2019 Virginia Post Game Thread

[Woneone]

- If you think that Wimbush would be a better alternative than Book, see yourself out. You're an idiot.

- If you think Book played well, you're an idiot as well.

- If you think this game was close because we lack talent on the defensive side of the ball, go a way, you're an idiot.

I'm not a football guy, but the only reason this game was close was because we decided to try to force them to do something, and they did it. Spectacularly. Like, I've watched a few UVA games, and Perkins hasn't NEARLY been like that. Not even close. It's like Nick Chubb turning into Barry Sanders. I joke, but I can't come up with any other valid comparison.

Maybe Kelly won't say it, but we forced UVA to do exactly what we wanted them to do in the first half. Perkins pass, from the pocket, with tight man-to-man, while we brought pressure.

He was freaking Dan Marino and his receivers caught EVERYTHING.

In the second half, we played base 4-3? We killed these guys.

Book played ok. He still has happy-feet. He needs to keep his cool, but this was a good defense, and we won by double-digits. It's a good week.

 

[Circa]

I think the criticism is more appropriate for Kelly and the coaching staff. Book can certainly improve on the way he’s been performing lately, but he’s close to his ceiling. It’d be interesting to know what Kelly’s QBs really think of their coaching at Notre Dame. It hasn’t been great. Then again, one could argue Kelly does a good job maximizing the talents of lower-rated QBs. He just has a difficult time sustaining that success.

It would. It would be great to rehash the feud of a mother being told your son will have the opportunity of being the starting QB next year and then realize that Kizer was better under pressure.
Then show he (Kizer) is nothing but the definition of a Pre-Madonna.
Let us try to get inside the mind of the Most Important QB's in Football whether it be NFL or CFB.
It's amazing the respect our team consistently draws. We Definitely deserve it whether It's a 6-6 team or a 12-0 #1. We are what all of the players that can't get in want to be apart of, and they can't understand It because they haven't felt it.
Players dream of being apart of our Irish.

 

[Woneone]

As someone who said, "I can't wait until Phil has the keys", I wasn't talking about now. This is Books team, hopefully for the season. Hopefully they run the table.

But this ND is not a championship squad, next year's won't be either. The guys who can win a NC are coming in Tyree, Johnson, Baker, Fisher and Phil's replacement = Buchner.

The sooner Phil gets QB1 snaps, the better chance ND can win that NC in '21 or '22.

What reads did Justin Fields make today that Book wouldn't have?

 

[BobbyMac]

What reads did Justin Fields make today that Book wouldn't have?

Didn't see OSU's game.

 

[IrishLax]

Lot of thoughts...

-First half was a classic “let down” game. Virginia brought their “A” game and was the hunter. ND did not have the focus, attention to detail, or positive body language to be successful. Things like Avery Davis dropping a pass on a play where he would’ve scored. Dumb penalties. Missed throws.
-Second half was dominance by the defense.
-For ND to play a bad first half, give up an onside kick, and have everything going against them... and still cover the spread and win by 2 TDs is amazing. It is *hard* to win in college football. We saw that today with loaded #1 Clemson coming within a 2 point conversion of going down to UNC. We should not take for granted how healthy the ND program is right now.
-If ND is going to take the next step they simply need more consistency on offense. It’s not just Book, it’s not just the OL, it’s not just Finke... it’s basically everyone. This starts with coaching getting the guys ready to play and it ends with recruiting better players if these guys aren’t capable of playing at a championship level. They have not played a “clean” game yet this year.

 

[Circa]

Didn't see OSU's game.

Nebraska Is Garbage, A shame that CGD tried to say It was a looker.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

-UVa quarterback had the half of his life, but reality eventually caught up.
-I liked their wide outs too. They went up and got the ball.


-Book was fine. He had a couple questionable series, but overall played well enough.
-I wish TJJ had a second gear. So many creases Dex would've exploded through he was getting tripped up in.
-Coach Lea is really something.
-Defense was really fun to watch today, even in the first half when UVa was making plays.


It was a fun game and I'm glad the UGa hang over didn't happen. Time to start rolling teams....

