2018 Pittsburgh Post Game

[Luckylucci]

So did this game make you think differently about the Irish this season?

It doesn't for me. We won back to back butt kickings of 2 big teams in 2 big environments, and this was expected.

Secondly, is Finke a NFL player?

No, not at all. Virtually every team in America is going to have games like this. It's important that we came out with a W. And have some time to get rested and re-focused.

 

[ACamp1900]

I mean 17-3 probably has to be our best 20 game run in a long time, maybe since the late 80s?

I'd say 92-93 just off of memory. I think 2011 to 2012 may match it too.

 

[notredomer23]

I'd say 92-93 just off of memory. I think 2011 to 2012 may match it too.

If you count a 20 game total a the end of 2012 not counting Bama, we were also 17-3.

 

[NDRock]

I'd say 92-93 just off of memory. I think 2011 to 2012 may match it too.

Yeah, we went 19-1 during a stretch from 92-94

 

[Irishize]

So did this game make you think differently about the Irish this season?

It doesn't for me. We won back to back butt kickings of 2 big teams in 2 big environments, and this was expected.

Secondly, is Finke a NFL player?

I agree w/ Pete Sampson when he said that the Bars injury will lead to ND dropping at least one game. They’ll be favored in every game but I think the Pitt game shows it’s more than just talent that wins games.

Let’s assume they beat Navy handily (I know that hasn’t worked well this season), the following week’s trip to Northwestern looms large. ND historically struggles lately the week after Navy & Fitzgerald will have his team in a lather. ND also historically stuggles at home on Senior Day so don’t assume FSU comes in and lays down.

 

[ickythump1225]

If you count a 20 game total a the end of 2012 not counting Bama, we were also 17-3.

If you start from week 1 in 2012 to our 7th game in 2013 we were 17-3, including BAMA. I already corrected myself. We were 12-1 in 2012 and started 5-2 in 2013.

 

[IrishLax]

I agree w/ Pete Sampson when he said that the Bars injury will lead to ND dropping at least one game. They’ll be favored in every game but I think the Pitt game shows it’s more than just talent that wins games.

Let’s assume they beat Navy handily (I know that hasn’t worked well this season), the following week’s trip to Northwestern looms large. ND historically struggles lately the week after Navy & Fitzgerald will have his team in a lather. ND also historically stuggles at home on Senior Day so don’t assume FSU comes in and lays down.

I dunno if the Bars injury will ensure ND drops a game, but what I will say is that the left side of the line is not getting it done. The right side is basically fine... I've got no problems there. But the left side seemingly gets zero push and gives up too many pressures. I know we can't realistically experiment with subs at LT, but I think there could be merit to trying a more powerful player at LG.

 

[ACamp1900]

It does frustrate me a bit this talk of "ND plays no one else"... Navy, Northwestern, Syracuse, FSU and USC is nobody?? That still has got to be one of the more challenging runs left in the top 25. I think this is a really good team but I'll be more surprised if they do go unbeaten than I will if they don't.

 

[ickythump1225]

It does frustrate me a bit this talk of "ND plays no one else"... Navy, Northwestern, Syracuse, FSU and USC is nobody?? That still has got to be one of the more challenging runs left in the top 25. I think this is a really good team but I'll be more surprised if they do go unbeaten than I will if they don't.

Those teams as individual teams aren't super impressive but when you have to play them 5 weeks in a row (going from Southern California, to Illinois, to Indiana, to play a "home" game in NYC which is Syracuse's turf, then back to Southern California) it's a tough road to hoe. This is why the SEC regularly schedules the Little Sisters of the Poor and Okefenokee Tech the week before rivalry week. They get a bye week right there in November.

 

[ACamp1900]

Those teams as individual teams aren't super impressive but when you have to play them 5 weeks in a row (going from Southern California, to Illinois, to Indiana, to play a "home" game in NYC which is Syracuse's turf, then back to Southern California) it's a tough road to hoe. This is why the SEC regularly schedules the Little Sisters of the Poor and Okefenokee Tech the week before rivalry week. They get a bye week right there in November.

You don't have to tell me this... I'm not just a member of this club, I'm the President. Totally agree, each of those games in a vacuum isn't terrible but in a run they are. I will add though those games don't equate "playing nobody" run or no run...

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I dunno if the Bars injury will ensure ND drops a game, but what I will say is that the left side of the line is not getting it done. The right side is basically fine... I've got no problems there. But the left side seemingly gets zero push and gives up too many pressures. I know we can't realistically experiment with subs at LT, but I think there could be merit to trying a more powerful player at LG.

FWIW, Pro Football Focus gave Eichenberg a really good score last week. It may be that left guard has been just that bad. In which case I think you give Banks the job and hope he grows into his ceiling.

 

[Irish YJ]

FWIW, Pro Football Focus gave Eichenberg a really good score last week. It may be that left guard has been just that bad. In which case I think you give Banks the job and hope he grows into his ceiling.

