2018-2019 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

[arrowryan]

LOL Wtf kind of backhanded statement is this?

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2018-Basketball/Commits/

He's coming off the #15 overall class, with an average rating of .9486....

God forbid that freshmen need time to adjust to ACC caliber competition.

......
People need to realize how much Brey has over excelled at developing talent, Mooney being the latest.
Bonzie, Farrell, Abromaitis, Harnagody, Hansbrough, McAlarney, Auguste, etc, etc....
Even project players like the Geben's/Ty Nash's finished really, really solid.

All HUGE overachievers.

God forbid two players (like posters like to exaggerate) Rex and TJ "plateau", it's back to the shitcan for Brey... Total BUST of a talent developer.

If peiople think his "development failure rate" is high, they should look at Kelly...

You missed the part where I said "year in and year out". I'm very aware of how good his recent class was and the potential they have. But he certainly doesn't get classes like that every year or even every few years. The 2018 class is almost an outlier to the rest of his recruiting classes if you look solely at star rankings.

These games against Duke and UVA could've been much different on paper if the 2015 and 2017 classes were better and he could figure out how to recruit a damn big man.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

You missed the part where I said "year in and year out". I'm very aware of how good his recent class was and the potential they have. But he certainly doesn't get classes like that every year or even every few years. The 2018 class is almost an outlier to the rest of his recruiting classes if you look solely at star rankings.

These games against Duke and UVA could've been much different on paper if the 2015 and 2017 classes were better and he could figure out how to recruit a damn big man.

Bonzie wasn't a big?
Auguste?
Juwan? (transfer)

You need to understand the limitations of college basketball, both with recruiting and talent development. You're clearly out of your element and have unrealistic expectations for what's achievable for (most) college basketball programs' fight for consistency.

I'm so sorry to you that we are not Duke or Kentucky.

 

[arrowryan]

Bonzie wasn't a big?
Auguste?
Juwan? (transfer)

You need to understand the limitations of college basketball, both with recruiting and talent development. You're clearly out of your element and have unrealistic expectations for what's achievable for (most) college basketball programs' fight for consistency.

I'm so sorry to you that we are not Duke or Kentucky.

Auguste, Colson, and Geben were all recruited years ago. Yeah, they are all good examples and had good careers, but we can’t just stop there. They need to keep bringing them in. I guess we can say Durham, but I’d feel more comfortable if Brey and staff can get these guys straight out of high school and not have to rely on a transfer.

I know this isn’t Notre Dame football or Duke basketball where their resources are endless. But Brey and the team got a taste of greatness in 2014 and 2015 and it’s seems like every year since they’ve taken a step back from getting back to that. The 2018 class might be able to get them back there, but you shouldn’t rely on one class to get you there. The 2017 class, so just Harvey, has been okay and the 2019 class is a big fat goose egg. Indiana is filled with good talent and there is a nationally ranked high school basketball team 45 minutes from Notre Dame. Brey doesn’t have to go far to get kids.

 

[arrowryan]

Okay they might be worse than I thought.

 

[Woneone]

Auguste, Colson, and Geben were all recruited years ago. Yeah, they are all good examples and had good careers, but we can’t just stop there. They need to keep bringing them in. I guess we can say Durham, but I’d feel more comfortable if Brey and staff can get these guys straight out of high school and not have to rely on a transfer.

I know this isn’t Notre Dame football or Duke basketball where their resources are endless. But Brey and the team got a taste of greatness in 2014 and 2015 and it’s seems like every year since they’ve taken a step back from getting back to that. The 2018 class might be able to get them back there, but you shouldn’t rely on one class to get you there. The 2017 class, so just Harvey, has been okay and the 2019 class is a big fat goose egg. Indiana is filled with good talent and there is a nationally ranked high school basketball team 45 minutes from Notre Dame. Brey doesn’t have to go far to get kids.

Even the three listed were only 3 star prospects (although Bonzie may have been top 150), developed and turned into major contributors (I think Martin's offer list included teams like George Mason and Fairfield). The last few years have shown an uptick in recruiting ranks, and 2019 is a bit of an anomaly due to the 2018 class. If you want to argue we shouldn't have put all our eggs in the Stewart/Anthony basket, fine. But those are the type of recruits your talking about, and we missed.

My concern isn't the recruiting, but when Ingelsby left, our guard development has seemed pretty stagnant. That's the life blood of the program, that development, and if that goes, we could be in a bit of trouble if we miss on the more often than not.

 

[Woneone]

Okay they might be worse than I thought.

The takeaway from the game so far should be that Virginia is frightening...

 

[Irish YJ]

The takeaway from the game so far should be that Virginia is frightening...

feeling flashbacks to last night's IU/scUM game...

