All Things SkunkBear

[MacIrish75]

What isn’t satire is that Underwood was MEGA cheeks in that Spring Game.

 

[dublinirish]

 

[Blazers46]

I hope they ask her about Connor Stallions.

 

[dublinirish]

 

[Fbolt]

Zero sympathy for her with those alligator tears. It probably means I'm a bad person, and I'm ok with that.

 

[sfk324]

It was an open secret, so according to her, she knew that they knew she was lying when she denied it, yet she lied anyway. Whose fault is that, exactly? If you had concerns about your ability to get out, that was your out, and you didn't take it. Why?

It's also amusing that she says he had complete control over her. Well, yeah, genius, that's why it's against school policy. Moral of the story: don't fuck your boss, and especially don't fuck your boss who is married with kids.

The only place I feel bad for her is that she had to deal with his crashout. Beyond that, I have zero sympathy for her being in the position she is at this point, just like I don't have any sympathy for Russini being out of a job. You're an adult. You made these choices.

 

[greyhammer90]

Zero sympathy for her with those alligator tears. It probably means I'm a bad person, and I'm ok with that.

I think its a two way street. Young people can do bad things and should be held accountable for those bad things. She knew she was doing something selfish and gross and will need to live with that. That being said, young people are also more likely to engage in risky and morally questionable behavior without thinking through or understanding long term consequences, especially when encouraged by older people in positions of power or if the system they're in give tacit approval. I think ending up on GMA as "contrite whore of the week" wasn't even a remote possibility that ran through her mind when she decided to reciprocate Moore's interest. Life comes at you fast.

 

[sfk324]

I think its a two way street. Young people can do bad things and should be held accountable for those bad things. She knew she was doing something selfish and gross and will need to live with that. That being said, young people are also more likely to engage in risky and morally questionable behavior without thinking through or understanding long term consequences, especially when encouraged by older people in positions of power. I think ending up on GMA as "contrite whore of the week" wasn't even a remote possibility that ran through her mind when she decided to reciprocate Moore's interest. Life comes at you fast.

She's not that young. She's 32 now. She was 28 when this started. She was at least 30 when she lied to the University about their relationship. This is an adult woman who should be capable of making appropriate choices. Then again, she was 28 and working as an intern,.so...

 

[irishnd31]

 

[greyhammer90]

She's not that young. She's 32 now. She was 28 when this started. She was at least 30 when she lied to the University about their relationship. This is an adult woman who should be capable of making appropriate choices. Then again, she was 28 and working as an intern,.so...

Where did I say she wasn't capable? My point is that people should be responsible for their behavior, but systems should also be built to assume that people are bad actors. I don't need to "feel bad" for her to acknowledge that there was almost certainly and power and financial dynamic aspect of this that incentived his/her behavior and schools would do well to look into how they can structure "trust but verify" in a way that disincentivizes both the coach and the intern from putting themselves in these situations.

Maybe its impossible and Michigan was just unlucky, but as a fan of a team with a coach who is famously good looking, I hope ND isn't just saying "that would never happen here" and not looking into their own structure.

 

[IrishLax]

She's not that young. She's 32 now. She was 28 when this started. She was at least 30 when she lied to the University about their relationship. This is an adult woman who should be capable of making appropriate choices. Then again, she was 28 and working as an intern,.so...

She was directly profiting off of her choices and then once she faced complications / consequences she has to play the "helpless victim" to escape accountability. It's the same playbook every time, no different than the HR lady at the Coldplay concert or hundreds of other instances.

 

[sfk324]

Where did I say she wasn't capable? My point is that people should be responsible for their behavior, but systems should also be built to assume that people are bad actors. I don't need to "feel bad" for her to acknowledge that there was almost certainly and power and financial dynamic aspect of this that incentived his/her behavior and schools would do well to look into how they can structure "trust but verify" in a way that disincentivizes both the coach and the intern from putting themselves in these situations.

Maybe its impossible and Michigan was just unlucky, but as a fan of a team with a coach who is famously good looking, I hope ND isn't just saying "that would never happen here" and not looking into their own structure.

Your comment is flush with "oh she's young, young people make mistakes." She's not young and she wasn't at any point during this whole thing.

And what other system is there beyond investigating the reports? That sounds like trust but verify to me. "Well, we're hearing some things, and we're trying to separate facts from idle gossip, so what can you tell us?" She lied to them when they asked, despite it being "an open secret." She is essentially saying that they knew about it, and she knew that they knew, but she lied anyway. She wasn't going to get a better opportunity to get out or at least find some balance in the dynamic, but she didn't take it. Which raises two questions : 1. Why did she lie? and 2. What else is the university supposed to do? If it was the open secret she claims, they both should have been fired at that point for lack of candor. Of course, then she would be on GMA crying about being fired when she didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Old Man Mike]

My Dad taught his boys that it was NEVER OK to exert your power over a woman.
I'm standing with him on this.
(yeh, women and girls can make bad choices giving in to us too. That's not my side of the moral choice.)