From what I've re-watched thus far, Eichenberg was the best OL overall, but I won't say he was great. The right side caved frequently, but neither side got push on rushing plays. TEs and WRs had their share of blocking whiffs too. A lot of people were looking confused at the packages getting thrown at us.

 

[dad4aa]

From what I've re-watched thus far, Eichenberg was the best OL overall, but I won't say he was great. The right side caved frequently, but neither side got push on rushing plays. TEs and WRs had their share of blocking whiffs too. A lot of people were looking confused at the packages getting thrown at us.

The worse whiff I saw was by Avery Davis on the last pass attempt of the second quarter. 3rd and goal from the 14 with 15 seconds left and he comes through untouched and sacks Book at the 24 causing us to settle for a FG.

 

[Irish YJ]

The worse whiff I saw was by Avery Davis on the last pass attempt of the second quarter. 3rd and goal from the 14 with 15 seconds left and he comes through untouched and sacks Book at the 24 causing us to settle for a FG.

I remember that one well. And there was another (not sure who, but thought it was a TE) that did the same. I commented "Ole" in the game thread at the time.

Listening to Freeman's podcast now. First question out of the gate (after the opening) is on the OL and blocking. Basically said at week 7, we have not improved all that much as a unit, and stepping back with injury to Bars.

 

[Irish YJ]

Freebie podcast from 247
https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/Podcast-No-4-Notre-Dame-perfect-but-flawed-123368211/

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Pitt was bringing a lot of run blitzes that we had difficulty with in the first half. I thought we did a good job in the second half with adjustments and getting downfield. I remember last year having a lot of the same issues with 2 first round picks. Good coaching by both Narduzzi and Long to get Book comfortable in the second.

 

[Irishize]

I dunno if the Bars injury will ensure ND drops a game, but what I will say is that the left side of the line is not getting it done. The right side is basically fine... I've got no problems there. But the left side seemingly gets zero push and gives up too many pressures. I know we can't realistically experiment with subs at LT, but I think there could be merit to trying a more powerful player at LG.

How many undefeated teams have made the CFP?

Kraemer still struggles. He’s slow & unathletic but hopefully his ankle will get better and he’ll be servicable. Hainsey has been so/so. I think Banks will eventually take over at LG. He didn’t do bad vs Pitt so the more reps he get, hopefully; he’ll cement himself as the starter

The ST is not championship level. I’d give Doerer the Navy game and then go w/ Yoon from there on out. Even the worst teams in America have kickers who can boot it out of the endzone. If they don’t do something about that, it’s going to bite them again. IIRC, ND has only been able to return 3/18 kickoffs.

If Alex Bars being out doesn’t cost them a game, I think Jack Swarbrick will. He’d never admit it but you can’t tell me he won’t be a bit nervous if ND goes into the Syracuse undefeated & it’s a tightly contested game.

Hopefully the Pitt game is their last hiccup. We gave them a pass on BSU & Vandy due to the QB change. Listening to podcasts today, all the analysts are already assuming a Navy win (which is rational) while worrying about Northwestern, FSU, SU (as they should).

If fans haven’t learned to not look over evern the worst opponent, they never will. At least Navy doesn’t have an open week before they travel to San Diego.

 

[stlnd01]

How many undefeated teams have made the CFP?

Three teams in four years.

Florida State in 2014
Clemson in 2015
Alabama in 2016
No one in 2017 (UCF was undefeated but finished 12th)

There won't suddenly be five this year. It's hard to do. If we're undefeated, we're in. Lose one (as I still think we will for the reasons you state, though I worry less about special teams than about the O Line), it depends who we lose to and how many lose two games.
I saw someone today - Stewart Mandel, I think - pick us to make it with a loss because he thought there'd be so few one-loss teams at this point.

 

[Irishize]

Three teams in four years.

Florida State in 2014
Clemson in 2015
Alabama in 2016
No one in 2017 (UCF was undefeated but finished 12th)

There won't suddenly be five this year. It's hard to do. If we're undefeated, we're in. Lose one (as I still think we will for the reasons you state, though I worry less about special teams than about the O Line), it depends who we lose to and how many lose two games.
I saw someone today - Stewart Mandel, I think - pick us to make it with a loss because he thought there'd be so few one-loss teams at this point.

That was my point...it’s rare there’s one undefeated team yet fans of every current undefeated team are convinced their team is the one to do it. That’s fine...but not realistic.

I agree w/ you on the OL>ST.

 

[stlnd01]

That was my point...it’s rare there’s one undefeated team yet fans of every current undefeated team are convinced their team is the one to do it. That’s fine...but not realistic.

