‘23 VA ATH Brandyn Hillman (Michigan Verbal)

[GATTACA!]

Idk what you guys are all bitching about. From up on my high horse things look totally fine.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Lewis will move to safety Id move one of the other corns or cross train them

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Maybe this gets blamed on the administration, but Freeman hot seat starts now. He was explicitly brought into raise the roof on recruiting, and his first full class is now a middle-of-the-road (or slightly above average) Kelly class. If he can't get us back to average Kelly results next year, what's the point?

 

[stlnd01]

Maybe this gets blamed on the administration, but Freeman hot seat starts now. He was explicitly brought into raise the roof on recruiting, and his first full class is now a middle-of-the-road (or slightly above average) Kelly class. If he can't get us back to average Kelly results next year, what's the point?

Maybe let’s see how he does at the coaching part for a bit?

 

[Crazy Balki]

Maybe this gets blamed on the administration, but Freeman hot seat starts now. He was explicitly brought into raise the roof on recruiting, and his first full class is now a middle-of-the-road (or slightly above average) Kelly class. If he can't get us back to average Kelly results next year, what's the point?

Kelly didn't have to deal with the elephant in the room of NIL.

And compounded to that is the reality that ND could have made this work and chose not to.

None of that is on Freeman. He should expect his bosses to back him up. ND as an administration has to be held accountable for that.

 

[DillonHall]

"Not to much to say"

Actually, that says it all.

Totally agree. The kid doesn't know basic grammar. Everyone else on the roster made it through admissions...

 

[Sea Turtle]

Somebody on Irish Breakdown was asking about Hillman being denied with other good schools interested and Vince gave kind of a smug answer and he was called arrogant.
He got pretty animated after that and even got pissed when he was asked about undergrad transfers next. The older guy had to kind of calm down and smooth over the answer. It was just kind of funny.

 

[FWIrish4]

Maybe this gets blamed on the administration, but Freeman hot seat starts now. He was explicitly brought into raise the roof on recruiting, and his first full class is now a middle-of-the-road (or slightly above average) Kelly class. If he can't get us back to average Kelly results next year, what's the point?

Kelly’s average recruiting class cannot be anchored to his 2013 and his 2021 class. Those were his best classes by far and 2021 was mainly due to Freeman. We need to stop pretending those were the norm with him as the coach.

Adding context from Jamie at ISD: 6 Thoughts on a Thursday

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Maybe let’s see how he does at the coaching part for a bit?

Yep for sure. Last year was mediocre at best. Another season of 9-3 would be not ideal.

Kelly didn't have to deal with the elephant in the room of NIL.

And compounded to that is the reality that ND could have made this work and chose not to.

None of that is on Freeman. He should expect his bosses to back him up. ND as an administration has to be held accountable for that.

Okay. But look, the reality of being "the guy" in a position as prominent as ND Head Football Coach is ultimately, it IS all on you. You get all the glory when things go right. The other side of that coin is that when things go wrong, at the end of the day it is always your problem.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Yep for sure. Last year was mediocre at best. Another season of 9-3 would be not ideal.



Okay. But look, the reality of being "the guy" in a position as prominent as ND Head Football Coach is ultimately, it IS all on you. You get all the glory when things go right. The other side of that coin is that when things go wrong, at the end of the day it is always your problem.

No, that's not how it works.

The old saying goes, "shit rolls down hill".

This would be another story if it were due to assistants not putting in the effort and Freeman wasn't holding them accountable like Kelly.

That isn't the case here. Freeman's efforts on the trail are being impeded because ND's leadership won't get out of their own way. Between admissions (both with Hillman and in general with undergrad transfers) and their refusal to do more to help the NIL collectives. Those are not things that Freeman can control, thus it's ridiculous to say it's all on him.

The administration are the ones who can make those changes. Freeman has no say in deciding what they do in those situations. Freeman has to work around what they decide, but at the end of the day, he can only do so much when he's handicapped this much. This is a new era of CFB and ND has to adjust and has yet to do so.

That falls on the administration. Period. If they're serious about competing for championships, then they will have to adjust. If not, then things will remain the same. Seems like so far, ND is content with the latter.

 

[notredomer23]

Someone burn this thread to the ground please. It’s finished

 

[Sea Turtle]

No, that's not how it works.

The old saying goes, "shit rolls down hill".

This would be another story if it were due to assistants not putting in the effort and Freeman wasn't holding them accountable like Kelly.

