2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

[zelezo vlk]

I'll use this post as an opportunity to say I think Traore's upside is 1st-2nd round material. Really do. He's got Julian Okwara written all over him. Though we'll see how big he gets because his brother is a small house.

I hope he can be good like Julian was by his sophomore year.


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[NDMatt91]

I'll use this post as an opportunity to say I think Traore's upside is 1st-2nd round material. Really do. He's got Julian Okwara written all over him. Though we'll see how big he gets because his brother is a small house.

The knock on Traore is that the competition up here in MA isn't great. His team is legit, though. This fall his HS team will have at least 10 kids who have FBS offers.

 

[ndfanatic78]

Is this more of an organizational issue than an ND administrative issue? If some NIL fund or fat wallet that is unaffiliated with the university paid off Keeley to go to ND, what could the university effectively do about it? The university can't control third parties so I don't totally understand the anger being lobbied their way (unless the expectation is that the university plays an organizing role in such deals).

They could and probably would revoke Keeley’s scholarship because by their definition he would not be in compliance with NCAA regulations

 

[WilliamWallace]

I think it's only an administrative issue insofar as our boosters are afraid of retaliation for taking such action, and our admin refuses to help coordinate such payments. I agree that ND has limited control over 3rd parties, so someone with deep pockets could let the Keeleys know that he'll match Keon's best offer if he signs with ND. And it's silly to imply that our BoF is discussing P4P and voting not to extend such offers. I can't imagine that's happening even at aTm. But I think the key difference is that the southern schools have long had a "bag man" culture in place, so it took very little organizing to get the back-channel communication between boosters and the coaching staffs online.

P4P is so foreign to our culture that it's going to take some major work by our boosters and coaching staff to get the admin to consider it. Odds are good that the southern schools are gonna keep eating our lunch until new rules level the playing field.

Pretty sure I mentioned something about leveling the playing field not too long ago. Didn’t I? INLAW?

 

[INLaw]

Pretty sure I mentioned something about leveling the playing field not too long ago. Didn’t I? INLAW?

Your asking me? You give me too much credit but since you have asked twice the mega caveat… a thing we talked about a ton months ago is the differences between state law. Like Nico and Malachi can do things because they are from California that Drayk from two counties over can not. I think the really understanding that particular state’s law plays a major role in evaluating illegality from “against the rules”. There used to be some states that codified and criminalized bag men as interfering with amateurism statutes that sometimes got convictions. I have no idea what happened to those. Overall I do not have a specific intelligent answer.

 

[INLaw]

As far as leveling the playing field my heart has always been opposed to athletic scholarships period. There is no real argument for why someone good at sports should get a free top notch education. The two are not related.

 

[WilliamWallace]

Your asking me? You give me too much credit but since you have asked twice the mega caveat… a thing we talked about a ton months ago is the differences between state law. Like Nico and Malachi can do things because they are from California that Drayk from two counties over can not. I think the really understanding that particular state’s law plays a major role in evaluating illegality from “against the rules”. There used to be some states that codified and criminalized bag men as interfering with amateurism statutes that sometimes got convictions. I have no idea what happened to those. Overall I do not have a specific intelligent answer.

I was really just looking for my thumbs up! But I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

 

[INLaw]

I was really just looking for my thumbs up! But I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

I forgot to add just to really bring it home and complicate it that for pre signing nil to not illegal the players state has to allow them to receive and the colleges state has to allow them to pay by not having amateur status protection laws

 

[Irish du Nord]

I'll use this post as an opportunity to say I think Traore's upside is 1st-2nd round material. Really do. He's got Julian Okwara written all over him. Though we'll see how big he gets because his brother is a small house.

So Tuitt or Okwara?

 

[FWIrish4]

As far as leveling the playing field my heart has always been opposed to athletic scholarships period. There is no real argument for why someone good at sports should get a free top notch education. The two are not related.

Weve had a lot of hot takes in the history of IE but this is a doozy.

 

[INLaw]

Weve had a lot of hot takes in the history of IE but this is a doozy.

Not meant as a take or anything to be agreed with just my own personal opinion.

 

[arahop]

As far as leveling the playing field my heart has always been opposed to athletic scholarships period. There is no real argument for why someone good at sports should get a free top notch education. The two are not related.

