2022-2023 ND Women's Basketball Thread

[notredomer23]

Our ladies rolled today against UVA. Buckets galore.

Any Mabrey injury update?

 

[IrishLax]

Any Mabrey injury update?

I haven’t seen an official one but pretty clear ACL + done for the year.

 

[Irish#1]

SOUTH BEND, Ind -- — Sonia Citron scored 20 points, hitting a career-high six 3-pointers, and grabbed nine rebounds to help No. 7 Notre Dame rout Virginia 76-54 on Sunday. Lauren Ebo added 15 points and a career-high four steals, while Olivia Miles had 12 points and seven assists for the Fighting Irish (16-2, 7-1 ACC).

Notre Dame lost starter Dara Mabrey to a knee injury in the game’s second minute and her Irish teammates picked up the slack. Mabrey went down on a fast break at 8:01 of the first quarter and did not return.

“I don’t know the timeline,” Notre Dame coach Niele Ivey said. “She’s going to get further examination. It’s obviously just a little bit emotional for us. I was very proud of the way we responded.”

 

[Old Man Mike]

I still don't get to see the games so I'm stuck with the ND site pdf files which are quite extensive though.

We seem only to roll here at this stage of the season if we can bully the opponent --- which means that Ivey can play Edo a lot and let her just bang around low in the paint. Some teams will not allow that. Clemson didn't, shut Edo down, and we BARELY scraped by (literally last second.) Virginia couldn't cope, and we romped in both the first and third quarters (which even that might reflect on Edo's ability to play a lot of minutes.) Edo is a player who will win you about half your games, and be a liability in about a third of them. (since she is terrible defensively. )

The rest of the Clemson problem was that Mabrey couldn't hit the Ocean from the seaside. Kind of incredible. Also, we could not free up Citron for any reasonable number of shots. She still played hard (that game was TVd here) but almost no points. Miles went off and so did Westbeld, so we scraped by. Citron's lack of offensive involvement was a coaching deficit --- Ivey and the staff were flummoxed. Plus they insisted on playing lots of vanilla two/three zone vs a good three-point shooting team. We won late when we went back to an aggressive man-to-man. I understand trying zones since both Edo and Miles are REALLY SLOW defensively. ... and so is Westbeld. (Our only respectable defensive players are Citron, Watson, and Bransford.)

Virginia was totally different due to the change in physicality. Edo bullied their post badly, and after Dara went down (which was almost immediately,) Ivey decided to play big. Bransford came in as the normal sub, but Ivey changed up the Bigs rotation so that Edo and Watson were on the court together most of the time. Westbeld went back into her funk, but it didn't matter. Sonia got seriously involved and went off with 20 points and 9 boards. I'd have liked to have seen the live action rather than just read the script to see how they got Sonia involved and how the Watson/Edo combo worked. It could be (I'm hoping) that playing Watson as a higher post has freed her from being offensively buried inside as a low-post center, which she seems not to be.

My view of this team is not optimistic for the tournament. Teams which cannot defend the paint and win the board war don't win. We have no shot blockers and our leading rebounders are Miles and Citron. No one knows which game will find Westbeld not floating around the court audibly snoring. Without a (normally) constant 3-point threat to stretch the defenses, we are almost solely dependent upon Sonia to do that, unless Prosper comes on fast. In my (saddened) opinion, we have neither the physicality, the three-point threats, nor the coaching cleverness to make a serious tournament run (despite having two of the best players in the country and other talent around them.)

 

[clashmore_mike]

 

[clashmore_mike]

 

[Old Man Mike]

A serious loss. Dara Mabrey was the type of player who (with this team's composition) would basically ensure victory if she was on.
Her role on this team was unique in that she was the only actually scary 3-point threat. Opposing coaches had to plan against her.
They won't have to do that now, which will open their defenses to using more zones against us and possibly more clogging the middle.

Dara was not the most consistent, but there was one thing upon which you could absolutely count: Effort. Not everyone on our team
can claim that (sadly.)

Pragmatically, Ivey might start Bransford which makes us bigger and less vulnerable to opponents taking a small guard inside.
KKB is also the second best defender on the team, so that's good. ... but losing the 3-threat isn't replaceable.

 

[laughingirish90]

looks like our wbb team is going down today as they are getting killed by the wolfpack in the 3rd. they can't make buckets and turnovers are killing them also

 

[laughingirish90]

irish had a chance to take the conference lead with Duke getting beat but instead decided to crap the bed and get beat by the wolfpack

 

[irishandy]

The state of North Carolina hasn't been kind to the lady Irish team this year. NC & NC St. hit their shots when they needed to.