 

[ND88]

How do you know he’s close to his ceiling? The kid is a former 3-star recruit who bailed ND out in the Citrus Bowl and then saved the 2018 season. Now he has 14 games of film on him as a starter and we’re ready to toss him away b/c he’s had some struggles.

BK is far from perfect but the “QBs regress in year two” is a little too easy to explain away bad QB play.

Everett Golson regressed but what happened when he transferred to FSU if he was truly “under-coached”?

Malik Zaire regressed but what happened at UF if he was truly dealt a bad hand?

Brian Kelly is not the one who forced Deshone Kizer to come back overweight & out of shape relative to his breakout 2015 season.

What happened to Gunner Kiel when he left?

Brian Kelly can’t throw screen passes for Brandon Wimbush. The kid did his best but it wasn’t enough. He transfers to UCF where the presumed starter gets injured & he still gets beaten out by a true frosh? Is that BK’s fault?

I mean, I never said (1) throw away Book, nor did I say (2) his ceiling is low. His ceiling was pretty damn high last year with what he was able to do. But we saw that his ceiling was not high enough. You are definitely right in that I don’t have the coaching knowledge or experience to put a cap on his ceiling. The comments and backlash are mostly frustration. I think what Book did last year was incredible and he is undeserving of disrespectful comments, especially from fans who sh*t on Notre Dame’s chances last year. I remember the lot of doubters last year. I suppose my primary concern is the trend of needing more from our QBs in their year two and it not evolving. Football is such a QB driven sport, and ND can’t seem to get in the sweepstakes run for that Heisman talent.

 

[BobbyMac]

Nebraska Is Garbage, A shame that CGD tried to say It was a looker.

The program might not be good at the moment but DO NOT kid yourself. . .

Lincoln is unbelievable on game day.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Guys, nobody is saying Book is garbage. We are at a point as a program during Kelly's tenure where game manager isn't good enough. We need a QB that can make us an elite team and we don't have that currently on our roster. There is a reason Book was a 3 star talent, he's maximizing that now, but it's not good enough for what our expectations have become. We want to be elite, that requires an elite QB.

Yes, our run game is suspect and we need more talent at RB but a QB that can stretch the field would do wonders for the running game.

We just dont have the right combination at offensive skill positions to compete with the best right now. I think it's coming though, look to 2022 as our time.

 

[Irishize]

I mean, I never said (1) throw away Book, nor did I say (2) his ceiling is low. His ceiling was pretty damn high last year with what he was able to do. But we saw that his ceiling was not high enough. You are definitely right in that I don’t have the coaching knowledge or experience to put a cap on his ceiling. The comments and backlash are mostly frustration. I think what Book did last year was incredible and he is undeserving of disrespectful comments, especially from fans who sh*t on Notre Dame’s chances last year. I remember the lot of doubters last year. I suppose my primary concern is the trend of needing more from our QBs in their year two and it not evolving. Football is such a QB driven sport, and ND can’t seem to get in the sweepstakes run for that Heisman talent.

I get it...100% & can appreciate the frustration. Believe me, I was watching the game thinking “WTH?”. I say it every week but “fan” is short for “fanatic”. I never take in-game or immediate post game posts too seriously b/c they’re all driven by feelings & knee jerk reactions. That’s the nature of a message board...and it’s ok. That’s why I prefer private message boards....you can vent all you want and only catch shit from fellow members w/o worrying about opposing fans or...God forbid...actual players reading your frustrations.

It’s going to take a special year to win it all. The right QB, a top run game & an elite defense. Then you gotta factor in schedule, injuries, suspensions & Lady Luck. Will that be this season? Probably not but there’s still a lot to accomplish. Will it be next season? Who knows but keep winning the games you’re supposed to win and then pull the upset or big win in the marquee matchup and things may fall into place.

BK ain’t perfect but he’s gotten us this far which is a far cry from the Davie/Willingham/Weis era.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

To add to above. It would be a convenient year to get a win in a NY6 bowl game now that our playoff chances are slim.

 

[Woneone]

Didn't see OSU's game.

If you had, you'd have seen:

a.) Nebraska's defense is really bad
b.) It was read - run.

