‘23 VA ATH Brandyn Hillman (Michigan Verbal)

[PutuporShutup]

The academic support at ND for athletes is extremely good though just because he went to a bad HS and may have had middling grades does not mean he couldn’t have done well at ND


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This, plus he has a child with most likely minimal support

 

[PutuporShutup]

I'm guessing there's plenty of academic support available at his HS too.

HS IS NOT HARD

I have a child, I can’t imagine having a baby towards the end of HS.

I don’t know what role child played, my guess is a lot. It may have been opportunity for ND to not be so black and white for a very unique situation, if you believed in him.

 

[irishff1014]

This, plus he has a child with most likely minimal support

That’s not the universities fault he decided to have kid in high school. And if that affected him there than it will affect him here.

I am not knocking the young guy but he didn’t have to get her pregnant. There’s way for this to not happen. And even at Michigan it’s gonna be hard. He’s away from his young child and he is going to miss things that happen. It’s unfortunate but 💯 preventable.

I am glad he owned up to his part that shows he is maturing. This is when you will really see him grow.

 

[stlnd01]

Indiana Mouse his first class was this class and it slid from #1 to #3 to #5 and then #9. Its better than an average Kelly class. I recognize that. But its not elite. Its not shopping down a "different aisle". Its not very far from a Kelly class. The next issue is whether Freeman can get as much out of his recruits as Kelly got out of his recruits. If so, then CFP should happen but I doubt that will happen. Kelly does get a lot out of his players.

A team's recruiting ranking in June matters about as much as its AP poll ranking in August.

As for Hillman, I do wonder how much of this can be traced to his being a late bloomer. We - and pretty much everyone else - didn't offer him until September of his senior year. That doesn't leave much time to get his coursework in order, compared with the kids we are on when they are juniors or even sooner. Just one semester, really, and it's easy for something to go sideways.

 

[Irishdrunk]

A team's recruiting ranking in June matters about as much as its AP poll ranking in August.

As for Hillman, I do wonder how much of this can be traced to his being a late bloomer. We - and pretty much everyone else - didn't offer him until September of his senior year. That doesn't leave much time to get his coursework in order, compared with the kids we are on when they are juniors or even sooner. Just one semester, really, and it's easy for something to go sideways.

Well I agree about the final rankings matter. 2024's class will likely be similar to 2023 when all is said and done. Top 8 - 15 as the Top 100 kids choose later and many programs like Bama, LSU, USC, OSU, Florida will land these kids. Freeman is not this elite recruiter as initially thought. He may be more active than Kelly but he still can't out-recruit ND's limitations.

What coursework wasn't good enough for ND but was good enough - immediately - for Michigan? Love to know what happened.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Yet, we got these insane conspiracy theorist posts about the admin intentionally bombing Freeman’s tenure. Just some insanely stupid shit.

 

[IrishLion]

Well I agree about the final rankings matter. 2024's class will likely be similar to 2023 when all is said and done. Top 8 - 15 as the Top 100 kids choose later and many programs like Bama, LSU, USC, OSU, Florida will land these kids. Freeman is not this elite recruiter as initially thought. He may be more active than Kelly but he still can't out-recruit ND's limitations.

What coursework wasn't good enough for ND but was good enough - immediately - for Michigan? Love to know what happened.

I think he is. The Blue Chip Ratio from the last class backs that up.

Landing "High" 4-star guys makes a huge difference in that regard, and Freeman does that at a better rate than BK.

BK was a master of grabbing RKG's that were borderline 3/4-star kids, that would get the ND bump to 4-star status with reasonable projections.

Freeman is grabbing guys that are more firmly entrenched as 4-star guys, trending closer to the 5-star category.

So even though the class numbers/rankings appear to be similar, Freeman's class is weighted with guys a bit more likely to pan out and be difference makers.

The questions remains: can he learn on the job fast enough to avoid the Marshalls and the Stanfords. It took BK 7+ years to figure out how to consistently avoid letdowns against less-talented teams.

 

[Huntr]

I appreciate all the middle-aged White dudes in this thread describing the complexities, or lack thereof, of navigating life as a young Black man as he tries to qualify for entrance to one of the most prestigious universities in the nation.

Thanks for telling us all how it is.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I appreciate all the middle-aged White dudes in this thread describing the complexities, or lack thereof, of navigating life as a young Black man as he tries to qualify for entrance to one of the most prestigious universities in the nation.

Thanks for telling us all how it is.

Is this 1950?

Also this is more about ND than Hillman.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Admin did not screw this up for the football program. Brandyn screwed this up. If ND is clear and up front about what it takes for admission, they do not need to lower the bar for kids who have the opportunity but fail to do their part to meet the standard.
As much as I would love for them to win a natty again soon, you need to come to grips that you are cheering for a football program that has high academic and admission standards and wont compromise. Its as simple as that and I am sure MF understood that when he took the job. People need to stop acting like he is some sort of victim here.

