'23 FL DE Keon Keeley (Prodigal Son)

du Lac

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You realize that Kelly's class in 2016 had a composite ranking of #15, 2017 had a composite ranking of #11, 2018 had a ranking of #10, 2019 had a #15 composite ranking, 2020 had a #18 composite class ranking at ND, 2021 it was #9 (thanks to Freeman recruits like Sneed), there would have to be around 5 decommits with each replaced with 3stars before it would make this a shitty BK class. The only reason you're able to complain about this class in the way you are is *because* of the high standard Freeman has set in recruiting.

I agree with you. The question is, is MF such a good coach that he will make that position change in recruiting by about 5 spots elite enough to win more games? BK took those #15’s to the playoffs. Not bad.
 

NDpendent

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I agree with you. The question is, is MF such a good coach that he will make that position change in recruiting by about 5 spots elite enough to win more games? BK took those #15’s to the playoffs. Not bad.
By himself, probably not but a huge difference is who he is surrounding himself with. The staff is much improved. And Freeman goes out of his way to look for support and advice which is huge is his development as a coach
 

IHateMarkMay

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Maybe, as this is his first full year recruiting as a head coach, that he is behind the 8 ball a little bit. ND seems to be high on a lot of '24 five star recruits lists, so that should be more of a tell as to how Freeman can build relationships and recruit.

Hell, a year ago Kelly didn't have ND involved in many '23 five stars (if any).
 

T Town Tommy

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I’d love some data on how many 3 star recruits become first round picks at ND vs Bama. That’s where the devil in the details resides. If you’re a 5 star DE, you’re going to be a first round pick if you go to Iowa. Go where you’re happy and fit in. You’re going to get the same result on the field unless you go to a shit program.
Off the top of my head from Bama: Kareem Jackson, Josh Jacobs, Matt Jones
 

Justin574

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I agree with you. The question is, is MF such a good coach that he will make that position change in recruiting by about 5 spots elite enough to win more games? BK took those #15’s to the playoffs. Not bad.
I honestly think we'll have to wait and see, maybe sometime around mid-season we should have a better idea of how good of a HC he is on the field. What I think we shouldn't do is take the Fiesta bowl game that he was literally thrown into on a few weeks notice and use that as a barometer for how good he'll be. Plus, even if we did, he technically outperformed Kelly when it comes to big games like that. The players came out of the gate faster than I've seen in years, they just weren't able to sustain it. I think that can be attributed in part to Quinn's Oline coaching, which made us quite one dimensional on offense with no run blocking. I like his hires in the off-season, they should allow him some room to grow as a HC, the rest I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 

PutuporShutup

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Why delete a pro ND Tweet? If anyone wants to compare Mendoza school of business to Bama business school (if they even have one), let’s go. And I think Bama wishes they had Isaiah Foskey, future top 10 pick.
It wasn't super pro ND. She said his goal was to get a good degree, but his goal since he was 5 is to be a first round draft pick. Thats a bama type post to me.
 

ACamp1900

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giphy.gif


Love when Whiskey puts someone in their place.
Y’all actually read that novel???
 

ab2cmiller

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Y’all actually read that novel???
LOL. I hear ya. In all honesty, I didn't even bother. Then someone quoted only a couple of parts of what Whisky posted. I said to myself that's pretty damn good. So eventually I did read the whole thing. Normally that long of a post, I'm just waving as I go by.
 

IHateMarkMay

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How are we behind the 8 ball? This is the best class we have had since Holtz and it's his first year. Most of the beginning of the year he was hiring almost a whole new staff and they had to start from nothing on alot of these kids since the previous staff wasn't recruiting them
As a head coach, he started recruiting '23 recruits in December '21 (just over a year to signing day). He's been recruiting '24 recruits since (probably before) March of '22, 20 months to the late signing day. Meaning he's going to be able to have a bit longer to develop relationships with the '24 class than he did with the '23 class.
 

ACamp1900

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LOL. I hear ya. In all honesty, I didn't even bother. Then someone quoted only a couple of parts of what Whisky posted. I said to myself that's pretty damn good. So eventually I did read the whole thing. Normally that long of a post, I'm just waving as I go by.
Long posts, Whisky posts,…I tend to skip them all
 

Justin574

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I’d love some data on how many 3 star recruits become first round picks at ND vs Bama. That’s where the devil in the details resides. If you’re a 5 star DE, you’re going to be a first round pick if you go to Iowa. Go where you’re happy and fit in. You’re going to get the same result on the field unless you go to a shit program.
Please delete if not allowed, I'm still not entirely sure of the rules. But in this video around the 12min mark, Tim Heyde says in the last 20yrs ND has had 120 3 stars and only 7 of them went on to the NFL at all.