Fields will struggle against a team with more than 1/2 a corner. Just like he did at Georgia. Kirby Smart wouldn't have let him leave if he could make more than 1/3 field reads and run like he does.

Lucky for him, MSU is literally the only team that has a defense in the B1G that "may" give him fits. As much as we want to complain about our defense, even without Crawford, we have better corner play than 90% of teams out there.

 

[Bluto]

ND’s offense is a hot mess.

Book would be a good QB for somewhere like UC Davis.

ND’s defense is really good. This team is only going to go as far as that side of the ball takes it.

 

[Circa]

The program might not be good at the moment but DO NOT kid yourself. . .

Lincoln is unbelievable on game day.

I completely agree. It's CGD that knew they would have a game on Prime Time showing the way a team can recruit Canada football and Juco.

 

[Circa]

ND’s offense is a hot mess.

Book would kill it somewhere like UC Davis.

ND’s defense is really good. This team is only going to go as far as that side of the ball takes it.

Kinda like every QB that has left since he's been here.

Shit hole post.

 

[Woneone]

And I'll Add:

1.) Book is still a good QB. He's giving up on plays way to early. I don't know if it was the Clemson game that changed, things, but something is different. This idea that he still isn't a good P5 QB is assinine. I bitch about it, but even I can recognize he's still a hell of an accurate QB.

2.) Our defense was great the entire game. Not just the second half. Sometimes you gameplan, and the other team beats it. You adjust. And we did.

3.) Thank you Tony Jones Jr.

4.) If Tony Jones Jr is our best RB, we are in trouble.

5.) Finke needs to play better. I'd say "or sit", but I'm not sure that's an option

6.) Our linebackers have played 3 really freaking good games.

7.) Troy Pride Jr. makes QB's throw really great throws. And they've made them....

Edit: 8.) Our interior defense is much more stout than I could I possibly imagined.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Book is at best average and needs help. We have no other option otherwise Book would be replaced right about now. We benched Wimbush who hadn’t played as awful as Book has this season.

I disagree completely in all regards. For one, there is definitely an option if Book continues this subpar play. If there isn't, then Kelly, Long and Rees have failed to do their jobs.

Also, as bad as Book has been this year, he is MUCH better than Wimbush was through three games last year. The dude had 1 TD and 4 picks in three games, 3 picks coming against Ball f*cking State. And he was throwing about 55% for about 200 yards passing. He was atrocious.

Either way, I think it's time to start Phil. I'm getting sick of watching Book stammer in the pocket and bail for no reason, not seeing the plays develop, not doing his check downs or just flat out not executing (like those two screen passes). Book isn't talented enough to overcome poor intangibles and execution. As of right now, the offense is stagnant and they need a talent to give them a shot in the arm. I know it's not an ideal situation to place Phil in midseason but this offense isn't getting better and neither is Book.

 

[Bluto]

Kinda like every QB that has left since he's been here.

Shit hole post.

Lighten up Francis. He would be great at Davis because if we’re being honest that’s about where he is in terms of QB play and his measurables. It appears the problem is that Kelly and Co suck at identifying QB’s that can play at a top ten level. In just about all of Kelly's best seasons it has been the defense that has carried the team. Anyhow, Book is a decent QB, however if he and the rest of the O (including the coaches) play and coach like they have been ND is going to have problems with Michigan and USC. The defenses is a top five unit. It’s too bad the O looks more like a 25-30 ranking squad.

 

[Junkhead]

Either way, I think it's time to start Phil.

Every backup or new recruit is a hero, or the next "guy". It goes back forever, but think Crist, Golson, Kizer, Wimbush, whatever. Coaches aren't perfect but they see these guys in practice, which most of us don't. If Phil gave a better chance of winning right now, I'd assume he'd be playing. Though I agree Book has regressed a bit, but I'd attribute that to the run game and OL just being ok, and very average at times.

 

[Circa]

Lighten up Francis. He would be great at Davis because if we’re being honest that’s about where he is in terms of QB play and his measurables. It appears the problem is that Kelly and Co suck at identifying QB’s that can play at a top ten level. Anyhow, Book is a decent QB, however if he and the rest of the O (including the coaches) play and coach like they have been ND is going to have problems with Michigan and USC. The defenses is a top five unit. It’s too bad the O looks more like a 25-30 ranking squad.