 

[sfk324]

She was directly profiting off of her choices and then once she faced complications / consequences she has to play the "helpless victim" to escape accountability. It's the same playbook every time, no different than the HR lady at the Coldplay concert or hundreds of other instances.

The whole thing reeks of him stringing her along with the whole he loves her and they'll be together soon, but it's just not the right time shtick until at some point she gave him an ultimatum, he said he can't leave his wife and kids, so now she wants out.

 

[greyhammer90]

Your comment is flush with "oh she's young, young people make mistakes." She's not young and she wasn't at any point during this whole thing.

And what other system is there beyond investigating the reports? That sounds like trust but verify to me. "Well, we're hearing some things, and we're trying to separate facts from idle gossip, so what can you tell us?" She lied to them when they asked, despite it being "an open secret." She is essentially saying that they knew about it, and she knew that they knew, but she lied anyway. She wasn't going to get a better opportunity to get out or at least find some balance in the dynamic, but she didn't take it. Which raises two questions : 1. Why did she lie? and 2. What else is the university supposed to do? If it was the open secret she claims, they both should have been fired at that point for lack of candor. Of course, then she would be on GMA crying about being fired when she didn't do anything wrong.

You're misinterpreting. My point was that young people are often stupid, not that young people deserve special sympathy for being morally bad actors. Stupid people don't think things through and don't understand how serious the situations they are in are. Even if you don't think 28 years old is young in the context of the situation, I think we can agree she's stupid.

I think your question of whether or not a simple interview was enough is more in line with my real point. I've done employment dispute interviews and investigations many times so I guess I'm just weirdly interested in this stuff. If it was an open secret, why didn't anyone else come forward? What does that say about your reporting structure that you're relying on interviews with the accused as the primary way to make decisions? Why was the head coach of a billion dollar org in so many private situations with a dumbass intern?

 

[IrishLax]

You're misinterpreting. My point was that young people are often stupid, not that young people deserve special sympathy for being morally bad actors. Stupid people don't think things through and don't understand how serious the situations they are in are. Even if you don't think 28 years old is young in the context of the situation, I think we can agree she's stupid.

I think your question of whether or not a simple interview was enough is more in line with my real point. I've done employment dispute interviews and investigations many times so I guess I'm just weirdly interested in this stuff. If it was an open secret, why didn't anyone else come forward? What does that say about your reporting structure that you're relying on interviews with the accused as the primary way to make decisions? Why was the head coach of a billion dollar org in so many private situations with a dumbass intern?

This is, in my opinion, the only part of this that is particularly novel and interesting at this point. It seems clear to me that in the aftermath of Spygate 2: Electric Boogaloo there just continued to be a culture of criminality and low ethics that permeated every part of Michigan football. You would've thought that they would've cleaned house but they clearly went the opposite direction. The shear number of coaches from that Harbaugh staff that have either been banned / suspended from NCAA football or involved in something criminal is astounding.

Kyle Whittingham is the best thing to have ever happened to that program and I would love to know how he has navigated their toxic culture relative to what he built over decades at Utah.

 

[tirishman505]

This is, in my opinion, the only part of this that is particularly novel and interesting at this point. It seems clear to me that in the aftermath of Spygate 2: Electric Boogaloo there just continued to be a culture of criminality and low ethics that permeated every part of Michigan football. You would've thought that they would've cleaned house but they clearly went the opposite direction. The shear number of coaches from that Harbaugh staff that have either been banned / suspended from NCAA football or involved in something criminal is astounding.

Kyle Whittingham is the best thing to have ever happened to that program and I would love to know how he has navigated their toxic culture relative to what he built over decades at Utah.

I'm happy to throw Michigan under the bus, but by all accounts the rumors did reach the powers that be, they investigated more than once including asking both parties multiple times if they were in a relationship. Both Moore and Shiver lied every time. Absent other facts I'm chalking this up to Michigan hitting the limits a non-legal entity has when it comes to "investigations". Because what if the rumors were false? If Michigan takes action without any "proof" then they're opened up to liability on the other side of this.

It's tiring to see adults make poor choices, and when things turn south they point to the largest money bag and say the equivalent of "they should have stopped me".

 

[Irish#1]

Everyone associated with their athletics and administration should be held accountable in one form or another. When you have rumors circulating like they were, even if they denied it, the proof is out there. You just need the will to go find it. She's a victim, Sherrone's a victim and UM is a victim. Sure.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The New England Patriots would have just sent them all to therapy.

 

[Blazers46]

It’s one thing if Michigan knew but it’s what you can prove. They can say no and you basically have to move on unless there was some sort of Michigan Assistants Gone Wild video coming out of her and Coach on the party bus. You discipline Paige or the Head man at any D1 university without hard proof, good luck. And it’s Michigan, it was relevant information until it needed to be.

 

[greyhammer90]

The New England Patriots would have just sent them all to therapy.

With a spa so they can relieve stress afterwards.

 

[Irish Norseman]

Fuck Michigan. Slimy unethical pieces of shit.