'19 MI ATH Julian Barnett (MSU Verbal)

[NDIrish88]

I don't think we should be turning away talent, especially local talent. Truthfully, this class is incredibly average. Not a lot of reaches or bad prospects but most of the guys being recruited as the elite athletes on par with what Bama and Georgia bring in.

Especially at WR, there is a dearth of proven playmakers on the roster right now.

I get why they would turn him away . . . now. If he would have reached out two months ago before other guys committed then they should entertain it.

Kind of odd but the defensive positions he would play, I think ND has good guys in place. At WR I think if they did not take Cornelius Johnson then nobody was getting in. . . .

 

[arrowryan]

I agree with this. I have a bad feeling we're going to realize the talent gap come December 29th and hopefully the game after that.

I know we always think we're recruiting at a high level because we kind of only pay attention to our class, but there's a level above ours and we're about to feel it IMO.

I don't think we felt it against LSU x2, Georgia, Clemson, FSU, or USC. Yes, I know, FSU and USC are dumpster fires when looking at the big picture. But they often get better recruiting classes than ND and have athletes everywhere.

LSU, the scoreboard speaks for itself.

Georgia, I know we didn't win that game but I don't think we were anywhere near outmatched.

2015 Clemson as well. We didn't lose these games because they were bigger, faster, stronger.

Does this mean anything for the game against Clemson later this month? Hell no, but I don't necessarily agree with the narrative that Notre Dame doesn't get the same guys as Clemson, Bama, etc..

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think we should be turning away talent, especially local talent. Truthfully, this class is incredibly average. Not a lot of reaches or bad prospects but most of the guys being recruited as the elite athletes on par with what Bama and Georgia bring in.

Especially at WR, there is a dearth of proven playmakers on the roster right now.

Not sure I’d use average as an adjective to describe this class. It might lack top heavy talent like UM’s, for example, but we have 15 4 stars compared to their 11. They just have 1 5 star and another close to it. Plus 3 more commits. If we sign Foskey we hit on all 3 levels of the defense in a major way. Hit big time at OL. Offensive skill recruiting is a little underwhelming from a stars perspective. I think KAR, Clark, and Williams are all good prospects. And numbers are low because of last years class.

Which leads to the second point, isn’t it extremely common for there to be a lack of proven playmakers on the depth chart? How would they prove themselves without playing time? It’s pretty hard to have 4+ proven producers as pass catchers, just not that many balls to go around. There are certainly talented prospects, though. They just need there shot and more time.

Not sure why the arrow is at the top of the post?

 

[NDohio]

I don't think we felt it against LSU x2, Georgia, Clemson, FSU, or USC. Yes, I know, FSU and USC are dumpster fires when looking at the big picture. But they often get better recruiting classes than ND and have athletes everywhere.

LSU, the scoreboard speaks for itself.

Georgia, I know we didn't win that game but I don't think we were anywhere near outmatched.

2015 Clemson as well. We didn't lose these games because they were bigger, faster, stronger.

Does this mean anything for the game against Clemson later this month? Hell no, but I don't necessarily agree with the narrative that Notre Dame doesn't get the same guys as Clemson, Bama, etc..

Agree.


Just for clarity through facts...


https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...llege-football-recruiting-rankings-2018-class


Team 2018 pctile 2018 Rk 5-year 5yr Rk 2-year 2yr Rk
Georgia 99.7% 1 97.8% 3 99.4% 2
Ohio State 99.6% 2 98.7% 2 99.6% 1
USC 98.8% 3 97.5% 5 98.7% 3
Texas 98.3% 4 91.1% 14 88.3% 16
Penn State 97.8% 5 89.8% 16 94.8% 8
Clemson 97.0% 6 94.0% 9 92.3% 12
Alabama 97.0% 7 99.0% 1 98.4% 4
Miami-FL 97.0% 8 89.1% 17 94.6% 9
Oklahoma 96.1% 9 92.7% 11 96.4% 6
Florida St 95.1% 10 97.8% 4 96.8% 5
ND 94.5% 11 94.1% 8 93.4% 10

 

[koonja]

When it comes to simply counting 4-stars, I always am skeptical when we're comparing to other teams.

