2013 Spring Practice Thread

[Andy in Sactown]

Experience != Talent.

The backfield will be good without Redfield, but he ceiling is basically up to the moon. The faster his learning curve is, the more likely it is for him to start by week 12.

I tend to think of Redfield's situation as being analogous to Keivarae Russell's last year. The distinction being there is more depth at safety this year than the corner position last year and his ceiling may be slightly higher.

As a coaching staff, do we incorporate him into special teams immediately, counting on acclimating/developing into a playing position at safety before the year has progressed far enough to have serious red-shirt conversations?

I'd imagine these questions will answer themselves in August, but I am interested in what you fine people think.. for my money he plays. And plays sooner than later.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I tend to think of Redfield's situation as being analogous to Keivarae Russell's last year. The distinction being there is more depth at safety this year than the corner position last year and his ceiling may be slightly higher.

As a coaching staff, do we incorporate him into special teams immediately, counting on acclimating/developing into a playing position at safety before the year has progressed far enough to have serious red-shirt conversations?

I'd imagine these questions will answer themselves in August, but I am interested in what you fine people think.. for my money he plays. And plays sooner than later.

You can't really compare the two. Russell was originally going to play on offense, but injuries at CB forced him to switch sides. Not only that, but Redfield is MUCH more athletic. 6'3 205 pounds compared to 5'11 180. Not only is Redfield a natural safety, but he is on another level athlete wise than Russell. I like Farley, Collinsworth and Baratti, but none of them are nearly as athletic as Redfield.

 

[dublinirish]

i see Redfield this year having a season much like Schumate's in 2012. Starter on ST units and will see some action in nickel or dime and in mop up duty.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

I think Redfield will move to the WR position.

 

[rocket66]

I think Redfield will move to the WR position.

I've thought a lot about this lately. His films are just as impressive or even better at WR than safety. Good problem to have!

 

[PANDFAN]

There was a big rumor that Welch was going to be the #2 TE last year before he got hurt, despite everyone wanting to see Niklas and Potential.

that wasn't rumor...that was what was going to happen...BK even says he has maybe the best hands on the team..but last year before he got hurt he had solidified himself as #2

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I have no idea what will happen with Redfield.

I like the idea of him playing offense. It is a locker cleaning out kind of concept isn't it?

I know this, all things being equal, guys like Onwualu and Robinson would have gotten significant playing time in the past coming into camp as they have. This year we will see.

Look through this team position group by position group. What you are seeing is a situation where there are a whole bunch of guys ready to play. My question is whether Kelly is going to accommodate that, or not. Is he going to wear teams down with numbers and looks this year?

 

[GoIrish41]

I think Redfield will move to the WR position.

I don't see it. Kelly built this team around a great defense, and when he has those defensive pieces in place he is unlikely to shift them to offense. We're fine at WR. A little thin depth wise, but fine. IMHO, you don't move a potential all-american safety (not this year but maybe within the next couple of years) to WR just to provide depth for one season.

 

[koonja]

I really hope Redfield stays at safety. I haven't seen an elite safety in my lifetime at ND. Bruton, Zbikowski and Harrison Smith were really good, but Redfield has a chance to be much better than all of them.

 

[Walter White]

I really hope Redfield stays at safety. I haven't seen an elite safety in my lifetime at ND. Bruton, Zbikowski and Harrison Smith were really good, but Redfield has a chance to be much better than all of them.

How do you define elite? Smith was the second best safety in the country his senior year and comparably athletic to Redfield .

 

[PANDFAN]

How do you define elite? Smith was the second best safety in the country his senior year and comparably athletic to Redfield .

 

[koonja]

How do you define elite? Smith was the second best safety in the country his senior year and comparably athletic to Redfield .

JK. But Redfield, by all reports and my amateur video-scouting is noticeably more athletic than Harrison. Primarily, change of direction and speed.

 

[Grahambo]

First: Redfield is way more athletic then Smith. Redfield can possibly become an All-American at WR and S. To me, that's elite athleticism.

Second: I think Redfield is best suited for the secondary. I think ND needs him back at S more then they need him at WR.

 

[LoveThee]

This is a really interesting question to me.

Off the top of my head, at WR we have... Prosise, Brown, Daniels, Jones, Onwualu, Smith, and Robinson.

Who knows how much Onwualu and Robinson can produce this year, right away anyway. We might also be adding Fuller and Kinlaw here when they get on campus. They will do well, but I wouldn't say they're loaded. Who knows.

Off the top of my head at S we have... Collinsworth, Shumate, Badger, Baratti, Farley, Hardy, and John Turner

Who knows if Badger, Hardy and Turner will ever contribute. Collinsworth was slated to have a big year before his injury, Baratti has potential, Farley was solid last year and I think we all expect Shumate to have a big year.