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Something I have noticed this year that thinking back seems much different than those good years is that now the players seem to get the ball, dribble around to try to find their shot, and then if they can't find their shot they lazily pass the ball to someone else to try. So much of what our offense was when we were better was players looking for the hockey assist and everyone on the court seeing it the same way.

Honestly one of the reasons I didn't love the teams built around Bonzie was because so often they would be passing the ball around and then it would get to him and it would stay there for the rest of the shot clock. While that is nice to know you have someone to go to when the clock winds down, it definitely disrupts the flow if it happens early in the clock. Its kind of the same with Mooney now; the players try to get their own shot and if nothing is open they either try to force it or dump it off to Mooney.

I don't see anyone taking the role of a Vasturia or Pflueger where they will drive the bucket not to score, but to open up a lane, a shot, or another pass for a teammate to get the open shot. Maybe its a consequence of actually having most of our guards and wings be highly ranked players who are used to being able to take guys one on one, but the flow of the offense and the mentality of doing the dirty work, taking the extra pass, and finding the open shot are just not there this year.

I don't know if Brey sees it the same way and realizes its just a consequence of the young, highly rated players that will go away with time or if its a bigger problem that is changing the culture of the program in a way that isn't beneficial for our long term success.

 

[fightingirish26]

I don't see anyone taking the role of a Vasturia or Pflueger where they will drive the bucket not to score, but to open up a lane, a shot, or another pass for a teammate to get the open shot. Maybe its a consequence of actually having most of our guards and wings be highly ranked players who are used to being able to take guys one on one, but the flow of the offense and the mentality of doing the dirty work, taking the extra pass, and finding the open shot are just not there this year.

I think Goodwin is showing signs of becoming this guy, when he's aggressive he's been successful.

 

[Henges24]

Harvey showing what he’s capable of on those last two possessions and then blocking the shot on the other end.

I think Goodwin is showing signs of becoming this guy, when he's aggressive he's been successful.

Agree I think Goodwin is the only freshman that is actually ready to play.

 

[Henges24]

Something I have noticed this year that thinking back seems much different than those good years is that now the players seem to get the ball, dribble around to try to find their shot, and then if they can't find their shot they lazily pass the ball to someone else to try. So much of what our offense was when we were better was players looking for the hockey assist and everyone on the court seeing it the same way. .

I would like to think that this has to do with chemistry.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Harvey showing what he’s capable of on those last two possessions and then blocking the shot on the other end.







Agree I think Goodwin is the only freshman that is actually ready to play.

Carmody was even more ready too. Losing him sucked so badly.

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[stpeteirish]

Carmody was even more ready too. Losing him sucked so badly.

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Carmody shot 32.4%, 9.1% from three in the nine games he played before the injury. So, not really ready. Looked good when he wasn't missing shots.

Las has also been terrible shooting, both he and Carmody have had the same issues, rushing their shots. Hopefully next year is a new beginning. If not, were pretty much buried in the ultra deep ACC.

 

[irishrb]

This team just isn't playing well right now...Really disappointed with Harvey and Gibbs..

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

This team just isn't playing well right now...Really disappointed with Harvey and Gibbs..

K

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[Crazy Balki]

The takeaway from the game so far should be that Virginia is frightening...

Agreed. Virginia has done that to pretty much everybody they've played this year minus Duke and some very few exceptions.

This team is a long ways away, but this was a matter of a team with far more depth, experience and developed talent taking it to a young, inexperienced and undeveloped squad.

 

[Crazy Balki]

This team just isn't playing well right now...Really disappointed with Harvey and Gibbs..

Why?

I understand Gibbs to an extent, because his offense has stagnated, but I think having a true freshman running things and the over lack of efficient ball movement is hindering his game as well.

As for Harvey, the dude is coming off extensive knee surgery in the offseason. It's clear that he is not 100% yet and his lack of athleticism is hurting him.

 

[irishff1014]

There hasn’t been many games on I have been able to watch but the 2 that I have watched they don’t drive the ball well to the board and they take a lot of bad shots behind the arch. The free throw shooting hasn’t been good in the 2 games I watched. I do understand that the injuries have hampered this team and plays a part in the team chemistry on the court but shew the players are clearly going through the motions it seems.

 

[irishrb]

Why?

I understand Gibbs to an extent, because his offense has stagnated, but I think having a true freshman running things and the over lack of efficient ball movement is hindering his game as well.

As for Harvey, the dude is coming off extensive knee surgery in the offseason. It's clear that he is not 100% yet and his lack of athleticism is hurting him.