I repeat.

If ND is requiring a player do something to gain admittance that no other peer program is requiring, that is a problem.

If Vanderbilt, Michigan and Virginia can find a way to make it work, then ND can. And by all accounts they could have and chose not to.

Also, this notion that ND won't compromise is nonsense. They compromise all the time. If they didn't, nearly all of the football players wouldn't get in.

I'm not going to pretend like we know Brandyn's situation. Given the timeline, since he was a late offer, he could've had minimal time to complete what he needed. What we do know based on what was reported, is ND's admissions could have made it work but didn't want to.

So yeah, ND doesn't get a pass here. Virtually every other elite university recruiting Hillman found a way. Hillman's an 18 year old. ND is a multi-billion dollar entity with immense resources. They can and should have made it work.

 

[Irishdrunk]

I appreciate all the middle-aged White dudes in this thread describing the complexities, or lack thereof, of navigating life as a young Black man as he tries to qualify for entrance to one of the most prestigious universities in the nation.

Thanks for telling us all how it is.

So there is a racial component that I didn’t know??? So white kids are more likely to get their course work in compliance but black students less so….

Thank for letting me know. Michigan Admissions probably understood this as well.

 

[allenm5333]

I repeat.

If ND is requiring a player do something to gain admittance that no other peer program is requiring, that is a problem.

If Vanderbilt, Michigan and Virginia can find a way to make it work, then ND can. And by all accounts they could have and chose not to.

Also, this notion that ND won't compromise is nonsense. They compromise all the time. If they didn't, nearly all of the football players wouldn't get in.

I'm not going to pretend like we know Brandyn's situation. Given the timeline, since he was a late offer, he could've had minimal time to complete what he needed. What we do know based on what was reported, is ND's admissions could have made it work but didn't want to.

So yeah, ND doesn't get a pass here. Virtually every other elite university recruiting Hillman found a way. Hillman's an 18 year old. ND is a multi-billion dollar entity with immense resources. They can and should have made it work.

Those schools could be throwing schollys at him to get in the game before they review transcripts...

 

[Free Manera]

Lloyd is still on his soapbox saying ND could have and should have admitted him.

 

[NDFAN420]

I appreciate all the middle-aged White dudes in this thread describing the complexities, or lack thereof, of navigating life as a young Black man as he tries to qualify for entrance to one of the most prestigious universities in the nation.

Thanks for telling us all how it is.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I appreciate all the middle-aged White dudes in this thread describing the complexities, or lack thereof, of navigating life as a young Black man as he tries to qualify for entrance to one of the most prestigious universities in the nation.

Thanks for telling us all how it is.

I have an Eddie Vedder playlist that is absolutely dope, man. Seriously.

 

[ND87]

I repeat.

If ND is requiring a player do something to gain admittance that no other peer program is requiring, that is a problem.

Hard disagree.
The University came first, football later, and the standard/aspiration of educational excellence will remain.
lowering standards starts a race to the bottom.
ND's academics is its key differentiator, and should remain so.
yeah, I'd love to see a NC, but not at the cost of undermining what ND stands for. (though one could argue it's already done so in many other areas)

 

[Luckylucci]

Lloyd is still on his soapbox saying ND could have and should have admitted him.

Just now seeing this. Right on que, Loy huffing farts out of bus seats. Brutal.

 

[GoIrish41]

I mean, what options does Marcus Freeman have in that case?

Hillman was a late offer, so there isn't exactly a lot of time to adjust. Not to mention, Hillman was a backup plan due to Bowen wavering.

Freeman has to believe that his bosses will do something to back him up. Doesn't help to know that ND could have made it work, but chose not to. Meanwhile, Michigan could have made it work and DID. That has to be infuriating if I'm Freeman.

ND is unwilling to give him the necessary tools to hold onto an elite recruit in Bowen, meanwhile, they're not even willing to budge on admissions to get his backup plan.

Thankfully, he at least got 2 safeties, unlike Kelly and receivers in '22, when things were apparent.

It's also very possible that ND's admissions didn't communicate this with Freeman, since it sounds like it was a very late call on not admitting Hillman. This isn't exactly a common scenario. Usually if a kid isn't admitted, this is known prior to them signing their NLI.

It seems unlikely to me that Freeman would tell a lie during a press conference about a kid he recruited. He said it was Hillman’s decision to leave. That’s not a vague statement. I guess it doesn’t put a pin in the “it’s admissions fault” arguments, but it’s pretty close. Shame the kid left, but you’d have to believe that the coach slandered a kid publicly to keep blaming the admin for this. Is that where we’re at. Damn I’m glad spring ball started so we can put recruiting on the back burner for a while.