 

[irishrb]

They were also missing Ebo for this game...Not quite sure what her status is, but she was on the bench with a a boot.

 

[Chicago Domer]

Still trying to learn how to play without Dara Mabrey. There will be some games like this for a while.

 

[Old Man Mike]

This is the type of game that I saw coming. Without Mabrey, we are totally dependent upon Citron as a three point threat, which isn't even her game. (She is, as Ivey just said, the Team Glue, and that includes lots of motion, bailing out the ball-handler in trouble, spacing the court and creating balance (i.e. not camping out in shooting areas to threaten bombs but moving less. She also is usually the first back on defense, the first in on help defense, and almost the only one trying to take charges --- kind of ridiculous really.) The defense opponent prep will note this and emphasize not giving Sonia stand-and-shoot 3s. Plus she was also a point-of-emphasis on screens and cutting this game. So, NCSt was smart and she had a punk game. That created a punk offense (Westbeld had a good stats game, but the way they played us, she could have had many more.)

Marshall gave us some decent minutes but will not score. KKB works defensively, but NCSt completely disrespected her (non) shooting ability. There were glimmers that Prosper might give us a way forward if Ivey handles this well --- Prosper is the only new threat that can shoot the 3 and actually really wants to --- i.e. has that confidence. Strangely, our only player with a good +/- was Marshall with "11". Citron was next at "-2"

So this is the game which I feared: a team that we can't simply bully down low, (without 3-stretching threats it's a simple matter to clog up the paint) and since we couldn't hit threes (Dara gone just made that scenario nearly a "normal" game unfortunately.) Any team from the middle to the top of the ACC should now see that bullying back in the paint, dribble-driving our defensive incompetents (ex. Miles, Westbeld), and help-defending Citron while utterly ignoring one or two of the other players incapable of shooting from any distance, is a map to victory.

Prosper might rescue the day if she wants to hustle defensively and be active all over --- she seems to have the tools. Can an ultimate line-up of Miles, Citron, Westbeld, Prosper, and one other big do enough the rest of the way?

 

[irishandy]

Ebo is a rebounding machine, hopefully she is able to get back on the court soon.

 

[laughingirish90]

This is the type of game that I saw coming. Without Mabrey, we are totally dependent upon Citron as a three point threat, which isn't even her game. (She is, as Ivey just said, the Team Glue, and that includes lots of motion, bailing out the ball-handler in trouble, spacing the court and creating balance (i.e. not camping out in shooting areas to threaten bombs but moving less. She also is usually the first back on defense, the first in on help defense, and almost the only one trying to take charges --- kind of ridiculous really.) The defense opponent prep will note this and emphasize not giving Sonia stand-and-shoot 3s. Plus she was also a point-of-emphasis on screens and cutting this game. So, NCSt was smart and she had a punk game. That created a punk offense (Westbeld had a good stats game, but the way they played us, she could have had many more.)

Marshall gave us some decent minutes but will not score. KKB works defensively, but NCSt completely disrespected her (non) shooting ability. There were glimmers that Prosper might give us a way forward if Ivey handles this well --- Prosper is the only new threat that can shoot the 3 and actually really wants to --- i.e. has that confidence. Strangely, our only player with a good +/- was Marshall with "11". Citron was next at "-2"

So this is the game which I feared: a team that we can't simply bully down low, (without 3-stretching threats it's a simple matter to clog up the paint) and since we couldn't hit threes (Dara gone just made that scenario nearly a "normal" game unfortunately.) Any team from the middle to the top of the ACC should now see that bullying back in the paint, dribble-driving our defensive incompetents (ex. Miles, Westbeld), and help-defending Citron while utterly ignoring one or two of the other players incapable of shooting from any distance, is a map to victory.

Prosper might rescue the day if she wants to hustle defensively and be active all over --- she seems to have the tools. Can an ultimate line-up of Miles, Citron, Westbeld, Prosper, and one other big do enough the rest of the way?

this team could be even better next year with everybody that played sunday coming back and then you add in two top twenty players coming in also next fall which includes top five rated and 5 star Hannah Hildalgo from NJ who some beat writers call the best guard in the nation along with being also called the fastest player in the class who can't be guarded one on one. the future is so bright for the program

 

[Old Man Mike]

I agree with that.
My disappointment is with this year's rendition. Miles should play like an AA every game --- she only does some of the time. She is very slow-footed defensively, but at least could hustle all the time, which she does not. If that's a conditioning issue, then maybe off-season she'll get at that part of things. One can say almost the exact thing about Westbeld. One cut lower on the AA but still WAY high on potential ... and you do not see it every game by a large percentage. So, next year...?

