2015 Spring Practice Thread

[irishandy]

- Sad to hear about Ben Councell, best of luck to him.
- Love to hear Chase's attitude, I had the pleasure to speak to his parents last year on Sr. day.
- I really hope there is a roster spot for Ishaq
- Is Anthony Rabasa moving on??

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

He's not moving though, right? Sounds like he's going to split time to provide more depth at RB in the Spring. I would not be shocked if this experiment ended at the conclusion of the spring game.

I think it carries through to the season but I don't think he'll be slotted as a RB. He'll still be a slot receiver who takes sweeps/jet sweeps and any other creative plays to get the ball to him without requiring he catch it down field. Hopefully we see a wheel route at some point

 

[Luckylucci]

The good news is he has Spring, Summer and Fall to get it sorted out.

Absolutely, not uncommon at all for players to come into spring or even summer camp a little overweight. Combine the young kids metabolism with how much they workout and he can do that easily.

 

[PANDFAN]

- Sad to hear about Ben Councell, best of luck to him.
- Love to hear Chase's attitude, I had the pleasure to speak to his parents last year on Sr. day.
- I really hope there is a roster spot for Ishaq
- Is Anthony Rabasa moving on??

nothing was mentioned, but he isn't on the roster

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Just to carry the speculation some more, I'd expect Jhonny Williams to play at the mid 240s. If the conditioning amps up and we take Kelly's subtle hints, they'd like him to shed a little as they move through spring practice.

His athleticism is what makes him so prized and any weight that detracts from that is reducing his potential on the field.

Of course, I don't know that he's incapable of being as explosive at 256/260 as 240ish but that would be my guess given he arrived in SB just above 200, yes? Around 220 maybe?

40ish lbs is a lot of extra weight. Go buy 40 lbs of meat and imagine strapping that on yourself.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

He's not moving though, right? Sounds like he's going to split time to provide more depth at RB in the Spring. I would not be shocked if this experiment ended at the conclusion of the spring game.

That's how I took also.

 

[Free Manera]

Absolutely, not uncommon at all for players to come into spring or even summer camp a little overweight. Combine the young kids metabolism with how much they workout and he can do that easily.

Yep. In fact, it's necessary. For 99.9% of the population it is impossible to gain solely lean muscle without gaining a portion of fat. The body just doesn't work that way (without chemical assistance, that is). So, as long as he gained some muscle along with the extra padding, he did his job. Losing fat while preserving most of that muscle is the next challenge but that can be done with the right diet and most S&C programs have the science end of that pretty much figured out.

Long story short, need to gain some fat to gain some muscle so give the kids a break until you see how they cut down in the summer.

 

[BoredIrish]

He's not moving though, right? Sounds like he's going to split time to provide more depth at RB in the Spring. I would not be shocked if this experiment ended at the conclusion of the spring game.

Probably just running a bunch of Jet Sweeps.

 

[BoredIrish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BK: Max Redfield had a terrific bowl game, all came together for him in the game. Saw realization of athletic ability w/football knowledge</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/577867349564489728">March 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Kelly says “it all came together” for Max Redfield in the Music City Bowl. Mentions the previous “disconnect” between talent and knowledge.</p>— Andrew Owens (@BGI_AndrewOwens) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_AndrewOwens/status/577867387724259328">March 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BK: Would be disappointed if staff didn't see that trend continue in the spring. Wants to build on success against LSU</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/577867469458710529">March 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Am I the only one that doesn't remember any of this taking place?

I thought Redfield played poorly in the Bowl game and got beat deep a couple times???

 

[PANDFAN]

Am I the only one that doesn't remember any of this taking place?

I thought Redfield played poorly in the Bowl game and got beat deep a couple times???

had 12+ tackles etc but he had 1 or 2 blown plays it appeared...there were mixed reviews on his play in that game...i think it was the amount of tackles which made it seem really good

 

[Luckylucci]

Am I the only one that doesn't remember any of this taking place?