I just expected them to be the more consistent leaders of the team. Mooney, and to an extent, Goodwin now, are the only cosistent players on the team. No reason why Gibbs and Harvey aren't stepping into their roles by now.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I just expected them to be the more consistent leaders of the team. Mooney, and to an extent, Goodwin now, are the only cosistent players on the team. No reason why Gibbs and Harvey aren't stepping into their roles by now.

Again, Harvey is coming off an extensive knee surgery and missed almost all of off-season conditioning. Hard to be a consistent offensive leader when you're not close to fully healthy. As for Gibbs, I just don't think he's a point, which is why Hubb has taken on the responsibility and shows the direction this team has decided to take: rebuild.

 

[irishandy]

Rebuild year for sure. ND is too young right now, there is a lot to like for the future. I think the freshman class has potential to be real good when they are juniors, Mooney's game is growing, and hopefully Duran can be a better post/inside player.

I miss the burn offense and when Notre Dame made their free throws. Seems like the past couple of years they have lacked at the free throw line.

Hopefully patience will pay off for this team....

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

There hasn’t been many games on I have been able to watch but the 2 that I have watched they don’t drive the ball well to the board and they take a lot of bad shots behind the arch. The free throw shooting hasn’t been good in the 2 games I watched. I do understand that the injuries have hampered this team and plays a part in the team chemistry on the court but shew the players are clearly going through the motions it seems.

"going through the motions"...???

Bahaha.
Dude, they're inexperienced, undermanned, banged up and literally pulling off redshirts to "make by".

I'm sorry, but if you're judging this team based on their record and margin of defeat (which has actually been phenomenal, sans Virginia and Duke next) you're in for a long road.

This is the struggle of "most" college basketball teams... Consistent recruiting, staying healthy, avoiding transfers, and finding ways to scrap by some years.

Look at the IUs and Purdues of the world... You think they pump out consistent teams year after year? And those are "basketball schools" to boot.

Welcome to ncaa basketball, hope you learn more about it.

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[stpeteirish]

Think Brey needs to hit the Grad transfer market HARD this off season. There has to be a point guard at a mid major who would jump at the chance to play in the ACC. Won't be hard to get an upgrade from Hubb and the year of development as a third guard would be valuable for PH.

Unless we sign Cole Anthony, of course.

 

[BabyIrish]

Got to attend the Virginia game. The team is obviously young. The freshman don't know the offense, which is understandable and it clearly shows. We are lost on offense for the most part.

Our defense isn't much better. We could not figure out how to defend screens, whether it was off the ball or a pick and roll. Way too many easy baskets. It's understandable as this is a young team.

You can also see that the team is extremely tired. Mooney came out and lit up the start of the second half with a bunch of buckets to help trim the lead to 12. Then shortly thereafter you could tell he was out of gas. Brey's a great coach don't get me wrong but you have to play Chris Doherty more minutes so Mooney is fresh at the end of the game. I know he may not be ready but I don't see any point in wearing down Mooney knowing the season is already lost.

One thing I'll say is for all the hype on Nate L that guy has the flattest shot in the country right now. All of his three's are line drives. He needs to get more arc on his shot.

Dane Goodwin is a beast. He's gonna be a great four year player for us. Can't wait to see this team in two years. They'll make a run for sure.

 

[RDU Irish]

I just expected them to be the more consistent leaders of the team. Mooney, and to an extent, Goodwin now, are the only cosistent players on the team. No reason why Gibbs and Harvey aren't stepping into their roles by now.

Agree Mooney and Goodwin are the only two players earning their starts right now. Between them and Gibbs/Harvey we should be a lot more competitive and not really playing as young as we are. Give me a break on Harvey not being 100% - his footwork and work within the team offense and defense should be a lot further along than they are. He just seems to be doing his own thing out there 80% of the time.

Gibbs problem is 100% between his ears. Trying to do way to much and rushing everything is rubbing off on most of the team. Kid is good, just playing like garbage. I think most of us expected an uptick in shooting percentage with Rex going down, quite the opposite has happened. I hardly even care about defense right now as the offense is such a meandering mess it hardly matters.

Watching teams around the country and the ability of so many to finish at the hoop versus our go-to drive for a foul and throw up a prayer.

 

[NDMIA]

Think Brey needs to hit the Grad transfer market HARD this off season. There has to be a point guard at a mid major who would jump at the chance to play in the ACC. Won't be hard to get an upgrade from Hubb and the year of development as a third guard would be valuable for PH.

Unless we sign Cole Anthony, of course.