Was that a post for NDnation?

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

As far as leveling the playing field my heart has always been opposed to athletic scholarships period. There is no real argument for why someone good at sports should get a free top notch education. The two are not related.

Hot take, like it. Don't know if I agree but like it.

 

[INLaw]

I think I would describe it as a bad or unpopular opinion as opposed to a hot take. Its not like a theory that may prove true as a long shot or something its just a fat boys bias coming through lol

 

[INLaw]

Lake a hot take would be it’s been too damn long since PAndfan changed his half naked chick avatar

 

[irishfan]

As far as leveling the playing field my heart has always been opposed to athletic scholarships period. There is no real argument for why someone good at sports should get a free top notch education. The two are not related.

I don’t agree but I do see where you’re coming from a bit. At the same time, is football at all related to education then? Should schools even have teams? And should they even care about winning?

 

[INLaw]

I don’t agree but I do see where you’re coming from a bit. At the same time, is football at all related to education then? Should schools even have teams? And should they even care about winning?

I mean I guess my next logical step is having essentially D3 style athletic where its part of the school and education like high school

 

[INLaw]

And just as a historical point the modern athletic scholarship only goes back to the early 50’s. Knute rockne was long dead and notre dame was the biggest brand long before

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

While we're on the subject of history, didn't this program build itself post Rockne by more or less oversigning in the 1940s while their primary football competition was off saving humanity from Nazis?

 

[NDohio]

I think it's only an administrative issue insofar as our boosters are afraid of retaliation for taking such action, and our admin refuses to help coordinate such payments. I agree that ND has limited control over 3rd parties, so someone with deep pockets could let the Keeleys know that he'll match Keon's best offer if he signs with ND. And it's silly to imply that our BoF is discussing P4P and voting not to extend such offers. I can't imagine that's happening even at aTm. But I think the key difference is that the southern schools have long had a "bag man" culture in place, so it took very little organizing to get the back-channel communication between boosters and the coaching staffs online.

P4P is so foreign to our culture that it's going to take some major work by our boosters and coaching staff to get the admin to consider it. Odds are good that the southern schools are gonna keep eating our lunch until new rules level the playing field.

Ah the hypocrisy of it all. ND is on the verge of signing a media deal -approved by the administration - that will increase their annual revenue by $40 to $50 million - all based on the potential success of the football team. This team is made up of players that the administration won't allow to get paid based on their potential.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

While we're on the subject of history, didn't this program build itself post Rockne by more or less oversigning in the 1940s while their primary football competition was off saving humanity from Nazis?

Not exactly. Leahy abused his position in the navy to travel around recruit an insane class from active duty soldiers that went to college in 1946 after the war ended.

All at once you had basically 4-5 years of high schoolers enrolling together but that was the situation everywhere. Notre Dame just used its brand to recruit nationally like never before.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Ah the hypocrisy of it all. ND is on the verge of signing a media deal -approved by the administration - that will increase their annual revenue by $40 to $50 million - all based on the potential success of the football team. This team is made up of players that the administration won't allow to get paid based on their potential.

It's not hypocrisy, or at least not hyprocrisy that's in any way unique to Notre Dame. We've apparently been very effective in helping our players maximize their NIL value, so there's no objection in principal to paying its athletes.

But ND's interpretation of the rules prevents upfront pay-for-play, so we don't do that. Southern schools--whose interpretation of the rules is more flexible (and, to their credit, who have a more realistic view of the NCAA)--are eating our lunch as a result.

ND needs to stop showing the NCAA so much deference.

 

[arahop]

Ah the hypocrisy of it all. ND is on the verge of signing a media deal -approved by the administration - that will increase their annual revenue by $40 to $50 million - all based on the potential success of the football team. This team is made up of players that the administration won't allow to get paid based on their potential.

Yep, this is where I'm at. Just frustrating because those said 5* will equate to more wins which equates to more money for the University. It's an investment with a high rate of return. Low risk, high reward.

 

[du Lac]

Kelly going to have a better class than ND. How about that..

Sad fact that many said wouldn’t happen. We are all getting a reality check.

