'18 OR ATH Braden Lenzy (Notre Dame Signee)

[koonja]

Just a little perspective Koon - take it or leave, I don't care.

When you make back to back posts like this it just sets the board up to criticize you. You first come in with a hot take that is drastically different from what ANYBODY else is saying and then you follow it up with a passive aggressive comment about how the rest of the board is following along with the group think mentality.



See - you did basically say that anyone that thinks he is fast only thinks that because he is supposed to elite fast and YOU don't think so...cause Koon.

Then the backpedal comes and magically your post count rises through the stratosphere because of a big discussion. It's amazing really...

no you are just in here crying for a participation trophy because you had a unique thought.

ill agree the film doesnt just wow you with straight sprints to the finish but one thing ive noticed over my time around football is that track guys dont always look as fast as they are. when they have that good sprinters form already it can appear as tho they arent putting full effort or "gliding" when in fact they are really moving. \

as others have said there have been a few wr's in BKs time at ND that didnt jump off the film as having that kind of speed but do.

I asked the question "if you weren't told he had elite speed, would you have watched his film and thought he had elite speed?".

If that sets anyone into a tailspin, they shouldn't be on this site. I humbly said I hope I'm wrong, haven't said "he's definitely not fast" and anyone who disagrees is an idiot, etc. I just said I didn't see elite speed in that film.

I'm posting an opinion the way everyone should post their opinions. Think for yourself, welcome disagreements, and don't reduce yourself to insults just because you disagree.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I actually side with Koon on this one. Kid is fast, but he doesn't look like he has elite speed really. He's shiftier than I would have guessed, but I didn't really find myself saying "oh wow" when he was in the open field. Could be one of those things where he knows he's by far the best athlete on the field and is never going to get caught from behind so he rarely really goes 100%.

Either way, kid looks good and I'd be happy if he signed here. I wasn't blown away by Fuller or Stepherson in high school and those guys run by any CB so we'll see.

Also BK's track record with WRs is good enough I don't really care who he offers, I assume they can play.

I respectfully disagree.

First off, this is only a few games for Lenzy because of the injury. A season long highlight film for, would look a lot different. You have less to work with. Josh Adams does not look rocket fast on most of his carries, but on some you see it. So the more carries he has, the better the highlight film will look.

Second, Anthony Shwartz is, in fact, significantly faster than BL. AS is one of the elite sprinters in the country--faster than Adoree Jackson, closer to a Demps. To say that Adoree Jackson or Will Fuller don't have "elite" speed because Demps is clearly faster, is just too restrictive a definition. As Han Solo might have said, "He's fast enough for you, Old Man."

Third, after watching the film for Will Fuller, or Procise, or Stepherson, etc., I stopped thinking speed always shows up on film like I might think. A lot of times the kid, his QB, and their coach don't really know how to utilize raw speed other than throwing big bombs, and the DC for the other team is obviously going to give a ton of cushion and safety help when a known P5 speedster is coming to play. So...

Fourth, one of the biggest things I look for is whether the kid looks under control or even effortless doing tough stuff (running routes, hitting a hole, backpedaling, recovering...), while the other kids are struggling to keep up (even if they catch him). BL looks the part to me!

Where on the Stepherson to Fuller spectrum he lands is anyone's guess since it will depend on how he takes to a weight program..

 

[koonja]

Just a little perspective Koon - take it or leave, I don't care.

When you make back to back posts like this it just sets the board up to criticize you. You first come in with a hot take that is drastically different from what ANYBODY else is saying and then you follow it up with a passive aggressive comment about how the rest of the board is following along with the group think mentality.



See - you did basically say that anyone that thinks he is fast only thinks that because he is supposed to elite fast and YOU don't think so...cause Koon.

Then the backpedal comes and magically your post count rises through the stratosphere because of a big discussion. It's amazing really...

I'm not following... I asked if they would have thought that if they hadn't gone in assuming he was a burner.

This should never happen, so let's end it. I didn't watch the film and think "elite speed". And I hope you guys are right and I'm wrong. Clearly the staff and the services love him, so he probably does have the extra gear on the field.

 

[NDdomer2]

I asked the question "if you weren't told he had elite speed, would you have watched his film and thought he had elite speed?".

If that sets anyone into a tailspin, they shouldn't be on this site. I humbly said I hope I'm wrong, haven't said "he's definitely not fast" and anyone who disagrees is an idiot, etc. I just said I didn't see elite speed in that film.

I'm posting an opinion the way everyone should post their opinions. Think for yourself, welcome disagreements, and don't reduce yourself to insults just because you disagree.

i dont recall any insults on my end. and i absolutely posted my opinion, which in some parts agrees with your assessment that it doesnt jump out the film. but it is in the film if you look close enough. i dont think every team this kid plays is in habit of taking bad angles all game. hes making them take bad angles. no way every kid he plays is so slow that he can jog by them either. so something is happening and its Lenzy running by them.