I thought Redfield played poorly in the Bowl game and got beat deep a couple times???

Statistically he had a very good game and thus made some all bowl teams. However, he was at the very least partially responsible for two of the big Td's that LSU had. Without the big plays that were given up LSU had a hard time moving the ball. In reality if you take out the 3 long Td's and LSU was having a really hard time moving the ball. I think the staff is using that as a positive place to start from. They need to build his confidence and thats a place to start.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Yep. In fact, it's necessary. For 99.9% of the population it is impossible to gain solely lean muscle without gaining a portion of fat. The body just doesn't work that way (without chemical assistance, that is). So, as long as he gained some muscle along with the extra padding, he did his job. Losing fat while preserving most of that muscle is the next challenge but that can be done with the right diet and most S&C programs have the science end of that pretty much figured out.

Long story short, need to gain some fat to gain some muscle so give the kids a break until you see how they cut down in the summer.

The bolded is simply not true. It may be difficult and you may have to work on understanding how to trigger an anabolic environment in *your* body through proper nutrition, exercise and rest but it can occur. This is well-documented in a number of journals should you be interested in reading. The most basic way to promote lean mass gain requires heavy doses of BCAA, the most important being leucine(I think?). In some tests involving rats with a chronic wasting disease, they were able to stop and reverse the wasting through these methods. They measured serum levels of AAs and did various combinations and found leucine to be the lynchpin but others are necessary for supportive roles.

The one caveat to that is most football players are on a truncated timeline so it would be difficult to attempt to gain 15 lbs in 4 months without acquiring fat. Most football nutrition programs all but require some fat gain in the offseason given the accelerated timeline for weight gain before practices. So you may be inadvertently correct.

 

[dublinirish]

BK in moving OT's to OG shocker!

 

[PANDFAN]

in order to build muscle you have to increase your calories from your maintenance calories...this will cause you to also gain some fat(bulking)..however, when he begins practices, the increased cardio will take care of itself...it will HOWEVER take some of the muscle as well

 

[IrishLion]

I, for one, will be bummed if Prosise doesn't go back to slot full-time after spring as a 1a/b alongside Carlisle (or any receiver that may step up as a slot option).

He struggles catching the ball at times, but in his limited touches as a slot receiver, he's been electric. I think his big-play potential far outweighs his questionable catching ability (which, IMO, is overstated a bit). I think he's a guy that would iron out the quirks in his game if he simply got more opportunities.

That's not to say he should never be used as a RB. I'd love to see a drive start with 4 WR's on the field, plus Prosise in the backfield. All of the possibilities.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

in order to build muscle you have to increase your calories from your maintenance calories...this will cause you to also gain some fat(bulking)..however, when he begins practices, the increased cardio will take care of itself...it will HOWEVER take some of the muscle as well

See above. Why do you have to increase your calories? To gain muscle, correct? If you are inputting the appropriate calorie numbers and you keep your AA serum levels high enough, you'll keep your body in an anabolic state which will continue to increase your musculature (hypertrophy), increase bone density (if you are incorporating lifts that add loads to your skeletal framework, think squats and deadlifts). You don't have to gain fat and you certainly don't have to gain appreciable fat while adding weight.

I put the disclaimer that most football programs that want their players gaining 40 lbs aren't interested in lean muscle gain but it is possible for the general public to gain lean mass without increasing their bodyfat percentage.

If you disagree, then I don't understand what grounds other than the incorrect argument: more calories equals fat?

 

[Free Manera]

See above. Why do you have to increase your calories? To gain muscle, correct? If you are inputting the appropriate calorie numbers and you keep your AA serum levels high enough, you'll keep your body in an anabolic state which will continue to increase your musculature (hypertrophy), increase bone density (if you are incorporating lifts that add loads to your skeletal framework, think squats and deadlifts). You don't have to gain fat and you certainly don't have to gain appreciable fat while adding weight.

