'20 NE WR Xavier Watts (Notre Dame Man)

ndfanatic78

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Im not comparing injuries. Kyle protected himself. Thats it. I will never blame him for prtecting his future.
Then why does/should any player keep playing at all after they make a name for themselves. If you don't want to blame him for his decision or hold it against him fine, but when a guy does continue to put it on the line for the university and his team shouldn't he get the higher accolades?
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Then why does/should any player keep playing at all after they make a name for themselves. If you don't want to blame him for his decision or hold it against him fine, but when a guy does continue to put it on the line for the university and his team shouldn't he get the higher accolades?
Give him all the praise you deem fit or dont. Zibby is a cult hero but he wasnt ever gonna be a NFL player. The complain isnt that Kyle was a model student athlete ( which he was), its that he quit, but he did so to ENSURE his future earnings in his professional career were protected and his valuation as a NFL player was maintained or improved. People who think this is disloyal is something I'll never understand, but its common for fans to degrade/devalue college football players for protecting their future because of some "loyalty" test to the school. When in any other scenario, protecting one's future wealth is ALWAYS a smart move. He met his obligations and I'd be surpised to learn anyone in that locker room held it against him knowing he had generational wealth waiting on him six months pending damage to his physical body awhich amounts to his most valuable asset.
 
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JD Irish

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Give him all the praise you deem fit or dont. Zibby is a cult hero but he wasnt ever gonna be a NFL player. The complain isnt that Kyle was a model student athlete ( which he was), its that he quit, but he did so to ENSURE his future earnings in his professional career were protected and his valuation as a NFL player was maintained or improved. People who think this is disloyal is something I'll never understand, but its common for fans to degrade/devalue college football players for protecting their future because of some "loyalty" test to the school. When in any other scenario, protecting one's future wealth is ALWAYS a smart move. He met his obligations and I'd be surpised to learn anyone in that locker room held it against him knowing he had generational wealth waiting on him six months pending damage to his physical body awhich amounts to his most valuable asset.
Why does it have to be one or the other? He did probably make the best decision for himself financially. That does not mean he needs to be celebrated for it by fans who are fans of ND first. He made a business decision to stop playing for ND after 2.5 years. It is absolutely rational for ND fans to appreciate the loyalty of players like Watts, Cross, Kiser, Mills, etc. who give more of themselves to ND.
 

IA4irish

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Give him all the praise you deem fit or dont. Zibby is a cult hero but he wasnt ever gonna be a NFL player. The complain isnt that Kyle was a model student athlete ( which he was), its that he quit, but he did so to ENSURE his future earnings in his professional career were protected and his valuation as a NFL player was maintained or improved. People who think this is disloyal is something I'll never understand, but its common for fans to degrade/devalue college football players for protecting their future because of some "loyalty" test to the school. When in any other scenario, protecting one's future wealth is ALWAYS a smart move. He met his obligations and I'd be surpised to learn anyone in that locker room held it against him knowing he had generational wealth waiting on him six months pending damage to his physical body awhich amounts to his most valuable asset.
Honestly, I’m more upset with Hamilton about how he was with Xavier Nwankpa on his recruiting visit. I have no problem with him sitting out. Dude was a lock top 15 pick
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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The vast majority of people in society are going to put their own interests and preservation first before anything else. When athletes do it for whatever reason it ruffles people wrong compared to just about every other segment of the population. I'll never understand it, and I am not going to assume why it is the case. Multiple theories abound, no doubt.

Recruits don't have the loyalty and love to Notre Dame that we do as fans. Even some of the players who actually attend the university and play for the program don't see it through the lens that we do. Every single one of us here probably would have done anything to be at ND and or play ball at ND.

These scholarships are all means to an end for both parties involved. The athletes should be doing a better job of getting their end of the bargain now more than ever with NIL. Collect some money, get the degree and move on to whatever the next step is. If that's pro ball, even better.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Why does it have to be one or the other? He did probably make the best decision for himself financially. That does not mean he needs to be celebrated for it by fans who are fans of ND first. He made a business decision to stop playing for ND after 2.5 years. It is absolutely rational for ND fans to appreciate the loyalty of players like Watts, Cross, Kiser, Mills, etc. who give more of themselves to ND.
Is Joe Schmidt a Loyal Son? Ian Book?
 
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arrowryan

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Give him all the praise you deem fit or dont. Zibby is a cult hero but he wasnt ever gonna be a NFL player. The complain isnt that Kyle was a model student athlete ( which he was), its that he quit, but he did so to ENSURE his future earnings in his professional career were protected and his valuation as a NFL player was maintained or improved. People who think this is disloyal is something I'll never understand, but its common for fans to degrade/devalue college football players for protecting their future because of some "loyalty" test to the school. When in any other scenario, protecting one's future wealth is ALWAYS a smart move. He met his obligations and I'd be surpised to learn anyone in that locker room held it against him knowing he had generational wealth waiting on him six months pending damage to his physical body awhich amounts to his most valuable asset.

So would you say someone like Shedeur Sander isn’t making a wise decision by playing for Colorado?
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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And why?! Because he's not a Notre Dame man! Notre Dame men, ya hurt Kyle Hamilton, you're going to be Notre Dame Bums, the lot of ya. And Zibby, Hayseed, Burris, wherever you are out there, FUCK YOU, too!
 