How does that translate to the college game, well all have to wait and see. hopefully in an ND uniform.

 

[Luckylucci]

Dom, that’s a good point. Lenzy doesn’t need to be AS fast to be a really productive speed WR. Fuller wasn’t/isn’t Anthony S. fast.

 

[NDohio]

I'm not following... I asked if they would have thought that if they hadn't gone in assuming he was a burner.

This should never happen, so let's end it. I didn't watch the film and think "elite speed". And I hope you guys are right and I'm wrong. Clearly the staff and the services love him, so he probably does have the extra gear on the field.

It is a passive aggressive question. And whether you realize it or not it's what you do that starts these circular conversations. I try and stay out of it, but I am in a mood today so...

I wonder how many of you would see that "elite speed" if you weren't told "elite speed" before watching.

You might as well have said - "You group thinkers only think he is fast because you are told he is fast."

 

[koonja]

It is a passive aggressive question. And whether you realize it or not it's what you do that starts these circular conversations. I try and stay out of it, but I am in a mood today so...



You might as well have said - "You group thinkers only think he is fast because you are told he is fast."

I truly wasn't trying to be passive aggressive and even in hindsight, I'm not sure how you think it came across this way. I was trying to phrase it as "think of it this way". My apologies if it seemed passive aggressive.

 

[NDty9]

I always HATE when Koon derails a thread with what seems to be purposely contrarian opinion, preventing me from getting any REAL INFO about a recruit..... however, I have made the mistake of contributing to it this time. Apologies for that!

So anyways....

Refresh my memory, Does Braden have a commit date? We liking the way this is trending? Purposely changing the subject?

 

[koonja]

I always HATE when Koon derails a thread with what seems to be purposely contrarian opinion, preventing me from getting any REAL INFO about a recruit..... however, I have made the mistake of contributing to it this time. Apologies for that!

So anyways....

Refresh my memory, Does Braden have a commit date? We liking the way this is trending? Purposely changing the subject?

December 22nd and ND is the favorite. Will sign that day.

 

[NDty9]

December 22nd and ND is the favorite. Will sign that day.

Awesome, Thank ya sir! Hope Oregon or Chip and his Bruins don't snag him late!

 

[PANDFAN]

Awesome, Thank ya sir! Hope Oregon or Chip and his Bruins don't snag him late!

ucla just scooped up cota so not likely

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I got to admit mad props to the staff looks like Brenzy will be ours, no news of him visiting Oregon again and he just came out this past weekend for a visit. Hopefully the class will finish like this.

Brenzy, Gordon, NPF would be nice to land St. Brown but I think the staff still has some work there yet.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Me: "What's going on in this thread?"

Also me: *sees Kuehnja's name, scrolls to bottom*

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[NDty9]

ucla just scooped up cota so not likely

True true... I thought i remembered hearing they may go somewhere together, but that could deff just be completely wrong on my part

 

[IrishLax]

Everyone knows I'm against the idea of recruiting Lenzy for reasons unrelated to his football abilities. So with that being said, here is my objective as possible take on his film...

He seems to play with really good balance and ball skills, especially as a DB. If he was bigger, I think he could make an ELITE free safety. It's weird because he is breaking tackles left and right on offense and a willing tackler on defense but still doesn't really come off as being to 'lay the lumber' like an NFL safety but he might be a good CB. What worries me about him as a CB is that I don't think I see a lot of short-area or lateral explosion. When carrying the ball out of the backfield in his film, he doesn't show "suddenness"... Google up De'Anthony Thomas high school highlights for the extreme of having "suddenness" and lateral quickness/agility. On Lenzy's cuts with the ball in his hands, he often comes to a full stop and then re-accelerates. That's troubling. But he's not supposed to be a RB! So as a WR...

Straight line runners often don't make great WRs because they don't run routes well. They don't come out of their breaks hard, they can't make the subtle moves or quick cuts required to turn a DB inside out. What's troubling is that in all his highlights there are only a couple plays that show him running a route where you can even try to evaluate his ability to cut or stop on a dime or set up a DB. In those few plays, he does a really good job, but I don't know if that's indicative of how he plays every snap or if they're "highlights" for a reason. Again, impressive ball skills. Uses his hands well, makes some tough ones. When talking about speed, he quite obviously runs away from everyone after the first 10 yards down field. He's not a Tavon Austin type where he's going to dice people up around the middle of the field, and on the presented film he doesn't display anything to make you think he's a "possession" WR that can eat between the hashes. His upside at WR is strictly playing outside and developing into someone who runs good vertical routes.

I'd probably rate him as a low 4-star prospect. I think he has positional flexibility and enough innate athletic ability to valuable to most every team. My concerns would be his frame and short-area quickness. At best, I think he is a Kevin Stepherson type and mid-to-late round NFL player. At worst, I think he's Josh Atkinson.