I put the disclaimer that most football programs that want there players gaining 40 lbs aren't interested in lean muscle gain but it is possible for the general public to gain lean mass without increasing their bodyfat percentage.

If you disagree, then I don't understand what grounds other than the incorrect argument: more calories equals fat?

I am genuinely interested in this because it goes against everything I have ever read. Do you have a link to more info?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I am genuinely interested in this because it goes against everything I have ever read. Do you have a link to more info?

Layne Norton Pubs

A "friend" of mine received his PhD in nutritional biochemistry, his thesis revolved around skeletal muscle gain, which is very applicable to the discussion. I've posted a general search for his publications on Pubmed but I'm sure you can find much more info if you do some digging.

And lest ye think he's a desk warrior, here's his personal site: Biolayne | Official Website of Layne Norton

He truly is an animal in the weight room, sometimes overly theatrical but it's how he trains. A genuinely good guy who has found his niche.

 

[PANDFAN]

See above. Why do you have to increase your calories? To gain muscle, correct? If you are inputting the appropriate calorie numbers and you keep your AA serum levels high enough, you'll keep your body in an anabolic state which will continue to increase your musculature (hypertrophy), increase bone density (if you are incorporating lifts that add loads to your skeletal framework, think squats and deadlifts). You don't have to gain fat and you certainly don't have to gain appreciable fat while adding weight.

I put the disclaimer that most football programs that want their players gaining 40 lbs aren't interested in lean muscle gain but it is possible for the general public to gain lean mass without increasing their bodyfat percentage.

If you disagree, then I don't understand what grounds other than the incorrect argument: more calories equals fat?

you are not going to gain significant muscle without the tried and true method i noted above...you can make small gains of muscle by doing a recomp where you are gaining lean muscle while trying to lose bf at the same time but it isn't adding a noticeable amount...and this is something that isn't going to happen in month etc

 

[PANDFAN]

Layne Norton Pubs

A "friend" of mine received his PhD in nutritional biochemistry, his thesis revolved around skeletal muscle gain, which is very applicable to the discussion. I've posted a general search for his publications on Pubmed but I'm sure you can find much more info if you do some digging.

And lest ye think he's a desk warrior, here's his personal site: Biolayne | Official Website of Layne Norton

He truly is an animal in the weight room, sometimes overly theatrical but it's how he trains. A genuinely good guy who has found his niche.

layne is the MAN...ALL NATURAL AS WELL---did you see his recent squat at the arnold?

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm a bit surprised Procise is going to get snaps at RB. He's certainly a great athlete, but I expected Carlisle to get snaps there again before Procise. Then again, I wondered if Carlisle would even be invited back for his last year given that Procise saw more passes his way at Slot and Hunter is back there needing snaps as well.

 

[NDPhilly]

Layne Norton Pubs

A "friend" of mine received his PhD in nutritional biochemistry, his thesis revolved around skeletal muscle gain, which is very applicable to the discussion. I've posted a general search for his publications on Pubmed but I'm sure you can find much more info if you do some digging.

And lest ye think he's a desk warrior, here's his personal site: Biolayne | Official Website of Layne Norton

He truly is an animal in the weight room, sometimes overly theatrical but it's how he trains. A genuinely good guy who has found his niche.

LANE NORTON FTW

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

layne is the MAN...ALL NATURAL AS WELL---did you see his recent squat at the arnold?

No I didn't, I've been detached from that industry for a long time. I used to try and maintain more muscle on my frame but I've finally acquiesced to simply trying to minimize fat gain and maintain enough functional muscle.

Layne really is a great guy. I went to high school with him and he was always an even-keeled guy.

I don't think we are necessarily disagreeing. I argued that the public at large is capable of adding lean mass - muscle, without adding appreciable fat but it takes dedication and time. Whereas our players have a limited window, they are necessarily bulking up as rapidly as possible before practices begin.