That isn't the case here. Freeman's efforts on the trail are being impeded because ND's leadership won't get out of their own way. Between admissions (both with Hillman and in general with undergrad transfers) and their refusal to do more to help the NIL collectives. Those are not things that Freeman can control, thus it's ridiculous to say it's all on him.

The administration are the ones who can make those changes. Freeman has no say in deciding what they do in those situations. Freeman has to work around what they decide, but at the end of the day, he can only do so much when he's handicapped this much. This is a new era of CFB and ND has to adjust and has yet to do so.

That falls on the administration. Period. If they're serious about competing for championships, then they will have to adjust. If not, then things will remain the same. Seems like so far, ND is content with the latter.

This post is so good that a tear rolled down my face, turned into an eagle and flew away.

 

[stlnd01]

The bigger risk than Freeman being on the hot seat and getting fired is Freeman throwing up his hands in frustration and leaving for a lateral job.

 

[Irish4life]

The bigger risk than Freeman being on the hot seat and getting fired is Freeman throwing up his hands in frustration and leaving for a lateral job.

No way in hell lol

 

[PutuporShutup]

Wouldn't be as big of a deal if we actually landed folks like Bowen or Nwankpa. Hillman should be the high-ceiling athlete that we have absolutely nothing to lose by taking a flyer on. Instead we backed into a situation where, not only was he retroactively a need, but we fucking let him walk into a rival's arms. Sickening from start to finish here. And don't give me any Minich bullshit - he's mid at best.

This…. ND is always trying to make excuses for not winning big. Examples are not paying coaches what it takes them overpaying others, not letting players in, not having a plan for nil, etc etc. Almost all are BS

 

[Crazy Balki]

I don’t disagree with your overall point regarding Freeman. However, who is responsible for monitoring the academic progress of signed recruits? It’s been clear for a while now that the football program and admissions have not been in full alignment with each other, so I would imagine the football staff has to be extra diligent regarding the academic monitoring of borderline recruits who sign with them. Who on the staff has this responsibility or this not a thing? It would be nice to say it’s up to the player, but if academic struggles are already preexisting, the terms of acceptance require a different kind of follow-through knowing admissions will wreck the party without hesitation.

I mean, what options does Marcus Freeman have in that case?

Hillman was a late offer, so there isn't exactly a lot of time to adjust. Not to mention, Hillman was a backup plan due to Bowen wavering.

Freeman has to believe that his bosses will do something to back him up. Doesn't help to know that ND could have made it work, but chose not to. Meanwhile, Michigan could have made it work and DID. That has to be infuriating if I'm Freeman.

ND is unwilling to give him the necessary tools to hold onto an elite recruit in Bowen, meanwhile, they're not even willing to budge on admissions to get his backup plan.

Thankfully, he at least got 2 safeties, unlike Kelly and receivers in '22, when things were apparent.

It's also very possible that ND's admissions didn't communicate this with Freeman, since it sounds like it was a very late call on not admitting Hillman. This isn't exactly a common scenario. Usually if a kid isn't admitted, this is known prior to them signing their NLI.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I’m not sure how it works in admissions entirely, but my presumption was that he was initially admitted under stipulations that he didn’t meet between the time of him signing until recent. But who knows. Freeman likely has a clearer picture of what went down and will shore up new strategies to adjust to the overly stringent expectations.

If I'm Freeman, I expect if my school can make it work, that they make it f*cking work.

Again, Freeman was about as diligent in having every contingency possible at safety. He got not 1, but 2 contingency plans in Minich and Hillman for the potential of losing Bowen, and he wound up losing more than just Bowen because again, ND refused to make it work.

If I'm Freeman, I can do all the ground work possible, but I still need my bosses to help me out here and there. If not, then why would he stick around? Why run a program with championship expectations without even close to championship level support?

I already have to put up with enough "do more with less" bullshit in the military.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I’m not sure how it works in admissions entirely, but my presumption was that he was initially admitted under stipulations that he didn’t meet between the time of him signing until recent. But who knows. Freeman likely has a clearer picture of what went down and will shore up new strategies to adjust to the overly stringent expectations.

Takes nd 4 months to NOT clear him and takes Michigan 4 hours to clear him…. ND leadership is pathetic

 

[Sea Turtle]

Takes nd 4 months to NOT clear him and takes Michigan 4 hours to clear him…. ND leadership is pathetic

Pretty much

 

[irishff1014]

Takes nd 4 months to NOT clear him and takes Michigan 4 hours to clear him…. ND leadership is pathetic

Lol Michigan “student athletes are the same stand as ND student athletes” if you don’t like that than move on. Everyone knows that ND won’t budge on this.