Irish#1

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Give him all the praise you deem fit or dont. Zibby is a cult hero but he wasnt ever gonna be a NFL player. The complain isnt that Kyle was a model student athlete ( which he was), its that he quit, but he did so to ENSURE his future earnings in his professional career were protected and his valuation as a NFL player was maintained or improved. People who think this is disloyal is something I'll never understand, but its common for fans to degrade/devalue college football players for protecting their future because of some "loyalty" test to the school. When in any other scenario, protecting one's future wealth is ALWAYS a smart move. He met his obligations and I'd be surpised to learn anyone in that locker room held it against him knowing he had generational wealth waiting on him six months pending damage to his physical body awhich amounts to his most valuable asset.
Interesting comment. What was his obligation?
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Interesting comment. What was his obligation?
You know what I mean. He was a good student. Didn't get into trouble. Represented ND very well. He did what he was supposed to do and left the school in good standing. He can come back anytime he wants.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Book is the all time winningest QB. He also did the silence gesture while playing at home, when the whole fan base turned against him.
Point is Joe Schmidt gave as much to the program as anyone else being mentioned herein and yet the "fans" couldn't wait for him to go. So clearly being loyal to the school and staying as long as one can isnt the defining characteristic of a "Loyal Son."
 

arrowryan

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Point is Joe Schmidt gave as much to the program as anyone else being mentioned herein and yet the "fans" couldn't wait for him to go. So clearly being loyal to the school and staying as long as one can isnt the defining characteristic of a "Loyal Son."

Joe Schmidt was a nice story and probably maxed out his potential for sure
 

Irish du Nord

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Point is Joe Schmidt gave as much to the program as anyone else being mentioned herein and yet the "fans" couldn't wait for him to go. So clearly being loyal to the school and staying as long as one can isnt the defining characteristic of a "Loyal Son."
Joe Kuharich was a loyal son, it was the “onward to victory” that was lacking. I’d cheer for them all though, at the end of the day.
 

greyhammer90

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Point is Joe Schmidt gave as much to the program as anyone else being mentioned herein and yet the "fans" couldn't wait for him to go. So clearly being loyal to the school and staying as long as one can isnt the defining characteristic of a "Loyal Son."

Joe Schmidt gave his all for the university but he certainly wasn't an all-time great, and wasn't loved by the fanbase. That's probably more due to bad luck playing on a shit unit than anything else.
 

ndfanatic78

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You know what I mean. He was a good student. Didn't get into trouble. Represented ND very well. He did what he was supposed to do and left the school in good standing. He can come back anytime he wants.
But no one here is arguing that in any way. All these guys should be welcomed back. No one is saying they shouldn't but as a fan base we are definitely going to honor those that excelled and in our eyes gave more than others even if they were better.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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But no one here is arguing that in any way. All these guys should be welcomed back. No one is saying they shouldn't but as a fan base we are definitely going to honor those that excelled and in our eyes gave more than others even if they were better.
This post was in direct response to Irish#1s question about "obligations". I didnt say anyone was arguing that in any way.

Im going to leave it here. I do not fault Kyle for leaving early to preserve his body, draft stock and overall future assets and wealth.
 

Irish#1

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You know what I mean. He was a good student. Didn't get into trouble. Represented ND very well. He did what he was supposed to do and left the school in good standing. He can come back anytime he wants.
Sorry but I didn't know which is why I asked. When you said obligations, I was thinking in terms of football, which is why he came here in the first place.
 

ulukinatme

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Im not comparing injuries. Kyle protected himself. Thats it. I will never blame him for prtecting his future.
And no one is saying he was wrong for doing that.

If we're talking about the "Notre Dame Man/Loyal Son" title, it generally goes towards a player that went above and beyond for the university, or someone that had to clear obstacles or faced struggles that normal players did not. In cases like Avery Davis and Xavier Watts, they're players that clearly could have transferred out of the program and gone somewhere where they would see playing time at the positions they were recruited for. Instead hung around, were asked to changed positions (sometimes multiple times) and then helped the team to succeed. Team first mentality, hence Notre Dame Man. Theo was in that same vein I think and that's why he got it.

Looking at some other past players that got the title, for Jaylon he could have shut it down, but obviously played in the bowl game for the team and paid for it. Manti is self explanatory I think. I'm not sure with Zach Martin, because he stuck around another year and gave it all? Rees faced adversity from fans, getting death threats and probably some undue criticism that should have been directed towards the players that failed to live up to their potential to beat him out. Danny Spond had to shut down his career early because of health issues, but stuck around to help coach his replacements. Big Lou self explanatory too I think. Tranquil obviously came back from multiple major injuries to help the team and make his mark. I don't remember the stories on Sheldon Day and Chris Brown other than they were good guys that represented the university well? There haven't been too many players to get the moniker in recent years, just X and AD which were already discussed.

I'd consider adding Tyler Buchner to the list. Yeah, he left (understandably so), but the way he's come back and has done whatever has been asked of him to help the team without getting anything in return...pretty special. Howard Cross could be another maybe for coming back when he could have left. I would nominate Alohi Gilman too. Not only was he forced to sit out a year after transferring (In an era where everybody and their grandmother was getting exemptions to play right away), but he also received hate mail and anger from veterans and Navy fans for transferring.
 

ulukinatme

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Is Joe Schmidt a Loyal Son? Ian Book?
Not going to speak for anyone else, but I would add both of these gentlemen. Pretty sure Joe received death threats from fans, and Book probably did too (I don't remember honestly). Both were criticized for giving their all and playing above their "star" rating when higher recruited guys failed to step up to the plate. Despite the disrespect and negative energy, they kept playing for our team and giving their all.
 

Jimmy3Putt

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Not going to speak for anyone else, but I would add both of these gentlemen. Pretty sure Joe received death threats from fans, and Book probably did too (I don't remember honestly). Both were criticized for giving their all and playing above their "star" rating when higher recruited guys failed to step up to the plate. Despite the disrespect and negative energy, they kept playing for our team and giving their all.


I already apologized for the death threats...

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