Obviously we can't base his positioning off the depth chart, as anything could happen. I think he would overtake people on the depth chart at either as he is really talented, but it depends on how he does in camp. I know its not likely, but I'd like if he cross trained at WR and Safety and then we see where he fits best

 

[UmphreakDomer]

This is a really interesting question to me.

Off the top of my head, at WR we have... Prosise, Brown, Daniels, Jones, Onwualu, Smith, and Robinson. *

Who knows how much Onwualu and Robinson can produce this year, right away anyway. We might also be adding Fuller and Kinlaw here when they get on campus. They will do well, but I wouldn't say they're loaded. Who knows.

Off the top of my head at S we have... Collinsworth, Shumate, Badger, Baratti, Farley, Hardy, and John Turner

Who knows if Badger, Hardy and Turner will ever contribute. Collinsworth was slated to have a big year before his injury, Baratti has potential, Farley was solid last year and I think we all expect Shumate to have a big year.

Obviously we can't base his positioning off the depth chart, as anything could happen. I think he would overtake people on the depth chart at either as he is really talented, but it depends on how he does in camp. I know its not likely, but I'd like if he cross trained at WR and Safety and then we see where he fits best

a little false and a tad misleading, only because you seem to be stuck on "positions".
you have to lump all of the RB's in this list, as all of them get time in the slot in practice. now, depending on their practice numbers will stipulate as to if they see the field on game day. you also must include the TE's in this group, because at any given time you could have 2:1 RB, 2:1 TE, or 2:1 WR, in any combination.
*you also forgot massa
having said that-Redfield stays at safety and challenges. could he PR? will be in the two deep, barring injury, by mid season. and will be in dime and switching off between lo wood in the nickel.
just my opinion. he will play and he's better, coming in (talent-wise/measurables) than probably 3 of your listed S's.
how does he take classes and coaching. those are probably his biggest hurdles coming in. as they are will frosh.

 

[LoveThee]

a little false and a tad misleading, only because you seem to be stuck on "positions".
you have to lump all of the RB's in this list, as all of them get time in the slot in practice. now, depending on their practice numbers will stipulate as to if they see the field on game day. you also must include the TE's in this group, because at any given time you could have 2:1 RB, 2:1 TE, or 2:1 WR, in any combination.
*you also forgot massa
having said that-Redfield stays at safety and challenges. could he PR? will be in the two deep, barring injury, by mid season. and will be in dime and switching off between lo wood in the nickel.
just my opinion. he will play and he's better, coming in (talent-wise/measurables) than probably 3 of your listed S's.
how does he take classes and coaching. those are probably his biggest hurdles coming in. as they are will frosh.

It was just off the top of my head, but thanks for getting more technical about it, good analysis!

 

[bigedefense]

My wife always make my Chiuahua go with her during games because my 'yelling' upsets her ( the dog . . . And wife). The terriers get to hang because they understand.

HAHAHA! I'm glad I'm not the only one that causes everyone to leave during games. My wife and daughter will be long gone well before the first quarter is gone. Only bad part is, they try their best to melt the debit card shopping while I am yelling/'tv coaching' at the tv. HAHAHA Reps your way for mentioning your family and the adjustments they make for ND games.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

I also read that Marquise Lee and Nelson Agoholor were better suited for the secondary.

The loss of Justin Ferguson has not been replaced yet and Redfield would be a perfect fit. The safety position has a lot of future with Farley, Shumate and Baratti plus Hardy, Turner, Badger.. a lot of depth.

 

[PANDFAN]

I also read that Marquise Lee and Nelson Agoholor were better suited for the secondary.

The loss of Justin Ferguson has not been replaced yet and Redfield would be a perfect fit. The safety position has a lot of future with Farley, Shumate and Baratti plus Hardy, Turner, Badger.. a lot of depth.

what is your signature supposed to be???

 

[EuropeanDomer]

what is your signature supposed to be???

Alexei Cherepanov, a hockey player who died at 19.

 

[koonja]

Alexei Cherepanov, a hockey player who died at 19.

RIP Alexei, but it's kind of creepy.

 

[PANDFAN]

Alexei Cherepanov, a hockey player who died at 19.

thank you!

RIP Alexei, but it's kind of creepy.

yeah i always look at it thinking i am missing the point...but i thought it was like a 90's actor from melrose place or something

 

[Walter White]

First: Redfield is way more athletic then Smith. Redfield can possibly become an All-American at WR and S. To me, that's elite athleticism.

Second: I think Redfield is best suited for the secondary. I think ND needs him back at S more then they need him at WR.

Yes, my post may have had an inaccuracy at the end...you got me .

I will say though it takes much more than just elite athletic ability to become an All-American though especially at safety. David Burton comes to mind as a guy with all the athletic ability in the world (speed, agility, hops, etc) but it took him a while to figure out the position and gain the right instincts. Smith, on the other hand, while maybe a slightly lesser athlete, had incredibly instincts, technique, coverage, and a nasty mean streak. He was in consideration for defensive rookie of the year last year and is easily in the top half of all starting safeties in the NFL.

