2016 Presidential Horse Race

[Black Irish]

Ahhh... The irony of all of the Catholics turning on the pope the very first moment that it looks like he says something negative against the conservative US political mantra.

Lemmings... The lot of ya....

Or, it's possible for a conservative Catholic to find Trump's political rhetoric silly and churlish while also not appreciating the Pope's indelicate and hypocritical statements. I don't think the Pope is entirely wrong in his assessment, especially allowing for possible problems in translation. What bothers me is how the Pope will routinely demur about other subjects on which he can easily take a firm stance backed by the Canon of the Church, but is all too willing to sound off on subjects where he can score PC points.

 

[DillonHall]

Why are you afraid of government programs that try to help others? Are you against living in a nation where our government tries to feed our hungry and heal our sick?

As a Christian, I want to do anything and everything we can to help those in need. And if God forbid that means a tax increase for me, I'd be willing to do so.

Love how liberals frame this...

The question isn't whether those in more fortunate circumstances should help the poor. It's whether government has the right to obligate them to do so.

As a Christian, I find it rewarding to donate my time and money to help the poor. But I don't think government has a right to take nearly 40% of a portion of my income. Yet some are proposing that this isn't high enough?

 

[kmoose]

Can you point me toward a quote from Francis (or Benedict, for that matter) indicating that predatory clerics are just fallible Christians who deserve a 2nd chance?

No. I'm admittedly just assuming that the continued presence of priests who there was significant reason to believe were abusing children in the Church is indicative of his beliefs. And I realize that is not a concrete way of looking at it. I was just offering an observation. If others don't see it, that's fine with me, too.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Love how liberals frame this...

The question isn't whether those in more fortunate circumstances should help the poor. It's whether government has the right to obligate them to do so.

As a Christian, I find it rewarding to donate my time and money to help the poor. But I don't think government has a right to take nearly 40% of a portion of my income. Yet some are proposing that this isn't high enough?

Exactly. He thinks we should all be doing more for the poor, so all our taxes should be raised. I say if he believes that, start writing checks to those federal departments on your own. Similar to what you say, I'll continue paying my taxes like everyone else and spending my time and money with charities, which people do WITHOUT government forcing it.

 

[Buster Bluth]

You sound like you're 17. How old are you? If that's the case I'll just ignore your posts. I have no interest in debating with a teenager.

It's always "government program" or "people will starve and die" with you. Those are the only two options. Ends the argument.

We all pay taxes for government programs that house and feed people every day. If you want to contribute more, then start writing checks to those departments. I'll continue donating to the 3 charities of my CHOOSING aside from that. See the difference?

Speaking of teenagers, one would probably need to have their level of experience in the world to think leaving the social safety net to the whims of religious entities is the best solution.

My original point was that Christianity is based on free will, not free entry to any country you want, or free college, or free healthcare, or free lunch. My point wasn't that I want kids to starve. My point was that it isn't free. Someone has to pay for it.

Also based on a guy who spent his entire time on Earth going around showing endless love and devotion to different factions of society that had been ostracized by the ignorant majority who thought they were being righteous enough in their habits. I'm pretty sure Jesus went out of his way to point out that earthly possessions are meaningless, that rich people aren't getting through the gates upstairs, and that we should love our enemies and the poor unconditionally as a sign of devotion to god. In other words, the exact opposite of the ugly populism Trump has built a campaign on. Or maybe I read the wrong book growing up.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Exactly. He thinks we should all be doing more for the poor, so all our taxes should be raised. I say if he believes that, start writing checks to those federal departments on your own. Similar to what you say, I'll continue paying my taxes like everyone else and spending my time and money with charities, which people do WITHOUT government forcing it.

Yeah but Mark 12:14-17 says "the clowns on AM radio are right, the small portion of your taxes that go to feeding the poor, most of whom are elderly, disabled, or children, are great points to complain about. Do so at every opportunity and forget the part where I said love your enemy because we need another aircraft carrier immediately"

Or wait never mind it's actually...

"Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not? Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”

But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him."

 

[GoIrish41]

Again I'll ask why not more criticism from the Pope (and everyone, really) on Venezuela? In the US we DO care for the poor through government programs (effectiveness can be debated) and nonprofit orgs. Meanwhile in Venezuela, people really are starving because the government took over everything and promised everything for "the people."

Venezuela’s Food Shortages Trigger Long Lines, Hunger and Looting - WSJ

“What’s certain is that we are going very hungry here and the children are suffering a lot,” said María Palma, a 55-year-old grandmother who on a recent blistering hot day had been standing in line at the grocery store since 3 a.m. before walking away empty-handed at midday.

Resident Yusleidy Márquez said she too fears the worst. The basket of subsidized food the government gives her mother every 15 days only feeds her family for two days. Lately, she only eats a cornmeal patty for lunch because she can’t afford more.

“I think we’re going to die of hunger,” she said.

That's how the United States used to be, too, before the evil, wasteful and inept government build programs to feed and house the poor.

 

[EddytoNow]

That's how the United States used to be, too, before the evil, wasteful and inept government build programs to feed and house the poor.

You left out the key parts of the Conservative argument. Large segments of the poor are ignorant, lazy, unmotivated to better themselves, illegally in the country, non-English speaking, over-weight because of bad nutritional choices, and prone to committing crimes. The poor would also like to be able to take their children and themselves to a doctor when they are sick. How dare the poor ask for something the middle-class and wealthy take for granted, such as food, clothing, medical care, and a place to live?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

To anyone who thinks that charity and social benefits should be left to the public, with little to no government aid, I don't know what to say to you.

If you honestly believe organized (and unorganized) religions will be able to provided subsidized housing, feed the poor, provide free public schooling, (etc) , as well as our government, then I feel bad for you. To believe that would require that you're living in a fantasy world and have certainly never faced anything near socio-economic rock bottom. Or, you're just a selfish individual that's content with your life and expects others to be able to do the same.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

That's how the United States used to be, too, before the evil, wasteful and inept government build programs to feed and house the poor.

Capitalism has made us the most prosperous society in history. Socialism has led to social unrest and starving people in Venezuela.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm repeating myself, but the socialism vs capitalism debate is dumb because it's not a binary decision.

A completely socialist economy is prone to all kinds of issues as has been proven time and time again historically, and laissez faire capitalism absolutely screws everyone but a select few people who control all power/capital.

It's about finding a balance between government control/regulation and the flexibility of capital-driven innovation and growth.

With respect to Venezuela, anyone who didn't see that their self-proclaimed socialist utopia was utterly doomed from the start doesn't know history. It's virtually irrelevant to the United States except as a cautionary reminder that if you cede ultimate power to a select few it ends badly every. single. time.

Similarly, there are many moderately socialist states in Europe that have big problems right now that we don't have... but we also have issues that they don't have. Who is truly better off? It's more of a complex question than many are willing to appreciate.

Sweden is great, sure. They also did ethnic-fucking-cleansing of their citizens with "undesirable genetic traits" for 40 years through compulsory sterilization. It sure if easy to have a society of productive, responsible people when you eliminate all the substandard ones over multiple generations...

Denmark is great, sure. They score excellent in many categories, including happiness "surveys"... they're also actually depressed, suicidal, alcoholics, don't have any children, have absurd amounts of personal debt, etc.

My point is simply that there are always pros and cons to everywhere. One of my best friends did his Mormon mission in Scandinavia, and I've met many of his Scandinavian friends who work over here, some as diplomats. It's not perfect over there, not even close. Most I've talked to have said they have no interest going back if they can avoid it, but others think the US sucks. All of it is personal opinion and perspective.