Even though it sounds like Freeman got them too but again sounds like Hillman didn’t hold up his end of the agreement.

 

[NDWarrior]

This is the reason I especially hate when this stuff happens: Then Michigan (or another team) spins the ensuing commit they secure like they beat out ND for a top recruit Michigan football poaches 4-star Brandyn Hillman from Notre Dame... "Poaches" Really? Is what the article states true? That Hillman is now the No. 2 rated player in Michigan's class of 2023.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Lol Michigan “student athletes are the same stand as ND student athletes” if you don’t like that than move on. Everyone knows that ND won’t budge on this.

Even though it sounds like Freeman got them too but again sounds like Hillman didn’t hold up his end of the agreement.

ND not budging on this is just another example of ND not willing to commit to winning.

There's some things that ND won't and shouldn't budge on.

But if they're able to make it work that they can get somebody in who can get admitted to Michigan or Vanderbilt without issue, then there's no excuse to not make it work.

 

[Irish4life]

I don’t disagree with your overall point regarding Freeman. However, who is responsible for monitoring the academic progress of signed recruits? It’s been clear for a while now that the football program and admissions have not been in full alignment with each other, so I would imagine the football staff has to be extra diligent regarding the academic monitoring of borderline recruits who sign with them. Who on the staff has this responsibility or this not a thing? It would be nice to say it’s up to the player, but if academic struggles are already preexisting, the terms of acceptance require a different kind of follow-through knowing admissions will wreck the party without hesitation.

I’m a bit surprised this happened to Freeman considering the precedent for this kind of consequence was set by Kelly. Has to be in the notes somewhere. Anyway, I’m confident Freeman will learn from this. I hope he keeps his aggression in recruiting, but he will need to drum up that extra support.

Its happened 2x in 10 years. It sucks that it happened but let's not act like this is a regular occurrence lol.

 

[Blazers46]

Negative Feelings are typically based on reality not meeting expectations. The expectations for ND football should be 9-3. Anything over 9 wins should be seen as a great season. Anything 8 and under should be seen as playing under expectations. Winning a national championship isn’t a reality under these current standards and state of college football.

Expectations:
ND will get eat up by the big boys because of NIL.

ND admissions will hamstring personnel.

ND will continue to schedule games like they are elite.

College football will continue to evolve… while ND will not.

The expectations of a 9-3 season will soon be 8-4ish.

That’s reality. As soon as you guys can accept that the better your world will be.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Negative Feelings are typically based on reality not meeting expectations. The expectations for ND football should be 9-3. Anything over 9 wins should be seen as a great season. Anything 8 and under should be seen as playing under expectations. Winning a national championship isn’t a reality under these current standards and state of college football.

Expectations:
ND will get eat up by the big boys because of NIL.

ND admissions will hamstring personnel.

ND will continue to schedule games like they are elite.

College football will continue to evolve… while ND will not.

The expectations of a 9-3 season will soon be 8-4ish.

That’s reality. As soon as you guys can accept that the better your world will be.

That is not the fanbase I signed up to be a part of.

As a ND fan, I demand elite from all aspects. I demand that ND's administration do EVERYTHING in its power to accomplish the mission. ND hamstringing personnel and not being willing to back up the NIL effort run in direct contrast to that.

That isn't a reality I will be content with. Change is necessary.

 

[Blazers46]

So you’re saying it’s a good time to get out now?

If you want… I’ll stay. I just might start replacing my office decor with positive affirmation quotes and ND fencing posters

 

[T-Boone]

Its happened 2x in 10 years. It sucks that it happened but let's not act like this is a regular occurrence lol.

Is the other one Stepp?

 

[Irishdrunk]

1. Kelly gets this kid in. Admin doesn’t respect Freeman as much. Kelly was always having to battle Admin on shit like this. Freeman is not used to this type of embarrassing bs. He is too nice.

2. ND is committed to being a Top 25 Program. This is fine… nothing to see here….

3. Freeman will leave for OSU which is NOT a lateral move.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Its happened 2x in 10 years. It sucks that it happened but let's not act like this is a regular occurrence lol.

It’s happened WAY more than that. Kelly had to continually fight for kids. Not so easy. Freeman will learn on the job.

 

[PutuporShutup]

It’s happened WAY more than that. Kelly had to continually fight for kids. Not so easy. Freeman will learn on the job.

How many good kids did nd say no to for stupid reasons we don’t even know about?