'19 IN LB Jack Kiser (Notre Dame Man)

[Me2SouthBend]

Diaco laughs at Lawrence's hair.

And Lawrence laughs at Diaco.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

This season ND came in with 15-12-15 as the scholarship count for their DL-LB-DB groups. In a perfect world, ND is shooting for 16-12-16. Obviously there are scholarship limitations and you probably won’t have exactly 16-12-16 because you need offensive scholarships but you get the idea. For 2019, ND has signed 16-14-17. I think one of those 14 linebackers is moving to the DL to balance out the numbers. People will leave for sure but I think if the staff takes any more players on defense it should be at DLine or at Linebacker with the intention of moving a guy or two up to DLine next season which might already be the intention. Those guys are 10 months ahead of everything we talk about anyway so I’m sure they’ve already figured out where an Ovie Oghuofo best projects and what a Jack Lamb would do best at a certain position. The only thing I can hope for is to keep getting 4 stars and overrecruiting the positions to have sufficient depth when the attrition occurs in the offseason.

Overloading at LB and DB is also constructive if you want to beef up your special teams units. Some changes are merited on how resources are allocated to special teams.

 

[ACamp1900]

lol,... the last page or so has inspired me:

"How I Learned to Stop Worrying About Recruiting and Just Live in Leprechaun Lounge... An Opus"

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Diaco laughs at Lawrence's hair.

Trevor Lawerence probably (already) makes more money than Diaco...Who's laughing now?

 

[Edge]

Kiser won the Lilly today. Interesting

I've never measured Kiser height but I can tell you a number of recruiters were shocked he was as big or bigger than listed
Believe one comment was "damn you're as big as advertised"
"Normally when listed 6'2 215 it's actually 6'0 200 we see"

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Wait, an Eli Lilly scholarship? The one that gives you a free ride anywhere in Indiana?

They trying to save money? Lol

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[zelezo vlk]

Wait, an Eli Lilly scholarship? The one that gives you a free ride anywhere in Indiana?

They trying to save money? Lol

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Yes the same Lilly.

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[BoredIrish]

I thought a Lilly schollie does not cover room and board?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I thought a Lilly schollie does not cover room and board?

It does to my knowledge. I had a friend who won one and pretty sure she didn't pay a dime (very poor family and I know she had no loans either).

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[ab2cmiller]

Lilly is tuition only plus a $900 stipend each year for books and equipment.

http://casscountyonline.com/wp_site/2018/12/cass-county-community-foundation-announces-2019-lilly-endowment-community-scholarship-recipient/

 

[GowerND11]

So what does that even mean then for Kiser and the team?

 

[Irish YJ]

So what does that even mean then for Kiser and the team?

a quick google on ND tuition and room and board gave me this...

The annual list price to attend University of Notre Dame on a full time basis for 2017/2018 is $69,395 for all students regardless of their residency. This fee is comprised of $50,998 for tuition, $14,890 room and board, $1,050 for books and supplies and $507 for other fees.

So I assume if Kiser's parents wanted to pick up around $15.5K per year, it would open up a scholarship.

Either that, or Kiser still get's both the FB and Academic scholarship, and ND saves the $50,998+$900.

 

[ab2cmiller]

So what does that even mean then for Kiser and the team?

Nobody knows for sure. Lilly doesn't cover room and board, so the Kiser's would either have to pay over 15k a year if they accept the Lilly Scholarship or they would have to get additional scholarships to cover it. That could potentially be problematic given the quote below.
http://casscountycf.org/news/201819+lilly+finalists/53

If the student selected as the recipient receives other scholarships or awards for tuition and fees, they will be required to either turn down the other awards or forfeit the Lilly and accept the other awards. At no time can the recipient receive both. If the student recipient, after being named, declines the Lilly Scholarship, it will be immediately awarded to the alternate.

It seems like there is at least a possibility that he could accept the Lilly Scholarship and free up a football scholarship. There appears to be a fair number of hurdles that would need to be cleared. I give it a 50/50 shot.

 

[GowerND11]

a quick google on ND tuition and room and board gave me this...



So I assume if Kiser's parents wanted to pick up around $15.5K per year, it would open up a scholarship.

Either that, or Kiser still get's both the FB and Academic scholarship, and ND saves the $50,998+$900.

But since he was recruited, doesn't he count towards the number anyway? I've always thought that's how the rule read, so teams can't just say, "oh this kid can afford our tuition, he's a walk-on now."

 

[ab2cmiller]

But since he was recruited, doesn't he count towards the number anyway? I've always thought that's how the rule read, so teams can't just say, "oh this kid can afford our tuition, he's a walk-on now."