I personally prefer Frank.
Book Is the QB we have and Is good enough In the situation that Is.

 

[Bluto]

I personally prefer Frank.
Book Is the QB we have and Is good enough In the situation that Is.

Ok, lighten up Frank.

 

[Circa]

Ok, lighten up Frank.

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[Crazy Balki]

Every backup or new recruit is a hero, or the next "guy". It goes back forever, but think Crist, Golson, Kizer, Wimbush, whatever. Coaches aren't perfect but they see these guys in practice, which most of us don't. If Phil gave a better chance of winning right now, I'd assume he'd be playing. Though I agree Book has regressed a bit, but I'd attribute that to the run game and OL just being ok, and very average at times.

Again, I disagree completely.

Wimbush beat out Book in practice last year. Look where that got us.

Kizer looked like complete dogsh*t in practice. Turned out to be very good in '15 when he was pressed into action.

Doing it in practice and doing it in a game are just not the same thing. Wimbush could do it in practice, but when the lights went on, he struggled.

I also do not agree with your assumption that the run game and OL are attributing to Book's struggles. The line is giving him plenty of time in the pocket to work with but he continues to not see the field, and when his first read isn't there, he panics and bails out of the pocket, even when he doesn't have to. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if more than half of the sacks given up this season were because of Book's pocket awareness or unnecessary bailing.

If anything, Book is making the OL look bad by taking unnecessary sacks and failing to find his receivers open time and time again. And Tony Jones had 131 yards rushing today and averaged 7.3 yards per carry. They had 168 yards rushing adjusted for sacks, against a pretty good defense mind you.

Book was the one holding the offense back today, no question about it*

 

[Irish8248]

Just got home from the game... few thoughts

1-- Book does not trust the OL and i think it has a lot to do with that Clemson game. His throws are slightly off target which kills his rhythm. Last year we had series of quick rpo throws to get him settled or if we wanted to move the ball quicky. This year his internal clock is off just a tad and its forcing everything to go off target enough that the likelihood of success is significantly less. ... that being said our WRs and OL need to step up and elevate their play to help him out.. if McKinley catches that one which was a little high and outside (but defn catchable) he was going for a very long TD. There wasnt a player in sight of him

2-- we defn miss that speed at RB. Whether Jafar can be it is a question but TJJ is not that option and he doesnt spread the defense out. #ImissDex

3 -- Va qb was 20-23 in the first half. BK said in his presser he did exactly what they wanted except be nearly perfect at it. The biggest half time adjustment was dialing up stunts and blitzes to collapse the pocket which disrupted their 2nd half.

4 -- Crawford elbow, claypool ankle, Hayes shoulder ... BK didnt seem too concerned about the first two but sounds like Hayes may be injured for time.

5 -- stadium was pretty loud most of the day. Especially during the entire drive leading up to Gilmans int. The noise defn rattled VA offense.

6 -- always fun to see big guys scoop and run.

Biggest takeaway from last 2 weeks, we need to find that offensive rhythm. Maybe just script quick 3 step passes and get Book into that mentality. But whatever the solution is, all i know is we miss that "Dex" type a lot.

 

[Junkhead]

Again, I disagree completely.

Wimbush beat out Book in practice last year. Look where that got us.

Kizer looked like complete dogsh*t in practice. Turned out to be very good in '15 when he was pressed into action.

Doing it in practice and doing it in a game are just not the same thing. Wimbush could do it in practice, but when the lights went on, he struggled.

I also do not agree with your assumption that the run game and OL are attributing to Book's struggles. The line is giving him plenty of time in the pocket to work with but he continues to not see the field, and when his first read isn't there, he panics and bails out of the pocket, even when he doesn't have to. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if more than half of the sacks given up this season were because of Book's pocket awareness or unnecessary bailing.

If anything, Book is making the OL look bad by taking unnecessary sacks and failing to find his receivers open time and time again. And Tony Jones had 131 yards rushing today and averaged 7.3 yards per carry. They had 168 yards rushing adjusted for sacks, against a pretty good defense mind you.