Disclaimer - I haven't ran the numbers, but it seems like the majority of our "4 star players" are borderline 4 stars, like .89 through .91 for what feels like 90% of them. If we get a ~.95 rated 4-star, we act like he's the crown jewel of the class (often he is).

Whereas Georgia/OSU/Michigan will get a "4 star player" who's ~.95 far more often that we do. Again, no idea if that's the case, but it sure seems like it.

 

[arrowryan]

When it comes to simply counting 4-stars, I always am skeptical when we're comparing to other teams.

Disclaimer - I haven't ran the numbers, but it seems like the majority of our "4 star players" are borderline 4 stars, like .89 through .91 for what feels like 90% of them. If we get a ~.95 rated 4-star, we act like he's the crown jewel of the class (often he is).

Whereas Georgia/OSU/Michigan will get a "4 star player" who's ~.95 far more often that we do. Again, no idea if that's the case, but it sure seems like it.

I know its a small sample size, but Notre Dame has/had 12 combined commits in 2018/19 with a composite ranking of 93 or higher. Do other schools get more? Probably, but that's been proven to be a pretty useless fact as Notre Dame beat LSU twice, basically dominated Michigan, and had a game winning drive get stopped short against UGA. All 3 schools are considered to in a different tier than ND, recruiting wise.

I know I'm in the minority, but my opinion on this is basically based around the fact that I just don't get excited about star power. Just basing recruiting success off rankings is shallow minded and lazy IMO. Notre Dame has shown multiple times against good opponents that star power doesn't always mean victories.

 

[koonja]

I know its a small sample size, but Notre Dame has/had 12 combined commits in 2018/19 with a composite ranking of 93 or higher. Do other schools get more? Probably, but that's been proven to be a pretty useless fact as Notre Dame beat LSU twice, basically dominated Michigan, and had a game winning drive get stopped short against UGA. All 3 schools are considered to in a different tier than ND, recruiting wise.

I know I'm in the minority, but my opinion on this is basically based around the fact that I just don't get excited about star power. Just basing recruiting success off rankings is shallow minded and lazy IMO. Notre Dame has shown multiple times against good opponents that star power doesn't always mean victories.

Yeah, I mean what you say is 100% true. It's not the end all be all, but it's like having Monday. It doesn't guarantee happiness, but it sure does help.

If that makes any sense.

 

[OhioIrish31]

We just need out 4 Stars to stay for their senior years...we don't get enough of them to handle early departures, transfer, injuries.

 

[arrowryan]

Yeah, I mean what you say is 100% true. It's not the end all be all, but it's like having Monday. It doesn't guarantee happiness, but it sure does help.

If that makes any sense.

I agree. Would we like to have a class that has multiple 5 stars? Hell yeah. But I've come to the realization that it just won't happen at Notre Dame. Academic workload, geography, harsh winters, and other things are obvious contributions why NFL minded recruits don't give Notre Dame a hard look. So I guess the Jaylon Smiths of the world don't grow on trees.

As long as the staff gets the guys that are at the top, or near the top, of their board then I am happy. I feel like they have done that the last couple cycles.

 

[NDohio]

I know its a small sample size, but Notre Dame has/had 12 combined commits in 2018/19 with a composite ranking of 93 or higher. Do other schools get more? Probably, but that's been proven to be a pretty useless fact as Notre Dame beat LSU twice, basically dominated Michigan, and had a game winning drive get stopped short against UGA. All 3 schools are considered to in a different tier than ND, recruiting wise.

I know I'm in the minority, but my opinion on this is basically based around the fact that I just don't get excited about star power. Just basing recruiting success off rankings is shallow minded and lazy IMO. Notre Dame has shown multiple times against good opponents that star power doesn't always mean victories.

I agree with this. Also, when our four stars do this...

We just need out 4 Stars to stay for their senior years...we don't get enough of them to handle early departures, transfer, injuries.

Seniors and fifth year seniors are extremely important to the success of ND football. This year it is a key component.

 

[NDMIA]

I know its a small sample size, but Notre Dame has/had 12 combined commits in 2018/19 with a composite ranking of 93 or higher. Do other schools get more? Probably, but that's been proven to be a pretty useless fact as Notre Dame beat LSU twice, basically dominated Michigan, and had a game winning drive get stopped short against UGA. All 3 schools are considered to in a different tier than ND, recruiting wise.