 

[Crazy Balki]

It seems unlikely to me that Freeman would tell a lie during a press conference about a kid he recruited. He said it was Hillman’s decision to leave. That’s not a vague statement. I guess it doesn’t put a pin in the “it’s admissions fault” arguments, but it’s pretty close. Shame the kid left, but you’d have to believe that the coach slandered a kid publicly to keep blaming the admin for this. Is that where we’re at. Damn I’m glad spring ball started so we can put recruiting on the back burner for a while.

Hillman himself indicated that ND had requirements for him to be admitted that he could not meet.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Hard disagree.
The University came first, football later, and the standard/aspiration of educational excellence will remain.
lowering standards starts a race to the bottom.
ND's academics is its key differentiator, and should remain so.
yeah, I'd love to see a NC, but not at the cost of undermining what ND stands for. (though one could argue it's already done so in many other areas)

Who said anything about lowering standards? If we're talking admissions, that already happens, but ND should be more flexible.

I've said over and over again that ND shouldn't abandon their expectations for their players when they get admitted. However, if ND is requiring students meet a certain requirement(s) that none of their peer academic universities are requiring, that is a problem.

You can be more flexible in accepting athletes (and this extends to the portal) WHILE ALSO holding them accountable when they show up. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If a dude can hack it at Vanderbilt or Michigan, I like his chances at ND.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Who said anything about lowering standards? If we're talking admissions, that already happens, but ND should be more flexible.

I've said over and over again that ND shouldn't abandon their expectations for their players when they get admitted. However, if ND is requiring students meet a certain requirement(s) that none of their peer academic universities are requiring, that is a problem.

You can be more flexible in accepting athletes (and this extends to the portal) WHILE ALSO holding them accountable when they show up. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If a dude can hack it at Vanderbilt or Michigan, I like his chances at ND.

You’re not really in a position to tell ND what they should or shouldnt do about managing their admissions because its how you think it should be though. It is not a problem that getting into ND as a football player is harder than getting into Michigan.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Hillman himself indicated that ND had requirements for him to be admitted that he could not meet.

How do you know that the groundwork for Hillman was not laid out for him to meet the requirements but that he failed to complete what was needed? I think that’s the most likely scenario here. Sure, I’d like ND to be more flexible but if they provide an avenue for recruits to be admitted but the recruit doesn’t follow through, you have to fault the recruit to some degree.

 

[ab2cmiller]

How do you know that the groundwork for Hillman was not laid out for him to meet the requirements but that he failed to complete what was needed? I think that’s the most likely scenario here. Sure, I’d like ND to be more flexible but if they provide an avenue for recruits to be admitted but the recruit doesn’t follow through, you have to fault the recruit to some degree.

I don't think he was implying anything. I'm assuming the intent of his post was that Hillman "did not" meet the requirements as opposed to "could not" which might be interpreted differently.

 

[stlnd01]

How do you know that the groundwork for Hillman was not laid out for him to meet the requirements but that he failed to complete what was needed? I think that’s the most likely scenario here. Sure, I’d like ND to be more flexible but if they provide an avenue for recruits to be admitted but the recruit doesn’t follow through, you have to fault the recruit to some degree.

That is basically what Hillman said happened. There were a set of expectations/requirements. He knew what they were. He didn't meet them.

We don't know exactly what they were or why he didn't meet them, but it's probably some coursework that Notre Dame requires and other schools don't (foreign language?). It has nothing to do with the US News rankings of the various schools involved here. Notre Dame could decide not to require those courses (of all students or only of scholarship athletes?), but that's Notre Dame's choice to make, not ours.

 

[indianamouse]

Who said anything about lowering standards? If we're talking admissions, that already happens, but ND should be more flexible.

I've said over and over again that ND shouldn't abandon their expectations for their players when they get admitted. However, if ND is requiring students meet a certain requirement(s) that none of their peer academic universities are requiring, that is a problem.

You can be more flexible in accepting athletes (and this extends to the portal) WHILE ALSO holding them accountable when they show up. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If a dude can hack it at Vanderbilt or Michigan, I like his chances at ND.

Funny how all the other athletes met requirements

 

[GoIrish41]

Hillman himself indicated that ND had requirements for him to be admitted that he could not meet.

I know. How’s that on the admin?

 

[T-Boone]

I reckon ND needs to add a requirement that everyone on the coaching staff has to be enrolled in a degree and attend classes etc

 

[T-Boone]

If he has a kid (sounds aweful he would be sensible to go wherever he gets the most money.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I know. How’s that on the admin?

Because he qualified for as good or better academic schools in a day

 

[GoIrish41]

Because he qualified for as good or better academic schools in a day

So it is about lowering standards.