Venezuela doesn't mean socialist principles "suck," and Scandinavian countries don't mean socialist principles are "great." The truth is that they're necessary and the question is which ones best fit your populous.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

To anyone who thinks that charity and social benefits should be left to the public, with little to no government aid, I don't know what to say to you.

If you honestly believe organized (and unorganized) religions will be able to provided subsidized housing, feed the poor, provide free public schooling, (etc) , as well as our government, then I feel bad for you. To believe that would require that you're living in a fantasy world and have certainly never faced anything near socio-economic rock bottom. Or, you're just a selfish individual that's content with your life and expects others to be able to do the same.

I didn't say anything close to that, and you're ignoring the political/ economic consequences of Venezuela's choices.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Why are you afraid of government programs that try to help others? Are you against living in a nation where our government tries to feed our hungry and heal our sick?

As a Christian, I want to do anything and everything we can to help those in need. And if God forbid that means a tax increase for me, I'd be willing to do so.



Also, as someone as already pointed out, Francis was clearly speaking metaphorically. What Trump is spreading is more than wall building. He's a xenophobic demagogue that's using racial and international fear mongering to scare confused Americans into radicalism.

I don't want Trump as the nominee, but all he said was "let's put a hold on this immigration thing until we figure out what the hell is going on and how we're vetting people." The security of the citizens is the president's number one priority. That's not fear mongering.

Mexico is a helluva lot tougher with their immigration policies than we are, and toss out thousands of foreigners daily. Want to label them racist demagogues too, or just the white guy with an R behind his name?

 

[kmoose]

He's a xenophobic demagogue that's using racial and international fear mongering to scare confused Americans into radicalism.

Only if you buy into the hyperbole that he said that all Mexicans are rapists and criminals, or that he would never ever allow a single Muslim into the country............. ever again. The Pope's comments weren't near as bad a I originally thought them to be, given the context that others have provided here(context meaning fuller quotes of exactly what was said). Are you willing to admit that some of Trump's words have been seriously mischaracterized?

 

[EddytoNow]

Capitalism has made us the most prosperous society in history. Socialism has led to social unrest and starving people in Venezuela.

Capitalism led to the collapse of the economy and the great depression. When the poor and middle-class were left out there was no market left to purchase the products of industry. Although the country is far from socialist, it was FDR and his socialist programs (WPA, CCC, etc.) that put the country back to work building the infrastructure that carried us for decades. During Bush II's administration we followed the Conservative approach and reduced taxes on the wealthiest. We waited for something to trickle down, and the economy headed towards a second depression. Bush and most conservatives opposed assistance to the faltering auto industry, which provided millions of jobs across the country. Obama, for all his faults, helped push through assistance for the auto manufacturers, and the auto industry rebounded. Now governors in the Midwest (Yes, I'm talking about you Kasich) are taking credit for savings thousands of auto industry jobs. Jobs that would have been lost if the federal government had not come to their assistance.

As far as Venezuela goes, its people were poor and starving long before socialism gained a foothold. It survived on a subsistence economy that was neither Capitalist nor Socialist until foreigners (in the name of Capitalism) came to exploit the country's natural resources. Capitalism and the dictators who benefited from the exploitation of natural resources bear more responsibility for the poverty so rampant in Central and South America. Socialism was a natural reaction to decades of impoverishment and exploitation at the hands of brutal dictators and their Capitalist backers.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Are there no secret Muslim terrorist running for potus this election?

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm repeating myself, but the socialism vs capitalism debate is dumb because it's not a binary decision.

A completely socialist economy is prone to all kinds of issues as has been proven time and time again historically, and laissez faire capitalism absolutely screws everyone but a select few people who control all power/capital.

It's about finding a balance between government control/regulation and the flexibility of capital-driven innovation and growth.

With respect to Venezuela, anyone who didn't see that their self-proclaimed socialist utopia was utterly doomed from the start doesn't know history. It's virtually irrelevant to the United States except as a cautionary reminder that if you cede ultimate power to a select few it ends badly every. single. time.