Book was the one holding the offense back today, no question about it*

Sure, but who can say that Phil would be better? How do you know he has the "it factor". No one has seen much, but he wasn't great in the BG game. My point is that us arm chair QBs can pretend we know who is the best QB, but do we know more than the coaches who know and see these guys everyday?

 

[BobbyMac]

Sure, but who can say that Phil would be better? How do you know he has the "it factor". No one has seen much, but he wasn't great in the BG game. My point is that us arm chair QBs can pretend we know who is the best QB, but do we know more than the coaches who know and see these guys everyday?

I'll start. Me.

Phil will be better. Phil's ceiling is the highest since Clausen. Someday, Phil will confidently stay in the pocket and deliver strikes 50 yards down field.

This is not a call for him to start next week. The staff has to win now and 11-1 is doable. But if you were trying to win a NC, it's not happening this year or next so why not build for '21 or '22?

I think ND is finally over the talent hump to make that run. Book won't be here when Johnson & Tyree take over. He's doesn't have the elite skill set to pull it off regardless. Phil does. I don't think Chip Long on his worst day could stop Phil.

 

[phgreek]

Offense: The mental mistakes are maddening...like procedure penalties, and not getting the sticks on 3rd down...and finally, QB's brain shutting down after 2 seconds. He misses a number of folks breaking free late. Receivers are starting to realize this and they kinda mulled around today when book bought time, but they didn't create separation...so we get intentional grounding, sacked, book scrambling, etc. This offense lacks veteran leaders that consistently execute well...thats bad for accountability. This offense shows flashes...they just can't sustain it, and until the folks who are leaders start acting like it all the time...offense is going to be a boat anchor.

Defense: remember when the concern was the defense...namely linebackers. Well they've acquitted themselves pretty well. Lea is really good at making adjustments at the half. Dbacks are pretty good, but on contested balls...they gotta get heads around and finish through the ball...too many Gary Greys. D line...WOW! This team does not win today without an absolute monster second half from the Dline..

ST...not great today...all parts had things go wrong. Just sloppy, and not gonna get it done.

Defense ahead of schedule...offense dismally behind schedule.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Sure, but who can say that Phil would be better? How do you know he has the "it factor". No one has seen much, but he wasn't great in the BG game. My point is that us arm chair QBs can pretend we know who is the best QB, but do we know more than the coaches who know and see these guys everyday?

Again, just because a guy does it in practice doesn't mean that translates to live action.

To paraphrase Mike from ISD, we won't know if Phil has "it" until he's out there.

We don't know if Phil is better or has "it", but as of right now, Book doesn't have "it" and it would be very difficult to be worse.

It helps that Phil's ceiling is drastically higher than Book.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Offense: The mental mistakes are maddening...like procedure penalties, and not getting the sticks on 3rd down...and finally, QB's brain shutting down after 2 seconds. He misses a number of folks breaking free late. Receivers are starting to realize this and they kinda mulled around today when book bought time, but they didn't create separation...so we get intentional grounding, sacked, book scrambling, etc. This offense lacks veteran leaders that consistently execute well...thats bad for accountability. This offense shows flashes...they just can't sustain it, and until the folks who are leaders start acting like it all the time...offense is going to be a boat anchor.

Defense: remember when the concern was the defense...namely linebackers. Well they've acquitted themselves pretty well. Lea is really good at making adjustments at the half. Dbacks are pretty good, but on contested balls...they gotta get heads around and finish through the ball...too many Gary Greys. D line...WOW! This team does not win today without an absolute monster second half from the Dline..

ST...not great today...all parts had things go wrong. Just sloppy, and not gonna get it done.

Defense ahead of schedule...offense dismally behind schedule.

Re: the offense. I saw receivers getting open plenty of times. Book needs to stay in the pocket, stay composed and go through his progressions.

He's not doing it. He's so accustomed to the quick outs that he can't consistently maintain his composure in the pocket for 2 seconds before bailing. It's not the OL. They're doing their job, but Book has to execute. If he doesn't, put someone in that will.