I just get a tiny bit annoyed at having to hear guys talk about how they are "bulking", ha ha. Bulking for the average person, who is not a bodybuilder, means they don't feel like watching their diet strictly.

 

[NDPhilly]

Layne Norton Pubs

A "friend" of mine received his PhD in nutritional biochemistry, his thesis revolved around skeletal muscle gain, which is very applicable to the discussion. I've posted a general search for his publications on Pubmed but I'm sure you can find much more info if you do some digging.

And lest ye think he's a desk warrior, here's his personal site: Biolayne | Official Website of Layne Norton

He truly is an animal in the weight room, sometimes overly theatrical but it's how he trains. A genuinely good guy who has found his niche.

Off topic but the fact that you are friends with Layne Norton is blowin my mind right now. I've been doin his PHAT routine for the last two months and its easily the most I gained in a two month span.

 

[NDPhilly]

Very true, sometimes I overlook the very real possibility that some simply don't know any better.



Ha ha, we aren't real close as we haven't talked in at last a couple years. The last time I saw him, we worked out together and had some mexican food. He made me front squat and I f&*%ing hate front squatting. But you don't want to appear mentally weak in front of Layne, ha ha, so I did it. Can't remember the numbers but it was a personal best at the time. I don't know what PHAT is? Physically hard ass training?

Mega Feature: Layne Norton Training Series + Full Power/Hypertrophy Routine (Updated 2011) | SimplyShredded.com

 

[Crazy Balki]

It sounds like he added a few too many lbs. and they might need to trim that a little. They want to see how he moves at this weight.

IIRC, wasn't he 255 as a freshman? So he gained 1 pound and they're worried about bad weight? Yeah I don't see it either, I think it's more about sculpting his technique, since he's probably still quite raw.

 

[PANDFAN]

not specific to you..just pointing it was about sculpting body

not specific to you..just pointing it was about sculpting body

IIRC, wasn't he 255 as a freshman? So he gained 1 pound and they're worried about bad weight? Yeah I don't see it either, I think it's more about sculpting his technique, since he's probably still quite raw.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BK: Wants to see how Jhonny Williams handles added weight. Up to over 255 pounds</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/577872443638833152">March 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Bonner behind Rochell at DE ("Big End" per BK) this spring. Jhonny Williams up to 256. "He's put on a lot of weight. have to sculpt him up."</p>— Tim O'Malley (@timomalleyND) <a href="https://twitter.com/timomalleyND/status/577872483107241986">March 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Berrien Springs alum Jhonny Williams has bulked up weight wise. Now have to try & 'sculpt' the body back.</p>— Angelo Di Carlo (@angdicarlowndu) <a href="https://twitter.com/angdicarlowndu/status/577872646680940545">March 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[Veritate Duce Progredi]

IIRC, wasn't he 255 as a freshman? So he gained 1 pound and they're worried about bad weight? Yeah I don't see it either, I think it's more about sculpting his technique, since he's probably still quite raw.

Since when has Coach Kelly (or anyone) ever used the terminology, "sculpt technique"?

 

[Crazy Balki]

Since when has Coach Kelly (or anyone) ever used the terminology, "sculpt technique"?

"Sculpting" isn't really a term I've heard him use in ANY context. Upon research, he was actually 252 as a freshman, but still 4 pounds over a year seems a bit paranoid, unless he gradually lost it over the season.

 

[Luckylucci]

IIRC, wasn't he 255 as a freshman? So he gained 1 pound and they're worried about bad weight? Yeah I don't see it either, I think it's more about sculpting his technique, since he's probably still quite raw.

Below are Kelly's words directly from the transcript that ND provided post presser.

Jhonny Williams, he's put on a lot of weight. I think we weighed him in this morning at 256. He's probably a little heavy right now. He's put on a lot of weight. We got to probably sculpt him up a little bit. This is like a first run through for him. We need to see how he handles that weight through the process.


Considering he uses the word weight 3 times when talking about Jhonny, I'll assume he means his weight.