiple sports and excel.

 

[Emcee77]

I lived in Hampton Roads back then and caught a few of his games his junior and final year of football. Iverson was hands down the best HS football player I have ever seen and have seen since. Keep in mind that Ronald Curry and Vick were right behind him as the next big thing. (Curry was the guy everyone talked about and Vick was an almost an afterthought at the time in the area). Neither Curry or Vick was in the same league as far as raw talent.

Yeah, and you are not alone in that opinion. Iverson was before my time, but I grew up in Virginia and my family has some football ties to the Tidewater area (my dad was briefly on the football team at William and Mary, and he has a number of football friends who have raised kids who played football in the area), and while I was growing up I routinely heard people say that Allen Iverson was the best high school football player they have ever seen. As GoIrish pointed out, that is really saying a lot in that region, which has produced countless football stars. He is truly a football legend in the area, maybe more so than basketball.

 

[kmoose]

The infamous "We talkin 'bout practice" video posted above was only a portion of the press conference. I always thought that he was highly misunderstood in that clip. What he was actually doing during that press conference was calling into question the professionalism of the reporter who asked the question about practice, not the merits of practicing. His point was "you are a professional journalist, and I am here to answer questions about a game that everyone just watched, and you are asking me about practice." In addition, he broke down at the end of that press conference and discussed how one of his friends had died like a week before that, and that he really would rather be mourning his friend than spending time in a press conference ... at which the first question was discussing practice." That press conference contributed significantly to a lot of ill feelings about Allen Iverson, that I thought were not completely fair.

You don't think it is fair, or professional, for a reporter to ask a player for his thoughts on the coach's comments about him?
Larry Brown had been critical of Iverson's practice habits in comments to the media the week before. The reporter was simply giving Iverson a chance to tell the story from his side. I'm pretty sure that is fair, professional, and basic Journalism 101?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Looks like Golson in some of those highlights at QB.

Insane. My mind is seriously blown. I had no clue Iverson was so good at football and wanted to go to ND.

That article was really good, btw. Worth the time.

 

[GoIrish41]

You don't think it is fair, or professional, for a reporter to ask a player for his thoughts on the coach's comments about him?
Larry Brown had been critical of Iverson's practice habits in comments to the media the week before. The reporter was simply giving Iverson a chance to tell the story from his side. I'm pretty sure that is fair, professional, and basic Journalism 101?

What I did not think was fair is that they took his answer out of context and made it sound like he was saying something that he was not. He was not saying that practice was not important. He was questioning how important the question was given that "we just lost a big game and you are asking me questions about practice." A small piece of the clip is all most people have seen, and that was not at all what he was saying. I'm not even defending what he said, his reasoning, or the way he said it, but he has been deomonized ever since for being a guy who didn't think he had to practice when that is not at all what he said. When most folks think of Allen Iverson, they think of a guy who didn't give a crap about practicing. He probably should have answered the question straight up and dropped the attitude. And, the asking of the question by the reporters was not at all unprofessional, but certainly taking the answer out of context was not fair, professional, and, absolutely the opposite of Journalism 101.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yeah, and you are not alone in that opinion. Iverson was before my time, but I grew up in Virginia and my family has some football ties to the Tidewater area (my dad was briefly on the football team at William and Mary, and he has a number of football friends who have raised kids who played football in the area), and while I was growing up I routinely heard people say that Allen Iverson was the best high school football player they have ever seen. As GoIrish pointed out, that is really saying a lot in that region, which has produced countless football stars. He is truly a football legend in the area, maybe more so than basketball.

The list of football standouts from that area is really amazing. It would be amazing to be even considered in the conversation with players like Hall of Famers Bruce Smith, Dwight Stephenson and L.T. Forget that guys like Ken Easly, DeAngelo Hall, Ronald Curry, Al Toon, Michael Vick, Paxico Burress, Aaron Brooks, Deon Dyer, Chris Slade, Terry Kirby, Dre' Bly, Chris Crocker, Darren Perry, William Fuller, and many more also played in that area, too.

Iverson is widely regarded as better than all of them as a player in HS. And he never even played his senior year. It is absolutely crazy how good he was. He is also considered the best basketball player from that area compared to a pretty substantial list of stars who played there.