Similarly, there are many moderately socialist states in Europe that have big problems right now that we don't have... but we also have issues that they don't have. Who is truly better off? It's more of a complex question than many are willing to appreciate.

Sweden is great, sure. They also did ethnic-fucking-cleansing of their citizens with "undesirable genetic traits" for 40 years through compulsory sterilization. It sure if easy to have a society of productive, responsible people when you eliminate all the substandard ones over multiple generations...

Denmark is great, sure. They score excellent in many categories, including happiness "surveys"... they're also actually depressed, suicidal, alcoholics, don't have any children, have absurd amounts of personal debt, etc.

My point is simply that there are always pros and cons to everywhere. One of my best friends did his Mormon mission in Scandinavia, and I've met many of his Scandinavian friends who work over here, some as diplomats. It's not perfect over there, not even close. Most I've talked to have said they have no interest going back if they can avoid it, but others think the US sucks. All of it is personal opinion and perspective.

Venezuela doesn't mean socialist principles "suck," and Scandinavian countries don't mean socialist principles are "great." The truth is that they're necessary and the question is which ones best fit your populous.

Great post.

 

[connor_in]

First coin tosses now aces?

Clinton wins precinct with lucky ace | TheHill

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

First coin tosses now aces?

Clinton wins precinct with lucky ace | TheHill

God must be on her side...

 

[BGIF]

First coin tosses now aces?

Clinton wins precinct with lucky ace | TheHill

God must be on her side...

One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand-new deck of cards and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you're going to wind up with an ear full of cider.

Sky Masterson

 

[phgreek]

man...old Bern won more counties and hung in there in the rest...

Hill-Bill are woblin', and would be taking a standing 8 count if not for the DNC...this is fun to watch...GO BERN!

 

[brick4956]

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2Ug9hHe_iZg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[brick4956]

Clinton's Campaign Just Got Busted Impersonating Union Nurses in Nevada
more examples of clinton supporters being shady pieces of shit

 

[wizards8507]

Jeb! is out.

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.

 

[GoIrish41]

Jeb! is out.

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.

Has to help Rubio, right? If Kasich suspends too, Rubio becomes a power candidate with an extra 15 percent support behind him. That would have pushed him past Trump in SC. Clear out the also-rans and this is a new race.

 

[GATTACA!]

Has to help Rubio, right? If Kasich suspends too, Rubio becomes a power candidate with an extra 15 percent support behind him. That would have pushed him past Trump in SC. Clear out the also-rans and this is a new race.

You're assuming Rubio takes all those gains.

 

[GoIrish41]

You're assuming Rubio takes all those gains.

Pretty sure he gets most of Jeb and Kasich's support. They were the anti-Trump establishment candidates ... and nobody can stand Cruz. Rubio is the best shot for the GOP right now, IMO.

 

[BGIF]

candidate	votes	%	pledged delegates
Trump        238,509  32.5%  44
Rubio      165,046	22.5%  0
Cruz	     164,004	22.3%  0
Bush	      57,573	 7.8%    0
Kasich      56,042	7.6%    0
Carson     53,089	7.2%    0

Trump won all but 2 counties.

Rubio beat Trump in Richland Co by about 1800 votes and Charleston by about 800.

 

[IrishLax]

Civil Rights Legend Says Sanders Supporters Yelled 'English Only' At Her Shocking! Who would've ever thought supporters of Sanders would ever do something like this!?! Or maybe...

Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant 'English Only' at Dolores Huerta in Nevada? : snopes.com Yeah, just more lies from Hillary's camp and more misinformation to try to discredit anyone who stands against her as racist/sexist/bigot/evil/whatever. Disgusting. This is a textbook example of why you should NEVER believe a word that comes out of the mouth of an "activist."

 

[brick4956]

The person that said english was the moderator, and everyone else was yelling neutral as said civil rights leader is a hillary supporter