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du Lac

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Fan base is going to go ape shit on MF hate if he loses Bowen and Keeley and gets bent over by Ohio State. Not saying it’s right, but he’s about to learn how hard it is to coach at ND in a short amount of time. I’ve seen how nasty it gets and without a win on his resume, a beat down vs the Buckeyes and losing the top 2 commits is going t to send a lot of folks into pitch fork mode. Again, just knowing the majority of crazies, it’s all but fact.
 

Dale

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That’s 6% which is in line with normal 3 star to NFL likelihood.

Not that that impacts Keon Keeley in anyway.
 

PutuporShutup

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Please delete if not allowed, I'm still not entirely sure of the rules. But in this video around the 12min mark, Tim Heyde says in the last 20yrs ND has had 120 3 stars and only 7 of them went on to the NFL at all.





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but for 20 years every 3 star we recruit is a diamond in the rough.

I think there are some clear 3 star recruits that have a shot to grow/develop into a really good player and there have been a lot of 3 stars that i feel have no shot no matter what they do to make a big positive impact on the program. A few of those are pretty obvious. Those are the head scratchers. Kelly seemed to have a few of those every year. Irvin was actually my biggest head scratcher of the class before he got over recruited. There's a few this year i'm not super high on but aren't complete head scratchers.

My head is itchy
 

IrishFanForever23

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Mike Frank basically saying what we’re all saying in don’t count Keon or Bowen as commits as their actions say more than their words. Also said he’d be surprised if either were in the class and that he finds it funny Keon’s mom does interviews with other sites.
 

notredomer23

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Please delete if not allowed, I'm still not entirely sure of the rules. But in this video around the 12min mark, Tim Heyde says in the last 20yrs ND has had 120 3 stars and only 7 of them went on to the NFL at all.





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I think he’s wrong about the amount that went onto the NFL. Just going back to 2014 I counted 7: Nick Martin, Bennett Jackson, Julian Love, Alohi Gilman, JOK, Ian Book, Ade Ogundeji. There’s also a slew of players ranked outside the top 300 3 stars but were still composite 4 stars that got drafted.

I didn’t go back before 2014, but, I’d assume some of those drafted in the 12 years before that were 3 stars.
 

du Lac

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Mike Frank basically saying what we’re all saying in don’t count Keon or Bowen as commits as their actions say more than their words. Also said he’d be surprised if either were in the class and that he finds it funny Keon’s mom does interviews with other sites.

I wish the coaches had the balls to dump them. Literally rescind the offer. They pretend certain kids are “ND kids” but then they get played like a fiddle and chase them like lost puppies. Reminder: ND is far bigger than you.
 

PutuporShutup

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Fan base is going to go ape shit on MF hate if he loses Bowen and Keeley and gets bent over by Ohio State. Not saying it’s right, but he’s about to learn how hard it is to coach at ND in a short amount of time. I’ve seen how nasty it gets and without a win on his resume, a beat down vs the Buckeyes and losing the top 2 commits is going t to send a lot of folks into pitch fork mode. Again, just knowing the majority of crazies, it’s all but fact.
Need to be 7-1 heading into Clemson. BYU is the only team that should even have a shot of giving us any trouble after OSU and before Clemson. But we have a bye leading into BYU so really no excuse there either.

ND plays well vs OSU, goes 10-2 regular season, keeps our top committs....... 24 class explodes
 

PutuporShutup

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I think he’s wrong about the amount that went onto the NFL. Just going back to 2014 I counted 7: Nick Martin, Bennett Jackson, Julian Love, Alohi Gilman, JOK, Ian Book, Ade Ogundeji. There’s also a slew of players ranked outside the top 300 3 stars but were still composite 4 stars that got drafted.

I didn’t go back before 2014, but, I’d assume some of those drafted in the 12 years before that were 3 stars.
We didn't recruit ALohi out of HS, and Love was a 4 star, but you may be right.
 

du Lac

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You want to pull the offer of the best pass rusher in the country while he's still committed to you?

If you’re clearly not coming to ND, yes. If there’s a solid chance he still wants to go to ND, no. Don’t chase a 5% chance. Kiss my ass is what they should say. It’s precedent. Win on the field and don’t put up with bullshit. Be different.
 

PutuporShutup

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I wish the coaches had the balls to dump them. Literally rescind the offer. They pretend certain kids are “ND kids” but then they get played like a fiddle and chase them like lost puppies. Reminder: ND is far bigger than you.
If the player is looking around and being honest about it keep recruiting them. Now if the player and players family is clearly lying to the coaching staff, that's when it may be worth dropping. As far as we know there's nothing concrete that says Keeley and Bowen are lying to the coaching staff.
 

du Lac

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If the player is looking around and being honest about it keep recruiting them. Now if the player and players family is clearly lying to the coaching staff, that's when it may be worth dropping. As far as we know there's nothing concrete that says Keeley and Bowen are lying to the coaching staff.

Correct. You keep them even if there’s a 25% chance. If you’re out of it and getting played, have some fucking pride. Certainly don’t hold their spot if someone else is interested.
 
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