 

[kmoose]

What I did not think was fair is that they took his answer out of context and made it sound like he was saying something that he was not. He was not saying that practice was not important. He was questioning how important the question was given that "we just lost a big game and you are asking me questions about practice." A small piece of the clip is all most people have seen, and that was not at all what he was saying. I'm not even defending what he said, his reasoning, or the way he said it, but he has been deomonized ever since for being a guy who didn't think he had to practice when that is not at all what he said. When most folks think of Allen Iverson, they think of a guy who didn't give a crap about practicing. He probably should have answered the question straight up and dropped the attitude. And, the asking of the question by the reporters was not at all unprofessional, but certainly taking the answer out of context was not fair, professional, and, absolutely the opposite of Journalism 101.

Taking the whole interview into account, it was clear that Iverson thought that no one should question him at all, that he was above all of that;

Franchise players don't go through this. Franchise player's daughters don't have to go to school and hear is your daddy coming back? What's going on with your daddy and Coach Brown and yadayada?

Iverson also was vilified because he was known to be a selfish player. I don't think people associate Iverson with not wanting to practice; I think they associate him with an incredible sense of ego and entitlement, and they throw the practice rant out as a prime example of that.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Freak athlete, yes. Capable of nearly winning BBall games on his own, yes. Desirable team player, no. Debates may rage but as Iverson would get comfortable with a situation, he'd go out of control. Even John Thompson said he'd take one of his rock solid point guards {I forget which one he mentioned] over Iverson to found a team around. As his career "moved forward", he was impossible to play either against or with --- poison both ways. His swan song with Detroit was a catastrophe.

Moss came from my home state and was notoriously an immature jerk. Fabulous football player, yes. Fabulous BBall player, yes. ... same Iverson song. When even Florida State passes on you so that you have to go to Marshall, you have a hint. Randy Moss MAY have eventually grown up, but it happened FAR after his college days. I'm not sure how much evidence exists that Iverson grew up. Hopefully he has.

 

[phork]

Moss never grew up. As evidenced by his departure with the Patriots. Some of these guys will just never understand the team thing, even though they talk a good game.

And whoever it was who said he looks like Golson, you forgot the italics to denote the sarcasm. Golson never looked like that..

 

[IrishLax]

Moss never grew up. As evidenced by his departure with the Patriots. Some of these guys will just never understand the team thing, even though they talk a good game.

And whoever it was who said he looks like Golson, you forgot the italics to denote the sarcasm. Golson never looked like that..

I always wonder though if you gave these guys a mentor like Holtz, what happens? They get run off the team? Or they change their way of operating? 18 years old is still young enough to be molded.

I wonder the same thing about Winston. Stanford was his (distant) second choice to FSU. If he goes there instead of to Tallahassee -- where it's an environment of enablers and criminal sympathizers -- what happens?

 

[RDU Irish]

I always wonder though if you gave these guys a mentor like Holtz, what happens? They get run off the team? Or they change their way of operating? 18 years old is still young enough to be molded.

I wonder the same thing about Winston. Stanford was his (distant) second choice to FSU. If he goes there instead of to Tallahassee -- where it's an environment of enablers and criminal sympathizers -- what happens?

You sound like a sell-out Uncle Tom, MFer! You need to respect where you come from so you can represent.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I like to believe happy things about redemptions and lifepath changes too, but Notre Dame accepted one of Moss' teammates at Dupont High School that year and even his good example had not rubbed off on Randy. {his teammate was a very good starting linebacker for us, so no slouch}. The other teammate, a freaky BBall guard, went to Florida, and the NBA, and still didn't grow up as far as I could see. One "good egg", a Notre Dame man, and two odoriferous ones. ND can't do "social work" for everyone, especially with 85-100 man teams.

 

[RDU Irish]

Bobby Howard is an awesome dude. Having him "mentor" Moss would have probably been more impactful than anything the coaches would have said. Quite humble kid, really grew up at ND and came to the realization that he can hang with all those privileged white kids, in and out of the classroom.

While I didn't have to wrestle with the racial component, I totally get the mindset coming out of a rural area. I didn't know Bobby grew up with Moss until a few years ago when I saw the 30 for 30. Seeing where he grew up I have an even deeper appreciation.