His ceiling is incredibly high and I would love to see him develop a little quicker than both Smith and Burton did in their respective careers but I am not sure how likely we will see him start this year.

I doubt he ever starts for us this year mainly because Diaco needs the safeties to quarterback the whole defense and check alignments. That is a lot to ask a freshman coming in this fall along with trying to get physically ready with Longo. I do think he will be an awesome ST player this year maybe blocking a punt or two.

 

[Grahambo]

Alexei Cherepanov, a hockey player who died at 19.

As a NYR fan, that was one of the saddest days as a sports fan that I can remember.

 

[Old Man Mike]

While you fellows are speculating on how to get Max Redfield on the field, it might be relevant to note that the defense basically picks a positional player and sticks with him all game and all season [barring injury] --- I'm referring to DBacks here. The only alteration of this is mop-up time or nickel or dime. So, with Russell and Jackson holding two spots, and Lo Wood contending for a Nickel, and with Farley returning, and Shumate, Baratti, and Collingsworth wanting time [and it's not really straightforwardly honest to say that those three do not have significant experience], the DBackfield is pretty crowded with studs who can play. This is not to preclude Redfield from passing everyone up, but we shouldn't think that this is in any way an obvious "snap".

Conversely Kelly has a completely different philosophy as to receivers. He is willing to stick with a standard line-up if those guys are the ones who are really producing [ex. Daniels, TJJones, two TEs or one TE and Prosise or Onwualu], but in most games he likes to sub in a lot of different receivers. Some of that is situational but some of it seems like he just wants to get fresh legs and bodies and different types of receivers that the opponents aren't ready for on the field. Kelly likes using 6+ more-or-less traditional WRs in his offense [thus, Toma, Smith, Goodman, Brown et al].

Opportunity would seem to be broader for Redfield {or anyone} at Receiver for playing time than at DBack just now. Plus, Receiver may be easier to "fit into" with only August practice, than the Diaco D-scheme.

I have no idea whether Redfield's great talent will get him on the field in regular downs and have no dog in the race. All I know is that no one is a fool for arguing one of the many positions that I'm reading [including the redshirt one].

 

[Irish YJ]

I agree with OMM and WW, but I also think we may be overestimating the existing DB talent level a bit. IMO our front 7 were a large component of the success of our young secondary last year. Certainly not saying Max starts day one, but I think his chances of playing meaningful minutes this year could be higher than most think.

 

[koonja]

I agree with OMM and WW, but I also think we may be overestimating the existing DB talent level a bit. IMO our front 7 were a large component of the success of our young secondary last year. Certainly not saying Max starts day one, but I think his chances of playing meaningful minutes this year could be higher than most think.

I'm not buying stock in Badger, Collinsworth, or Baratti. Of course, Baratti allegedly runs a 4.45 laser time at 215+, which would probably make him the most coveted safety in this year's draft based on measurables, but I would not be surprised at all if by season's end, Redfield is in the game more than all of those I listed, and maybe even Farley. Farley is a competitor, but not exactly a play maker.

 

[LoveThee]

I'm not buying stock in Badger, Collinsworth, or Baratti. Of course, Baratti allegedly runs a 4.45 laser time at 215+, which would probably make him the most coveted safety in this year's draft based on measurables, but I would not be surprised at all if by season's end, Redfield is in the game more than all of those I listed, and maybe even Farley. Farley is a competitor, but not exactly a play maker.

Why not Collinsworth or Baratti? Baratti made a few clutch plays last year and looked promising and Collinsworth was slotted to start before his injury.

 

[ScooterIrish]

I'm not buying stock in Badger, Collinsworth, or Baratti. Of course, Baratti allegedly runs a 4.45 laser time at 215+, which would probably make him the most coveted safety in this year's draft based on measurables, but I would not be surprised at all if by season's end, Redfield is in the game more than all of those I listed, and maybe even Farley. Farley is a competitor, but not exactly a play maker.

Baratti did have a nice interception in the Michigan game..

I don't know what to think about Farley yet. He showed flashes good and bad. Of course he was a new guy in the backfield, switching from WR. Hard to judge a guy like that.

 

[koonja]

Why not Collinsworth or Baratti? Baratti made a few clutch plays last year and looked promising and Collinsworth was slotted to start before his injury.

Collinsworth because he's a senior and he's never really played meaningful minutes. Why would we expect him to A) Stay healthy and B) Be an impact player enough to pass Farley or Shummate who were playing last year?

Baratti will be good, IMO. Not great. Baratti made a few plays this year (honestly, a few is being generous). I think Redfield will be making a much bigger impact than Baratti did last year. I also do not buy Baratti's 4.45 laser 40-yard dash at all. I'd bet my alleged son that that's not an accurate time.