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I will be committing & signing on December 22nd at 3 PM Pacific Time! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoDucks?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoDucks</a> 🦆 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/4sUP?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#4sUP</a> 🐻<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoIrish?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoIrish</a> ☘️</p>— Braden Lenzy (@blspeedy21) <a href="https://twitter.com/blspeedy21/status/941451160992473088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So are we going to have the various coaches in their war rooms on split screen and then his text of his commitment papers are going to PING! on the chosen head coaches phone? If MSU was in the choice, at least we could hear The Rock singing the song from Moana on Dantonio's phone.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Everyone knows I'm against the idea of recruiting Lenzy for reasons unrelated to his football abilities. So with that being said, here is my objective as possible take on his film...

He seems to play with really good balance and ball skills, especially as a DB. If he was bigger, I think he could make an ELITE free safety. It's weird because he is breaking tackles left and right on offense and a willing tackler on defense but still doesn't really come off as being to 'lay the lumber' like an NFL safety but he might be a good CB. What worries me about him as a CB is that I don't think I see a lot of short-area or lateral explosion. When carrying the ball out of the backfield in his film, he doesn't show "suddenness"... Google up De'Anthony Thomas high school highlights for the extreme of having "suddenness" and lateral quickness/agility. On Lenzy's cuts with the ball in his hands, he often comes to a full stop and then re-accelerates. That's troubling. But he's not supposed to be a RB! So as a WR...

Straight line runners often don't make great WRs because they don't run routes well. They don't come out of their breaks hard, they can't make the subtle moves or quick cuts required to turn a DB inside out. What's troubling is that in all his highlights there are only a couple plays that show him running a route where you can even try to evaluate his ability to cut or stop on a dime or set up a DB. In those few plays, he does a really good job, but I don't know if that's indicative of how he plays every snap or if they're "highlights" for a reason. Again, impressive ball skills. Uses his hands well, makes some tough ones. When talking about speed, he quite obviously runs away from everyone after the first 10 yards down field. He's not a Tavon Austin type where he's going to dice people up around the middle of the field, and on the presented film he doesn't display anything to make you think he's a "possession" WR that can eat between the hashes. His upside at WR is strictly playing outside and developing into someone who runs good vertical routes.

I'd probably rate him as a low 4-star prospect. I think he has positional flexibility and enough innate athletic ability to valuable to most every team. My concerns would be his frame and short-area quickness. At best, I think he is a Kevin Stepherson type and mid-to-late round NFL player. At worst, I think he's Josh Atkinson.

1) This is a huge range
2) Did you mean George? Or, did you really, actually mean, Josh?

 

[snoopdog]

Anybody else notice how big Lenzy looks compared to the competition in his film.

the guy is listed at 6' 160lbs

 

[IrishLax]

1) This is a huge range
2) Did you mean George? Or, did you really, actually mean, Josh?

I mean Josh. I think his "floor" is not-really-MAC-level, but the ceiling to be a very quality player is certainly there too.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Everyone knows I'm against the idea of recruiting Lenzy for reasons unrelated to his football abilities. So with that being said, here is my objective as possible take on his film...

He seems to play with really good balance and ball skills, especially as a DB. If he was bigger, I think he could make an ELITE free safety. It's weird because he is breaking tackles left and right on offense and a willing tackler on defense but still doesn't really come off as being to 'lay the lumber' like an NFL safety but he might be a good CB. What worries me about him as a CB is that I don't think I see a lot of short-area or lateral explosion. When carrying the ball out of the backfield in his film, he doesn't show "suddenness"... Google up De'Anthony Thomas high school highlights for the extreme of having "suddenness" and lateral quickness/agility. On Lenzy's cuts with the ball in his hands, he often comes to a full stop and then re-accelerates. That's troubling. But he's not supposed to be a RB! So as a WR...

Straight line runners often don't make great WRs because they don't run routes well. They don't come out of their breaks hard, they can't make the subtle moves or quick cuts required to turn a DB inside out. What's troubling is that in all his highlights there are only a couple plays that show him running a route where you can even try to evaluate his ability to cut or stop on a dime or set up a DB. In those few plays, he does a really good job, but I don't know if that's indicative of how he plays every snap or if they're "highlights" for a reason. Again, impressive ball skills. Uses his hands well, makes some tough ones. When talking about speed, he quite obviously runs away from everyone after the first 10 yards down field. He's not a Tavon Austin type where he's going to dice people up around the middle of the field, and on the presented film he doesn't display anything to make you think he's a "possession" WR that can eat between the hashes. His upside at WR is strictly playing outside and developing into someone who runs good vertical routes.