Yes. This is the silly season, when everyone thinks all the good teams will win all the rest of their games and the playoff decisions will be MAYHEM!!!
But because we're talking about a bunch of 21-year-olds playing an inherently unpredictable sport, that will almost certainly not happen.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I actually said it wouldn’t hurt to have Wimbush in for one drive considering we didn’t do shit until the 4th. Even numerous older guys in the stands were saying same thing

Ah yes, the best player on the ND roster is always the backup QB.

 

[Irish YJ]

rewatched the rest of the game finally....

OL - lots of room for improvement. good downs and bad downs, but i wouldn't praise one of them. they were confused as hell with what Narduzzi was throwing at them.
WR/TE - good, can do a bit better blocking. overall great catching against very good coverage.
RBs - good when they had a chance, can do better at blocking
QB - Book haters need to rewatch. outside of the first INT, and a few other plays, he was great. did phenomenal in the 2H. There was a reason BK/Long started the second half drives by moving the pocket, and calling reverses.
DL - great at pressures, not so good at stopping the run.
DBs - pretty darn good all around
LBs - all three were very solid. could have done a little better vs the run.
STs - big mistakes in almost ever facet.

if any should get a game ball, it's Narduzzi play calling on D..

 

[Luckylucci]

I’ve rewatched the game and it’s not being a Book hater, he wasn’t good for the most part of 3 qtrs. 4th Qtr he was really good. The OL issues in the first half, in the pass game, had a lot to do with Book was not recognizing what Pitt was doing or rushing his progressions in clean pockets. There were a lot of plays he left on the field or he didn’t take. He messsed up two CB blitzes for first downs. One possibly a TD with a wide open Boykin with literally no defender accounting for him.

Driskell did a good breakdown of Books struggles in the first half. Then explained how it got better, which it did. Good read for those that can. Has visuals with it so you can see what’s happening.

 

[Irishize]

I’ve rewatched the game and it’s not being a Book hater, he wasn’t good for the most part of 3 qtrs. 4th Qtr he was really good. The OL issues in the first half, in the pass game, had a lot to do with Book was not recognizing what Pitt was doing or rushing his progressions in clean pockets. There were a lot of plays he left on the field or he didn’t take. He messsed up two CB blitzes for first downs. One possibly a TD with a wide open Boykin with literally no defender accounting for him.

Driskell did a good breakdown of Books struggles in the first half. Then explained how it got better, which it did. Good read for those that can. Has visuals with it so you can see what’s happening.

I agree with this^. The good thing is Book got some great OJT vs an agressive defense. Hopefully, he learned from the corner blitz not to turn into the rush but to step up and avoid the pressure. He’s a smart kid.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm a believer that multiple competing things can be true at the same time. That said...

-Every service called out the OL, and it bears out via stats.

-Every service called out Narduzzi for calling a great game plan. Every service said the blitzes were well timed, well disguised, and were almost, if not more common than not blitzing. Every service called out great coverage by Pitt's DBs.

-While Book could have trusted the pocket more at times, there were enough times he could not trust the pocket to make him question protection.

-Book wasn't the only one that did not trust the pocket, or the line in general. Play calling made that clear. Lack of run calls, play calling to move the pocket, play calling to start drives in the second half series to attack the edges in the rushing game.

-Book, while he took some sacks, also had the longest rush of the day, and I believe 2 or 3 of the top 5 rushing attempts. He only took 3 sacks, which IMO was decent given what Narduzzi was throwing him. The first big one is debatable as the right side was collapsing, and the left side broke containment early. One of the others was almost immediate penetration.

-Book threw 2 INTs. The first one was on him, the second was not. The second he was hit on the arm while in motion. If not hit, he would have likely hit the WR for a TD over the middle.

-I look at Book for what he is, and what we know he is good at. He's good at short to intermediate (he's improving as we saw with the long ball). He was starting his 4th game, never seeing a Narduzzi like attack. He wasn't perfect early, but adjusted. He was not however "bad" given the protection, and what Narduzzi was calling.

-His QB Rating (159) for that game was more than decent. 159 is still a top 25 average (QB Rating leaders for the year). His QBR sucked, but QBR is also detrimental to QBs who are short to intermediate passers, and very detrimental to QBs who have struggling OLs.

-Would love to read what Driskell said, but don't have Rivals. Driskell is a turd, don't really agree on much he says, and my least favorite (I think this a popular view). And lastly, Driskell is the same guy who talked about the OL regressing so much (like several others). And I think he was also the biggest BW apologist out there (at least the pre-season stuff I read).

Anyway.... if you agree the OL has major problems (which are evident to the eye, and advanced stats), agree Narduzzi called a hell of a game both blitz and coverage (which everyone has said), embrace the good stats (completion %) as much as the negs (sacks/Ints), and not fault a 4 game starter vs an exotic D for hitting his first read instead of holding and going through progressions... it's hard for me to say he was that "bad", even in the first half. All that is enough for me. I get it, you see it another way, and that's OK.