There are quite a few examples of basketball players on scholarship on an NCAA team and then sacrificing that scholarship and going to being a walk on for the betterment of the team so that they can add another player and still meet the scholarship limits.

Mostly happens on basketball teams because being able to add one additional player for basketball would tend to have a lot more potential impact than adding another player for football.

 

[koonja]

I would be shocked if the parents chose to scoop up the $15,000 a year to open a scholarship for someone else. Absolutely shocked.

I'm sure it's not just the $15,000, either. I'm sure there are other benefits you get that make it easier for someone on a full football scholarship compared to someone who has tuition covered. For instance, don't all football players eat free, literally anywhere they want on campus? I'd imagine Lilly isn't picking that up.

 

[ab2cmiller]

But since he was recruited, doesn't he count towards the number anyway? I've always thought that's how the rule read, so teams can't just say, "oh this kid can afford our tuition, he's a walk-on now."

Here is part of what I posted about a week ago in the Master List 2019 thread. You can look through the earlier posts on that thread if you like.

From what I can tell, Kiser would NOT be a counter IF he doesn't receive ANY institutional aid AND IF the Lilly Scholarship would be considered allowable.

Counter Definition
15.02.3 Counter. A “counter” is an individual who is receiving institutional financial aid that is countable against the aid limitations in a sport.
15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. [FBS/FCS] An “initial counter” is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)

-------------------------------------------------------------
15.02.5.3 Other Permissible Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are also permitted: (Adopted: 1/10/95 effective 8/1/95, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Financial aid received from anyone upon whom the student-athlete is naturally or legally dependent;
(b) Financial aid awarded solely on bases having no relationship to athletics ability;
(c) Financial aid awarded through an established and continuing outside program as outlined in Bylaw 15.2.6.3; and
(d) Educational expenses awarded by the U.S. Olympic Committee, which count against an institution’s sport-by-sport financial aid limitations and against the individual’s maximum limit on financial aid.

15.2.6 Financial Aid From Outside Sources.
15.2.6.1 Family Members. A student-athlete may receive financial aid from anyone upon whom the student-athlete is naturally or legally dependent. (Revised: 4/25/18)
15.2.6.1.1 Prepaid College Tuition Plans. A state-sponsored or private prepaid college tuition plan, purchased by a family member and paid to an institution on behalf of a student-athlete, is not considered aid from an outside source. Such aid is considered financial aid from someone upon whom the student athlete is naturally or legally dependent. (Revised: 6/10/04)
15.2.6.2 No Relationship to Athletics Ability. A student-athlete may receive financial aid awarded solely on bases having no relationship to athletics ability.
15.2.6.3 Financial Aid From an Established and Continuing Program. A student-athlete may receive financial aid through an established and continuing program to aid students, provided: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, Revised: 4/23/14)
(a) The recipient’s choice of institutions is not restricted by the donor of the aid;
(b) There is no direct connection between the donor and the student-athlete’s institution; and
(c) The financial aid is not provided by an outside sports team or organization that conducts a competitive sports program to an individual who is or has been a member of that team or organization.

 

[GowerND11]

Here is part of what I posted about a week ago in the Master List 2019 thread. You can look through the earlier posts on that thread if you like.

Reps

 

[Irish YJ]

I would be shocked if the parents chose to scoop up the $15,000 a year to open a scholarship for someone else. Absolutely shocked.

I'm sure it's not just the $15,000, either. I'm sure there are other benefits you get that make it easier for someone on a full football scholarship compared to someone who has tuition covered. For instance, don't all football players eat free, literally anywhere they want on campus? I'd imagine Lilly isn't picking that up.

meals are covered in the 15k room and board (for any student)

But since he was recruited, doesn't he count towards the number anyway? I've always thought that's how the rule read, so teams can't just say, "oh this kid can afford our tuition, he's a walk-on now."

as long as the scholarship is academic (no sports tie in) it's fine.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Who said the parents would be picking up the tab?

Where that bag man at?

 

[koonja]

meals are covered in the 15k room and board (for any student)



as long as the scholarship is academic (no sports tie in) it's fine.

So any student can go to Chik Fil A 10x a day, every day, and the school doesn't charge them a single extra dollar?

Because that's how it works for the scholarship athletes I believe.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Hypothetically, if Kiser were to give up football due to fear of long-term injuries or something, ND still lets him attend, right?

 

[GowerND11]

So any student can go to Chik Fil A 10x a day, every day, and the school doesn't charge them a single extra dollar?