I'd probably rate him as a low 4-star prospect. I think he has positional flexibility and enough innate athletic ability to valuable to most every team. My concerns would be his frame and short-area quickness. At best, I think he is a Kevin Stepherson type and mid-to-late round NFL player. At worst, I think he's Josh Atkinson.

Usually I agree with your posts, but I don't understand this one. I'm going with the staff, Chip Kelly, and Oregon here (I think USC too...).

He shows really quick feet, especially for a guy moving that fast. Its hard to cut when you are covering that much ground, but he is able to get to the open grass. He doesn't have the cutting ability of a butt-on-the-ground running back weaving through the trash, but that's not what he's being asked to do.

He also shows really good ability to adjust as a CB. He can change direction and accelerate quickly.

And how can you compare him to an Attkinson when BL can catch? Who knows what either Attkinson could have been like as a WR. They were physical specimens (especially George), but mediocre football players.

The MAC would be pretty good if guys like BL were their throw-aways!

 

[BobbyMac]

Sampson CB'd him to ND today. SIAP

 

[IrishLax]

Usually I agree with your posts, but I don't understand this one. I'm going with the staff, Chip Kelly, and Oregon here (I think USC too...).

He shows really quick feet, especially for a guy moving that fast. Its hard to cut when you are covering that much ground, but he is able to get to the open grass. He doesn't have the cutting ability of a butt-on-the-ground running back weaving through the trash, but that's not what he's being asked to do.

He also shows really good ability to adjust as a CB. He can change direction and accelerate quickly.

And how can you compare him to an Attkinson when BL can catch? Who knows what either Attkinson could have been like as a WR. They were physical specimens (especially George), but mediocre football players.

The MAC would be pretty good if guys like BL were their throw-aways!

So what's your position that he's an elite, can't miss prospect?

 

[Domina Nostra]

So what's your position that he's an elite, can't miss prospect?

Nobody is. But I think his tape justifies his ranking.

 

[Cackalacky]

Just a little perspective Koon - take it or leave, I don't care.

When you make back to back posts like this it just sets the board up to criticize you. You first come in with a hot take that is drastically different from what ANYBODY else is saying and then you follow it up with a passive aggressive comment about how the rest of the board is following along with the group think mentality.



See - you did basically say that anyone that thinks he is fast only thinks that because he is supposed to elite fast and YOU don't think so...cause Koon.

Then the backpedal comes and magically your post count rises through the stratosphere because of a big discussion. It's amazing really...

His Post to rep ratio is in the shitter though. He doesnt help it when he does this.

 

[snoopdog]

Nobody is. But I think his tape justifies his ranking.

Tough to say

3 minutes of great tape over so/so competition followed by 3 minutes of not so great tape.

Hi team played against Clackamas in State semis and got absolutely jobbed 52-7. He didn't make a huge difference on either side of the ball.

It's JMO but Lenzy is a reach prospect despite the lofty rating, who may end up doing great or being disillusioned because he was promised a spot in the two deep and may find himself two deep on the scout team.

 

[IrishLax]

Nobody is. But I think his tape justifies his ranking.

Well I said low 4 so 90-92 rating... he's a 91.85 right now in composite.

Let me phrase my question better... I'm not sure where we disagree, except on the qualitative stuff. I said he does not appear to be the most fluid athlete, which is a common criticism of guys with "track speed." You think he is. But we both think his rating is accurate?

I guess the only difference is that I think he has some hypothetical flaws/red flags that give him a really low floor. You don't think he has the same basement.

 

[IrishLax]

Tough to say

3 minutes of great tape over so/so competition followed by 3 minutes of not so great tape.

Hi team played against Clackamas in State semis and got absolutely jobbed 52-7. He didn't make a huge difference on either side of the ball.

It's JMO but Lenzy is a reach prospect despite the lofty rating, who may end up doing great or being disillusioned because he was promised a spot in the two deep and may find himself two deep on the scout team.

Yeah this is basically where I'm at. I could Lenzy being a very good player... I also see a lot of paths to Bust-ville, USA. I think he deserves a low 4 ranking based on his upside. But I've definitely got concerns.

 

[Irish#1]

I rarely watch many highlight clips, but after this interesting dialogue I decided to. He has will Fuller written all over him. He doesn't look explosive, because he is extremely smooth in his start and gait. He's not making sharp cuts out of his break, but we heard that criticism of Fuller as well. His speed impresses me. If it's not elite, it's only a nano second off. No one really knows how much more he can increase his speed, but in a good S&C program he'll make some improvements which is a positive.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Our buddy Justin Hopkins (douche) with his prediction.

https://scoopduck.com/s/1361/prediction-lenzy/2

Lenzy will make his choice next Friday, a week from today. As of today I'm hearing nothing positive for Oregon. It would appear Lenzy plans on re-committing to Notre Dame, where he 'flipped' to Oregon from in the first place.

 

[BobbyMac]

boom.