Citron is ready. All she needs to add is more three point accuracy and willingness to let fly. Bransford has all the intangibles and glue that Citron has but no shooting touch whatever beyond 10 feet. She needs LOTS of firepower work, but she's an athlete, so that's possible. Prosper, in my very small sample, looks also like a real athletic person with natural ball skills offensively and defensively. I'm hoping for very big things. Marshall actually seems to be coming on as a role player. Maybe Ivey will use her more.

Miles, Westbeld, Citron, Bransford, Prosper, Marshall ... and ...
We need a center and we need shooters. And it would be nice if those people could stop opponents defensively, and understand help defense. I'll take at least one Jackie Young or Maddy Cable. (doesn't even have to be Skylar Diggins or Jewell Loyd.) Then one of Natalie Ochonwa or Jess Shepard and we're good to go. Is that too much to ask?

 

[sportallyr]

Olivia Miles just went down with a knee injury and it did not look good. I’m simply speculating, but it had the looks of a possible season ending injury. Ugh.

 

[laughingirish90]

wbb team playing like sh%t and basically looking like a team that doesn't want to win the title. the team is getting out played on both ends of the court and the cardinals are also playing with more emotion than we are. coach Ivey needs to lash out at them here at halftime and ask them how bad do they want the conference title

 

[laughingirish90]

gonna be tough to win when we can't get stops on defense

 

[stpeteirish]

Olivia Miles just went down with a knee injury and it did not look good. I’m simply speculating, but it had the looks of a possible season ending injury. Ugh.

yeah that's either a torn ligament or a hyperextension, hopefully the latter. But she was in a lot of pain and had trouble walking. The pain usually wears off pretty quickly if its just a hyperextension. The broadcaster initially said he was hit on the knee but the replay clearly showed she hurt it landing

If you didn't like the way we played with Miles, wait to you see us without her.

 

[laughingirish90]

irish are ACC champs. Citron who was a 5 star out of high school played like it today as she really carried this team today with a career high 27 pts

 

[irishandy]

Hopefully the injury to Olivia doesn't keep her sidelined- she makes this offense go.

What a win for the women's team Citron really stepped up and Louisville had no answer for our 2nd half defense.

Our 2 freshman KK and Prosper also had a nice game.

Congrats on winning the ACC championship!!

This would be a game for the football team and men's basketball team to watch a team step up when the leader gets hurt.

 

[irishandy]

irish are ACC champs. Citron who was a 5 star out of high school played like it today as she really carried this team today with a career high 27 pts

I did not know Citron was a 5* out of high school. She had a fantastic game and handled the pressure.

 

[Irish4life]

Biggest win of Ivey's tenure thus far, love how this team fights. Fellas, I think we have a blossoming star WBB coach on our hands. Now if only we could get one of those for the men's team

 

[irishff1014]

Biggest win of Ivey's tenure thus far, love how this team fights. Fellas, I think we have a blossoming star WBB coach on our hands. Now if only we could get one of those for the men's team

She was kinda like Freeman could recruit and coaching would come. Glad to see she found her footing.

I highly doubt that we’ll see that with the men team.

 

[irishrb]

irish are ACC champs. Citron who was a 5 star out of high school played like it today as she really carried this team today with a career high 27 pts

She's played like it all year. She is the ultimate team player and does absolutely anything/everything she is asked to do every game.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

 

[IrishLax]

Has anyone who hated on Ivey (despite her extensive assistant and NBA experience, and being asked to do a full rebuild...) mea culpa'd? I don't follow women's basketball closely enough to keep tabs on the vibes, but to lose Mabrey (and then Miles today) and still be a top 10 team // ACC champs says something.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I noticed Miles jumping up & down celebrating in the video clip so hopefully that means she didn’t have any structural damage to her knee.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Has anyone who hated on Ivey (despite her extensive assistant and NBA experience, and being asked to do a full rebuild...) mea culpa'd? I don't follow women's basketball closely enough to keep tabs on the vibes, but to lose Mabrey (and then Miles today) and still be a top 10 team // ACC champs says something.

It isn't really a societal norm of punditry, sports or otherwise, to admit wrong in 2023. I highly doubt anyone that was hating on her before is going to walk it back now.