2019-2020 Roster (11 Scholarships)
RS JR 6’11” 225 Juwan Durham
SO 6’10” 200 Nate Laszewski
SR 6’9” 245 John Mooney
SO 6’8” 225 Chris Doherty
RS JR 6’7” 215 Nikola Djogo
JR 6’6” 225 DJ Harvey
RS SR 6’6” 210 Rex Pfleuger
SO 6’6” 205 Dane Goodwin
RS FR 6’4” 205 Robby Carmody
SR 6’3” 195 TJ Gibbs
SO 6’3” 170 Prentiss Hubb

The issue with Mike Brey when it comes to roster management has been his propensity to go after 5 star recruits and not have many contingency plans in place. 11 scholarship players is fine for a team but it’s preferable for coaches to have 13 slots all filled up. Chris Doherty is an example of a guy who a consensus 4 star recruit and an awesome talent who’s going to Harvard but wasn’t recruited all that hard by Notre Dame because he was down their list of players. Tre Mitchell mentioned in an interview a few days ago that he hears from ND, every once in a while which doesn’t sound like very hard recruiting for the 84th best player in the senior class. I get that ND wants to get the one and done dudes and take the program into the next level, but all of those guys are turning down ND right now and they need to get freshman on campus who can develop under Mike Brey. Hopefully in the spring, Brey can add a big man and a guard (preferably PG) to the roster for the upcoming season. Whether that is Tre Mitchell and Cole Anthony or a transfer that has to sit a year at the big spot and a grad transfer at PG I’m not sure, but ND needs to be full on scholarships so they can ease along their younger players and not have to force them into burning redshirts. It sucks what they’ve done with Chris Doherty cause he’s the perfect candidate for an ND five year plan where he could be really effective in his 3-4-5th years on campus.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

2019-2020 Roster (11 Scholarships)
RS JR 6’11” 225 Juwan Durham
SO 6’10” 200 Nate Laszewski
SR 6’9” 245 John Mooney
SO 6’8” 225 Chris Doherty
RS JR 6’7” 215 Nikola Djogo
JR 6’6” 225 DJ Harvey
RS SR 6’6” 210 Rex Pfleuger
SO 6’6” 205 Dane Goodwin
RS FR 6’4” 205 Robby Carmody
SR 6’3” 195 TJ Gibbs
SO 6’3” 170 Prentiss Hubb

The issue with Mike Brey when it comes to roster management has been his propensity to go after 5 star recruits and not have many contingency plans in place. 11 scholarship players is fine for a team but it’s preferable for coaches to have 13 slots all filled up. Chris Doherty is an example of a guy who a consensus 4 star recruit and an awesome talent who’s going to Harvard but wasn’t recruited all that hard by Notre Dame because he was down their list of players. Tre Mitchell mentioned in an interview a few days ago that he hears from ND, every once in a while which doesn’t sound like very hard recruiting for the 84th best player in the senior class. I get that ND wants to get the one and done dudes and take the program into the next level, but all of those guys are turning down ND right now and they need to get freshman on campus who can develop under Mike Brey. Hopefully in the spring, Brey can add a big man and a guard (preferably PG) to the roster for the upcoming season. Whether that is Tre Mitchell and Cole Anthony or a transfer that has to sit a year at the big spot and a grad transfer at PG I’m not sure, but ND needs to be full on scholarships so they can ease along their younger players and not have to force them into burning redshirts. It sucks what they’ve done with Chris Doherty cause he’s the perfect candidate for an ND five year plan where he could be really effective in his 3-4-5th years on campus.

Chris could still sit out next year.

Unfortunate that Brey had to pull it, but he was hamstrung.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Agree Mooney and Goodwin are the only two players earning their starts right now. Between them and Gibbs/Harvey we should be a lot more competitive and not really playing as young as we are. Give me a break on Harvey not being 100% - his footwork and work within the team offense and defense should be a lot further along than they are. He just seems to be doing his own thing out there 80% of the time.

This is really petty of you. As a mental exercise, and out of hopes you'll learn from your apathy, I'll let you reread and hear how sad your tone is.

 

[RDU Irish]

This is really petty of you. As a mental exercise, and out of hopes you'll learn from your apathy, I'll let you reread and hear how sad your tone is.

You are right - on everything, always. Expecting Harvey to be a key player this year and help facilitate Brey's system is completely unreasonable. How could we ever expect that Harvey would be asked to do a lot this year and step up. Its not like he is highly rated and was the only guy taken in his class or had damn near guaranteed playing time in front of him from day one.

This season getting turned around starts and ends with Gibbs and Harvey. Expecting the frosh to make it happen is not only unreasonable but less than ideal for the future of the team.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I still have hope for Harvey. I've given up hope of much more growth from Gibbs. He is what he is. He's really at his best as a spot up shooter when the offense has good ball movement. He's a decent ball handler, but can't drive and finish. He's been put in a spot where he feels pressure to do too much and the results are not usually good.