I know I'm in the minority, but my opinion on this is basically based around the fact that I just don't get excited about star power. Just basing recruiting success off rankings is shallow minded and lazy IMO. Notre Dame has shown multiple times against good opponents that star power doesn't always mean victories.

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/

1) Ohio State - #6 - 12-1
2) Alabama - #1 - 13-0 - PLAYOFFS
3) Georgia - #5 - 11-2
4) USC - NR - 5-7
5) FSU - NR - 5-7
6) Clemson - #2 - 13-0 - PLAYOFFS
7) LSU - #11 - 9-3
8) Michigan - #7 - 10-2
9) Texas - #15 - 9-4
10) Notre Dame - #3 - 12-0 - PLAYOFFS
11) Oklahoma - #4 - 12-1 - PLAYOFFS

I think the recruiting numbers are slightly overrated but this graphic is pretty impressive. 9 out of 11 of the most talented “recruiting ratings” teams are either playing for the playoffs, closely missed out in November, or played in their conference championships. FSU & USC are hilariously bad for their talent, but when we played them, the one thing that analysts said for both games was, these teams are extremely talented so you never know, or these teams have NFL athletes so you don’t want to give them life. ND just needs to try and knocking it out of the park in recruiting because staying in the top 10 in team talent is difficult and requires constantly replenishing the ranks with 4 stars and some 5 stars if possible.

 

[Luckylucci]

Personally, I think the staff is recruiting just about as good as can be expected, at ND. And with the right strategy. A few points I'd make.

1. They are obviously pushing numbers, at least more than previously. This should solve one of the major problems we've had over the years which is scholarship gaps at certain position groups.

2. I also think the classes are consistently deeper with talent. We might not be signing 5 star talent, but in two classes we'll have signed 17 4 star defenders. This is where I think the staff needs to focus. The 4 star range of high quality fits so that we minimize the misses. If we continue to win, every so often there will be a 5 star or 2 that are fits but that won't be our bread and butter. And yes, some are borderline 4 stars but that leads me to the next point.

3. Do we really think that sites are properly evaluating prospects, especially those 200+? I don't and, 247 for example, has essentially admitted as much.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I agree with this. I have a bad feeling we're going to realize the talent gap come December 29th and hopefully the game after that.

I know we always think we're recruiting at a high level because we kind of only pay attention to our class, but there's a level above ours and we're about to feel it IMO.

To be fair, only OSU, Bama, Georgia, Clemson, are there (I'm probably missing a school or two). Then Michigan/USC/FSU/Auburn are right behind them.

We're a slight notch below the 2nd tier, but not very far at all. And clearly close enough to that second tier that the difference is negligible since we beat 3 of them this year.

You're close but wrong.

Composite Rankings over 2 and 5 years. Look at the 5 year rankings, then the 2

Notre Dame is clearly in the 2nd tier but wihtin striking range.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I think scheme and player development are at a high level at Notre Dame right now. You consistently get high 4 star talent, coach them hard, and develop them physically and good things will happen.

 

[BobbyMac]

Holy Hot Takes Batman!

 

[NDohio]

Agree.


Just for clarity through facts...


https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...llege-football-recruiting-rankings-2018-class


Team 2018 pctile 2018 Rk 5-year 5yr Rk 2-year 2yr Rk
Georgia 99.7% 1 97.8% 3 99.4% 2
Ohio State 99.6% 2 98.7% 2 99.6% 1
USC 98.8% 3 97.5% 5 98.7% 3
Texas 98.3% 4 91.1% 14 88.3% 16
Penn State 97.8% 5 89.8% 16 94.8% 8
Clemson 97.0% 6 94.0% 9 92.3% 12
Alabama 97.0% 7 99.0% 1 98.4% 4
Miami-FL 97.0% 8 89.1% 17 94.6% 9
Oklahoma 96.1% 9 92.7% 11 96.4% 6
Florida St 95.1% 10 97.8% 4 96.8% 5
ND 94.5% 11 94.1% 8 93.4% 10

You're close but wrong.

Composite Rankings over 2 and 5 years. Look at the 5 year rankings, then the 2

Notre Dame is clearly in the 2nd tier but wihtin striking range.

Hmmm - that article looks familiar...