Because that's how it works for the scholarship athletes I believe.

I know ND has a training table now, but isn't that part of their meal plan? I don't think a meal plan, unless you get the platinum version, would allow something like that...

 

[koonja]

I know ND has a training table now, but isn't that part of their meal plan? I don't think a meal plan, unless you get the platinum version, would allow something like that...

It's not a ND thing, it's a NCAA Thing.

Scholarship athletes, as of 2014, literally eat whenever/wherever for free. This is just one example of IMO, being on scholarship providing much more benefits beyond the obvious ones (room/board/tuition/travel).

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-agrees-unlimited-meals-snacks-di-student-athletes/

Edit - this looks like it might apply to any D1 student athlete (even if they're not on scholarship?). So this might be a bad example.

But point is - scholarship athletes get a number of benefits that we don't see as fans. For instance, my roommate on a D1 golf scholarship got drunk and lost his phone. He filled out a 1 page paper to the NCAA, and they gave him $1,000 to get a new phone. no questions asked.

This is just one example of one of the many things they get that we don't know about for being on scholarship, and things that Kiser would be leaving on the table on top of room and board.

 

[Irish YJ]

https://dining.nd.edu/services/meal-plans/on-campus-undergrads/

On Campus Undergrads
Included at no extra charge with your Notre Dame housing fee is a choice between two meal plans — either the default Gold Plan or the requested Blue Plan. All meal plans are semester based. (For incoming on-campus freshmen and on-campus transfer students who are attending orientation, a Meal Access Card will be provided through orientation for appropriate dining hall access prior to you receiving your ID card in August.) Meals refresh Saturday morning before breakfast.

The last meal of Fall 2018 is December 14, 2018.
The first meal of Spring 2019 is January 13, 2019.
The last meal of Spring 2019 is May 19, 2019.
All meal plans expire on May 19, 2019.
The Gold Plan provides up to 14 meals per week in the dining halls and $500 in Flex Points per semester. The Blue Plan provides up to 21 meals per week in the dining halls and no Flex Points. Over 99% of resident undergraduates choose to remain on the default Gold Plan. There is no difference in cost between the Blue Plan and the Gold Plan.

The Green Plan offers up to 14 meals a week and both Flex Points and Domer Dollars. Unlike the Blue and Gold Plans, there is an additional charge to upgrade to this plan.

The on-campus meal plans (Gold, Blue and Green) permit multple entries per meal period, a single meal tap in SDH Grab and Go per visit, and are intended for personal use only. Each resident is permitted up to five (5) guest meals per semester which must be redeemed at the cash register. These meals are complimentary and may not be used for special meals such as football weekends, Thanksgiving, and Easter. Residents may purchase meals at a 15% discount using FLEX or Domer Dollars at any time and/or when the five complimentary meals have been utilized.



If you are living off campus, have purchased an off campus meal plan, and are then moved on campus, please send an email to idcard@nd.edu to request a meal plan refund. Be sure to include your ndID number.

The Gold Plan
This flexible plan (on which all students are placed at the beginning of each semester) provides both Flex Points ($500 in Flex Points are placed on your ID card at the beginning of each semester) and a weekly allotment of up to 14 board meals in our all-you-care-to-eat dining halls (North or South). Multiple meal period swipes are permitted for personal use. Flex Points are accepted in select on-campus retail food service establishments, excluding Legends and Sorin's. Unused Flex Points expire at the end of each semester.

The Blue Plan
This plan offers you a weekly allotment of up to 21 meals a week in our all-you-care-to-eat dining halls (North or South). The Blue Plan offers the budget-conscious student an exceptional value. Multiple meal period swipes are permitted for personal use.

To request the Blue Plan (instead of remaining on the defaulted Gold Plan), you must submit an email from your Notre Dame email account within the first two weeks of each semester to idcard@nd.edu with “Change to Blue Plan” in the subject line, with your complete name and ndID ‘90’ number in the text, and be sure NOT to spend any Flex Points.

The Green Plan
The Green Plan is a flexible meal plan that provides both Flex Points and Domer Dollars ($360.00 in Flex Points and $360.00 in Domer Dollars placed on your ID card at the beginning of each semester), and a weekly allotment of up to 14 board meals in our all-you-care-to-eat dining halls (North or South). Multiple meal period swipes are permitted for personal use. Unused Flex Points expire at the end of each semester. Domer Dollars are accepted at all on-campus retail food establishments, in campus laundry and vending machines, as well as at select off-campus locations. Domer Dollars do not expire and will remain on your campus ID card until you separate from the University. Please see more about Flex Points and Domer Dollars below.