 

[arahop]

Sad fact that many said wouldn’t happen. We are all getting a reality check.

That the BOT, and administration are the real obstacles of ND Football returning to the top. They are the first thing that I curse in my head when the Irish get beat down by teams with greater overall talent. Will continue in perpetuity.

 

[du Lac]

That the BOT, and administration are the real obstacles of ND Football returning to the top. They are the first thing that I curse in my head when the Irish get beat down by teams with greater overall talent. Will continue in perpetuity.

Yeah, I think I’ll give freeman a shot for ‘24. If that class implodes and ends up mediocre, I’ll stop following recruiting and stick to rooting for the guys on the team on saturdays. I’ve followed recruiting very closely since the Weis era. I’m burned out. If we can’t change it under freeman, it’s never happening. I’ll get excited for the rivalry games, but expecting or even hoping for a title in a different league playing by different rules is silly and a guarantee for disappointment. I waste a lot of time following recruiting that could be spent doing far more productive things. Honestly, college football is getting boring to me. I think the Bama dynasty and the paying players crap is making me like the NFL more than I ever have and I’ve been watching les college football. I’ve actually been watching NFL more and more and I was never into it. If we’re going to pay players and each school has different rules, the NFL is a better and more competitive league. College football has lost what made it special for me.

 

[benneboy]

Sad fact that many said wouldn’t happen. We are all getting a reality check.

Its August and nothing has happened yet. I'll say here what I said about 6 months ago to some non ND fans about this switch up. We're going to find out if Kelly had an ND problem or if ND had a Kelly problem as far as getting over the hump.

I've been under the assumption it's the former not the latter. We'll find out soon enough. I'm no Kelly fan cause he's no longer one of us, but he was a top 5 coach in college football while he was here.

 

[arahop]

Yeah, I think I’ll give freeman a shot for ‘24. If that class implodes and ends up mediocre, I’ll stop following recruiting and stick to rooting for the guys on the team on saturdays. I’ve followed recruiting very closely since the Weis era. I’m burned out. If we can’t change it under freeman, it’s never happening. I’ll get excited for the rivalry games, but expecting or even hoping for a title in a different league playing by different rules is silly and a guarantee for disappointment.

This is where I'm at. I just hope that Freeman has upfront conversations with Jack. It took BK 7-10 years to have those conversations.
"Jack I know that when you were hired you said that you wanted ND to compete for National Championships. Hey we are losing out on these guys for an approximate 250k a year." Let's win some Championships!

 

[du Lac]

This is where I'm at. I just hope that Freeman has upfront conversations with Jack. It took BK 7-10 years to have those conversations.
"Jack I know that when you were hired you said that you wanted ND to compete for National Championships. Hey we are losing out on these guys for an approximate 250k a year." Let's win some Championships!

ND won’t change as long as the naive fans keep hoping and expecting a championship. There are literally hundreds of thousands of ND fans that actually think in any given year we will win it all. They don’t have a clue who we are recruiting. As long as they fill the stands, and spend millions on tickets and merch they don’t care. 8 to 12 wins a year keeps the fan base content that we are making progress and close. If most fans paid half as much attention as the people in this forum, the pressure on ND would be so overwhelming they’d have no choice but to change.

 

[INLaw]

Yeah, I think I’ll give freeman a shot for ‘24. If that class implodes and ends up mediocre, I’ll stop following recruiting and stick to rooting for the guys on the team on saturdays. I’ve followed recruiting very closely since the Weis era. I’m burned out. If we can’t change it under freeman, it’s never happening. I’ll get excited for the rivalry games, but expecting or even hoping for a title in a different league playing by different rules is silly and a guarantee for disappointment. I waste a lot of time following recruiting that could be spent doing far more productive things. Honestly, college football is getting boring to me. I think the Bama dynasty and the paying players crap is making me like the NFL more than I ever have and I’ve been watching les college football. I’ve actually been watching NFL more and more and I was never into it. If we’re going to pay players and each school has different rules, the NFL is a better and more competitive league. College football has lost what made it special for me.

Most of the old hats around here already made that transition. This class with the early Keely and Vernon commits and Dante Moore talk got me big into recruiting in a way that I hadn’t engaged on this site since probably bang bang notre dame gang.