 

[IrishLax]

While I agree with this, bringing in more receivers, elite or not, isn't going to fix this problem. It is just going to increase the number of unproven playmakers. The talent/skill is there, they just need to get on the field to showcase it; Boykin, Claypool, and Finke being what they are isn't helping the cause.

I just don't see us signing any Michael Floyd or Golden Tate type playmakers these days. Will Fuller was a beast but also completely under the radar.

The reason teams like Oklahoma overcome their talent deficiencies in other areas is because they have Heisman level QBs to go with NFL caliber pass catchers. Now, they lucked into both of their Heisman level QBs via transfer, but they consistently sign highly rated WRs. Same with Bama, Georgia, Ohio State, etc. Even f*cking Michigan -- who has a garbage offense -- signs tons of highly rated WRs.

Last few classes of WRs for Oklahoma --
2019: 99, 97
2018: 93, 88
2017: 94, 93, 90

Last few classes for ND --
2019: 88, 87
2018: 96, 92, 90, 89
2017: 87

So thank God for Kevin Austin? Oklahoma signed 5 players rated a 93 or better while ND signed 1. Bama/Georgia/etc. most top teams do something similar.

And RB... when you consider attrition... is equally bad. There's basically zero top talent being recruited at that position. RB/WR are starting to look like ILB and DT recruiting under Diaco. Eventually those chickens come home to roost. Can you imagine this team without Dexter Williams? Playmakers matter.

 

[BabyIrish]

I don't think we should be turning away talent, especially local talent. Truthfully, this class is incredibly average. Not a lot of reaches or bad prospects but most of the guys being recruited as the elite athletes on par with what Bama and Georgia bring in.

Especially at WR, there is a dearth of proven playmakers on the roster right now.

Kyle Hamilton and our Oline commits say hello

 

[NDIrish88]

I just don't see us signing any Michael Floyd or Golden Tate type playmakers these days. Will Fuller was a beast but also completely under the radar.

The reason teams like Oklahoma overcome their talent deficiencies in other areas is because they have Heisman level QBs to go with NFL caliber pass catchers. Now, they lucked into both of their Heisman level QBs via transfer, but they consistently sign highly rated WRs. Same with Bama, Georgia, Ohio State, etc. Even f*cking Michigan -- who has a garbage offense -- signs tons of highly rated WRs.

Last few classes of WRs for Oklahoma --
2019: 99, 97
2018: 93, 88
2017: 94, 93, 90

Last few classes for ND --
2019: 88, 87
2018: 96, 92, 90, 89
2017: 87

So thank God for Kevin Austin? Oklahoma signed 5 players rated a 93 or better while ND signed 1. Bama/Georgia/etc. most top teams do something similar.

And RB... when you consider attrition... is equally bad. There's basically zero top talent being recruited at that position. RB/WR are starting to look like ILB and DT recruiting under Diaco. Eventually those chickens come home to roost. Can you imagine this team without Dexter Williams? Playmakers matter.

When it comes to RB and WR, let's just wait and see how 2020 plays out. I think people are going to be surprised who ND snags.

 

[NDIrish88]

Entered the transfer portal

 

[ab2cmiller]

From linked article
https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2020/12/former-4-star-recruit-julian-barnett-entering-transfer-portal-is-latest-sign-of-change-at-michigan-state.html

As a true freshman last season, he began fall camp at receiver and stuck at the position while posting 13 catches for 182 yards in 13 games with two starts.

Amid the change in staff and offseason complicated by the pandemic, Barnett moved to cornerback. In the spring,

Through the first six games this season, Barnett played mostly on special teams and had three tackles, and also fumbled a kickoff return in last week’s loss against Ohio State. As part of a new 4-2-5 defense, he started at nickelback in a Nov. 7 loss at Iowa but was replaced and true freshman Angelo Grose started the last three games at that spot.

 

[T-Boone]

I would take this guy at CB.

 

[BobbyMac]

3 semesters of MSU classes will require a miracle for him to be able to transfer in.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Thank you Michigan State! Here to take the time out to say that I will be continuing my academic and athletic career at The University of Memphis!🙏🏽💙 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/gotigersgo?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#gotigersgo</a> <a href="https://t.co/6cqMHqVKnl">pic.twitter.com/6cqMHqVKnl</a></p>— Julian Barnett (@_OfficialJB1) <a href="https://twitter.com/_OfficialJB1/status/1341056098627829768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>