To request the Green Plan (instead of remaining on the defaulted Gold Plan), you must submit an email from your Notre Dame email account within the first two weeks of each semester to idcard@nd.edu with “Change to Green Plan” in the subject line, along with your name and ndID ‘90’ number in the text. The cost to upgrade to the Green Plan is $269.00 per semester, which will be charged to your student account.

Student Guest Meals
This program was developed at the request of Student Government and is offered ONLY to on-campus residents.

BENEFITS
5 meals are programmed onto your ID card at the beginning of each semester for guest use. Please visit the monitor's station in either dining hall to use one of your guest meals.

RESTRICTIONS
Student Guest Meals are available for those students on Resident Undergraduate Student Meal Plans during the academic year only. These meals are not available for use during football weekends (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of football weekends), during Dining Hall special meals (e.g., Thanksgiving, Easter), or during Senior Week and Commencement weekend.

How are Domer Dollars different from Flex Points?
Flex Points are an extension of the on-campus dining board plan and are accepted only in select on-campus retail food service establishments (excluding Legends and Sorin's). Flex Points are placed on the ID card at the beginning of each semester and any remaining balance expires at the end of each semester. Flex Points purchased during the summer (called Summer Flex Points) are for use only in select on-campus retail food service locations and only during a specified summer date range. Flex Points may not be purchased by credit card.

Domer Dollars are much more versatile than Flex Points, with broader acceptance in more locations, both on and off campus. Additionally, Domer Dollars never expire as Flex Points do each semester. Your Domer Dollar balance will carry over from year to year until the time you separate from the University. As long as your remaining balance is above $25 you will receive a refund of unused Domer Dollars upon separation through an automated process. You may use Domer Dollars to make purchases at many select off-campus merchants in addition to the on-campus businesses, including both food and non-food related entities. (Certain items that are deemed not in accordance with a healthy community and Church teaching may not be purchased with Domer Dollars). Domer Dollars may be purchased by credit card. Domer Dollars make your ID card the one card you need for your campus life!

 

[koonja]

https://dining.nd.edu/services/meal-plans/on-campus-undergrads/

This was what they had, but in 2014 the NCAA rule trumped it all. It's eat wherever, whenever, as often as you want, and in between semesters. Doesn't have to be at a designated dining hall, doesn't have to be capped at 14 a week, etc.

It's a big difference in benefit.

 

[Irish YJ]

This was what they had, but in 2014 the NCAA rule trumped it all. It's eat wherever, whenever, as often as you want, and in between semesters. Doesn't have to be at a designated dining hall, doesn't have to be capped at 14 a week, etc.

It's a big difference in benefit.

What I posted is what general students have now. And what I assume walk ons have. And I'd assume walk ons have access to the training table as part of their normal meal plan.

not sure there is much difference. besides being able to eat at retail places. gold and blue look pretty much to offer multiple entry (which is almost unlimited food) with standard room and board. that plus training table.... not much extra benefit unless you like fast food.

 

[GowerND11]

What I posted is what general students have now. And what I assume walk ons have. And I'd assume walk ons have access to the training table as part of their normal meal plan.

not sure there is much difference. besides being able to eat at retail places. gold and blue look pretty much to offer multiple entry (which is almost unlimited food) with standard room and board. that plus training table.... not much extra benefit unless you like fast food.

Non-scholarship student athletes have the same access as scholarship.

However, I haven't seen anything in a quick internet search, that says student athletes can just eat anywhere they want, for free. Just that they have unlimited access at school sponsored (and, I assume places that have deals with the school just off campus) dining halls, snack counters, etc.

 

[koonja]

This explains the new food rules by NCAA a little better, and anecdotally with Oregon/Wisconsin.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...consin-oregon-ncaa-student-athletes/26405105/

And this is getting off topic, because it sounds like Kiser would be allowed this same benefit because it spells out "D1 athletes on/off scholarship".

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

This was what they had, but in 2014 the NCAA rule trumped it all. It's eat wherever, whenever, as often as you want, and in between semesters. Doesn't have to be at a designated dining hall, doesn't have to be capped at 14 a week, etc.

It's a big difference in benefit.

Pretty sure they don't get to eat for free at campus restaurants. Even after 2014 I'm pretty sure they just had normal flex points for those restaurants just like the rest of the students. I think where the rule change came into effect was them getting food outside of meals. For example the common area for student athletes always had tons of snacks and food. I think before the rule change there were more limits on what athletes could get for free outside of meals.